Stop Complaining about DPS running ahead of Tanks!

Jaimeh · October 2023

OP is not talking about DDs who pass through all the mobs, pull half the dungeon and then likely wipe far ahead, they're talking about moving swiftly from trash pack A to trash pack B, and for the tank to do decent stacking of mobs they absolutely have to reach the pack first and have to slot a ranged taunt. You don't necessarily need a swift ring if you can't work it in your build, but a speedy skill (when I tank I'm on a sorc, so I use boundless storm for eg.) and/or speedy CPs would help a lot. Now, if you're already doing all this as a tank and there is still the aforementioned DD who wants to go even faster, then that's on them, but I do think reasonably swift movement as well as fast mob aggro'ing are part of a practiced tank's skill set.

boi_anachronism_ · October 2023

Jaimeh wrote: »

OP is not talking about DDs who pass through all the mobs, pull half the dungeon and then likely wipe far ahead, they're talking about moving swiftly from trash pack A to trash pack B, and for the tank to do decent stacking of mobs they absolutely have to reach the pack first and have to slot a ranged taunt. You don't necessarily need a swift ring if you can't work it in your build, but a speedy skill (when I tank I'm on a sorc, so I use boundless storm for eg.) and/or speedy CPs would help a lot. Now, if you're already doing all this as a tank and there is still the aforementioned DD who wants to go even faster, then that's on them, but I do think reasonably swift movement as well as fast mob aggro'ing are part of a practiced tank's skill set.

Of course it is but saying that you as a tank are/should be going to be as fast as a nightblade in light armor running concealed and celarity for example (which super common, i do this on mine) is just not gonna happen unless you sacrifice all your jewlery trait spots. Doing that on my build would make it incredibly difficult ro self sustain.

boi_anachronism_ · October 2023

DivineKitty wrote: »

Unless I'm doing some rather tricky vet Dungeons, I normally just shove a Wild Hunt Ring onto my tank. Makes it way easier to keep up with any DPS that runs ahead. It's not like Normal dungeons are particularly tricky, so no need to wear the high-end stuff.
And sometimes I do wear Wild Hunt even in the trickier vet Dungeons. It may cost me a Monster set, but I honestly prefer wearing Mythic Items anyway.

I would never in a million years take out a monster helm in favor of something like that. The tanks job is to provide stripping. Why would i sacrifice something like major vuln for my team to get to a pull 5 seconds earlier when we can burn the boss 30 seconds faster with it? Normal dungeons sure, do whatever but in vet you are ultimately costing yourself more time.

code65536 · October 2023

As a tank main, I agree with the OP. The tank should always be ahead, and I have no problems keeping ahead, and I do this without any sacrifices to my build (no Swift, no Wild Hunt).

Steed's Blessing from the green CP (so no combat-related sacrifices to slot), Major Expedition, and sprinting are all I need. Celerity from red CP is an option, but since that requires sacrificing a combat-related red CP star, I use that only if I am also using Bracing Anchor (to counteract BA's downside). If I'm on a class without a class-based Major Expedition skill (e.g., DK), then I'll run Charging Maneuver and give everyone both Major and Minor Expedition.

https://youtu.be/J0i8O2YWMyA

endgamesmug · October 2023

I just leave if its the "just wipe" squad, if they cant even nuke mobs its a waste of my time. And it leads me to believe they didnt get the memo about mobs dropping weapons now, its happened to me regularly.

The_Boggart · October 2023

It's only magic DP that run ahead, it's no point for a stam DP to run and arrive with nothing to give

DarcyMardin · October 2023

No.

I hâte speedruns and rarely join the group finder because of them. Prefer to solo or duo with my husband.

Speedruns have ruined dungeons for me.

Soarora · October 2023

It’s not like it’s a crime to stand ahead of the tank, if the tank is slow and I’m a DPS I’ll run ahead and then stop before the next enemy so the tank can pull when they get there. If a DPS pulls in front of me, I’m not even going to try to stack the trash. Unless I’m in a rush, you pull it, you tank it. If you’re a good DPS who can mow down the trash then I don’t have to do my job. If I’m standing there watching you try to kill trash then you’re wasting time by running ahead.

boi_anachronism_ · October 2023

Im gonna be perfectly 100% honest here. The majority of times when i see experienced tanks complain about dps running ahead of them on the forums It is referring to those that blitz past mobs and leave them to mop up the mess or have to stay behind with the unlucky players who get caught by everything someone else pulled so they dont die. Its not usually turtle tanks so im not entirely sure the point of the post at all except to have it be interpreted as keeping up with speed runners. Most decent tanks can and do keep up with their dps unless the dps are specifically trying to outpace everyone without sacrificing their build. With an organized group i generally have zero issue with this without running something like swift as i am always running steeds bleesing and celarity anyway.The title tends to come off as being contrary and asking for people to make assumptions which is why people felt like they needed to say something. suggesting people have to or should run swift to keep up is a poor one and something i would never suggest especially for newer tanks. Being optimal 99% of the time is flat wrong. No trial tank in his right mind would ever do such a thing. If i were you i would alter the title to be make it clear what you you are talking about.

Paramedicus · October 2023

DDs running ahead and using random CC, so tank cant pull/group trash are worse

Northwold · October 2023

If your view is that dungeons are only there only to be sped through as fast as you possibly can, maybe you should stop playing dungeons. Or at the very least play them in groups of your own making. You clearly don't enjoy them.

ElderSmitter · October 2023

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

Im gonna be perfectly 100% honest here. The majority of times when i see experienced tanks complain about dps running ahead of them on the forums It is referring to those that blitz past mobs and leave them to mop up the mess or have to stay behind with the unlucky players who get caught by everything someone else pulled so they dont die. Its not usually turtle tanks so im not entirely sure the point of the post at all except to have it be interpreted as keeping up with speed runners. Most decent tanks can and do keep up with their dps unless the dps are specifically trying to outpace everyone without sacrificing their build. With an organized group i generally have zero issue with this without running something like swift as i am always running steeds bleesing and celarity anyway.The title tends to come off as being contrary and asking for people to make assumptions which is why people felt like they needed to say something. suggesting people have to or should run swift to keep up is a poor one and something i would never suggest especially for newer tanks. Being optimal 99% of the time is flat wrong. No trial tank in his right mind would ever do such a thing. If i were you i would alter the title to be make it clear what you you are talking about.

The Point to my post and i have put up plenty of videos of my Tank running Vet content is that in many threads about Fake Tanking i always see people bring up DPS running ahead of Tanks. (Not talking about Normal Dungeons) Once again not counting speed running past trash mobs. My point was Good Tanks should be able to control the situation and lead the group. A good DPS will notice a good Tank and Vice Versa. Cheers! There is always an Outlier.

ElderSmitter · October 2023

Northwold wrote: »

If your view is that dungeons are only there only to be sped through as fast as you possibly can, maybe you should stop playing dungeons. Or at the very least play them in groups of your own making. You clearly don't enjoy them.

Not at all. My Point is that a GOOD Tank should bring Fluidity to the group and be able to lead Good DPS into Battle. Moving Swiftly thru a dungeon does not mean Speed Running thru it. Players get the 2 confused. I do not like Speed Running either but i Enjoy progressing at a nice clip while watching the dps mow down mobs as i do my Job as a tank keep it all nice and tidy for them. Best of Luck!

boi_anachronism_ · October 2023

ElderSmitter88 wrote: »

Northwold wrote: »

If your view is that dungeons are only there only to be sped through as fast as you possibly can, maybe you should stop playing dungeons. Or at the very least play them in groups of your own making. You clearly don't enjoy them.

Not at all. My Point is that a GOOD Tank should bring Fluidity to the group and be able to lead Good DPS into Battle. Moving Swiftly thru a dungeon does not mean Speed Running thru it. Players get the 2 confused. I do not like Speed Running either but i Enjoy progressing at a nice clip while watching the dps mow down mobs as i do my Job as a tank keep it all nice and tidy for them. Best of Luck!

And what im pointing out is that most experienced tanks in vet dungeons have no problem with doing this without changing jewlery. Its newer tanks that tend to have this issue so we should be giving advice about how to accomplish this without sacrificing build. Solutions were mentioned by several other folks that do not include doing that.

blktauna · October 2023

I was alway taught that tank gets crown and that the healer positioned behind the tank. You waited for the tank to pull then the mayhem began.
I do not get the running ahead ignoring the rest of your team. There are 4 people in a group. Don't be a selfish jerk.

rabidmyers · October 2023

StaticWave wrote: »

Unless you're trying to do a No Death run (which should honestly be done with a premade group anyways), or fighting a boss,
there's literally no reason to complain about "Fake Tanks" or DPS running ahead. It's petty at best lol.

sure there are reasons to complain about that besides the ones you mentioned, saying that it's petty to do so is petty at best lol

Necrotech_Master · October 2023

endgamesmug wrote: »

I just leave if its the "just wipe" squad, if they cant even nuke mobs its a waste of my time. And it leads me to believe they didnt get the memo about mobs dropping weapons now, its happened to me regularly.

every mob in a dungeon or trial has a chance to drop set gear from that trial, the chance is fairly low and its not curated but its been that way for many years now

blacksghost · October 2023

At least wait for all four players to enter the dungeon before you race off.

AvalonRanger · October 2023

Stop Complaining about DPS running ahead of Tanks!

One day I'm doing baby sitter job for the CP 1300 brain dead speed runner DD
in Tempest Island Vet. My healer could handle that situation, but tank and other DD
left from team. I was wrong, and tank and other DD were decent players.
Maybe I should abandon brain dead DD for the sake of justice.

If you're skillful player, I can accept speed skipping, but only in normal dungeon.
But, please stop too much nonsense brain dead amateur playing style in Vet.

Ardriel · November 2023

Sorry, but I don't agree with this attitude. As a good DD, you don't run into groups before the tank and pull everything. Above all, you don't run up to bosses and attack them before the tank has. Especially not if the hardmode scroll is not activated. In my opinion, these are basics. It's a shame that it no longer applies.

Diatonic · November 2023

I have only played a tank for the life of ESO.

When anyone else runs ahead and pulls mobs, it always only slows us down.

It means soft taunting spreads mobs before the tank can get there. It means that mobs are too spread so the tank can't run into the right spot and Vate/AOE pull mobs (and/or chain) for a stacked burn.

Any decent tank will sprint between pulls whilst maintaining enough reserves for the actual pull.

Lazy_Voyager · November 2023

I'm going to assume the OP is strictly from a vanilla Normal mindset. If you dps pull on vet dlc, I'm going to pop a stealth pot, sit back and watch you get murdered... then I'm going to leave.

Stamina is (generally) the primary blocking stat; while I don't mind burning around 40% of it between fights, I kinda need that to do my job and most pug healers don't have vDSA restos, energy orb etc. or think to use them after a sprint to an encounter.

If you want a speedy tank, make one yourself or make a premade group. And if you're tanking vet scriv with swift jewelry, best of luck.

ElderSmitter · November 2023

Lazy_Voyager wrote: »

I'm going to assume the OP is strictly from a vanilla Normal mindset. If you dps pull on vet dlc, I'm going to pop a stealth pot, sit back and watch you get murdered... then I'm going to leave.

Stamina is (generally) the primary blocking stat; while I don't mind burning around 40% of it between fights, I kinda need that to do my job and most pug healers don't have vDSA restos, energy orb etc. or think to use them after a sprint to an encounter.

If you want a speedy tank, make one yourself or make a premade group. And if you're tanking vet scriv with swift jewelry, best of luck.

Not sure what you mean by Vanilla Mindset. I run Hard DLC content and Trials. You can easily look me up on You Tube as i am a Stamina Templar Tank. I do run 3 diff Tank Sets Maybe 4 depending on the Situation and do not mind Speed. Yes if a DPS is running a DLC with me and pulling adds i won't go out of my way to save him. My Point is as a Tank I keep up or am ahead a Majority of the fight setting the tone and doing my Job as a tank corralling the Adds. Heck I bet many on this Forum have had me Tank for them as I enjoy doing Pug Groups. Cheers!

Araneae6537 · November 2023

Edit: Deleted, somewhat OT ramble, sorry

Ph1p · November 2023

ElderSmitter wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by Vanilla Mindset. I run Hard DLC content and Trials. You can easily look me up on You Tube as i am a Stamina Templar Tank. I do run 3 diff Tank Sets Maybe 4 depending on the Situation and do not mind Speed. Yes if a DPS is running a DLC with me and pulling adds i won't go out of my way to save him. My Point is as a Tank I keep up or am ahead a Majority of the fight setting the tone and doing my Job as a tank corralling the Adds. Heck I bet many on this Forum have had me Tank for them as I enjoy doing Pug Groups. Cheers!

I think your original post had the right content in the wrong context. Almost everyone complaining about DDs running ahead is talking about players who pull adds and bosses, instead of letting the tank stack everything, especially in veteran dungeons. It invariably takes more time, is incredibly annoying, and you acknowledged that multiple times as well.

You're arguing that a tank should not unnecessarily slow down the group. I fully agree that a tank can keep up (within reason). But my tank just won't be as fast as the stamina DPS in medium armor, whose resource pool is 50% larger than mine. It's also not reasonable to expect tanks to switch to Swift jewelry to save a few seconds of sprinting time. Most players won't reconstruct jewelry just for that purpose. Plus, console players don't have Wizard's Wardrobe or Dressing Room and can't swap at the push of a button.

It goes both ways: The tank shouldn't just casually walk from add pull to add pull, but if DDs need to wait 3 seconds for the tank to arrive, that's also a non-issue.

ElderSmitter · November 2023

Ph1p wrote: »

ElderSmitter wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by Vanilla Mindset. I run Hard DLC content and Trials. You can easily look me up on You Tube as i am a Stamina Templar Tank. I do run 3 diff Tank Sets Maybe 4 depending on the Situation and do not mind Speed. Yes if a DPS is running a DLC with me and pulling adds i won't go out of my way to save him. My Point is as a Tank I keep up or am ahead a Majority of the fight setting the tone and doing my Job as a tank corralling the Adds. Heck I bet many on this Forum have had me Tank for them as I enjoy doing Pug Groups. Cheers!

I think your original post had the right content in the wrong context. Almost everyone complaining about DDs running ahead is talking about players who pull adds and bosses, instead of letting the tank stack everything, especially in veteran dungeons. It invariably takes more time, is incredibly annoying, and you acknowledged that multiple times as well.

You're arguing that a tank should not unnecessarily slow down the group. I fully agree that a tank can keep up (within reason). But my tank just won't be as fast as the stamina DPS in medium armor, whose resource pool is 50% larger than mine. It's also not reasonable to expect tanks to switch to Swift jewelry to save a few seconds of sprinting time. Most players won't reconstruct jewelry just for that purpose. Plus, console players don't have Wizard's Wardrobe or Dressing Room and can't swap at the push of a button.

It goes both ways: The tank shouldn't just casually walk from add pull to add pull, but if DDs need to wait 3 seconds for the tank to arrive, that's also a non-issue.

Well said and i do agree with you. I will add a tip. When the DPS are down to the last add unless your overly concerned about looting the add you can start moving on to the next part of the dungeon to help keep up as well. I have been testing many sets as a Tank. It keeps me busy, and I am always looking for fun new sets to address each dungeon or group since I really enjoy pugging. I ran a Medium Tank set 5 Piece Medium with 2 Piece Heavy the other day Non-Trial sets All Divines with a Sturdy Shield Only and completed Vet Castle Thorn fairly easily. I should have recorded it. I will next time. This build had Zero Swift Jewelry and only Green CP for speed. I was at 157% Speed under Advanced Info. I will add. I am a rare Stamina Built Templar Tank so Probably why I am not too often worried about Stamina as a few Heavy Attacks and back to full quickly. Thanks for Replying. You can check out my Scrivener's Hall Run on YT i uploaded it the other day.

ceruulean · November 2023

Sometimes you have to slow down, like in March Of Sacrifices. Are you really gonna expect most tanks have the add pulls memorized? Because yeah, you actually have to stop and think about it if you want a no-death. And do multiple runs to memorize the pattern, which most people don't have the patience for anyway. Better to stick up on soul gems.

ElderSmitter · November 2023

ceruulean wrote: »

Sometimes you have to slow down, like in March Of Sacrifices. Are you really gonna expect most tanks have the add pulls memorized? Because yeah, you actually have to stop and think about it if you want a no-death. And do multiple runs to memorize the pattern, which most people don't have the patience for anyway. Better to stick up on soul gems.

I have a HM MoS on my YT channel. Of course, if you're planning a No Death Run then usually you coordinate that stuff. Even in a Pug i have done plenty Of No Death Runs.

boi_anachronism_ · November 2023

So just to be clear here: you run an off meta tank but are arguing that this is ideal for 99% of content. My dude i have run with tanks that have tanked every trifecta, both dungeon and trial and had multiple records on my server. Server records are not the result of tanks being way ahead of the dps. They are the result of being able to solo tank so they can pick up an extra dps. Throw on maneuver and be done... they aint using swift.. but you do you.