TechMaybeHic wrote: »

They put it in scribing, but that's also ranged.

I'll never understand why generic 41m range Wield Soul gets to be instant, reliable, and inflict Major Breach, while the melee weapon Knife and Smash are both horrendously slow, clumsy, unreliable, no Major Breach or other useful effects. Start adding cast times to ranged skills instead. You know, CASTers. Melee fighters are supposed to be fast and dextrous.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

They put it in scribing, but that's also ranged.

I'll never understand why generic 41m range Wield Soul gets to be instant, reliable, and inflict Major Breach, while the melee weapon Knife and Smash are both horrendously slow, clumsy, unreliable, no Major Breach or other useful effects. Start adding cast times to ranged skills instead. You know, CASTers. Melee fighters are supposed to be fast and dextrous.

I've advocated for cast times for awhile. Especially on heals. Templar used to be counterable back at launch cause their main efficient group heal was casted and therefore interrruptable. But there is also a power fantasy of charging up a spell. I actually love elemental explosion for that reason of charging up a nuke.

Plus, it could fit into ZoS effort to raise the floor cause you could balance casted range spells in a way that doesn't require weaving for pve like they did with the channels of Arcanist.

I know people won't like it but the speed cap should be lowered even further. While gap closers should be essential for melee the speed available causes desync issues that only affects melee. You can Bob and weave as range with no interrupt in your skills firing. Melee on the other hand can get their whole rotation messed up even if you match their speed but a little bit of server desync happens. Being able to flash in and out of the 8m melee range should be harder than it is. At least require a global cast of major expedition.

Here's my opinion on this, if it helps.

Back in the day, I was quite the ganker/scoundrel. Indeed, I've been known to act the fool on many an occasion.

The problem here is you have a couple things going on. One, people flocking to this setup because its meta but also because it works. Two, other sets out there can't compete with the damage this thing is dealing out and three, this meta damage setup is friendly to bow builds, which themselves have been nerfed heavily in the past, including heavily nerfing things like Snipe.

It's too bad the word is out, and everyone is using this now, which was something that among many things not too many realized for at least a while. But a reason why they're doing this, is because it works and there is no real alternative, not for bow users, to deal this kind of damage.

You can cry for nerfs all you like, you may get them. But the larger issue is bow damage outside of this meta, quite frankly it sucks. A lack of balance is the real issue, being meta doesn't correct this problem but everyone using this for its own sake is a problem. Just like how everyone quits the server as soon as a fight starts in IC.

The game has significant balance issues and too many people trying to skirt the line for its own sake. Like I've always encouraged people to just be yourself. But due to lack of confidence and balance issues the meta is always going to win until the power curves are leveled out in a realistic manner.

StaticWave wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

1 Snipe cast from stealth crits for 8k, which procs Tarnish for another 3-4k. 11-12k HP gone instantly with 1 skill. Not to mention Snipe having a cast time and can be followed up with another skill afterwards.

And they wonder why everyone is running around Cyrodiil with 40k+ HP.

Tbh it's really cloak that enables this kind of playstyle. You try this on any other class and ull be toast quick fast.

You can definitely do this on every class. Here's Pelican ganking on stamsorc by stacking Anthelmir + Tarnish:

https://youtu.be/oiVaM-JnzWU?si=LjJCLMLeblavzP2c

https://youtu.be/5DxNyXIybJs?si=5nNc5w1TTh2cWXmw

Yep, that build is not ok, don't even need snipe...

Some quick testing and yeah... that build makes ward look balanced lmao

Proc stacking (well all stacking) really needs addressing in this game... It's gotten to absurd levels..

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Nobody cloaked can use a bow? Too obvious? Too much?

The problem is stacked proc sets, which also work on staves, not specifically bows or stealth.

Ah the Tri-fecta....anthelmirs construct, tarnished, vicious death...clearing keep walls during mym. good times.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

They put it in scribing, but that's also ranged.

I'll never understand why generic 41m range Wield Soul gets to be instant, reliable, and inflict Major Breach, while the melee weapon Knife and Smash are both horrendously slow, clumsy, unreliable, no Major Breach or other useful effects. Start adding cast times to ranged skills instead. You know, CASTers. Melee fighters are supposed to be fast and dextrous.

So next wield soul gets frost damage.....winterborn/tarnished but with a bow for more crit and on demand major expedition. Hmmm.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

1 Snipe cast from stealth crits for 8k, which procs Tarnish for another 3-4k. 11-12k HP gone instantly with 1 skill. Not to mention Snipe having a cast time and can be followed up with another skill afterwards.

And they wonder why everyone is running around Cyrodiil with 40k+ HP.

Tbh it's really cloak that enables this kind of playstyle. You try this on any other class and ull be toast quick fast.

You can definitely do this on every class. Here's Pelican ganking on stamsorc by stacking Anthelmir + Tarnish:

https://youtu.be/oiVaM-JnzWU?si=LjJCLMLeblavzP2c

https://youtu.be/5DxNyXIybJs?si=5nNc5w1TTh2cWXmw

Yep, that build is not ok, don't even need snipe...

Some quick testing and yeah... that build makes ward look balanced lmao

Proc stacking (well all stacking) really needs addressing in this game... It's gotten to absurd levels..

That is basically my build next week....tarnished, winterborn, anthelmir NB....bow/2H, with bar laid out so I only barswap every 40s for forward momentum - all the other buffs are passive from slotting/using skills. That is a two button build: merciless/wield soul. I have 60ish % crit rate, 120ish crit damage, around 7K spell damage, 34K health, 55% increased movement speed all the time, with enough flex spots to put flare on both bars for major protection.

Anthelmir is a flex set. It is not needed. So could be dropped for mythics or utility monster sets.

You can make it work on other classes, but you can't match those stats or the damage from merciless as a finisher.

Proccsets as a whole is ruining pvp, just one example of a disgusting meta with relequen, draugrkin and jeralls. How do you counter that, yep, you have to use it yourself. :puke:

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Thanks to threads like this, ZOS did very successfully rebalance Tarnished. The set still has a lot of power but as a ranged proc, it's appropriately easy to counter now, thanks to the 1.3sec delay and clear red circle telegraph.

The only proc that still sticks out to me is Rushing Agony, an effect drastically out of place in this combat system, that also does burst damage, has little to no telegraph, and is bugged to pull beyond its radius and through terrain. It only really does one thing in the meta, which is enable sweaty organized groups to automate their strat. The continued presence of this proc in the meta (despite player outcry) is a major factor in the past year's rapid decline in Cyro population.

I mean, root cause is vicious death, and of course organized PvP guilds and buy-in cost for good gear/build.

If you get a buncha noobs circling a small tower and tight-nit, works just as well (speaking as a noob that got blasted twice by VD while 2 players nonchalantly were running around in a keep against 10+ other players).

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Thanks to threads like this, ZOS did very successfully rebalance Tarnished. The set still has a lot of power but as a ranged proc, it's appropriately easy to counter now, thanks to the 1.3sec delay and clear red circle telegraph.

couldn't counter. I got by pushed to the other side of a hall and inst killed while wearing 45k resist armor, although it only worked once. For the rest of the game the attacker barely killed anyone while I ate his attacks without even blocking. Maybe it was just bad luck or too difficult to set up?



EDIT: maybe it only worked because the 8 meters knock-back from Magnus shot was cut short by the wall? otherwise I'd be right outside of Tarnished range.