Tarnished Nightmare and ranged burst proc stacking need to go

TechMaybeHic · August 11

Another thing that bothers me is major breach is sourced from non clas skills skills that are ranges, save for 1h shield but that is ironically not an offensive weapon. They put it in scribing, but that's also ranged. Should be on a melee AOE to make it more powerful to even start to feel worth the risk. Warden has it on shalks but it obviously also comes with a lot of damage and is limited to class

xylena_lazarow · August 11

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

They put it in scribing, but that's also ranged.

I'll never understand why generic 41m range Wield Soul gets to be instant, reliable, and inflict Major Breach, while the melee weapon Knife and Smash are both horrendously slow, clumsy, unreliable, no Major Breach or other useful effects. Start adding cast times to ranged skills instead. You know, CASTers. Melee fighters are supposed to be fast and dextrous.

Durham · August 11

This thing procs on everything! All you hear in PVP is glass breaking everywhere I have had to put my game on mute because of this set!

NuarBlack · August 12

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

They put it in scribing, but that's also ranged.

I'll never understand why generic 41m range Wield Soul gets to be instant, reliable, and inflict Major Breach, while the melee weapon Knife and Smash are both horrendously slow, clumsy, unreliable, no Major Breach or other useful effects. Start adding cast times to ranged skills instead. You know, CASTers. Melee fighters are supposed to be fast and dextrous.

I've advocated for cast times for awhile. Especially on heals. Templar used to be counterable back at launch cause their main efficient group heal was casted and therefore interrruptable. But there is also a power fantasy of charging up a spell. I actually love elemental explosion for that reason of charging up a nuke.

Plus, it could fit into ZoS effort to raise the floor cause you could balance casted range spells in a way that doesn't require weaving for pve like they did with the channels of Arcanist.

I know people won't like it but the speed cap should be lowered even further. While gap closers should be essential for melee the speed available causes desync issues that only affects melee. You can Bob and weave as range with no interrupt in your skills firing. Melee on the other hand can get their whole rotation messed up even if you match their speed but a little bit of server desync happens. Being able to flash in and out of the 8m melee range should be harder than it is. At least require a global cast of major expedition.

FoJul · August 12

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

They put it in scribing, but that's also ranged.

I'll never understand why generic 41m range Wield Soul gets to be instant, reliable, and inflict Major Breach, while the melee weapon Knife and Smash are both horrendously slow, clumsy, unreliable, no Major Breach or other useful effects. Start adding cast times to ranged skills instead. You know, CASTers. Melee fighters are supposed to be fast and dextrous.

Yeah, they nuked swallow soul, Rangeblade hasn't been used since...No thanks!

Vulkunne · August 12

Here's my opinion on this, if it helps.

Back in the day, I was quite the ganker/scoundrel. Indeed, I've been known to act the fool on many an occasion.

The problem here is you have a couple things going on. One, people flocking to this setup because its meta but also because it works. Two, other sets out there can't compete with the damage this thing is dealing out and three, this meta damage setup is friendly to bow builds, which themselves have been nerfed heavily in the past, including heavily nerfing things like Snipe.

It's too bad the word is out, and everyone is using this now, which was something that among many things not too many realized for at least a while. But a reason why they're doing this, is because it works and there is no real alternative, not for bow users, to deal this kind of damage.

You can cry for nerfs all you like, you may get them. But the larger issue is bow damage outside of this meta, quite frankly it sucks. A lack of balance is the real issue, being meta doesn't correct this problem but everyone using this for its own sake is a problem. Just like how everyone quits the server as soon as a fight starts in IC.

The game has significant balance issues and too many people trying to skirt the line for its own sake. Like I've always encouraged people to just be yourself. But due to lack of confidence and balance issues the meta is always going to win until the power curves are leveled out in a realistic manner.

StaticWave · August 14

Firstmep wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

1 Snipe cast from stealth crits for 8k, which procs Tarnish for another 3-4k. 11-12k HP gone instantly with 1 skill. Not to mention Snipe having a cast time and can be followed up with another skill afterwards.

And they wonder why everyone is running around Cyrodiil with 40k+ HP.

Tbh it's really cloak that enables this kind of playstyle. You try this on any other class and ull be toast quick fast.

You can definitely do this on every class. Here's Pelican ganking on stamsorc by stacking Anthelmir + Tarnish:

https://youtu.be/oiVaM-JnzWU?si=LjJCLMLeblavzP2c

https://youtu.be/5DxNyXIybJs?si=5nNc5w1TTh2cWXmw

Turtle_Bot · August 14

StaticWave wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

1 Snipe cast from stealth crits for 8k, which procs Tarnish for another 3-4k. 11-12k HP gone instantly with 1 skill. Not to mention Snipe having a cast time and can be followed up with another skill afterwards.

And they wonder why everyone is running around Cyrodiil with 40k+ HP.

Tbh it's really cloak that enables this kind of playstyle. You try this on any other class and ull be toast quick fast.

You can definitely do this on every class. Here's Pelican ganking on stamsorc by stacking Anthelmir + Tarnish:
https://youtu.be/oiVaM-JnzWU?si=LjJCLMLeblavzP2c

https://youtu.be/5DxNyXIybJs?si=5nNc5w1TTh2cWXmw

Yep, that build is not ok, don't even need snipe...

Some quick testing and yeah... that build makes ward look balanced lmao

Proc stacking (well all stacking) really needs addressing in this game... It's gotten to absurd levels..

xylena_lazarow · August 14

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

that build makes ward look balanced lmao

Broken-checking-broken is a dead game. Ward is broken, Tarnished is broken, fix both.

StaticWave · August 14

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

1 Snipe cast from stealth crits for 8k, which procs Tarnish for another 3-4k. 11-12k HP gone instantly with 1 skill. Not to mention Snipe having a cast time and can be followed up with another skill afterwards.

And they wonder why everyone is running around Cyrodiil with 40k+ HP.

Tbh it's really cloak that enables this kind of playstyle. You try this on any other class and ull be toast quick fast.

You can definitely do this on every class. Here's Pelican ganking on stamsorc by stacking Anthelmir + Tarnish:
https://youtu.be/oiVaM-JnzWU?si=LjJCLMLeblavzP2c

https://youtu.be/5DxNyXIybJs?si=5nNc5w1TTh2cWXmw

Yep, that build is not ok, don't even need snipe...

Some quick testing and yeah... that build makes ward look balanced lmao

Proc stacking (well all stacking) really needs addressing in this game... It's gotten to absurd levels..

It even has AoE dmg capabilities too lol. At several moments in the clips Pelican killed 2-3 ppl per gank.

Turtle_Bot · August 14

StaticWave wrote: »

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

1 Snipe cast from stealth crits for 8k, which procs Tarnish for another 3-4k. 11-12k HP gone instantly with 1 skill. Not to mention Snipe having a cast time and can be followed up with another skill afterwards.

And they wonder why everyone is running around Cyrodiil with 40k+ HP.

Tbh it's really cloak that enables this kind of playstyle. You try this on any other class and ull be toast quick fast.

You can definitely do this on every class. Here's Pelican ganking on stamsorc by stacking Anthelmir + Tarnish:
https://youtu.be/oiVaM-JnzWU?si=LjJCLMLeblavzP2c

https://youtu.be/5DxNyXIybJs?si=5nNc5w1TTh2cWXmw

Yep, that build is not ok, don't even need snipe...

Some quick testing and yeah... that build makes ward look balanced lmao

Proc stacking (well all stacking) really needs addressing in this game... It's gotten to absurd levels..

It even has AoE dmg capabilities too lol. At several moments in the clips Pelican killed 2-3 ppl per gank.

yep, saw that too

katorga · August 18

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

Pelanora wrote: »

Nobody cloaked can use a bow? Too obvious? Too much?

The problem is stacked proc sets, which also work on staves, not specifically bows or stealth.

Ah the Tri-fecta....anthelmirs construct, tarnished, vicious death...clearing keep walls during mym. good times.

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

TechMaybeHic wrote: »

They put it in scribing, but that's also ranged.

I'll never understand why generic 41m range Wield Soul gets to be instant, reliable, and inflict Major Breach, while the melee weapon Knife and Smash are both horrendously slow, clumsy, unreliable, no Major Breach or other useful effects. Start adding cast times to ranged skills instead. You know, CASTers. Melee fighters are supposed to be fast and dextrous.

So next wield soul gets frost damage.....winterborn/tarnished but with a bow for more crit and on demand major expedition. Hmmm.

Turtle_Bot wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

StaticWave wrote: »

1 Snipe cast from stealth crits for 8k, which procs Tarnish for another 3-4k. 11-12k HP gone instantly with 1 skill. Not to mention Snipe having a cast time and can be followed up with another skill afterwards.

And they wonder why everyone is running around Cyrodiil with 40k+ HP.

Tbh it's really cloak that enables this kind of playstyle. You try this on any other class and ull be toast quick fast.

You can definitely do this on every class. Here's Pelican ganking on stamsorc by stacking Anthelmir + Tarnish:
https://youtu.be/oiVaM-JnzWU?si=LjJCLMLeblavzP2c

https://youtu.be/5DxNyXIybJs?si=5nNc5w1TTh2cWXmw

Yep, that build is not ok, don't even need snipe...

Some quick testing and yeah... that build makes ward look balanced lmao

Proc stacking (well all stacking) really needs addressing in this game... It's gotten to absurd levels..

That is basically my build next week....tarnished, winterborn, anthelmir NB....bow/2H, with bar laid out so I only barswap every 40s for forward momentum - all the other buffs are passive from slotting/using skills. That is a two button build: merciless/wield soul. I have 60ish % crit rate, 120ish crit damage, around 7K spell damage, 34K health, 55% increased movement speed all the time, with enough flex spots to put flare on both bars for major protection.

Anthelmir is a flex set. It is not needed. So could be dropped for mythics or utility monster sets.

You can make it work on other classes, but you can't match those stats or the damage from merciless as a finisher.