Syiccal wrote: »

Infalable mage imo isn't great on an oakensoul build as you get everything from your ring and shock dmg any way that Infalable gives..any other light set would do the same if not better..I'm currently weighing up to farm storm cursed set.

That's how I felt about it before trying it out as well. I feel differently now. I respect that you do not.

Agenericname wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Infalable mage imo isn't great on an oakensoul build as you get everything from your ring and shock dmg any way that Infalable gives..any other light set would do the same if not better..I'm currently weighing up to farm storm cursed set.

Slayer is redundant, but you're still getting Minor Vulnerability from IA.
IA still gets 2 lines of crit chance plus the extra damage to HA.

I would imagine that it falls short on a parse, but in group content with no other source of Minor Vul it probably makes some of that back and its easy to maintain.

Minor vulnerability I belive is easy to obtain from wall and pretty much any shock ability..I may be wrong though

isadoraisacat wrote: »

AcadianPaladin wrote: »

My HA Oakensorc will continue to use Sergeant's Mail + Mother's Sorrow.

Proc'ing SPC - my magward and magplar both use Vigor for that.

I tested my build with mothers sorrow today instead of storm masters and I around the same dps it doesn’t seem to change anything at all. So i think mothers sorrow is a good fill in set. It gives a lot of crit.

Swap mothers sorrow for light orders wrath then swap theif for the lover, get same crit chance , more pen and more crit dmg

Syiccal wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

Infalable mage imo isn't great on an oakensoul build as you get everything from your ring and shock dmg any way that Infalable gives..any other light set would do the same if not better..I'm currently weighing up to farm storm cursed set.

Is Storm Cursed really appealing at a 15% proc chance? (Especially in a single-target fight)

I considered it because it has no cool down as far as I know which means every tick of shock daamge from every ability has potential to proc it on a sorc

On a single target that would be approximately 1 tick/second from the Volatile Familiar, same from Wall of Elements, a little more than than from heavy attacks, half a tick from the Twilight, and a quarter tick from the shock glyph. So around 4 ticks/second, or an expected proc rate of ~60%/second. And much worse than that in AoE.

I don't recall the proc value being high enough to make that good vs. a second set that procs on heavy attacks even in a single-target fight.

Maybe I got some numbers wrong?

Syiccal wrote: »

Wouldn't it be better in Aoe as your shocking dmg hits more targets giving more opportunity to proc, if the enemies are stacked like trash packs it also hits 2 nearby enemies..I dunno maybe someone with a good idea.of the math can help?

I'm pretty decent at math. If I get something numerically wrong here, it is almost always because I'm mistaken about game mechanics, not remembering tooltip numbers properly, or something like that.

Speaking ot that, I wrote everything unitalicized below -- and also in my previous post -- under the assumption you seemed to have that pets can proc Storm Cursed. Upon review, I'm not at all sure that's true. Is it? If it isn't, then Storm Cursed is a lot worse for a sorcerer HA build than the discussion below suggests.

---

The 60%ish chance I mentioned of proccing per second was on the primary target. Each other target can proc off AoEs, which hit a little more than 1.5x/second, assuming the Volatile Familiar's special attack is (almost) always on. (The AoEs I'm assuming are HAs plus that special pet ability.) Call it 25%ish additional chance per target.

Since the proc itself is AoE, we're entitled to add all those numbers together, but of course only within the radius of the HA AoE (is that 6 meters now?) and the set proc AoE (5 meters, I gather). So in an AoE situation with a total of 3 enemies, you'd have something in the range of 1.1 procs/second, which is a similar rate to what you'd get from a set that buffed HAs directly -- Undaunted Unweaver/Infiltrator or Noble Duelist mainly, if we assume Sergeant's Mail is the other set.

It seems the proc value on Storm Cursed is substantially higher than on Undaunted Unweaver or even Noble Duelist, and of course there are no limitations on procs like those sets have. So the set might be fairly competitive in single-target boss fights, and it could be quite good in AoE fights.

And by the way -- I left out ultimate skills' potential to cause set procs, which could help a bit more.

But again, this assumes that pet attacks can proc the set. If they don't, the set will look a lot worse.

Syiccal wrote: »

So it could be worth looking at as a viable storm master replacement

Are you sure that pet attacks proc it?

Syiccal wrote: »

I actually don't know but I'd assume it would as thier damage is shock

The issue is them being pets.

Per this thread pets didn't proc sets a few years ago, and I'm not aware of anything being changed.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/515186/should-pets-proc-sets

Unless we can get very definitive sounding opinions from other posters, I'd recommend testing the issue while we still have a PTS on which you can get sets for free.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

So how does Knight Slayer now look for HA Oakensoul builds, especially in casual, non-trial groups? (I suspect it would be lousy in trials.)

Considering you mentioned casual non-trial groups, I only did a quick test on a 3M dummy (on the PTS) with my not entirely optimized Magden. I did a few tests with Knight Slayer, Storm Master and Noble Duelist and left the rest of the build the same (Sergeant's Mail, Oakensoul, 1pc Slimecraw).

1. Knight Slayer: 42082 and 43643
2. Storm Master: 41580 and 43753
3. Noble Duelist: 46333 and 49068 (and here's a screenshot of the gear and CP)

So Knight Slayer isn't too bad, even though it doesn't crit. Especially compared to the Storm Master parse with only 70% uptime on the Storm Master buff. Still, I'll personally switch to Noble Duelist if I can be bothered to switch my setup at all.

Syiccal wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

So how does Knight Slayer now look for HA Oakensoul builds, especially in casual, non-trial groups? (I suspect it would be lousy in trials.)

Considering you mentioned casual non-trial groups, I only did a quick test on a 3M dummy (on the PTS) with my not entirely optimized Magden. I did a few tests with Knight Slayer, Storm Master and Noble Duelist and left the rest of the build the same (Sergeant's Mail, Oakensoul, 1pc Slimecraw).

1. Knight Slayer: 42082 and 43643
2. Storm Master: 41580 and 43753
3. Noble Duelist: 46333 and 49068 (and here's a screenshot of the gear and CP)

So Knight Slayer isn't too bad, even though it doesn't crit. Especially compared to the Storm Master parse with only 70% uptime on the Storm Master buff. Still, I'll personally switch to Noble Duelist if I can be bothered to switch my setup at all.

Out of curiosity are you able to trial this with Sergeant's and light orders wrath (lover mundus)??

Sure, but I didn't use The Lover on the Trial Dummy as I was already over the penetration cap with The Thief (and I would've probably been better off with a few Medium instead of Light pieces).

Anyways, these were my results with Order's Wrath:

• 81593 on the Trial Dummy (Thief Mundus)
• 46027 on a 3M Dummy (Thief Mundus) (Screenshot of the build)
• 43548 on a 3M Dummy (Lover Mundus)

Edit; Mind you that my character isn't entirely optimized (a few Infused pieces on the jewelry, a shock instead of flame glyph on the weapon and one health glyph on Slimecraw), so it could do a bit more DPS. But it's nice to know that Order's Wrath can serve as an alternative to Storm Master in scenario's more similar to a 3M Dummy than a Trial Dummy, as I already have a spare gold set on the live server.

BasP wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

So how does Knight Slayer now look for HA Oakensoul builds, especially in casual, non-trial groups? (I suspect it would be lousy in trials.)

Considering you mentioned casual non-trial groups, I only did a quick test on a 3M dummy (on the PTS) with my not entirely optimized Magden. I did a few tests with Knight Slayer, Storm Master and Noble Duelist and left the rest of the build the same (Sergeant's Mail, Oakensoul, 1pc Slimecraw).

1. Knight Slayer: 42082 and 43643
2. Storm Master: 41580 and 43753
3. Noble Duelist: 46333 and 49068 (and here's a screenshot of the gear and CP)

So Knight Slayer isn't too bad, even though it doesn't crit. Especially compared to the Storm Master parse with only 70% uptime on the Storm Master buff. Still, I'll personally switch to Noble Duelist if I can be bothered to switch my setup at all.

Out of curiosity are you able to trial this with Sergeant's and light orders wrath (lover mundus)??

Sure, but I didn't use The Lover on the Trial Dummy as I was already over the penetration cap with The Thief (and I would've probably been better off with a few Medium instead of Light pieces).

Anyways, these were my results with Order's Wrath:

• 81593 on the Trial Dummy (Thief Mundus)
• 46027 on a 3M Dummy (Thief Mundus) (Screenshot of the build)
• 43548 on a 3M Dummy (Lover Mundus)

Edit; Mind you that my character isn't entirely optimized (a few Infused pieces on the jewelry, a shock instead of flame glyph on the weapon and one health glyph on Slimecraw), so it could do a bit more DPS. But it's nice to know that Order's Wrath can serve as an alternative to Storm Master in scenario's more similar to a 3M Dummy than a Trial Dummy, as I already have a spare gold set on the live server.

Interesting that its 3k more dps with thief instead of lover on 3m dummy

BasP wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

So how does Knight Slayer now look for HA Oakensoul builds, especially in casual, non-trial groups? (I suspect it would be lousy in trials.)

Considering you mentioned casual non-trial groups, I only did a quick test on a 3M dummy (on the PTS) with my not entirely optimized Magden. I did a few tests with Knight Slayer, Storm Master and Noble Duelist and left the rest of the build the same (Sergeant's Mail, Oakensoul, 1pc Slimecraw).

1. Knight Slayer: 42082 and 43643
2. Storm Master: 41580 and 43753
3. Noble Duelist: 46333 and 49068 (and here's a screenshot of the gear and CP)

So Knight Slayer isn't too bad, even though it doesn't crit. Especially compared to the Storm Master parse with only 70% uptime on the Storm Master buff. Still, I'll personally switch to Noble Duelist if I can be bothered to switch my setup at all.

Out of curiosity are you able to trial this with Sergeant's and light orders wrath (lover mundus)??

Sure, but I didn't use The Lover on the Trial Dummy as I was already over the penetration cap with The Thief (and I would've probably been better off with a few Medium instead of Light pieces).

Anyways, these were my results with Order's Wrath:

• 81593 on the Trial Dummy (Thief Mundus)
• 46027 on a 3M Dummy (Thief Mundus) (Screenshot of the build)
• 43548 on a 3M Dummy (Lover Mundus)

Edit; Mind you that my character isn't entirely optimized (a few Infused pieces on the jewelry, a shock instead of flame glyph on the weapon and one health glyph on Slimecraw), so it could do a bit more DPS. But it's nice to know that Order's Wrath can serve as an alternative to Storm Master in scenario's more similar to a 3M Dummy than a Trial Dummy, as I already have a spare gold set on the live server.

Speaking of optimization, I wonder a bit about those CP.

• +damage CP seem generally weak for HAs, because one is starting out at +90% or better from Empower and Weapon Expert, and hence dividing by at least 1.9.
• Since Off-Balance uptime won't get far over 30% in a boss fight, Exploiter is equivalent to little better than a +3% to damage. So probably under 2.5% boost to DPS, all things considered.
• Wrathful Strikes is likely to give at least +247 to spell damage and hence a little over 3% to DPS.
• Fighting FInesse might be better yet.

Also -- how do you get >90% crit damage? Base + MInor Force + the Animal Companions passive won't get you there, and I didn't notice anything else.

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

So how does Knight Slayer now look for HA Oakensoul builds, especially in casual, non-trial groups? (I suspect it would be lousy in trials.)

Considering you mentioned casual non-trial groups, I only did a quick test on a 3M dummy (on the PTS) with my not entirely optimized Magden. I did a few tests with Knight Slayer, Storm Master and Noble Duelist and left the rest of the build the same (Sergeant's Mail, Oakensoul, 1pc Slimecraw).

1. Knight Slayer: 42082 and 43643
2. Storm Master: 41580 and 43753
3. Noble Duelist: 46333 and 49068 (and here's a screenshot of the gear and CP)

So Knight Slayer isn't too bad, even though it doesn't crit. Especially compared to the Storm Master parse with only 70% uptime on the Storm Master buff. Still, I'll personally switch to Noble Duelist if I can be bothered to switch my setup at all.

Thanks!!

I gather these parses are on the PTS, and hence with the Empower nerf?

You're welcome! And yes, that's with the nerfs to Empower and Storm Master (back in October when I made the build I did some tests too and back then I got better results with SM than Noble).

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

So how does Knight Slayer now look for HA Oakensoul builds, especially in casual, non-trial groups? (I suspect it would be lousy in trials.)

Considering you mentioned casual non-trial groups, I only did a quick test on a 3M dummy (on the PTS) with my not entirely optimized Magden. I did a few tests with Knight Slayer, Storm Master and Noble Duelist and left the rest of the build the same (Sergeant's Mail, Oakensoul, 1pc Slimecraw).

1. Knight Slayer: 42082 and 43643
2. Storm Master: 41580 and 43753
3. Noble Duelist: 46333 and 49068 (and here's a screenshot of the gear and CP)

So Knight Slayer isn't too bad, even though it doesn't crit. Especially compared to the Storm Master parse with only 70% uptime on the Storm Master buff. Still, I'll personally switch to Noble Duelist if I can be bothered to switch my setup at all.

Out of curiosity are you able to trial this with Sergeant's and light orders wrath (lover mundus)??

Sure, but I didn't use The Lover on the Trial Dummy as I was already over the penetration cap with The Thief (and I would've probably been better off with a few Medium instead of Light pieces).

Anyways, these were my results with Order's Wrath:

• 81593 on the Trial Dummy (Thief Mundus)
• 46027 on a 3M Dummy (Thief Mundus) (Screenshot of the build)
• 43548 on a 3M Dummy (Lover Mundus)

Edit; Mind you that my character isn't entirely optimized (a few Infused pieces on the jewelry, a shock instead of flame glyph on the weapon and one health glyph on Slimecraw), so it could do a bit more DPS. But it's nice to know that Order's Wrath can serve as an alternative to Storm Master in scenario's more similar to a 3M Dummy than a Trial Dummy, as I already have a spare gold set on the live server.

Speaking of optimization, I wonder a bit about those CP.

• +damage CP seem generally weak for HAs, because one is starting out at +90% or better from Empower and Weapon Expert, and hence dividing by at least 1.9.
• Since Off-Balance uptime won't get far over 30% in a boss fight, Exploiter is equivalent to little better than a +3% to damage. So probably under 2.5% boost to DPS, all things considered.
• Wrathful Strikes is likely to give at least +247 to spell damage and hence a little over 3% to DPS.
• Fighting FInesse might be better yet.

Also -- how do you get >90% crit damage? Base + MInor Force + the Animal Companions passive won't get you there, and I didn't notice anything else.

I had to take a second look as well, but the only parses with around 90% crit damage are with Storm Master (Medium Armor passives) or Order's Wrath (+8% Crit Damage).

I just did do a couple of tests in which I swapped Master-at-Arms for Wrathful Strikes, Fighting Finesse, Biting Aura and Thaumaturge, but that second 49K parse in the earlier screenshot with M-a-A was still the highest. I then replaced Exploiter with both Wrathful Strikes and Fighting Finesse, but that earlier parse also came out on top. You can find the screenshots here, in case you're interested.

The results were pretty close and the number of crits differs a bit between the parses so that has a noticeable influence as well though. Regarding the Off Balance uptime, I remember having a good uptime in vVH versus the bosses. I played around with Elemental Susceptibility too, which basically guarantees proccing off balance versus enemies in your Wall of Elements. That said, I might switch Exploiter for Fighting Finesse considering that FF also increases your critical healing, which is nice for a solo player like me.

By the way, if you're interested in a decent set that plays off heavy attacks and has a pretty cool looking AOE lightning proc (fitting for sorcs), you could check out Thunder Caller. I did two parses with that set instead of Noble and both were nearly 47K, making it the second best set of the ones I tested today.

Medium armor. That makes sense.

But the Thunder Caller part of your post is surprising. It looks like 8 ticks every 13+ seconds, on average, vs. 14-15 ticks in the same time period for Noble Duelist/Undauted Inflitrator/whatever. The ticks seem to be of similar magnitude to those from those sets. However, it seems they would NOT be buffed by Empower or Weapons Expert. Possibly smaller radius than Trifocus/Lightning HA as well. What am I missing?

BasP wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

So how does Knight Slayer now look for HA Oakensoul builds, especially in casual, non-trial groups? (I suspect it would be lousy in trials.)

Considering you mentioned casual non-trial groups, I only did a quick test on a 3M dummy (on the PTS) with my not entirely optimized Magden. I did a few tests with Knight Slayer, Storm Master and Noble Duelist and left the rest of the build the same (Sergeant's Mail, Oakensoul, 1pc Slimecraw).

1. Knight Slayer: 42082 and 43643
2. Storm Master: 41580 and 43753
3. Noble Duelist: 46333 and 49068 (and here's a screenshot of the gear and CP)

So Knight Slayer isn't too bad, even though it doesn't crit. Especially compared to the Storm Master parse with only 70% uptime on the Storm Master buff. Still, I'll personally switch to Noble Duelist if I can be bothered to switch my setup at all.

Thanks!!

I gather these parses are on the PTS, and hence with the Empower nerf?

You're welcome! And yes, that's with the nerfs to Empower and Storm Master (back in October when I made the build I did some tests too and back then I got better results with SM than Noble).

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

Syiccal wrote: »

BasP wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

So how does Knight Slayer now look for HA Oakensoul builds, especially in casual, non-trial groups? (I suspect it would be lousy in trials.)

Considering you mentioned casual non-trial groups, I only did a quick test on a 3M dummy (on the PTS) with my not entirely optimized Magden. I did a few tests with Knight Slayer, Storm Master and Noble Duelist and left the rest of the build the same (Sergeant's Mail, Oakensoul, 1pc Slimecraw).

1. Knight Slayer: 42082 and 43643
2. Storm Master: 41580 and 43753
3. Noble Duelist: 46333 and 49068 (and here's a screenshot of the gear and CP)

So Knight Slayer isn't too bad, even though it doesn't crit. Especially compared to the Storm Master parse with only 70% uptime on the Storm Master buff. Still, I'll personally switch to Noble Duelist if I can be bothered to switch my setup at all.

Out of curiosity are you able to trial this with Sergeant's and light orders wrath (lover mundus)??

Sure, but I didn't use The Lover on the Trial Dummy as I was already over the penetration cap with The Thief (and I would've probably been better off with a few Medium instead of Light pieces).

Anyways, these were my results with Order's Wrath:

• 81593 on the Trial Dummy (Thief Mundus)
• 46027 on a 3M Dummy (Thief Mundus) (Screenshot of the build)
• 43548 on a 3M Dummy (Lover Mundus)

Edit; Mind you that my character isn't entirely optimized (a few Infused pieces on the jewelry, a shock instead of flame glyph on the weapon and one health glyph on Slimecraw), so it could do a bit more DPS. But it's nice to know that Order's Wrath can serve as an alternative to Storm Master in scenario's more similar to a 3M Dummy than a Trial Dummy, as I already have a spare gold set on the live server.

Speaking of optimization, I wonder a bit about those CP.

• +damage CP seem generally weak for HAs, because one is starting out at +90% or better from Empower and Weapon Expert, and hence dividing by at least 1.9.
• Since Off-Balance uptime won't get far over 30% in a boss fight, Exploiter is equivalent to little better than a +3% to damage. So probably under 2.5% boost to DPS, all things considered.
• Wrathful Strikes is likely to give at least +247 to spell damage and hence a little over 3% to DPS.
• Fighting FInesse might be better yet.

Also -- how do you get >90% crit damage? Base + MInor Force + the Animal Companions passive won't get you there, and I didn't notice anything else.

I had to take a second look as well, but the only parses with around 90% crit damage are with Storm Master (Medium Armor passives) or Order's Wrath (+8% Crit Damage).

I just did do a couple of tests in which I swapped Master-at-Arms for Wrathful Strikes, Fighting Finesse, Biting Aura and Thaumaturge, but that second 49K parse in the earlier screenshot with M-a-A was still the highest. I then replaced Exploiter with both Wrathful Strikes and Fighting Finesse, but that earlier parse also came out on top. You can find the screenshots here, in case you're interested.

The results were pretty close and the number of crits differs a bit between the parses so that has a noticeable influence as well though. Regarding the Off Balance uptime, I remember having a good uptime in vVH versus the bosses. I played around with Elemental Susceptibility too, which basically guarantees proccing off balance versus enemies in your Wall of Elements. That said, I might switch Exploiter for Fighting Finesse considering that FF also increases your critical healing, which is nice for a solo player like me.

By the way, if you're interested in a decent set that plays off heavy attacks and has a pretty cool looking AOE lightning proc (fitting for sorcs), you could check out Thunder Caller. I did two parses with that set instead of Noble and both were nearly 47K, making it the second best set of the ones I tested today.