munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

I've noticed a very disturbing thing going on in PvP lately. I'd say that easily more than half the enemies I encounter in pvp run a gimmick build. What is a gimmick build? I'd call it anything that relies heavily on the use of 1 or 2 skills known to be overly powerful.

Bash. The worst offender. Everyone is running 1H/S and spamming bash. All classes do it. It is everywhere.

If I run into a DK he'll be a 1H/S bash spammer who uses talons and bash almost every time. If he's a vampire he'll spam bats while doing talons and bash. If he's not, he'll spam talons and bash and drop standard. Almost every DK I encounter does one of these two.

Mist form or bolt escape. Not being used once...being used 5,6,7 times in a row. I feel like I'm the only player in all of pvp that isn't using one of these two massively overused get of jail free cards. When I die in PvP it isn't because I made a mistake, it's because I've chosen not to play a sorc or become a vamp. Simple as that. With sorc being a popular class and everyone becoming vamps, there aren't many of us left that actually have to stand and fight and deal with the risk/reward of engaging.

AOE roots. With DK and sorc having these as class skills and everyone having access to bombard in the bow line, AOE roots are everywhere. Because dodge roll doesn't give immunity to roots, you end up rolling out of a root into a root, rolling out of that into a root, into another root, into another root...then you run out of stam and die. But you can AOE root too!!?! Of course I can, but how fun are group engagements where everyone is rooted or rolling out of a root the entire fight?

I'm not here to say these are OP or not OP. There are plenty of other threads on that already. My concern is that PvP at the moment lacks any depth. Almost everyone is running a gimmick build.

Whether you agree with me that these are gimmick builds or not is up to you, but next time you PvP, make a mental note of what your opponents are running. I bet you'll see what I'm seeing.

How is this a fun and healthy environment where the repeated use of a handful of skills and mechanics are so heavily overused in comparison to the massive amount of build options available?

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

I've noticed a very disturbing thing going on in PvP lately. I'd say that easily more than half the enemies I encounter in pvp run a gimmick build. What is a gimmick build? I'd call it anything that relies heavily on the use of 1 or 2 skills known to be overly powerful.

Bash. The worst offender. Everyone is running 1H/S and spamming bash. All classes do it. It is everywhere.

If I run into a DK he'll be a 1H/S bash spammer who uses talons and bash almost every time. If he's a vampire he'll spam bats while doing talons and bash. If he's not, he'll spam talons and bash and drop standard. Almost every DK I encounter does one of these two.

Mist form or bolt escape. Not being used once...being used 5,6,7 times in a row. I feel like I'm the only player in all of pvp that isn't using one of these two massively overused get of jail free cards. When I die in PvP it isn't because I made a mistake, it's because I've chosen not to play a sorc or become a vamp. Simple as that. With sorc being a popular class and everyone becoming vamps, there aren't many of us left that actually have to stand and fight and deal with the risk/reward of engaging.

AOE roots. With DK and sorc having these as class skills and everyone having access to bombard in the bow line, AOE roots are everywhere. Because dodge roll doesn't give immunity to roots, you end up rolling out of a root into a root, rolling out of that into a root, into another root, into another root...then you run out of stam and die. But you can AOE root too!!?! Of course I can, but how fun are group engagements where everyone is rooted or rolling out of a root the entire fight?

I'm not here to say these are OP or not OP. There are plenty of other threads on that already. My concern is that PvP at the moment lacks any depth. Almost everyone is running a gimmick build.

Whether you agree with me that these are gimmick builds or not is up to you, but next time you PvP, make a mental note of what your opponents are running. I bet you'll see what I'm seeing.

How is this a fun and healthy environment where the repeated use of a handful of skills and mechanics are so heavily overused in comparison to the massive amount of build options available?

+1

thats what happens when u have little to no mechanics in the game that require skill. it becomes a spamfest of the strongest abilitys. strong effects like a pbae root (just an example) shouldnt be on an anytime ability. make it a situational or reactionary skill instead. lets take talons just as an example. how about if the skill is blindly used on a random target it does a DoT at half dmg of what it currently does. now if it gets used on a target that is out of balance it becomes a DoT at full dmg. now if u used it on a target that has recently used dodge roll it does the full dmg of the dot + it triggers the aoe root effect centered on the target u were hitting.

u can do stuff like that with basically every skill in the game and it will add a complete new layer of depth to the game and make the combat alot more skill based and u wont be perma root spammed cos powerful effects like that will not be on an anytime ability.

note that this is just an example of what is possible to advance the combat in this game. i havent spend more than 2 mins on coming up with the talons example and my idea may cause some imbalances in specific aspects of the game but the basic idea behind it is to put powerful effects on situational or reactionary skills rather than anytimers that are spammable.

I think this game would benefit from cooldown timers being added. Making everything instant cast, but with a cooldown depending on what the skill is. Made SWG great! No sitting there for 5 secs building up an ability so it could go off. Cooldown timers would add in some skill in the game, especially considering there's no macro system supported. Makes ppl think about rotations of skills and what skills to use at what time, instead of just facerolling the keyboard.

cooldowns dont add any skill at all rly. its not hard to manage a couple of timers. what i suggest requires ppl to actually react on dynamic combat situations on the fly within a time window of maybe 1-2 secs. if u miss the time window u lose combat effectiveness or in some cases it might decide the entire fight. this essentially gives good players a huge edge over bads/averages. like its supposed to be.

What you're asking for is akin to that of QTE's(Quick Time Events). With the amount of server lag or lag on a players end, QTE's in an MMO PvP setting just wouldn't work and would frustrate the hell out of ppl. And managing timers, with adding cooldown timers, is MUCH better than what there is now.

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

I've noticed a very disturbing thing going on in PvP lately. I'd say that easily more than half the enemies I encounter in pvp run a gimmick build. What is a gimmick build? I'd call it anything that relies heavily on the use of 1 or 2 skills known to be overly powerful.

Bash. The worst offender. Everyone is running 1H/S and spamming bash. All classes do it. It is everywhere.

If I run into a DK he'll be a 1H/S bash spammer who uses talons and bash almost every time. If he's a vampire he'll spam bats while doing talons and bash. If he's not, he'll spam talons and bash and drop standard. Almost every DK I encounter does one of these two.

Mist form or bolt escape. Not being used once...being used 5,6,7 times in a row. I feel like I'm the only player in all of pvp that isn't using one of these two massively overused get of jail free cards. When I die in PvP it isn't because I made a mistake, it's because I've chosen not to play a sorc or become a vamp. Simple as that. With sorc being a popular class and everyone becoming vamps, there aren't many of us left that actually have to stand and fight and deal with the risk/reward of engaging.

AOE roots. With DK and sorc having these as class skills and everyone having access to bombard in the bow line, AOE roots are everywhere. Because dodge roll doesn't give immunity to roots, you end up rolling out of a root into a root, rolling out of that into a root, into another root, into another root...then you run out of stam and die. But you can AOE root too!!?! Of course I can, but how fun are group engagements where everyone is rooted or rolling out of a root the entire fight?

I'm not here to say these are OP or not OP. There are plenty of other threads on that already. My concern is that PvP at the moment lacks any depth. Almost everyone is running a gimmick build.

Whether you agree with me that these are gimmick builds or not is up to you, but next time you PvP, make a mental note of what your opponents are running. I bet you'll see what I'm seeing.

How is this a fun and healthy environment where the repeated use of a handful of skills and mechanics are so heavily overused in comparison to the massive amount of build options available?

+1

thats what happens when u have little to no mechanics in the game that require skill. it becomes a spamfest of the strongest abilitys. strong effects like a pbae root (just an example) shouldnt be on an anytime ability. make it a situational or reactionary skill instead. lets take talons just as an example. how about if the skill is blindly used on a random target it does a DoT at half dmg of what it currently does. now if it gets used on a target that is out of balance it becomes a DoT at full dmg. now if u used it on a target that has recently used dodge roll it does the full dmg of the dot + it triggers the aoe root effect centered on the target u were hitting.

u can do stuff like that with basically every skill in the game and it will add a complete new layer of depth to the game and make the combat alot more skill based and u wont be perma root spammed cos powerful effects like that will not be on an anytime ability.

note that this is just an example of what is possible to advance the combat in this game. i havent spend more than 2 mins on coming up with the talons example and my idea may cause some imbalances in specific aspects of the game but the basic idea behind it is to put powerful effects on situational or reactionary skills rather than anytimers that are spammable.

I think this game would benefit from cooldown timers being added. Making everything instant cast, but with a cooldown depending on what the skill is. Made SWG great! No sitting there for 5 secs building up an ability so it could go off. Cooldown timers would add in some skill in the game, especially considering there's no macro system supported. Makes ppl think about rotations of skills and what skills to use at what time, instead of just facerolling the keyboard.

cooldowns dont add any skill at all rly. its not hard to manage a couple of timers. what i suggest requires ppl to actually react on dynamic combat situations on the fly within a time window of maybe 1-2 secs. if u miss the time window u lose combat effectiveness or in some cases it might decide the entire fight. this essentially gives good players a huge edge over bads/averages. like its supposed to be.

What you're asking for is akin to that of QTE's(Quick Time Events). With the amount of server lag or lag on a players end, QTE's in an MMO PvP setting just wouldn't work and would frustrate the hell out of ppl. And managing timers, with adding cooldown timers, is MUCH better than what there is now.

it worked perfectly in daoc. lag shouldnt be a factor in regards of combat design. just fix the damn servers instead.

Sure glad you're not in charge of designing or balancing the pvp in this game lol. Lag will ALWAYS be a persistent part of ANY mmo's pvp. Until the time that we get quantum computing and quantum internet, there will ALWAYS be lag. If you then don't take into account a factor that is always there, that affects everyone that takes part in a certain part of the game, how then can you achieve any semblance of balance?? There is just no logic in that.

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

I've noticed a very disturbing thing going on in PvP lately. I'd say that easily more than half the enemies I encounter in pvp run a gimmick build. What is a gimmick build? I'd call it anything that relies heavily on the use of 1 or 2 skills known to be overly powerful.

Bash. The worst offender. Everyone is running 1H/S and spamming bash. All classes do it. It is everywhere.

If I run into a DK he'll be a 1H/S bash spammer who uses talons and bash almost every time. If he's a vampire he'll spam bats while doing talons and bash. If he's not, he'll spam talons and bash and drop standard. Almost every DK I encounter does one of these two.

Mist form or bolt escape. Not being used once...being used 5,6,7 times in a row. I feel like I'm the only player in all of pvp that isn't using one of these two massively overused get of jail free cards. When I die in PvP it isn't because I made a mistake, it's because I've chosen not to play a sorc or become a vamp. Simple as that. With sorc being a popular class and everyone becoming vamps, there aren't many of us left that actually have to stand and fight and deal with the risk/reward of engaging.

AOE roots. With DK and sorc having these as class skills and everyone having access to bombard in the bow line, AOE roots are everywhere. Because dodge roll doesn't give immunity to roots, you end up rolling out of a root into a root, rolling out of that into a root, into another root, into another root...then you run out of stam and die. But you can AOE root too!!?! Of course I can, but how fun are group engagements where everyone is rooted or rolling out of a root the entire fight?

I'm not here to say these are OP or not OP. There are plenty of other threads on that already. My concern is that PvP at the moment lacks any depth. Almost everyone is running a gimmick build.

Whether you agree with me that these are gimmick builds or not is up to you, but next time you PvP, make a mental note of what your opponents are running. I bet you'll see what I'm seeing.

How is this a fun and healthy environment where the repeated use of a handful of skills and mechanics are so heavily overused in comparison to the massive amount of build options available?

+1

thats what happens when u have little to no mechanics in the game that require skill. it becomes a spamfest of the strongest abilitys. strong effects like a pbae root (just an example) shouldnt be on an anytime ability. make it a situational or reactionary skill instead. lets take talons just as an example. how about if the skill is blindly used on a random target it does a DoT at half dmg of what it currently does. now if it gets used on a target that is out of balance it becomes a DoT at full dmg. now if u used it on a target that has recently used dodge roll it does the full dmg of the dot + it triggers the aoe root effect centered on the target u were hitting.

u can do stuff like that with basically every skill in the game and it will add a complete new layer of depth to the game and make the combat alot more skill based and u wont be perma root spammed cos powerful effects like that will not be on an anytime ability.

note that this is just an example of what is possible to advance the combat in this game. i havent spend more than 2 mins on coming up with the talons example and my idea may cause some imbalances in specific aspects of the game but the basic idea behind it is to put powerful effects on situational or reactionary skills rather than anytimers that are spammable.

I think this game would benefit from cooldown timers being added. Making everything instant cast, but with a cooldown depending on what the skill is. Made SWG great! No sitting there for 5 secs building up an ability so it could go off. Cooldown timers would add in some skill in the game, especially considering there's no macro system supported. Makes ppl think about rotations of skills and what skills to use at what time, instead of just facerolling the keyboard.

cooldowns dont add any skill at all rly. its not hard to manage a couple of timers. what i suggest requires ppl to actually react on dynamic combat situations on the fly within a time window of maybe 1-2 secs. if u miss the time window u lose combat effectiveness or in some cases it might decide the entire fight. this essentially gives good players a huge edge over bads/averages. like its supposed to be.

What you're asking for is akin to that of QTE's(Quick Time Events). With the amount of server lag or lag on a players end, QTE's in an MMO PvP setting just wouldn't work and would frustrate the hell out of ppl. And managing timers, with adding cooldown timers, is MUCH better than what there is now.

it worked perfectly in daoc. lag shouldnt be a factor in regards of combat design. just fix the damn servers instead.

Sure glad you're not in charge of designing or balancing the pvp in this game lol. Lag will ALWAYS be a persistent part of ANY mmo's pvp. Until the time that we get quantum computing and quantum internet, there will ALWAYS be lag. If you then don't take into account a factor that is always there, that affects everyone that takes part in a certain part of the game, how then can you achieve any semblance of balance?? There is just no logic in that.

u shouldnt have more than 100-150 ping to the server atm. and thats cos it is located in the wrong country. once the server is in the right location ping shouldnt be higher than 40 for anyone. in very large fights it might go up by 20-30. if it goes any higher than that its due to faulty netcode. this is low enough to make it neglectible. using "lag" as a reason why the game has to be for braindead zombies is an extremely poor excuse for something that has been done 15 years ago already. oh yea, dont ever lecture me about networking issues EVER again. ive studied that *** so im pretty sure i know much more about it than you

Did I ever "lecture" you on networking issues at all?? And looks like their netcode is faulty because I did the ping search via command prompt and mine is at 85. Have decent internet as well. 30 mb/ps down, 5 mb/ps up. Have a decent rig as well(won't go into specs right atm unless needed). I haven't met an MMO OR FPS yet that didn't have lag issues once more than 100 ppl appeared on your screen.

And this MMO isn't the exception. Unless you are living like right next to the server(generally speaking of course) your ping will never be at 40. Also appears as though you don't know as much as you think you do about networking, cause this has ALWAYS been the case with online gaming and hasn't changed yet. If needed, I can ask a buddy of mine(Head Network System Administrator for a US Defense Department Sub-contractor) what he thinks about what you just said, in regards to you knowing about networking.