NERF PLAGUEBREAK.

neferpitou73 · February 2022

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

Lets be real here. Any proc set that can do 20k+ damage to each target in its AoE should not exist. I'm amazed they didn't just delete the set for the next update. Would probably do more good to just delete it than make changes to it.

I'm just saying vicious death has existed in this game for years and can do this same amount of damage when it chains on people and there was never a call to action against this.
Is plaguebreak significantly better than VD? Sure, it might even be overtuned since it procs off NPCs and I wouldn't be mad if that was changed. But to say it should be deleted from the game even though it's functionally supposed to be the same as VD is kind of silly

The difference between VD and PB tho is that PB procs when anyone dies for any reason if they're infected. With VD at least you have to be the one to get the killing blows. So it's much easier to get procs because you don't have to worry about who does the killing. It's range and damage scaling is also larger than VD's. If they limited to the proc going off when the dot was purged I wouldn't have as much of an issue with it.

That would make it kind of useless though, unless they significantly increased the damage of purge. Not everyone in open world runs a purge to even make it proc often enough to make it viable, would make it kind of useless, and way worse than VD. Because the condition of damage on purge only is way more situational than "kill an enemy player"
IMO I think it should be at least equivalent to VD because the intention of the sets are the exact same as VD, to target large groups as stated by zos themselves.
While I admit they did make it as an anti-purge set, that's still not really worth running if it's functionally only meant to target purging zergs since most zergs aren't purging every 2 seconds, usually like once every 8-10 seconds

The set was introduced to stop ball groups who were running purge bots. And it has accomplished that. It doesn't need to be there for anything else. The issue now is that those same ball groups are putting it on *one* of their builds and using it to sluaghter everybody. With VD at least they have to put it on all their DDs to get use out of it. It's a very small investment for the massive damage the set deals.

Danse_Mayhem · February 2022

It would be great if it only worked against a Zerg, but it doesn’t.
By definition, a Zerg will be 30-40 people swarming a keep from all angles. A plaguebreak / VD Pror or coordinated ultimate will maybe drop some, maybe half of this, but they will have the numbers to recover.
The whole point of describing a Zerg is that they have the numbers to just overcome anything.

Ball groups are 12 ppl all optimised to run stacked, and plaguebreak does nothing here since they just heal through it.

Smaller groups of 5-10 people just running normal builds are NOT a Zerg. Please know the difference, and these are the ones getting decimated by sets like plaguebreak and dark convergence.
Sure we can encourage new players into pvp by giving them a high resistance / high health build, but there’s more to surviving this set than just being tanky. I run a social guild and it’s incredibly discouraging to both myself and the newer players when I try to bring in people to teach them Cyrodil, because these ‘Zerg killer’ / ‘ball group killer’ sets are just used BY those 2 groups to much greater effect, and small groups + solo players don’t stand a chance.

No I’m not talking about the guy solo running around a tower purging whenever because no one else is around, I’m talking about anything to do with objectives where you can’t stand near guards, can’t stand on a ram, can’t stand on flags, can’t trust other reds because they may be a purge troll, can’t trust other reds not to block the dark con pull that gets you killed by -Their- build.
I’m all for being punished by a better player with a better build, but a set that punishes you exclusively for other players actions, on the same faction, is actually just so stupid

neferpitou73 · February 2022

Danse_Mayhem wrote: »

It would be great if it only worked against a Zerg, but it doesn’t.
By definition, a Zerg will be 30-40 people swarming a keep from all angles. A plaguebreak / VD Pror or coordinated ultimate will maybe drop some, maybe half of this, but they will have the numbers to recover.
The whole point of describing a Zerg is that they have the numbers to just overcome anything.

Ball groups are 12 ppl all optimised to run stacked, and plaguebreak does nothing here since they just heal through it.

Smaller groups of 5-10 people just running normal builds are NOT a Zerg. Please know the difference, and these are the ones getting decimated by sets like plaguebreak and dark convergence.
Sure we can encourage new players into pvp by giving them a high resistance / high health build, but there’s more to surviving this set than just being tanky. I run a social guild and it’s incredibly discouraging to both myself and the newer players when I try to bring in people to teach them Cyrodil, because these ‘Zerg killer’ / ‘ball group killer’ sets are just used BY those 2 groups to much greater effect, and small groups + solo players don’t stand a chance.

No I’m not talking about the guy solo running around a tower purging whenever because no one else is around, I’m talking about anything to do with objectives where you can’t stand near guards, can’t stand on a ram, can’t stand on flags, can’t trust other reds because they may be a purge troll, can’t trust other reds not to block the dark con pull that gets you killed by -Their- build.
I’m all for being punished by a better player with a better build, but a set that punishes you exclusively for other players actions, on the same faction, is actually just so stupid

Precisely

Kwoung · February 2022

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

neferpitou73 wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Veg wrote: »

Lets be real here. Any proc set that can do 20k+ damage to each target in its AoE should not exist. I'm amazed they didn't just delete the set for the next update. Would probably do more good to just delete it than make changes to it.

I'm just saying vicious death has existed in this game for years and can do this same amount of damage when it chains on people and there was never a call to action against this.
Is plaguebreak significantly better than VD? Sure, it might even be overtuned since it procs off NPCs and I wouldn't be mad if that was changed. But to say it should be deleted from the game even though it's functionally supposed to be the same as VD is kind of silly

The difference between VD and PB tho is that PB procs when anyone dies for any reason if they're infected. With VD at least you have to be the one to get the killing blows. So it's much easier to get procs because you don't have to worry about who does the killing. It's range and damage scaling is also larger than VD's. If they limited to the proc going off when the dot was purged I wouldn't have as much of an issue with it.

That would make it kind of useless though, unless they significantly increased the damage of purge. Not everyone in open world runs a purge to even make it proc often enough to make it viable, would make it kind of useless, and way worse than VD. Because the condition of damage on purge only is way more situational than "kill an enemy player"
IMO I think it should be at least equivalent to VD because the intention of the sets are the exact same as VD, to target large groups as stated by zos themselves.
While I admit they did make it as an anti-purge set, that's still not really worth running if it's functionally only meant to target purging zergs since most zergs aren't purging every 2 seconds, usually like once every 8-10 seconds

Plaguebreak was designed and implemented to combat ball groups their constant purging.
Dark Convergence was meant to combat zergs according to it's release notes.

Neither works very well for it's purpose, because both operate well outside of their intended uses (and more effectively), as usual when ZOS tries to placate forum complaints.

If they even changed PB to only explode on purging *OR* dying from the effect of the dot, even that would be a huge improvement. The AE is huge, a 16m diameter is not a small area in PVP and if cast on a back flag, pretty much kills anyone by the side door or siege merchant as well. If it is going to stay as is, the range needs to be reduced down to 2-3m max radius to stay in line with how VD works.

Sun7dance · February 2022

milllaurie wrote: »

[....]

The damage is not that big. Kept purging plaguebreak yesterday maybe 100 times. Never hit more than 4-5k. If you die by 40k plaguebreak it's on you. It has 8m radius, please move 2 steps away, then purge.
And yes, don't allow low hp people in your group or tell them to run a different food. If you don't help newbies, what good are you?
The only time I got hit by a huge plaguebreak was when the set got released, never since.
I see the set as an ultimate zerg buster, it is exacly that. You can only blame yourself for dying to that.

And what should i do, when i want to defend a resource with one enemy player on the flag between 4 npc?
Does anyone know if an npc explosion on you is affected by battle spirit at all?

Btw it doesn't have only 8m radius, coz of its domino effect potential.
Fact is, you can die through this set without doing anything wrong and that's an absolute no-go!

Option 1:
It won't procc on npc and when a carrier dies.

Option 2:
Remove the set from the game!

milllaurie · February 2022

Sun7dance wrote: »

milllaurie wrote: »

[....]

The damage is not that big. Kept purging plaguebreak yesterday maybe 100 times. Never hit more than 4-5k. If you die by 40k plaguebreak it's on you. It has 8m radius, please move 2 steps away, then purge.
And yes, don't allow low hp people in your group or tell them to run a different food. If you don't help newbies, what good are you?
The only time I got hit by a huge plaguebreak was when the set got released, never since.
I see the set as an ultimate zerg buster, it is exacly that. You can only blame yourself for dying to that.

And what should i do, when i want to defend a resource with one enemy player on the flag between 4 npc?
Does anyone know if an npc explosion on you is affected by battle spirit at all?

Btw it doesn't have only 8m radius, coz of its domino effect potential.
Fact is, you can die through this set without doing anything wrong and that's an absolute no-go!

Option 1:
It won't procc on npc and when a carrier dies.

Option 2:
Remove the set from the game!

I ever only solo/smallscale in this game and as you can imagine I am defending resources quite often. I have never ever died to plaguebreak explosion in a resource (outnumbered, npcs nuked in 1 hit) for a very good reason. I stay away from them, especially if I see a plaguebreak effect active.
Not a mile away, 8m is enough. Also you can easily eat an explosion from 2-3 people/npcs if you have HoTs up (which you should have in pvp).
Remember in the bomber times when a group took a resource, they would all spread out and block while flipping a flag? They did it to counter bombers.
[snip]

[Edit for Baiting.]

Danse_Mayhem · February 2022

I’ve got it, just do the following guys and you’ll have no issues with plaguebreak

- Make sure you always have a minimum of 40k health in pvp.
- Permablock 24/ to avoid dark convergence procs to avoid getting close to others.
- Don’t ever take flags or even be inside of a keep.
- Don’t use a ram.
- Dont ever use purge / cleanse / netch. Just unslot these and accept those core abilities are a thing of the past. Take your dots like a champ from now on (And enjoy getting sieged)
- Don’t play in a group larger than 1.
- Don’t teach friends how to pvp or being in noobs because they are just bombs.
- Don’t stand near guards, creatures, delve bosses because they are bombs too.
- Don’t ever stack. Don’t ever soft stack even - Just find a new campaign or log off if you see another same faction player - They could be a purge troll or someone who doesn’t block fast enough who will bring a proc towards you.

Yep plenty of counters so it’s totally balanced. If you fail to do any of the above, it’s on you, and you absolutely deserve a 60k proc on your death sheet… From a tank.

Also no reason at all to be concerned about that new monster set coming out which can add up to 20 seconds to all dots. Nope. Don’t worry that it could work with oil damage / venomous claw (which gets stronger per tick) or whatever else paired with Kynmarchers list of debuffs. Still no reason to slot purge because that would be our fault.

Just play it safe. Stack speed and kite people around a tower solo away from any meaningful objective in cyrodil, blissfully ignorant of any instance of how this actually affects pvp

You’re welcome 🤡

MEBengalsFan2001 · February 2022

I remember people asking for Plaguebreak to actually do something if someone died as it only use to proc off a cleanse. Now that it proc from a death people are complaining about it.

BlossomDead · February 2022

The addition of Dark Convergence and Plaguebreak is simply uninspired as ZOS missed the point of healing/crosshealing being the issue.

Get rid of the OP healing stacking/ticks (multiple healers, pots and self healing) and you will have ball groups down in no time with a simple, well placed Bal ulti, CC or VD. Might also help decrease lag. Simple, effective and swift change.

IMHO the point of fun PvP is not to have unkillable enemies. Most people disengage if they keep trying and see enemies healing back up in no time. Super frustrating experience.

L_Nici · February 2022

Honestly I rarely die to Plaguebreak and I rarely kill with Plaguebreak. The only instance you die to it, is if you have some mastermind, that suddenly purges you while clearly seeing the Plaguebreak inside a zerg. It has a giant indication and if someone is stupid enough to actually purge it, while knowing he or she can't outheal it, thats totally his or her fault.
I also use it offensively on a Necro and almost every alliance knows how to not purge, except AD, because AD has very special needs. Plaguebreak has its glorious moments where you indeed set up a chain reaction and nuke an entire alliance, but most of the time I only use it for the DoT. And again, if you nuke an entire alliance that alliance was faction stacking and is at its own fault then.

Kwoung · February 2022

L_Nici wrote: »

Honestly I rarely die to Plaguebreak and I rarely kill with Plaguebreak. The only instance you die to it, is if you have some mastermind, that suddenly purges you while clearly seeing the Plaguebreak inside a zerg. It has a giant indication and if someone is stupid enough to actually purge it, while knowing he or she can't outheal it, thats totally his or her fault.
I also use it offensively on a Necro and almost every alliance knows how to not purge, except AD, because AD has very special needs. Plaguebreak has its glorious moments where you indeed set up a chain reaction and nuke an entire alliance, but most of the time I only use it for the DoT. And again, if you nuke an entire alliance that alliance was faction stacking and is at its own fault then.

My issue has been more of the cross faction players who now follow everyone around specifically looking for it, and probably know in Discord voice when their friend on the opposite faction cast it, then toss a purge on purpose to blow everyone up. I have been blown up by it many times, not always resulting in death, but NO ONE in my group casts purge and hasn't since the release of that set.

Random enemy hits someone with it and runs away, random guy in your faction no one has ever seen before runs up and purges your group out of the blue... kaboom. Even worst in huge keep fights where it is being cast all over and some traitor/spy/whatever you want to call them just runs around purging right and left and tossing purge synergies down hoping you hit one instead of the Orb/Conduit you meant to. It's crappy gameplay no matter how you cut it and not the fault of some clueless player.

Sandman929 · March 2022

Slot Curse Eater and go kill your own faction. This is intended by ZOS.

Wolfpaw · March 2022

"Friendly" faction players are now using it to troll their own faction, or help guild mates from enemy faction. They remove armor to drop their health and spam cleanse to blow everyone up.

1. Remove cleanse to trigger PB.
2. Drastically increase cost of cleanse skills, some skills increase cost if cast within X seconds.
3. Remove cleanse from Warden Netch.

Tommy_The_Gun · March 2022

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

That would make it kind of useless though, unless they significantly increased the damage of purge. Not everyone in open world runs a purge to even make it proc often enough to make it viable, would make it kind of useless, and way worse than VD. Because the condition of damage on purge only is way more situational than "kill an enemy player"
IMO I think it should be at least equivalent to VD because the intention of the sets are the exact same as VD, to target large groups as stated by zos themselves.
While I admit they did make it as an anti-purge set, that's still not really worth running if it's functionally only meant to target purging zergs since most zergs aren't purging every 2 seconds, usually like once every 8-10 seconds

Problem though is PB set procs on death. You may have it on you and cast some hot (like vigor) and you over heal the PB Dot. But as soon as you die from something else (oil, siege engine, ulti. execute etc) - it procs the Plaguebreak burst chain reaction. This set should not proc when some one dies. It clearly says that it procs "If the plague is removed early". It is badly coded if it procs when some one who has it dies, as the effect was not removed early - a target who has it was removed early. Dying does not remove negative effects. If I die while having Haunting Curse on me, once I re-spawn - I still have Haunting Curse explosion on me.

If ZOS wants to make it anti-ball group set (zerg surfers don't spam purge, ball groups do that, not random solo players) , then they should make DoT part of PB to scale with a group size - so it would deal more damage to grouped players, forcing them either to purge & boom or take away some portion of their healing capability. The burst part of PB should never proc on death. That is what VD is for. Besides, like I have said - dying does not remove/purge negative effects...

What kind of logic is that ? If I have a broken arm, if I die.... I still have a broken arm...

xDeusEJRx · March 2022

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

That would make it kind of useless though, unless they significantly increased the damage of purge. Not everyone in open world runs a purge to even make it proc often enough to make it viable, would make it kind of useless, and way worse than VD. Because the condition of damage on purge only is way more situational than "kill an enemy player"
IMO I think it should be at least equivalent to VD because the intention of the sets are the exact same as VD, to target large groups as stated by zos themselves.
While I admit they did make it as an anti-purge set, that's still not really worth running if it's functionally only meant to target purging zergs since most zergs aren't purging every 2 seconds, usually like once every 8-10 seconds

If ZOS wants to make it anti-ball group set (zerg surfers don't spam purge, ball groups do that, not random solo players) , then they should make DoT part of PB to scale with a group size - so it would deal more damage to grouped players, forcing them either to purge & boom or take away some portion of their healing capability. The burst part of PB should never proc on death. That is what VD is for. Besides, like I have said - dying does not remove/purge negative effects... What kind of logic is that ? If I have a broken arm, if I die.... I still have a broken arm...

Misconception that it's an "anti-ball group set" it's a zerg buster set the same as VD and convergence. They want to take out zergers, zerg surfers and alike. Just because it seems like it's meant to target ball groups, doesn't mean it is. Most of the new sets they want to combat zerging, of course ball groups will be using it against zergs cause it's good against zergs and made intentionally to wipe zergs from ZOS's own words. Not sure why people decided this narrative that this is an "anti-ball group set" when zos themselves they want to take down zergs.
Zerg ≠ ball group. You cant zerg surf a ball group and expect to do well, you can however in a normal zerg group. That's one thing that sets them apart. Ball groups also don't need to be a large group of people, 4 people could be a ball group and mass wipe technically speaking, but zergs are specifically large groups of people. Sure the purge on death might be overtuned but I doubt zos will change it because the set is doing it's function. Which is to punish zergs

Nick1620 · March 2022

<Snip> i remember the times then i was getting one shotted from Hrothgar, procs on me were like 35k- 40k, it tooks for them like 3 month to nerf it and it wasnt like real unbalanced thing like PB, so just if u see someone is using PB against u, just run away or quit the game it works for me just fine

<Snipped for Conspiracy Theories and Misinformation>

davelbier · March 2022

maybe just limit it to infect 4-8 players max....it could still hurt a ball group but would lose the EVERYBODY DIES chain?

finehair · March 2022

The explosion proccing on death is stupid
The proccing on Npc death is beyond stupid. Imagine if VD did that, you could just start a chain reaction that starts in the keep and ends at the resource with the amount of Npc you can stack around

DrSlaughtr · March 2022

Plague should never have been a VD clone. It should have had good individual damage high enough to prevent purge while also applying major and minor defile to everyone it touches. Maybe even throw in 2k heal absorption.

S0Z0H · March 2022

They will nerf these sets when the new pvp sets come out. They base all of this on their math and how new sets balance against these recent ones. They know what works and what doesn't. The reason things hit the way they do is cuz it's by design. They arent that incompetent, they just don't care about what most of you have to say cuz it's always coming from some outraged rando. ZOS is gonna do what they want to do. When the company needs to sell the new DLC, it always comes with some mythic or OP item so that the PVP are forced to buy the new DLC to adjust to the new meta.
That's basically it. THEN you will see a nerf to plaguebreak and dark convergence. Not because they are listening to you , but because it's time to sell the new product. And if the old sets are still OP, then why buy the new product? Hence, the eventual nerf of the old ones and the introduction of the new shiney buffed up item and armors etc

Gargath · January 2023

If you need to nerf Plaguebreak, nerf it only for pvp.

My best choice for PVE paired with Selistrix, Venom and Bow/Bow on a stamplar.
I love this perfect tool for levelling, public dungeons and other activities with a lot of mobs.

Thanks a lot, ZOS, for this set

.