PVP Meta: Gimmick builds

Wahee

I've noticed a very disturbing thing going on in PvP lately. I'd say that easily more than half the enemies I encounter in pvp run a gimmick build. What is a gimmick build? I'd call it anything that relies heavily on the use of 1 or 2 skills known to be overly powerful.

Bash. The worst offender. Everyone is running 1H/S and spamming bash. All classes do it. It is everywhere.

If I run into a DK he'll be a 1H/S bash spammer who uses talons and bash almost every time. If he's a vampire he'll spam bats while doing talons and bash. If he's not, he'll spam talons and bash and drop standard. Almost every DK I encounter does one of these two.

Mist form or bolt escape. Not being used once...being used 5,6,7 times in a row. I feel like I'm the only player in all of pvp that isn't using one of these two massively overused get of jail free cards. When I die in PvP it isn't because I made a mistake, it's because I've chosen not to play a sorc or become a vamp. Simple as that. With sorc being a popular class and everyone becoming vamps, there aren't many of us left that actually have to stand and fight and deal with the risk/reward of engaging.

AOE roots. With DK and sorc having these as class skills and everyone having access to bombard in the bow line, AOE roots are everywhere. Because dodge roll doesn't give immunity to roots, you end up rolling out of a root into a root, rolling out of that into a root, into another root, into another root...then you run out of stam and die. But you can AOE root too!!?! Of course I can, but how fun are group engagements where everyone is rooted or rolling out of a root the entire fight?

I'm not here to say these are OP or not OP. There are plenty of other threads on that already. My concern is that PvP at the moment lacks any depth. Almost everyone is running a gimmick build.

Whether you agree with me that these are gimmick builds or not is up to you, but next time you PvP, make a mental note of what your opponents are running. I bet you'll see what I'm seeing.

How is this a fun and healthy environment where the repeated use of a handful of skills and mechanics are so heavily overused in comparison to the massive amount of build options available?

Bloodvax

Could not begin to agree with you enough on bash. Its not remotely skill based.

Ghenra

ZOS should balance this crap. The game is good and RvR is nice, but the unbalance and the zergfest is killing TESO.

Cydone

No need to come up with a new term for it. It's called FOTM(Flavor of the month). This happens in EVERY MMO with PvP. And it will always happen in MMO's that offer pvp. People will always try to get the best setup there is, according to them, and if it works extremely well, other players will copy it.

Wahee

Cydone wrote: »

No need to come up with a new term for it. It's called FOTM(Flavor of the month). This happens in EVERY MMO with PvP. And it will always happen in MMO's that offer pvp. People will always try to get the best setup there is, according to them, and if it works extremely well, other players will copy it.

I'm familiar with FOTM. I specifically didn't use that word because I believe what is happening in ESO is something different. The things I listed aren't builds, or classes, they are single abilities. Bash spam isn't a build. BE/mist spam isn't a build. It would be one thing if a specific set of 5 skills was FOTM and everyone ran that spec. In ESO people are massively overusing 1 or 2 skills, not a build. I've never been bothered much by FOTM builds. Im bothered by the gimmicks in ESO because they aren't builds, they are single abilities that are spammed heavily in combat to the detriment of interesting gameplay.

Cydone

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

No need to come up with a new term for it. It's called FOTM(Flavor of the month). This happens in EVERY MMO with PvP. And it will always happen in MMO's that offer pvp. People will always try to get the best setup there is, according to them, and if it works extremely well, other players will copy it.

I'm familiar with FOTM. I specifically didn't use that word because I believe what is happening in ESO is something different. The things I listed aren't builds, or classes, they are single abilities. Bash spam isn't a build. BE/mist spam isn't a build. It would be one thing if a specific set of 5 skills was FOTM and everyone ran that spec. In ESO people are massively overusing 1 or 2 skills, not a build. I've never been bothered much by FOTM builds. Im bothered by the gimmicks in ESO because they aren't builds, they are single abilities that are spammed heavily in combat to the detriment of interesting gameplay.

It's not JUST bash spam. It takes investing skill points to get it to where you can bash spam. Then it takes having enchantments for stamina and medium armor for stam regen. Those things combined would be considered a "build". Same thing with mist form/bat swarm. Takes a combination of things to be able to do them well....ie...a build. So, FOTM would be the correct term.

fullforce

In all games pvp all games will have gimmick mode. whether it be skills or build. if they fix one another will erupt. either be a gimmick or dont pvp that simple

Wahee

Cydone wrote: »

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

No need to come up with a new term for it. It's called FOTM(Flavor of the month). This happens in EVERY MMO with PvP. And it will always happen in MMO's that offer pvp. People will always try to get the best setup there is, according to them, and if it works extremely well, other players will copy it.

I'm familiar with FOTM. I specifically didn't use that word because I believe what is happening in ESO is something different. The things I listed aren't builds, or classes, they are single abilities. Bash spam isn't a build. BE/mist spam isn't a build. It would be one thing if a specific set of 5 skills was FOTM and everyone ran that spec. In ESO people are massively overusing 1 or 2 skills, not a build. I've never been bothered much by FOTM builds. Im bothered by the gimmicks in ESO because they aren't builds, they are single abilities that are spammed heavily in combat to the detriment of interesting gameplay.

It's not JUST bash spam. It takes investing skill points to get it to where you can bash spam. Then it takes having enchantments for stamina and medium armor for stam regen. Those things combined would be considered a "build". Same thing with mist form/bat swarm. Takes a combination of things to be able to do them well....ie...a build. So, FOTM would be the correct term.

You can call it whatever you like. What you call it doesn't change the result, which is shallow pvp gameplay.

Cydone

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

No need to come up with a new term for it. It's called FOTM(Flavor of the month). This happens in EVERY MMO with PvP. And it will always happen in MMO's that offer pvp. People will always try to get the best setup there is, according to them, and if it works extremely well, other players will copy it.

I'm familiar with FOTM. I specifically didn't use that word because I believe what is happening in ESO is something different. The things I listed aren't builds, or classes, they are single abilities. Bash spam isn't a build. BE/mist spam isn't a build. It would be one thing if a specific set of 5 skills was FOTM and everyone ran that spec. In ESO people are massively overusing 1 or 2 skills, not a build. I've never been bothered much by FOTM builds. Im bothered by the gimmicks in ESO because they aren't builds, they are single abilities that are spammed heavily in combat to the detriment of interesting gameplay.

It's not JUST bash spam. It takes investing skill points to get it to where you can bash spam. Then it takes having enchantments for stamina and medium armor for stam regen. Those things combined would be considered a "build". Same thing with mist form/bat swarm. Takes a combination of things to be able to do them well....ie...a build. So, FOTM would be the correct term.

You can call it whatever you like. What you call it doesn't change the result, which is shallow pvp gameplay.

Dude you're talking about EVERY mmo's PvP lol. They all have what is considered to be a "best build" for each class. Only one I can think of that DIDN'T have that was NGE SWG. There were pretty much no "best builds" as long as you had some skill to throw behind it.

Wahee

Cydone wrote: »

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

No need to come up with a new term for it. It's called FOTM(Flavor of the month). This happens in EVERY MMO with PvP. And it will always happen in MMO's that offer pvp. People will always try to get the best setup there is, according to them, and if it works extremely well, other players will copy it.

I'm familiar with FOTM. I specifically didn't use that word because I believe what is happening in ESO is something different. The things I listed aren't builds, or classes, they are single abilities. Bash spam isn't a build. BE/mist spam isn't a build. It would be one thing if a specific set of 5 skills was FOTM and everyone ran that spec. In ESO people are massively overusing 1 or 2 skills, not a build. I've never been bothered much by FOTM builds. Im bothered by the gimmicks in ESO because they aren't builds, they are single abilities that are spammed heavily in combat to the detriment of interesting gameplay.

It's not JUST bash spam. It takes investing skill points to get it to where you can bash spam. Then it takes having enchantments for stamina and medium armor for stam regen. Those things combined would be considered a "build". Same thing with mist form/bat swarm. Takes a combination of things to be able to do them well....ie...a build. So, FOTM would be the correct term.

You can call it whatever you like. What you call it doesn't change the result, which is shallow pvp gameplay.

Dude you're talking about EVERY mmo's PvP lol. They all have what is considered to be a "best build" for each class. Only one I can think of that DIDN'T have that was NGE SWG. There were pretty much no "best builds" as long as you had some skill to throw behind it.

Sigh. I don't think we're hearing each other. I've played plenty of MMO's with FOTM classes and specs. The problem in ESO right now is that the "build" that is FOTM revolves around a small handful of abilities being used over and over and over. There are hundreds of abilities in this game and the majority of pvpers are ignoring them completely because they can succeed by spamming gimmicky abilities over and over mindlessly. There is a difference.

Take bash spam and the fact that it takes skill point investment and bash jewelry to be the most effective. Well sure it does, but does the fact that you can trait and design a character around right/left clicking your way to victory make for interesting gameplay?

FOTM always exists, yea I know. In this game though it exists in the most boring way possible. Thats my point.

Cydone

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

No need to come up with a new term for it. It's called FOTM(Flavor of the month). This happens in EVERY MMO with PvP. And it will always happen in MMO's that offer pvp. People will always try to get the best setup there is, according to them, and if it works extremely well, other players will copy it.

I'm familiar with FOTM. I specifically didn't use that word because I believe what is happening in ESO is something different. The things I listed aren't builds, or classes, they are single abilities. Bash spam isn't a build. BE/mist spam isn't a build. It would be one thing if a specific set of 5 skills was FOTM and everyone ran that spec. In ESO people are massively overusing 1 or 2 skills, not a build. I've never been bothered much by FOTM builds. Im bothered by the gimmicks in ESO because they aren't builds, they are single abilities that are spammed heavily in combat to the detriment of interesting gameplay.

It's not JUST bash spam. It takes investing skill points to get it to where you can bash spam. Then it takes having enchantments for stamina and medium armor for stam regen. Those things combined would be considered a "build". Same thing with mist form/bat swarm. Takes a combination of things to be able to do them well....ie...a build. So, FOTM would be the correct term.

You can call it whatever you like. What you call it doesn't change the result, which is shallow pvp gameplay.

Dude you're talking about EVERY mmo's PvP lol. They all have what is considered to be a "best build" for each class. Only one I can think of that DIDN'T have that was NGE SWG. There were pretty much no "best builds" as long as you had some skill to throw behind it.

Sigh. I don't think we're hearing each other. I've played plenty of MMO's with FOTM classes and specs. The problem in ESO right now is that the "build" that is FOTM revolves around a small handful of abilities being used over and over and over. There are hundreds of abilities in this game and the majority of pvpers are ignoring them completely because they can succeed by spamming gimmicky abilities over and over mindlessly. There is a difference.

Take bash spam and the fact that it takes skill point investment and bash jewelry to be the most effective. Well sure it does, but does the fact that you can trait and design a character around right/left clicking your way to victory make for interesting gameplay?

FOTM always exists, yea I know. In this game though it exists in the most boring way possible. Thats my point.

lao

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

I've noticed a very disturbing thing going on in PvP lately. I'd say that easily more than half the enemies I encounter in pvp run a gimmick build. What is a gimmick build? I'd call it anything that relies heavily on the use of 1 or 2 skills known to be overly powerful.

Bash. The worst offender. Everyone is running 1H/S and spamming bash. All classes do it. It is everywhere.

If I run into a DK he'll be a 1H/S bash spammer who uses talons and bash almost every time. If he's a vampire he'll spam bats while doing talons and bash. If he's not, he'll spam talons and bash and drop standard. Almost every DK I encounter does one of these two.

Mist form or bolt escape. Not being used once...being used 5,6,7 times in a row. I feel like I'm the only player in all of pvp that isn't using one of these two massively overused get of jail free cards. When I die in PvP it isn't because I made a mistake, it's because I've chosen not to play a sorc or become a vamp. Simple as that. With sorc being a popular class and everyone becoming vamps, there aren't many of us left that actually have to stand and fight and deal with the risk/reward of engaging.

AOE roots. With DK and sorc having these as class skills and everyone having access to bombard in the bow line, AOE roots are everywhere. Because dodge roll doesn't give immunity to roots, you end up rolling out of a root into a root, rolling out of that into a root, into another root, into another root...then you run out of stam and die. But you can AOE root too!!?! Of course I can, but how fun are group engagements where everyone is rooted or rolling out of a root the entire fight?

I'm not here to say these are OP or not OP. There are plenty of other threads on that already. My concern is that PvP at the moment lacks any depth. Almost everyone is running a gimmick build.

Whether you agree with me that these are gimmick builds or not is up to you, but next time you PvP, make a mental note of what your opponents are running. I bet you'll see what I'm seeing.

How is this a fun and healthy environment where the repeated use of a handful of skills and mechanics are so heavily overused in comparison to the massive amount of build options available?

+1

thats what happens when u have little to no mechanics in the game that require skill. it becomes a spamfest of the strongest abilitys. strong effects like a pbae root (just an example) shouldnt be on an anytime ability. make it a situational or reactionary skill instead. lets take talons just as an example. how about if the skill is blindly used on a random target it does a DoT at half dmg of what it currently does. now if it gets used on a target that is out of balance it becomes a DoT at full dmg. now if u used it on a target that has recently used dodge roll it does the full dmg of the dot + it triggers the aoe root effect centered on the target u were hitting.

u can do stuff like that with basically every skill in the game and it will add a complete new layer of depth to the game and make the combat alot more skill based and u wont be perma root spammed cos powerful effects like that will not be on an anytime ability.

note that this is just an example of what is possible to advance the combat in this game. i havent spend more than 2 mins on coming up with the talons example and my idea may cause some imbalances in specific aspects of the game but the basic idea behind it is to put powerful effects on situational or reactionary skills rather than anytimers that are spammable.

Cydone

lao wrote: »

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

I've noticed a very disturbing thing going on in PvP lately. I'd say that easily more than half the enemies I encounter in pvp run a gimmick build. What is a gimmick build? I'd call it anything that relies heavily on the use of 1 or 2 skills known to be overly powerful.

Bash. The worst offender. Everyone is running 1H/S and spamming bash. All classes do it. It is everywhere.

If I run into a DK he'll be a 1H/S bash spammer who uses talons and bash almost every time. If he's a vampire he'll spam bats while doing talons and bash. If he's not, he'll spam talons and bash and drop standard. Almost every DK I encounter does one of these two.

Mist form or bolt escape. Not being used once...being used 5,6,7 times in a row. I feel like I'm the only player in all of pvp that isn't using one of these two massively overused get of jail free cards. When I die in PvP it isn't because I made a mistake, it's because I've chosen not to play a sorc or become a vamp. Simple as that. With sorc being a popular class and everyone becoming vamps, there aren't many of us left that actually have to stand and fight and deal with the risk/reward of engaging.

AOE roots. With DK and sorc having these as class skills and everyone having access to bombard in the bow line, AOE roots are everywhere. Because dodge roll doesn't give immunity to roots, you end up rolling out of a root into a root, rolling out of that into a root, into another root, into another root...then you run out of stam and die. But you can AOE root too!!?! Of course I can, but how fun are group engagements where everyone is rooted or rolling out of a root the entire fight?

I'm not here to say these are OP or not OP. There are plenty of other threads on that already. My concern is that PvP at the moment lacks any depth. Almost everyone is running a gimmick build.

Whether you agree with me that these are gimmick builds or not is up to you, but next time you PvP, make a mental note of what your opponents are running. I bet you'll see what I'm seeing.

How is this a fun and healthy environment where the repeated use of a handful of skills and mechanics are so heavily overused in comparison to the massive amount of build options available?

+1

thats what happens when u have little to no mechanics in the game that require skill. it becomes a spamfest of the strongest abilitys. strong effects like a pbae root (just an example) shouldnt be on an anytime ability. make it a situational or reactionary skill instead. lets take talons just as an example. how about if the skill is blindly used on a random target it does a DoT at half dmg of what it currently does. now if it gets used on a target that is out of balance it becomes a DoT at full dmg. now if u used it on a target that has recently used dodge roll it does the full dmg of the dot + it triggers the aoe root effect centered on the target u were hitting.

u can do stuff like that with basically every skill in the game and it will add a complete new layer of depth to the game and make the combat alot more skill based and u wont be perma root spammed cos powerful effects like that will not be on an anytime ability.

note that this is just an example of what is possible to advance the combat in this game. i havent spend more than 2 mins on coming up with the talons example and my idea may cause some imbalances in specific aspects of the game but the basic idea behind it is to put powerful effects on situational or reactionary skills rather than anytimers that are spammable.

I think this game would benefit from cooldown timers being added. Making everything instant cast, but with a cooldown depending on what the skill is. Made SWG great! No sitting there for 5 secs building up an ability so it could go off. Cooldown timers would add in some skill in the game, especially considering there's no macro system supported. Makes ppl think about rotations of skills and what skills to use at what time, instead of just facerolling the keyboard.

Kolache

I doubt cooldowns will be added, but it seems like not having them results in trying to balance things with one arm tied behind your back. At least it will force them to get more in touch with resource management balance, I guess.

lao

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

I've noticed a very disturbing thing going on in PvP lately. I'd say that easily more than half the enemies I encounter in pvp run a gimmick build. What is a gimmick build? I'd call it anything that relies heavily on the use of 1 or 2 skills known to be overly powerful.

Bash. The worst offender. Everyone is running 1H/S and spamming bash. All classes do it. It is everywhere.

If I run into a DK he'll be a 1H/S bash spammer who uses talons and bash almost every time. If he's a vampire he'll spam bats while doing talons and bash. If he's not, he'll spam talons and bash and drop standard. Almost every DK I encounter does one of these two.

Mist form or bolt escape. Not being used once...being used 5,6,7 times in a row. I feel like I'm the only player in all of pvp that isn't using one of these two massively overused get of jail free cards. When I die in PvP it isn't because I made a mistake, it's because I've chosen not to play a sorc or become a vamp. Simple as that. With sorc being a popular class and everyone becoming vamps, there aren't many of us left that actually have to stand and fight and deal with the risk/reward of engaging.

AOE roots. With DK and sorc having these as class skills and everyone having access to bombard in the bow line, AOE roots are everywhere. Because dodge roll doesn't give immunity to roots, you end up rolling out of a root into a root, rolling out of that into a root, into another root, into another root...then you run out of stam and die. But you can AOE root too!!?! Of course I can, but how fun are group engagements where everyone is rooted or rolling out of a root the entire fight?

I'm not here to say these are OP or not OP. There are plenty of other threads on that already. My concern is that PvP at the moment lacks any depth. Almost everyone is running a gimmick build.

Whether you agree with me that these are gimmick builds or not is up to you, but next time you PvP, make a mental note of what your opponents are running. I bet you'll see what I'm seeing.

How is this a fun and healthy environment where the repeated use of a handful of skills and mechanics are so heavily overused in comparison to the massive amount of build options available?

+1

thats what happens when u have little to no mechanics in the game that require skill. it becomes a spamfest of the strongest abilitys. strong effects like a pbae root (just an example) shouldnt be on an anytime ability. make it a situational or reactionary skill instead. lets take talons just as an example. how about if the skill is blindly used on a random target it does a DoT at half dmg of what it currently does. now if it gets used on a target that is out of balance it becomes a DoT at full dmg. now if u used it on a target that has recently used dodge roll it does the full dmg of the dot + it triggers the aoe root effect centered on the target u were hitting.

u can do stuff like that with basically every skill in the game and it will add a complete new layer of depth to the game and make the combat alot more skill based and u wont be perma root spammed cos powerful effects like that will not be on an anytime ability.

note that this is just an example of what is possible to advance the combat in this game. i havent spend more than 2 mins on coming up with the talons example and my idea may cause some imbalances in specific aspects of the game but the basic idea behind it is to put powerful effects on situational or reactionary skills rather than anytimers that are spammable.

I think this game would benefit from cooldown timers being added. Making everything instant cast, but with a cooldown depending on what the skill is. Made SWG great! No sitting there for 5 secs building up an ability so it could go off. Cooldown timers would add in some skill in the game, especially considering there's no macro system supported. Makes ppl think about rotations of skills and what skills to use at what time, instead of just facerolling the keyboard.

cooldowns dont add any skill at all rly. its not hard to manage a couple of timers. what i suggest requires ppl to actually react on dynamic combat situations on the fly within a time window of maybe 1-2 secs. if u miss the time window u lose combat effectiveness or in some cases it might decide the entire fight. this essentially gives good players a huge edge over bads/averages. like its supposed to be.

Cydone

lao wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

I've noticed a very disturbing thing going on in PvP lately. I'd say that easily more than half the enemies I encounter in pvp run a gimmick build. What is a gimmick build? I'd call it anything that relies heavily on the use of 1 or 2 skills known to be overly powerful.

Bash. The worst offender. Everyone is running 1H/S and spamming bash. All classes do it. It is everywhere.

If I run into a DK he'll be a 1H/S bash spammer who uses talons and bash almost every time. If he's a vampire he'll spam bats while doing talons and bash. If he's not, he'll spam talons and bash and drop standard. Almost every DK I encounter does one of these two.

Mist form or bolt escape. Not being used once...being used 5,6,7 times in a row. I feel like I'm the only player in all of pvp that isn't using one of these two massively overused get of jail free cards. When I die in PvP it isn't because I made a mistake, it's because I've chosen not to play a sorc or become a vamp. Simple as that. With sorc being a popular class and everyone becoming vamps, there aren't many of us left that actually have to stand and fight and deal with the risk/reward of engaging.

AOE roots. With DK and sorc having these as class skills and everyone having access to bombard in the bow line, AOE roots are everywhere. Because dodge roll doesn't give immunity to roots, you end up rolling out of a root into a root, rolling out of that into a root, into another root, into another root...then you run out of stam and die. But you can AOE root too!!?! Of course I can, but how fun are group engagements where everyone is rooted or rolling out of a root the entire fight?

I'm not here to say these are OP or not OP. There are plenty of other threads on that already. My concern is that PvP at the moment lacks any depth. Almost everyone is running a gimmick build.

Whether you agree with me that these are gimmick builds or not is up to you, but next time you PvP, make a mental note of what your opponents are running. I bet you'll see what I'm seeing.

How is this a fun and healthy environment where the repeated use of a handful of skills and mechanics are so heavily overused in comparison to the massive amount of build options available?

+1

thats what happens when u have little to no mechanics in the game that require skill. it becomes a spamfest of the strongest abilitys. strong effects like a pbae root (just an example) shouldnt be on an anytime ability. make it a situational or reactionary skill instead. lets take talons just as an example. how about if the skill is blindly used on a random target it does a DoT at half dmg of what it currently does. now if it gets used on a target that is out of balance it becomes a DoT at full dmg. now if u used it on a target that has recently used dodge roll it does the full dmg of the dot + it triggers the aoe root effect centered on the target u were hitting.

u can do stuff like that with basically every skill in the game and it will add a complete new layer of depth to the game and make the combat alot more skill based and u wont be perma root spammed cos powerful effects like that will not be on an anytime ability.

note that this is just an example of what is possible to advance the combat in this game. i havent spend more than 2 mins on coming up with the talons example and my idea may cause some imbalances in specific aspects of the game but the basic idea behind it is to put powerful effects on situational or reactionary skills rather than anytimers that are spammable.

I think this game would benefit from cooldown timers being added. Making everything instant cast, but with a cooldown depending on what the skill is. Made SWG great! No sitting there for 5 secs building up an ability so it could go off. Cooldown timers would add in some skill in the game, especially considering there's no macro system supported. Makes ppl think about rotations of skills and what skills to use at what time, instead of just facerolling the keyboard.

cooldowns dont add any skill at all rly. its not hard to manage a couple of timers. what i suggest requires ppl to actually react on dynamic combat situations on the fly within a time window of maybe 1-2 secs. if u miss the time window u lose combat effectiveness or in some cases it might decide the entire fight. this essentially gives good players a huge edge over bads/averages. like its supposed to be.

What you're asking for is akin to that of QTE's(Quick Time Events). With the amount of server lag or lag on a players end, QTE's in an MMO PvP setting just wouldn't work and would frustrate the hell out of ppl. And managing timers, with adding cooldown timers, is MUCH better than what there is now.

jbaslarub17_ESO

People who only spam bash always die to those who take the time to counter it. Same is true for bolt escape. Who cares if it is popular, play the way you want or leave.

lao

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

I've noticed a very disturbing thing going on in PvP lately. I'd say that easily more than half the enemies I encounter in pvp run a gimmick build. What is a gimmick build? I'd call it anything that relies heavily on the use of 1 or 2 skills known to be overly powerful.

Bash. The worst offender. Everyone is running 1H/S and spamming bash. All classes do it. It is everywhere.

If I run into a DK he'll be a 1H/S bash spammer who uses talons and bash almost every time. If he's a vampire he'll spam bats while doing talons and bash. If he's not, he'll spam talons and bash and drop standard. Almost every DK I encounter does one of these two.

Mist form or bolt escape. Not being used once...being used 5,6,7 times in a row. I feel like I'm the only player in all of pvp that isn't using one of these two massively overused get of jail free cards. When I die in PvP it isn't because I made a mistake, it's because I've chosen not to play a sorc or become a vamp. Simple as that. With sorc being a popular class and everyone becoming vamps, there aren't many of us left that actually have to stand and fight and deal with the risk/reward of engaging.

AOE roots. With DK and sorc having these as class skills and everyone having access to bombard in the bow line, AOE roots are everywhere. Because dodge roll doesn't give immunity to roots, you end up rolling out of a root into a root, rolling out of that into a root, into another root, into another root...then you run out of stam and die. But you can AOE root too!!?! Of course I can, but how fun are group engagements where everyone is rooted or rolling out of a root the entire fight?

I'm not here to say these are OP or not OP. There are plenty of other threads on that already. My concern is that PvP at the moment lacks any depth. Almost everyone is running a gimmick build.

Whether you agree with me that these are gimmick builds or not is up to you, but next time you PvP, make a mental note of what your opponents are running. I bet you'll see what I'm seeing.

How is this a fun and healthy environment where the repeated use of a handful of skills and mechanics are so heavily overused in comparison to the massive amount of build options available?

+1

thats what happens when u have little to no mechanics in the game that require skill. it becomes a spamfest of the strongest abilitys. strong effects like a pbae root (just an example) shouldnt be on an anytime ability. make it a situational or reactionary skill instead. lets take talons just as an example. how about if the skill is blindly used on a random target it does a DoT at half dmg of what it currently does. now if it gets used on a target that is out of balance it becomes a DoT at full dmg. now if u used it on a target that has recently used dodge roll it does the full dmg of the dot + it triggers the aoe root effect centered on the target u were hitting.

u can do stuff like that with basically every skill in the game and it will add a complete new layer of depth to the game and make the combat alot more skill based and u wont be perma root spammed cos powerful effects like that will not be on an anytime ability.

note that this is just an example of what is possible to advance the combat in this game. i havent spend more than 2 mins on coming up with the talons example and my idea may cause some imbalances in specific aspects of the game but the basic idea behind it is to put powerful effects on situational or reactionary skills rather than anytimers that are spammable.

I think this game would benefit from cooldown timers being added. Making everything instant cast, but with a cooldown depending on what the skill is. Made SWG great! No sitting there for 5 secs building up an ability so it could go off. Cooldown timers would add in some skill in the game, especially considering there's no macro system supported. Makes ppl think about rotations of skills and what skills to use at what time, instead of just facerolling the keyboard.

cooldowns dont add any skill at all rly. its not hard to manage a couple of timers. what i suggest requires ppl to actually react on dynamic combat situations on the fly within a time window of maybe 1-2 secs. if u miss the time window u lose combat effectiveness or in some cases it might decide the entire fight. this essentially gives good players a huge edge over bads/averages. like its supposed to be.

What you're asking for is akin to that of QTE's(Quick Time Events). With the amount of server lag or lag on a players end, QTE's in an MMO PvP setting just wouldn't work and would frustrate the hell out of ppl. And managing timers, with adding cooldown timers, is MUCH better than what there is now.

it worked perfectly in daoc. lag shouldnt be a factor in regards of combat design. just fix the damn servers instead.

Chryos

Didnt they have professional world ranked pvp'ers to thoroughly test pvp? Seems like if stuff like this existed, it'd would have had to have been brought up and balanced already.

Is anyone sure they just arent getting their butts kicked by someone far better than them? Sometimes people tend to think they are or should be better than they actually are.

In all the OP PvP posts, I see pretty good counter arguments. I'm sure some skills could be broken, but it seems like it also could just be bad tactics too. (like trying to zerg rush when someone is mainly out of position.

Just asking, because I wonder when my group stunlocks a player and i kill them with arrows, am i guilty of shallow playing too?

Another example as a Vamp NB, I can CC three players at once with stuns and interupts, and range them to death, if you try and zerg rush me, well, you know what happens then, but I cant spam it multiple times. Seems like my skills work for me without making me feel like I am cheating. Am I wrong?

LadyChaos

talking about builds that spam 2 abilities (per the criteria in OP)... out of 5 abilities... way over-thinking why 2/5 of the abilities are the "core" of a build.

IMO get off the "only skilll build is underground secret squirrel, no one has ever thought of it before build". People just play how they want to, it's not much more complicated than that.

Cydone

lao wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

I've noticed a very disturbing thing going on in PvP lately. I'd say that easily more than half the enemies I encounter in pvp run a gimmick build. What is a gimmick build? I'd call it anything that relies heavily on the use of 1 or 2 skills known to be overly powerful.

Bash. The worst offender. Everyone is running 1H/S and spamming bash. All classes do it. It is everywhere.

If I run into a DK he'll be a 1H/S bash spammer who uses talons and bash almost every time. If he's a vampire he'll spam bats while doing talons and bash. If he's not, he'll spam talons and bash and drop standard. Almost every DK I encounter does one of these two.

Mist form or bolt escape. Not being used once...being used 5,6,7 times in a row. I feel like I'm the only player in all of pvp that isn't using one of these two massively overused get of jail free cards. When I die in PvP it isn't because I made a mistake, it's because I've chosen not to play a sorc or become a vamp. Simple as that. With sorc being a popular class and everyone becoming vamps, there aren't many of us left that actually have to stand and fight and deal with the risk/reward of engaging.

AOE roots. With DK and sorc having these as class skills and everyone having access to bombard in the bow line, AOE roots are everywhere. Because dodge roll doesn't give immunity to roots, you end up rolling out of a root into a root, rolling out of that into a root, into another root, into another root...then you run out of stam and die. But you can AOE root too!!?! Of course I can, but how fun are group engagements where everyone is rooted or rolling out of a root the entire fight?

I'm not here to say these are OP or not OP. There are plenty of other threads on that already. My concern is that PvP at the moment lacks any depth. Almost everyone is running a gimmick build.

Whether you agree with me that these are gimmick builds or not is up to you, but next time you PvP, make a mental note of what your opponents are running. I bet you'll see what I'm seeing.

How is this a fun and healthy environment where the repeated use of a handful of skills and mechanics are so heavily overused in comparison to the massive amount of build options available?

+1

thats what happens when u have little to no mechanics in the game that require skill. it becomes a spamfest of the strongest abilitys. strong effects like a pbae root (just an example) shouldnt be on an anytime ability. make it a situational or reactionary skill instead. lets take talons just as an example. how about if the skill is blindly used on a random target it does a DoT at half dmg of what it currently does. now if it gets used on a target that is out of balance it becomes a DoT at full dmg. now if u used it on a target that has recently used dodge roll it does the full dmg of the dot + it triggers the aoe root effect centered on the target u were hitting.

u can do stuff like that with basically every skill in the game and it will add a complete new layer of depth to the game and make the combat alot more skill based and u wont be perma root spammed cos powerful effects like that will not be on an anytime ability.

note that this is just an example of what is possible to advance the combat in this game. i havent spend more than 2 mins on coming up with the talons example and my idea may cause some imbalances in specific aspects of the game but the basic idea behind it is to put powerful effects on situational or reactionary skills rather than anytimers that are spammable.

I think this game would benefit from cooldown timers being added. Making everything instant cast, but with a cooldown depending on what the skill is. Made SWG great! No sitting there for 5 secs building up an ability so it could go off. Cooldown timers would add in some skill in the game, especially considering there's no macro system supported. Makes ppl think about rotations of skills and what skills to use at what time, instead of just facerolling the keyboard.

cooldowns dont add any skill at all rly. its not hard to manage a couple of timers. what i suggest requires ppl to actually react on dynamic combat situations on the fly within a time window of maybe 1-2 secs. if u miss the time window u lose combat effectiveness or in some cases it might decide the entire fight. this essentially gives good players a huge edge over bads/averages. like its supposed to be.

What you're asking for is akin to that of QTE's(Quick Time Events). With the amount of server lag or lag on a players end, QTE's in an MMO PvP setting just wouldn't work and would frustrate the hell out of ppl. And managing timers, with adding cooldown timers, is MUCH better than what there is now.

it worked perfectly in daoc. lag shouldnt be a factor in regards of combat design. just fix the damn servers instead.

Sure glad you're not in charge of designing or balancing the pvp in this game lol. Lag will ALWAYS be a persistent part of ANY mmo's pvp. Until the time that we get quantum computing and quantum internet, there will ALWAYS be lag. If you then don't take into account a factor that is always there, that affects everyone that takes part in a certain part of the game, how then can you achieve any semblance of balance?? There is just no logic in that.

lao

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

I've noticed a very disturbing thing going on in PvP lately. I'd say that easily more than half the enemies I encounter in pvp run a gimmick build. What is a gimmick build? I'd call it anything that relies heavily on the use of 1 or 2 skills known to be overly powerful.

Bash. The worst offender. Everyone is running 1H/S and spamming bash. All classes do it. It is everywhere.

If I run into a DK he'll be a 1H/S bash spammer who uses talons and bash almost every time. If he's a vampire he'll spam bats while doing talons and bash. If he's not, he'll spam talons and bash and drop standard. Almost every DK I encounter does one of these two.

Mist form or bolt escape. Not being used once...being used 5,6,7 times in a row. I feel like I'm the only player in all of pvp that isn't using one of these two massively overused get of jail free cards. When I die in PvP it isn't because I made a mistake, it's because I've chosen not to play a sorc or become a vamp. Simple as that. With sorc being a popular class and everyone becoming vamps, there aren't many of us left that actually have to stand and fight and deal with the risk/reward of engaging.

AOE roots. With DK and sorc having these as class skills and everyone having access to bombard in the bow line, AOE roots are everywhere. Because dodge roll doesn't give immunity to roots, you end up rolling out of a root into a root, rolling out of that into a root, into another root, into another root...then you run out of stam and die. But you can AOE root too!!?! Of course I can, but how fun are group engagements where everyone is rooted or rolling out of a root the entire fight?

I'm not here to say these are OP or not OP. There are plenty of other threads on that already. My concern is that PvP at the moment lacks any depth. Almost everyone is running a gimmick build.

Whether you agree with me that these are gimmick builds or not is up to you, but next time you PvP, make a mental note of what your opponents are running. I bet you'll see what I'm seeing.

How is this a fun and healthy environment where the repeated use of a handful of skills and mechanics are so heavily overused in comparison to the massive amount of build options available?

+1

thats what happens when u have little to no mechanics in the game that require skill. it becomes a spamfest of the strongest abilitys. strong effects like a pbae root (just an example) shouldnt be on an anytime ability. make it a situational or reactionary skill instead. lets take talons just as an example. how about if the skill is blindly used on a random target it does a DoT at half dmg of what it currently does. now if it gets used on a target that is out of balance it becomes a DoT at full dmg. now if u used it on a target that has recently used dodge roll it does the full dmg of the dot + it triggers the aoe root effect centered on the target u were hitting.

u can do stuff like that with basically every skill in the game and it will add a complete new layer of depth to the game and make the combat alot more skill based and u wont be perma root spammed cos powerful effects like that will not be on an anytime ability.

note that this is just an example of what is possible to advance the combat in this game. i havent spend more than 2 mins on coming up with the talons example and my idea may cause some imbalances in specific aspects of the game but the basic idea behind it is to put powerful effects on situational or reactionary skills rather than anytimers that are spammable.

I think this game would benefit from cooldown timers being added. Making everything instant cast, but with a cooldown depending on what the skill is. Made SWG great! No sitting there for 5 secs building up an ability so it could go off. Cooldown timers would add in some skill in the game, especially considering there's no macro system supported. Makes ppl think about rotations of skills and what skills to use at what time, instead of just facerolling the keyboard.

cooldowns dont add any skill at all rly. its not hard to manage a couple of timers. what i suggest requires ppl to actually react on dynamic combat situations on the fly within a time window of maybe 1-2 secs. if u miss the time window u lose combat effectiveness or in some cases it might decide the entire fight. this essentially gives good players a huge edge over bads/averages. like its supposed to be.

What you're asking for is akin to that of QTE's(Quick Time Events). With the amount of server lag or lag on a players end, QTE's in an MMO PvP setting just wouldn't work and would frustrate the hell out of ppl. And managing timers, with adding cooldown timers, is MUCH better than what there is now.

it worked perfectly in daoc. lag shouldnt be a factor in regards of combat design. just fix the damn servers instead.

Sure glad you're not in charge of designing or balancing the pvp in this game lol. Lag will ALWAYS be a persistent part of ANY mmo's pvp. Until the time that we get quantum computing and quantum internet, there will ALWAYS be lag. If you then don't take into account a factor that is always there, that affects everyone that takes part in a certain part of the game, how then can you achieve any semblance of balance?? There is just no logic in that.

u shouldnt have more than 100-150 ping to the server atm. and thats cos it is located in the wrong country. once the server is in the right location ping shouldnt be higher than 40 for anyone. in very large fights it might go up by 20-30. if it goes any higher than that its due to faulty netcode. this is low enough to make it neglectible. using "lag" as a reason why the game has to be for braindead zombies is an extremely poor excuse for something that has been done 15 years ago already. oh yea, dont ever lecture me about networking issues EVER again. ive studied that *** so im pretty sure i know much more about it than you

Cydone

lao wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

I've noticed a very disturbing thing going on in PvP lately. I'd say that easily more than half the enemies I encounter in pvp run a gimmick build. What is a gimmick build? I'd call it anything that relies heavily on the use of 1 or 2 skills known to be overly powerful.

Bash. The worst offender. Everyone is running 1H/S and spamming bash. All classes do it. It is everywhere.

If I run into a DK he'll be a 1H/S bash spammer who uses talons and bash almost every time. If he's a vampire he'll spam bats while doing talons and bash. If he's not, he'll spam talons and bash and drop standard. Almost every DK I encounter does one of these two.

Mist form or bolt escape. Not being used once...being used 5,6,7 times in a row. I feel like I'm the only player in all of pvp that isn't using one of these two massively overused get of jail free cards. When I die in PvP it isn't because I made a mistake, it's because I've chosen not to play a sorc or become a vamp. Simple as that. With sorc being a popular class and everyone becoming vamps, there aren't many of us left that actually have to stand and fight and deal with the risk/reward of engaging.

AOE roots. With DK and sorc having these as class skills and everyone having access to bombard in the bow line, AOE roots are everywhere. Because dodge roll doesn't give immunity to roots, you end up rolling out of a root into a root, rolling out of that into a root, into another root, into another root...then you run out of stam and die. But you can AOE root too!!?! Of course I can, but how fun are group engagements where everyone is rooted or rolling out of a root the entire fight?

I'm not here to say these are OP or not OP. There are plenty of other threads on that already. My concern is that PvP at the moment lacks any depth. Almost everyone is running a gimmick build.

Whether you agree with me that these are gimmick builds or not is up to you, but next time you PvP, make a mental note of what your opponents are running. I bet you'll see what I'm seeing.

How is this a fun and healthy environment where the repeated use of a handful of skills and mechanics are so heavily overused in comparison to the massive amount of build options available?

+1

thats what happens when u have little to no mechanics in the game that require skill. it becomes a spamfest of the strongest abilitys. strong effects like a pbae root (just an example) shouldnt be on an anytime ability. make it a situational or reactionary skill instead. lets take talons just as an example. how about if the skill is blindly used on a random target it does a DoT at half dmg of what it currently does. now if it gets used on a target that is out of balance it becomes a DoT at full dmg. now if u used it on a target that has recently used dodge roll it does the full dmg of the dot + it triggers the aoe root effect centered on the target u were hitting.

u can do stuff like that with basically every skill in the game and it will add a complete new layer of depth to the game and make the combat alot more skill based and u wont be perma root spammed cos powerful effects like that will not be on an anytime ability.

note that this is just an example of what is possible to advance the combat in this game. i havent spend more than 2 mins on coming up with the talons example and my idea may cause some imbalances in specific aspects of the game but the basic idea behind it is to put powerful effects on situational or reactionary skills rather than anytimers that are spammable.

I think this game would benefit from cooldown timers being added. Making everything instant cast, but with a cooldown depending on what the skill is. Made SWG great! No sitting there for 5 secs building up an ability so it could go off. Cooldown timers would add in some skill in the game, especially considering there's no macro system supported. Makes ppl think about rotations of skills and what skills to use at what time, instead of just facerolling the keyboard.

cooldowns dont add any skill at all rly. its not hard to manage a couple of timers. what i suggest requires ppl to actually react on dynamic combat situations on the fly within a time window of maybe 1-2 secs. if u miss the time window u lose combat effectiveness or in some cases it might decide the entire fight. this essentially gives good players a huge edge over bads/averages. like its supposed to be.

What you're asking for is akin to that of QTE's(Quick Time Events). With the amount of server lag or lag on a players end, QTE's in an MMO PvP setting just wouldn't work and would frustrate the hell out of ppl. And managing timers, with adding cooldown timers, is MUCH better than what there is now.

it worked perfectly in daoc. lag shouldnt be a factor in regards of combat design. just fix the damn servers instead.

Sure glad you're not in charge of designing or balancing the pvp in this game lol. Lag will ALWAYS be a persistent part of ANY mmo's pvp. Until the time that we get quantum computing and quantum internet, there will ALWAYS be lag. If you then don't take into account a factor that is always there, that affects everyone that takes part in a certain part of the game, how then can you achieve any semblance of balance?? There is just no logic in that.

u shouldnt have more than 100-150 ping to the server atm. and thats cos it is located in the wrong country. once the server is in the right location ping shouldnt be higher than 40 for anyone. in very large fights it might go up by 20-30. if it goes any higher than that its due to faulty netcode. this is low enough to make it neglectible. using "lag" as a reason why the game has to be for braindead zombies is an extremely poor excuse for something that has been done 15 years ago already. oh yea, dont ever lecture me about networking issues EVER again. ive studied that *** so im pretty sure i know much more about it than you

Did I ever "lecture" you on networking issues at all?? And looks like their netcode is faulty because I did the ping search via command prompt and mine is at 85. Have decent internet as well. 30 mb/ps down, 5 mb/ps up. Have a decent rig as well(won't go into specs right atm unless needed). I haven't met an MMO OR FPS yet that didn't have lag issues once more than 100 ppl appeared on your screen.

And this MMO isn't the exception. Unless you are living like right next to the server(generally speaking of course) your ping will never be at 40. Also appears as though you don't know as much as you think you do about networking, cause this has ALWAYS been the case with online gaming and hasn't changed yet. If needed, I can ask a buddy of mine(Head Network System Administrator for a US Defense Department Sub-contractor) what he thinks about what you just said, in regards to you knowing about networking.

lao

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Cydone wrote: »

lao wrote: »

munch.daveb14_ESO wrote: »

I've noticed a very disturbing thing going on in PvP lately. I'd say that easily more than half the enemies I encounter in pvp run a gimmick build. What is a gimmick build? I'd call it anything that relies heavily on the use of 1 or 2 skills known to be overly powerful.

Bash. The worst offender. Everyone is running 1H/S and spamming bash. All classes do it. It is everywhere.

If I run into a DK he'll be a 1H/S bash spammer who uses talons and bash almost every time. If he's a vampire he'll spam bats while doing talons and bash. If he's not, he'll spam talons and bash and drop standard. Almost every DK I encounter does one of these two.

Mist form or bolt escape. Not being used once...being used 5,6,7 times in a row. I feel like I'm the only player in all of pvp that isn't using one of these two massively overused get of jail free cards. When I die in PvP it isn't because I made a mistake, it's because I've chosen not to play a sorc or become a vamp. Simple as that. With sorc being a popular class and everyone becoming vamps, there aren't many of us left that actually have to stand and fight and deal with the risk/reward of engaging.

AOE roots. With DK and sorc having these as class skills and everyone having access to bombard in the bow line, AOE roots are everywhere. Because dodge roll doesn't give immunity to roots, you end up rolling out of a root into a root, rolling out of that into a root, into another root, into another root...then you run out of stam and die. But you can AOE root too!!?! Of course I can, but how fun are group engagements where everyone is rooted or rolling out of a root the entire fight?

I'm not here to say these are OP or not OP. There are plenty of other threads on that already. My concern is that PvP at the moment lacks any depth. Almost everyone is running a gimmick build.

Whether you agree with me that these are gimmick builds or not is up to you, but next time you PvP, make a mental note of what your opponents are running. I bet you'll see what I'm seeing.

How is this a fun and healthy environment where the repeated use of a handful of skills and mechanics are so heavily overused in comparison to the massive amount of build options available?

+1

thats what happens when u have little to no mechanics in the game that require skill. it becomes a spamfest of the strongest abilitys. strong effects like a pbae root (just an example) shouldnt be on an anytime ability. make it a situational or reactionary skill instead. lets take talons just as an example. how about if the skill is blindly used on a random target it does a DoT at half dmg of what it currently does. now if it gets used on a target that is out of balance it becomes a DoT at full dmg. now if u used it on a target that has recently used dodge roll it does the full dmg of the dot + it triggers the aoe root effect centered on the target u were hitting.

u can do stuff like that with basically every skill in the game and it will add a complete new layer of depth to the game and make the combat alot more skill based and u wont be perma root spammed cos powerful effects like that will not be on an anytime ability.

note that this is just an example of what is possible to advance the combat in this game. i havent spend more than 2 mins on coming up with the talons example and my idea may cause some imbalances in specific aspects of the game but the basic idea behind it is to put powerful effects on situational or reactionary skills rather than anytimers that are spammable.

I think this game would benefit from cooldown timers being added. Making everything instant cast, but with a cooldown depending on what the skill is. Made SWG great! No sitting there for 5 secs building up an ability so it could go off. Cooldown timers would add in some skill in the game, especially considering there's no macro system supported. Makes ppl think about rotations of skills and what skills to use at what time, instead of just facerolling the keyboard.

cooldowns dont add any skill at all rly. its not hard to manage a couple of timers. what i suggest requires ppl to actually react on dynamic combat situations on the fly within a time window of maybe 1-2 secs. if u miss the time window u lose combat effectiveness or in some cases it might decide the entire fight. this essentially gives good players a huge edge over bads/averages. like its supposed to be.

What you're asking for is akin to that of QTE's(Quick Time Events). With the amount of server lag or lag on a players end, QTE's in an MMO PvP setting just wouldn't work and would frustrate the hell out of ppl. And managing timers, with adding cooldown timers, is MUCH better than what there is now.

it worked perfectly in daoc. lag shouldnt be a factor in regards of combat design. just fix the damn servers instead.

Sure glad you're not in charge of designing or balancing the pvp in this game lol. Lag will ALWAYS be a persistent part of ANY mmo's pvp. Until the time that we get quantum computing and quantum internet, there will ALWAYS be lag. If you then don't take into account a factor that is always there, that affects everyone that takes part in a certain part of the game, how then can you achieve any semblance of balance?? There is just no logic in that.

u shouldnt have more than 100-150 ping to the server atm. and thats cos it is located in the wrong country. once the server is in the right location ping shouldnt be higher than 40 for anyone. in very large fights it might go up by 20-30. if it goes any higher than that its due to faulty netcode. this is low enough to make it neglectible. using "lag" as a reason why the game has to be for braindead zombies is an extremely poor excuse for something that has been done 15 years ago already. oh yea, dont ever lecture me about networking issues EVER again. ive studied that *** so im pretty sure i know much more about it than you

Did I ever "lecture" you on networking issues at all?? And looks like their netcode is faulty because I did the ping search via command prompt and mine is at 85. Have decent internet as well. 30 mb/ps down, 5 mb/ps up. Have a decent rig as well(won't go into specs right atm unless needed). I haven't met an MMO OR FPS yet that didn't have lag issues once more than 100 ppl appeared on your screen.

And this MMO isn't the exception. Unless you are living like right next to the server(generally speaking of course) your ping will never be at 40. Also appears as though you don't know as much as you think you do about networking, cause this has ALWAYS been the case with online gaming and hasn't changed yet. If needed, I can ask a buddy of mine(Head Network System Administrator for a US Defense Department Sub-contractor) what he thinks about what you just said, in regards to you knowing about networking.

ofc server location makes a difference, so does amount of ppl on the screen. however it shouldnt have a big impact if the netcode is proper. in DAoC f.e. 100 ppl wouldnt do much to your ping at all. back in the days ur fps would go to *** cos pc´s back then couldnt handle that. if u never had 40 ping in an mmo then ur connection obviously isnt as good as u think. then again u said u live in the states and US always had 3rd world internet. (no offense)

ur up/down ratio also has nothing to do with your ping (unless we´re talking about analog modem connections) its the infrastrucutre that matters, how good the connection between the different hops is. also how many hops are used to route u to the server. in DFO (which had its servers ~25km away from me i had a ping of 17. in DFUW it was 35-50.

it is absolutely possible to factor ping out in an mmo if a) the netcode is proper and b) u live in a proper location. the only times i ever have a ping >80 is when playing on a server located in US. in that case its ~110 (if server is at east coast, ~130 when its in chicago area, ~170 when its at west coast)

we´re not talking about an fps or an rts here where 100 ping is actually alot. in an mmo its pretty much neglectible and should never be used as an excuse why the game doesnt support skillbased combat.