spartaxoxo wrote: »

The new companions are ONLY available in the cash shop.

DLCs are also only available from the cash shop. You could get the Chapter DLCs in a bundle if you buy the edition of the game with all of the previous Chapters, but those don't include smaller DLCs such as the Markarth DLC, which has exclusive arena weapons. For existing players, the only way to use Mythic items is to purchase the Greymoor DLC from the cash shop.

Yes, it's different from getting instant gratification because you actually have to grind the Antiquities skill lines to be able to unearth Mythic items, but Companions also have their own grind. You don't instantly get a Level 20 Companion when you buy them from the Crown Store.

The reason that P2W has not included DLC for many years is because of the focus of how developers create things.

These games have mostly gone the way of the dinosaur now, due to players insisting on DLC models for power and cosmetics in shops.

But, back in the day it used to be common for games to put power in the cash shop. They mostly put anything actually good in the cash shop.

The result was extremely expensive and grindy games that were low on new content both in terms of quantity and quality.

For example, one P2W game I played, made the drop rate for the material of a piece of armor so low, that it took on average about 1.5 years to get it if one were to grind about 3 hours a day, every day. And then you had to improve it, which took another year, on average, to grind.

Or you could buy it in the cash shop for the low, low price of $1000 dollars. No, that's not a typo. $1000 dollars for the base gear. $500 bucks more to improve it.

Updates did happen occasionally, but they were sparse with nonsensical stories. And wouldn't you know it, the actually good features were available in the store. And ofc new characters meant you needed new gear.

Players protested against these kinds of games, pushing for one dlc purchase to include everything. People were okay with cash shop items, as long as those items were purely cosmetic. Players would warn others of P2W games and go out of their way to support games that were not.

Eventually, we won that. And now, I guess it's been long enough that many players no longer remember the difference between it being bundled together as a dlc and put in as an individual item.

I'm glad for that. But trust me as someone who has played the logical conclusion of that train of logic, it is not the same.

When it's part of DLC, developers have to focus on making significant gameplay improvements. Because consumers have expectations that dlc will include those. They don't have such expectations for singular items in the cash store, and game makers develop accordingly.

ZOS has in the past indicated they understood this difference, and actually evoked this when they decided that the armory would not be able to used in leaderboard content.

So, it is disappointing to see it continue. As far the phrase P2W, you're right that it is about content that is needed to do be more competitive. That's why companions aren't P2W, as I have said before. But, they are direct power. They allow single players to play more efficiently than without them. In some cases, they even enable victory in fights where the user would not succeed otherwise.

And unlike the classes, these companions will not be available any other way. The not reasonably available another way thing is a critical part of the equation.

After further reading I'm getting your points better but to me it's still akin to dungeon dlc's - you do quest and along the way collect your power-ups, like any other dlc. P2W also do not associate with things like companions as those aren't making harder content easier, those are relevant in basic leveling zones and normal difficulty activities which are already aren't demanding skill nor gear-wise. Meanwhile a monster set, mythic or a new dungeon set might be the only choice for score pushing or trifecta activities where balance and p2w actually matters.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

. You are not at any kind of competitive disadvantage whatsoever if you don't have ESO+ and don't buy them.

Yes, which is why I said this in my opening post and said it wasn't P2W.

Regardless, it is power in the cash shop. That is unprecedented.

They have been cutting content more and more, have pulled a feature that was part of the chapter out of it, and now they have power in the cash shop. It's too small to call P2W but it's still a new development nonetheless.

Games don't always transform to over monetized and P2W over night. They nickel and dime their way there.

Does this game seem to be heading the right direction to you? Because that's the point of this post, not debating whether or not companions are P2W. I already said they were not in the OP.

i wouldnt say this is at all unprecedented

i would say the first thing added to the crown store with an actual viable difference from cosmetics was the inventory expanding pets, the 3 pets is equal to +15 more bag slots per character

the next most "p2w" items they put in the crown store would be the assistants: armory, merchant, decon, banker

those things which are extremely nice convenience items dont necessarily equate to combat advantages though

other "pay for" items such as mythics (which come from multiple chapters, and require access to western skyrim to use) is also pretty pay 2 win, but those items i count as more chapter bonuses and not separately acquired from the crown store, so while this does add a combat advantage, i dont really see this as p2w as its associated with the expansion content, you cant buy "antiquities" fully completed from the crown store for example

companions would probably be the first true item with any combat advantage, but their power level is so low i wouldnt call it a combat advantage, and you cant use them in most "serious" contents (pvp, full dungeon or trial groups, and and they are darn near useless in vet dungeons, or any trial (normal or vet))