I Am Starting To Hate ESO PvP

beravinprb19_ESO · May 2014

Hey people. I'm making this topic because, while I greatly enjoy ESO PvP, I have also started to hate it. ESO PvP has a lot of potential, and I'm sure most of us can see that, but I can't help but feel like its missing a few important features. A few of my mates have quit ESO as a result of their PvP concerns, and these are a few of the issues I hear about the most:

1. Downtime. People feel like Cyrodiil is less about fighting the other alliances, and more about riding around on a horse. A lot of people refer to it as a "running simulator"... Fights do not last very long, and they don't really justify the time it takes to get back in action.

2. Small Scale PvP. Right now, PvP is about who has the biggest zerg. Players like me, who enjoy some of the smaller, more competitive fights, typically end up getting swarmed over by a local mob. There is no relief for those of us who want a "fair fight", so to speak.

3. Objectives. There does not seem to be any real goal to ESO PvP. My experience, thus far, has been take keep, lose keep, retake keep, and so on. I enjoy PvP, have no doubt about that, but I also like having a goal to fight for. There is no "purpose" behind ESO PvP.

4. Population Imbalance. This is starting to drive me away. Half the campaigns are barren waste lands, and the other half are controlled by a single alliance. One alliance should never control everything on the map, but that's almost the standard for some campaigns.

5. Balance Issues. Balance issues are fine, and to be expected. That said, I will not soon forget all this Vampire nonsense. With all due respect, issues as obvious as this one need to be dealt with sooner rather than later. Some of my guildies left because of this fiasco.

6. PvP Currency. Its a very silly idea to have the same currency for character upgrades, forward camps, siege engines, and so on. When end game gear costs 600k a piece (!) you simply can't afford to spend your alliance points on assisting the war effort.

7. Bugs. Bugs are also expected. No matter how you look at it, however, the corpse locking bug should have been squashed weeks ago. Infinite loading screens are also becoming a huge source of frustration. Throw in some combat lag, walls trapping players underground, screen freezes for seconds at a time... Bugs are becoming more of a problem.

8. Guilds. Guilds don't stand out in PvP at all. Claiming a keep does not take any effort, and any nobody guild can do it with no effort. Give us a reason to want a keep, make us have to earn it in some way, and give us a reason to actually defend the blasted thing...

9. Communication. Like with #5, I am sick of the lack of communication. I guess I've been spoilt by LoL, where developers read the forums and contribute their own opinions. It would be nice for you guys to drop in and have a chat with us every now and again.

In the end, I might simply be playing the wrong game, and that's fair enough. That said, ESO PvP has a lot of potential, and I can see that plain as day. I really want the game to do well for itself. I'm concerned because I keep seeing empty Cyrodiil servers, and I've had more than a few people I know quit as a result of PvP concerns. I normally have a lot of patience, more so for a new game, but my friends are leaving, and I can't say I like subscription fees.

LadyChaos · May 2014

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

Editing In Progress

Hey people. I'm making this topic because, while I greatly enjoy ESO PvP, I am also starting to hate it. ESO PvP has a lot of potential, but I can't help but feel like its missing something important. Am I alone in this, or are some of you also concerned? Either way, here are 9 issues I have with PvP in its current state:

1. There is too much downtime between fights. I spend more time riding around on my horse, looking for an enemy, than I do actually fighting those enemies.

2. There is no way for me to enjoy small scale PvP without constantly running the risk of having a mob roll over my corpse without even noticing it was there.

3. There is no "goal". I have no objective, other than take keep, lose keep, retake keep. Please, please tell me there is more to end game PvP than this.

4. Population imbalance is at breaking point right now, and I might leave the game for this reason alone. We are seeing alliances control entire campaigns...

5. Balance issues are fine. What I have an issue with, however, is the complete lack of PvP design direction from Zenimax, and the delay between changes.

6. I think it was a very silly move to force players to choose between supporting the war effort, and spending their alliance points on character upgrades.

7. For some reason I'll never understand, we still have corpses locking people in combat. It should never have existed, and its still here 1 month later.

8. Claiming a keep basically comes down to who can get to the quartermaster first, and who can mash E the fastest. Is this how guilds are to be represented?

9. Like with #5, I am sick of the lack of communication. I guess I've been spoilt by LoL, where developers read the forums and contribute their own opinions.

In the end, I might simply be playing the wrong game. That said, ESO PvP has a lot of potential, and I can see that. I really want the game to do well. If we get enough comments, then hopefully Zenimax will read this thread and see our concerns. Who knows, if we are lucky, they might even al

1-2 I don't agree with or have an issue.
3-4. I can see your point and if it weren't for server imbalance I might not agree at all, but ATM I don't feel there's anything bigger to look forward to because of the server imbalance.
5. I agree balance not really major issues, but IDK about agreeing that there's no design in PvP. I just don't think it's the primary focus.
6. Yes, but at higher levels or once you don't need set pieces you have nothing to spend AP on except tents... this could just be normalization timescale issue not design flaw IMO. All I do now is buy tents and siege.
7. yes yes yes!
8. No personal comments as I'm not overly happy with guilds in ESO, least PvP side. I haven't cared who has claimed in a while because organized PvP guilds go belly up in days/weeks and just become chat rooms to say /lfg. I know it's not the case for all, before anyone thinks I'm dissing their guild. But you can't wear a guild tag can't show your guild pride, you don't know what group-mates guilds are... and I just don't feel a guild pride sensation in PvP.
9. I don't agree as heavily but I do see the point and it comes down to patience IMO. I've Been PvP every days since 10... I only started getting so annoyed when the servers got so imbalanced that there's no challenge. I'm not saving up for any incentive so I don't overly care about points. Theres a new guild I never heard of everyday asking me to join them because we grouped up, that will not be active in 2 weeks tops so I've no guild excitement to get on PvP...

beravinprb19_ESO · May 2014

Phew, it took a lot more time and effort than I expected to finish editing all that... I apologize, Chaos, you posted as I was editing, and pretty much everything has changed by now, sorry about that. Either way, I am most curious to see what everyone else has to say.

limeli8 · May 2014

Pretty much agree with chaos on all issues and the pvp currency lol i'm sitting on 3 mil points i have no use for because even buying tons of siege all the time ( lol i don't even pick it back up anymore once i'm done with it) i still end up with 100-200k more points daily. Kinda hoping for vr12 sets to come with craglorn.

Armoril · May 2014

I enjoy the current PvP, and I like the massive warzone of Cyrodiil, so I wouldn't like to see it changed. I've never seen anything quite like it.

On the other hand, I think at some point this game does need to have a new PvP mode, something on a much smaller scale. Whether it's just arena duels or some kind of 5v5 or capture the flag mode, I think it would be fun to have something that you can do in quick matches, rather than go out to Cyrodiil and spend all that time running to conflict areas all for something that has no end in sight.

I'm not trying to bash the current Cyrodiil PvP, because I think it's great, it's enjoyable. A lot of people don't like the traveling, but I think that's really part of the punishment of losing your keeps. Players don't see an end, or a defeat, so they feel the loss in a different way, and the winning team feels their victory in terms of having a further point to fast travel to. Just take into consideration how long some of the queues for Battlegrounds are in WoW. I was on a high population server and sometimes had to wait 20 minutes or even longer just to do some of the more popular Battlegrounds. Running back to your contested areas of Cyrodiil still doesn't even take that long if you think about it.

beravinprb19_ESO · May 2014

butthurtlocker wrote: »

Just take into consideration how long some of the queues for Battlegrounds are in WoW. I was on a high population server and sometimes had to wait 20 minutes or even longer just to do some of the more popular Battlegrounds.

I agree with you to some extent. However, say what you want, BGs have to be some of the best PvP I have ever had. Obviously you had bad games here and there, but they didn't last 90 days, there were clear and obvious objectives, and you usually didn't get overwhelmed by 3x your numbers, etc. But, as I said before, I might simply be looking for something that ESO does not have to offer. Basically, I'm looking for a reason to stay, I guess.

Thechemicals · May 2014

Boy is he way off.

beravinprb19_ESO · May 2014

Thechemicals wrote: »

Boy is he way off.

Well that helps a lot. Feel free to actually contribute something.

Kaskako · May 2014

Cyrodiil is only fun a couple hours a day when (or if) there are a lot of people in the map doing all sorts of activities. This means that most of the time, for me at least, it's boring.

I pretty much agree with absolutely everything the OP mentioned.

Dudis · May 2014

BGs and arenas have ruined open world pvp in every game i've played so far

I don't think people prefer them because they are better or more fun, but because they are easier.

What this game needs is pvp progression and a real reason to take and hold keeps (the pvp dungeon might fix that).

Imagine for example if each rank in pvp gave you one or a couple of "alliance points" you could spend in the Assault/Support/(add some more) trees and you can only use those points in those trees. (DAoC style-ish)

Then imagine that only the alliance with the most keeps have access to the pvp dungeon in Cyrodiil with some decent PvE content etc but you don't actually get kicked out if your faction loses it.

This would give incentives to take and hold keeps and it'd also auto-balance factions as the dominating one would get access to the dungeon and a bunch of people would go there instead of taking/defending keeps. It would also make for some awesome action in the dungeon with sneaky players remaining even with another faction in control, possibly great last stands etc.
(Again, DAoC-style...)

prana33b14_ESO · May 2014

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

1. Downtime. People feel like Cyrodiil is less about fighting the other alliances, and more about riding around on a horse. A lot of people refer to it as a "running simulator"... Fights do not last very long, and they don't really justify the time it takes to get back in action.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. The size of the map is awesome. Small map size was a huge culprit in GW2 issues. Most likely you don't know what you are doing and run into zergs. Get to know the map better and know where zergs are likely to be. Also, stop treating it like arena/bg pvp where you can run into the zerg and die to get kills and run back from a close spawn point.

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

2. Small Scale PvP. Right now, PvP is about who has the biggest zerg. Players like me, who enjoy some of the smaller, more competitive fights, typically end up getting swarmed over by a local mob. There is no relief for those of us who want a "fair fight", so to speak.

Again, know where the zerg is likely to be and either don't be there or leave before they arrive. Small groups need to keep up a hit and run game style to survive. If the zerg is in one area, go to another or take supplies somewhere else.

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

4. Population Imbalance. This is starting to drive me away. Half the campaigns are barren waste lands, and the other half are controlled by a single alliance. One alliance should never control everything on the map, but that's almost the standard for some campaigns.

Should be easy to find small scale fights in alliances where one faction owns most of the map because even though they are more populated they are SPREAD OUT ALL OVER THE MAP.

Mephos · May 2014

you sound like a arena player, or battleground player. you should not play eso pvp atm.

sSolutionSs · May 2014

I got to lvl 10 tried pvp Hated it.. Figured I had to get to vet rank still very very disappointed. This Game "pvp" Is seriously A joke for an MMO. Ive learned not to mess with a single target build cause you will be fighting 3 or more people if not a whole 25 man. every time I play pvp it just pisses me off. There are too many reasons to list. I think this game is donezo for pvp. but what should I expect Elder Scrolls is a pve game. so Cyrodiil just a pipedream for pvp players that the makers added to put a selling point on the box.

sSolutionSs · May 2014

All I Do Is Search for Small encounters in quest areas and skyshards and search for hours with sometimes 1 or no encounters. so anyone sayin this is possible is smokin or willing to wait hours for one encounter simply because there is no incentive beyond Zerging with your raid group.

beravinprb19_ESO · May 2014

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

1. Downtime. People feel like Cyrodiil is less about fighting the other alliances, and more about riding around on a horse. A lot of people refer to it as a "running simulator"... Fights do not last very long, and they don't really justify the time it takes to get back in action.

Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal. The size of the map is awesome. Small map size was a huge culprit in GW2 issues. Most likely you don't know what you are doing and run into zergs. Get to know the map better and know where zergs are likely to be. Also, stop treating it like arena/bg pvp where you can run into the zerg and die to get kills and run back from a close spawn point.

I know the map better than most, at least on the north side where I spend most of my time. The only BG tactics I use in Cyrodiil is that of using line of sight. I avoid zergs unless I think I can burn down a forward camp, which would be worth the death. No, what usually happens is that I'll be cutting off reinforcements, only to then get overrun by a blob of enemies while I'm stuck in combat, unable to sneak, thanks to some corpse who won't respawn.

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

2. Small Scale PvP. Right now, PvP is about who has the biggest zerg. Players like me, who enjoy some of the smaller, more competitive fights, typically end up getting swarmed over by a local mob. There is no relief for those of us who want a "fair fight", so to speak.

Again, know where the zerg is likely to be and either don't be there or leave before they arrive. Small groups need to keep up a hit and run game style to survive. If the zerg is in one area, go to another or take supplies somewhere else.

This is true. I admit, I am often drawn to reinforcement lines as, quite simply, that is where most of the action is. I am an Oceanic player, and the campaigns lack population when I am online, so if I go anywhere other than a reinforcement line, it can take up to 20 minutes just to find one fight. Believe me, I have tried. I'd rather PvP and die often than live and have little PvP, but maybe that's just me. The lack of population is a serious problem for me.

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

4. Population Imbalance. This is starting to drive me away. Half the campaigns are barren waste lands, and the other half are controlled by a single alliance. One alliance should never control everything on the map, but that's almost the standard for some campaigns.

Should be easy to find small scale fights in alliances where one faction owns most of the map because even though they are more populated they are SPREAD OUT ALL OVER THE MAP.

Yes and no. It is easier to find enemies, yes, but they are usually in small groups. Well, that or they'll be spawn camping the gates as I so often see. I have no issue if people disagree with me, but population imbalance, on the other hand, is a serious issue regardless.

prana33b14_ESO · May 2014

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

Yes and no. It is easier to find enemies, yes, but they are usually in small groups themselves. That, or they'll be spawn camping the gates as I so often see. I'm sorry, but while people are welcome to disagree with my opinions, population imbalance is a serious issue regardless, and it needs to be addressed.

I thought you wanted small group pvp? If you are looking for 1v1s (lol) I suggest ganking solo people running to their zerg.

beravinprb19_ESO · May 2014

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

beravinprb19_ESO wrote: »

Yes and no. It is easier to find enemies, yes, but they are usually in small groups themselves. That, or they'll be spawn camping the gates as I so often see. I'm sorry, but while people are welcome to disagree with my opinions, population imbalance is a serious issue regardless, and it needs to be addressed.

I thought you wanted small group pvp? If you are looking for 1v1s (lol) I suggest ganking solo people running to their zerg.

Which, as I've said a number of times, is what I do. And don't "lol" me, I find the zerg vs zerg combat a horrible way to play, but I don't judge other peoples PvP preferences...

prana33b14_ESO · May 2014

I never said anything about having to join a zerg.

beravinprb19_ESO · May 2014

prana33b14_ESO wrote: »

I never said anything about having to join a zerg.

Ahh, my mistake then. The problem here is that most of my PvP friends have already quit for the above reasons, and I've been left with very few people I care to group with.

Kewljag_66_ESO · May 2014

The long runs and distance in the game is needed to make death and your location important. If you could get anywhere in 5 minutes like in other games it would ruin everything. When you kill someone they are out of the fight and the battle. This gives importance. In other games you can be right back in 1 minute. Siegeing as many tactics with long distance, you can take someonething on side of the map if you know the enemies are on other side. This makes traveling have consquences.

Small scales fight..... these are everywhere, you can find endless skirmishes and ambushes along any path from a keep port to a hotspot keep siege or defense

frwinters_ESO · May 2014

You might as well stop because they have already said they have no plans for Area style PvP and will continue to concentrate on Cyrodil PvP.

LadyChaos · May 2014

i know u changed stuff while i was replying... ty for letting me know that btw, very considerate.

TBH... as long as there are challenging and plentiful foes on the current map i can handle waiting for everything to iron out. I cant handle spawn camp bs, and without enough foes there's no point to it IMO. I'm bored as spit on a 3 day full yellow map.

frwinters_ESO · May 2014

The campaign runs for 3 months. We got two months left so I am making an assumption that we will not see any MAJOR changes to PvP until the next round.

eliisra · May 2014

There are balance issues in campaigns. One thing contributing is the guest-gibberish.

People assign themselves to the campaign where their faction owns the entire map, for bonuses, emperorship, 100% win when it ends and easy questing. Than they go as guests to busy campaigns to farm players, points and get some action.

Sounds fair enough, until you realise they get to keep all their bonuses from their home campaign, when they enter a new one as guests.

There is no penalty in terms of AP gain, for playing it that way. There is also no reward for staying on a campaign where you are the underdog.

This results in several campaigns being only blue, red or yellow. People are just opportunists like that. While more balanced and busy campaigns are lagging the hell out, has long queues to enter etc, because so many guest players.