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Rest in Peace Sorcerer, No Hope in U36 Combat Preview
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Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »MetallicMonk wrote: »Class has been dead, they're just erasing it from memory these days.
If sorcs are dead, then where are magicka necros and nb? There are always fotm classes and sorcerer was one of them for a long time. Just last patch everyone and their grandma were running stamsorcs with crazy burst combos and mobility, being top tier in both pvp and pve with magicka close behind. Still one of the strongest classes in pve and decent in pvp btw. Now, when was the last time you saw non bomber mag nb and necros? Probably, a few years ago as those were at bottom tier for a while.
It's clear you haven't done any PvP since probably summerset or morrowind.
Magblade is currently A tier minimum (especially melee magblade), they are literally everywhere in cyrodiil this patch. The 2 specs I am running this patch are a gank magblade that doesn't use a damage proc set and it still outperforms most stamblades in that role and a pure dd stamden that has insane AoE burst and really good survivability. NB is almost as common in pvp as warden this patch.
As for magcros, they are also B+ tier or higher as they still have their convergence bombing and plenty of healing and mitigation and are also very common in cyrodiil and bgs.
Stamsorc last patch was HARD CARRIED by savage werewolf being bugged to also work at range when it shouldn't as well as ticking more frequently than it was supposed to and crystal weapon being overtuned when used at range as well. The class itself was/is in such a bad spot that without both of those factors, the class didn't exist anywhere outside of large groups that also carried the class, it was so hard carried by those 2 things that even magsorc was relying on that same stamina based set up to perform in pvp. That is NOT a class that is strong or top tier, that is a bugged set that was hard carrying a class and masking its completely lackluster kit.
The only thing magnb has is ganking and bombing, if you start building the class in a way any other magicka class played you would notice how weak it is compare to others, only beaten in uselessness by necromancers since they only have melee bombing going for them. What make magicka sorcerer worse than their nb counterpart? Even more predictable dodgeable burst, unreliable mobility via shade, balance between survivability, sustain and damage far worse than sorc. Very rarely i see nb, which contributes to overall team performance in bg or getting reliable kills in cyro. What sets make it competitive to meta classes and put it so high for you? Because i can hardly imagine it being better than stam nb or warden in most scenarios.
Savage werewolf was good last patch not only for sorcerer, any range spec could run it and get just about the same results. What made sorcerer dangerous is mobility via streak allowed to go full damage + insane burst with crystal weapons, bound armaments, curse and overload/db. You can still build something similar and get results close to top performance of current meta, it’s just not comparable to fotm classes like dk and warden, but more in line with others.
magblade has so much more than that, especially melee magblade. Plenty of people are out there X'ing consistently on magblade which cannot be said for sorc (especially magsorc). I fail to see how a class that has access to multiple gap creation abilities, utility such as major evasion, major and minor expedition, maim, as well as strong damage with free passive damage buffs, strong reliable healing including HoTs can be as bad as you are claiming.
- Offering matches plars HtD for healing done and that is before its mending buff is taken into account
- Refreshing path provides major expedition ontop of a strong HoT that matches plars cleansing ritual for healing as well as providing minor endurance and intellect
- Concealed provides a unique +10% damage done buff that stacks with all other buffs as well as minor expedition (matching sorcs mobility)
- Blur has major evasion (20% AoE mitigation), snare removal/immunity and reduces the cost of dodge roll by up to 100%
- Shade provides maim (+5% mitigation) and a teleport that works vertically as well as horizontally
- Merc resolve deals over 1.5 times the base damage that every other delayed burst ability deals and also adds up to 300 raw weapon/spell damage, it also cannot be purged and can be timed to fire when you want making it very easy to line up with other abilities and not dependent on matching a countdown timer
- Incap causes enemies to take additional 20% damage from all damage sources, stuns and gives resources back on LA/HA against any enemy with a status effect on them
- has a reliable class execute that is either ranged or has a heal attached to it.
The class has so much going for it, especially compared to magsorc which has
- a spammable with a cast time that can be interrupted and easily dodged and is also tied to horrendous rng to actually deal significant damage making lining up burst combos very unreliable
- no class HoT that PASSIVELY heals
- has a delayed heal that can be easily interrupted and when it is, locks the skill for 3 seconds and is a flat heal that tool tips for the values that other class heals heal for after battle spirit is applied, or the other class heal that is tied to a pet that has 20k health and is always running off and getting itself killed in siege or by gankers that leaves sorc without a heal, the summon also locks the skill if interrupted again, leaving the class without a heal
- the classes teleport is better over flat open land, but in close quarters or any verticality it becomes very clunky, often over shooting the target or catching on a step meaning there's no distance gained, it also requires LoS to reach its destination, shade can be used through any and all LoS. It is also considered a gap closer so it suffers from every lag issue and positional desync issue in the game. It is also the only activated ability that has a ramping cost to cast it multiple times.
- sorcs delayed burst in curse can be purged, has the longest timer out of every delayed burst in the game with a total timer of 12 seconds (3 seconds longer than even deep fissure, some perspective here for you warden mains), is single target and doesn't provide any other buffs/debuffs/effects outside of a negligible AoE proc that is healed off by a single vigor tick.
- the class is forced to choose between major and minor expedition unless it runs outside skills such as RaT or elude.
- The class is also forced to run an outside skill to get snare removal unless it gives up its best class ability for the other morph which has no stun and has been repeatedly nerfed over the years to the point no one runs it outside of troll builds.
- The class HoT requires you to actively deal critical damage to get a heal that is only just above what all other class HoTs grant passively over their duration, yes it has major brut/sorc, but every other class has those buffs on much better abilities.
- sorc has no inherent in class access to different mitigation buffs outside of minor protection attached to a skill that is rarely used as it doesn't do enough for the class.
- Negate has almost zero effect on stamina specs, which is really harsh considering how strong stamina is compared to mag in pvp.
- mines got nerfed to only proc 1 per 2 seconds making it THE most expensive "spammable" in the game at a cost of 5400 magicka for damage that barely matches most melee spammables.
- the execute requires the target to be practically dead (20% health) before it procs and that is if it is not purged, blocked or roll dodged or just flat out doesn't trigger because of lag. it also requires another source of damage to land on the target to trigger this proc meaning that if they heal back up over that 20% health threshold before it procs, it doesn't proc at all and is essentially a pathetic spammable that only deals 30% damage compared to the worst spammables in the game.
- Overload makes it so that your LA deal the equivalent of a regular spammable, too bad the travel speed is so damn slow that even the slowest roll dodger can avoid it easily, especially if it's used at range.
- Atro, which was the best overall ultimate, had its cost almost doubled and duration nearly halved because of how broken oakensoul was in U34. The ability was fine up until oakensoul was introduced, yet it apparently needed a nerf alongside oakensoul, despite dk's who had 100% uptime on corrosive which makes them practically immortal, provides a full heal and resource sustain on activation thanks to the passives as well as becoming insane damage dealers though ignoring 100% of mitigation was fine to keep as it was and didn't need adjusting alongside oaken.
You also completely ignored the fact that crystal weapon and bound armaments got gutted alongside savage werewolf getting fixed. So those "OP" abilities were all nerfed and the builds completely gutted and not viable anymore.
Crystal weapon is worse than crushing weapon now, bound armaments has the same issue merc resolve has but instead of landing all its damage in one single burst, it spreads it across multiple projectiles that are so closely cast together they still get avoided by a single dodge roll anyway, curse has its issues as I have stated above as does overload. You can literally build a ranged plar and it will perform better than a sorc due to better defensive options that allow it to tank/heal through damage instead of attempt to avoid it, as well as having better more reliable burst that also inflicts multiple status effects and provides utility to the group. This is a melee class that performs better at sorcs niche of ranged damage dealer than sorc does while still keeping its tankiness for if it gets caught out in up close combat.6 -
Didgerion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Turtle_Bot wrote: »Turtle_Bot wrote: »acastanza_ESO wrote: »Another post about how weak the sorcerer is.... Hmm. I killed a lot of time on BG and did not notice that the sorcerer was weak. The sorcerer, as it was the most powerful range class, has remained so. No one can catch up with the sorcerer in terms of speed or damage in ranged combat. Maybe you have some problems??? Ping? Arms?? Keyboard?? Mouse? I don't see that this class would be rotten . I just left the bg and saw how the necromancer sucked 2-15 and the sorcerer dragged 15-3 .....
Powerful spam crystal ability. Curse, daggers and a range finisher. No other class has that much burst damage in ranged combat.
And teleportation is just not an honest skill. The strongest ability in the game. With which the sorcerer can catch up, run away, stun through block and dodges and deal damage. If you want, I can give with my necro the second and 3 branches of the necromancer for this ability)))
Nb and and the sorcerer are almost immortal if played correctly. At the same time, they do not need to have 100500+ armor and life as the same necromancer and warden.
So many snot. I leave the bg where the sorcerer makes 10-15 murders. And here you write the sorcerer is weak. Oh well.
Streak? Everyone has CC immunity constantly now, and a gap closer with longer range than streak. If you think streak is OP then again, you're playing people who have no idea what they're doing.
Dark deal is an interruptible channel. Anyone with half a brain stops the sorc from getting this off.
Nope, you cannot interrupt dark deal while the target is CC immune. And as you stated in your own reply everyone is constantly cc immune. So now go figure out how do you interrupt dark deal exactly.
And that goes for any channeled ability. It is a broken mechanics that ZOS never bothered to fix.
Easy, bash interrupts through CC immunity while in melee range (always used to bash CC immune res attempts) and for interrupting from range, crushing shock, toppling charge, the other morph of venomous arrow (bow skill) also all interrupt through cc immunity as they apply interrupt.
Also, when those abilities are interrupted, they hard lock the skill (greyed out) for 3 seconds meaning when it gets interrupted, the sorcerer is left with no healing for a full 3 seconds. No other class has this sort of punishment on their defensive kit and ALL other classes also get insane amounts of passive healing over time through reliable class HoTs that don't require them to be on the offense and also deal critical damage.
Telling you one more time you cannot interrupt dark deal while the target is CC immune.
Once the grey out is gone the player continues to be CC immune and during that that time they can cast dark deal in your face and you can do nothing about it.
The first thing I do on my stam sorc when I get stunned is to break free and dark deal. No one can interrupt that.
Interrupting resurrections and siege burning have no immunity. You can interrupt that at any time ranged or not.
I literally gave you spells and mechanics that interrupt through CC immunity, including an example of it working by using bash to interrupt a CC immune res attempt. If that's not enough try bashing or interrupting a plar casting beam or jabs or a sorc casting frags, you can interrupt every cast of that skill through CC immunity as well, with no cooldown or immunity to prevent that casting from being interrupted continuously. It's the same with dark deal.
Just because the players you dark deal in front of are so bad that they don't bother to bash or use the interrupt skills I mentioned or have too much delay/lag to prevent your cast doesn't mean that those skills don't interrupt a CC immune player casting an ability.
There's a reason sorcs always use streak to CC and make distance before trying to cast dark deal/dark conversion or resummon their pets.
None of the skills you've mentioned can be interrupted while the target is cc immune. Just jump into the game man and give it a try. I play my magsorc on daily basis and no one can interrupt my hard casted frags while I'm cc immune (I don't use dark conversion since I need stamina for vigor) and no one can interrupt my dark-deal on my stamsorc while he's cc immune either.
As for buffing the sorc, I really don't know what to say. It is a ranged class and if you make it overpowered you leave melee classes no chance to fight them back. (And it will be overpowered in the hands of pro players, who can squeeze everything out of the class like uninterruptable dark-exchange or knock-backs with long animation)
I guess what I'm trying to say is that ZOS needs to fix broken mechanics first then buff the class.Edited by Didgerion on 20 September 2022 17:402 -
Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
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Interrupting resurrections and siege burning have no immunity. You can interrupt that at any time ranged or not.
seige burning is in fact uninterruptable when cc immune when it shouldn't be
this is why troll tanks can stop outpost/keep seiges on smaller groups
rezzing is interruptable at any time.
anyways, i hope people understand that if they overtune a class it will lead to nerfs later on.Edited by Dr_Con on 20 September 2022 18:321 -
MetallicMonk wrote: »MetallicMonk wrote: »Class has been dead, they're just erasing it from memory these days.
If sorcs are dead, then where are magicka necros and nb? There are always fotm classes and sorcerer was one of them for a long time. Just last patch everyone and their grandma were running stamsorcs with crazy burst combos and mobility, being top tier in both pvp and pve with magicka close behind. Still one of the strongest classes in pve and decent in pvp btw. Now, when was the last time you saw non bomber mag nb and necros? Probably, a few years ago as those were at bottom tier for a while.
Dog what lol magicka nightblades are currently and have been strong for like the last 2-3 patches, it's just not ranged magblade.
Stamsorcs were getting carried by savage ww being overtuned/bugged and crystal weapon being way overtuned, if that's your justification then I guess you'll fit in with the rest of the clueless players on the forums.
The Stamsorc players were mainly getting carried by Savage Werewolf, tying a lot of your damage to Light Attacks. The Crystal Weapon nerf & rework compared to the original one we had from Stonethorn-Ascending Tide is by far the most impactful. To put it in context on the same build Crystal Weapon currently is about 20% of your damage on Stamsorc (Bow/Bow) compared to about 35% of your damage in High Isle.
Stamsorc is in quite a good spot, altough personally I'd say it could use a small buff to its offense. Magsorc however is doing pretty awful.Stamina Sorcerer Main, guiding the decrepit melee fans to achieve basedness and become a bowsorc.
Comprehensive Stamsorc Guides on my socials:
YouTube: Marrochir
Reddit: Morwe_Haldkan1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You can interrupt rez attempts through CC immunity. You can not interrupt skills like Dark Deal (or siege etc.) through CC immunity. Someone in here wrote this is a bug - it's not. It's totally stupid IMO, but works exactly as the devs want it to (it was in the patch notes when they introduced this change). Source: Years of spamming Crushing Shock in PvP.
The new mythic- I don't see the big benefit for a PvP magsorc. What are you going to do with your stamina pool? Vigour? Dark Conversion instead of Dark Deal? Sure, some players will make great builds with it. It will also help players with bad stamina management to survive a bit longer - and to not get better at stamina management.
If you are a mag sorc using Dark Deal, you are literally doing it wrong. The whole point of the skill on a mag sorc is to gain resources by converting your stam pool into mag.
So yeah, the new mythic will allow you to do that more reliably without worrying about needing stam for block and dodge, which also means more healing from the skill too. And yeah, also allows more reliable use of vigor for a heal. It's a mythic with a lot of potential on mag sorc.Edited by jaws343 on 21 September 2022 23:412 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Perhaps we just have different definitions of "up to par." Currently topping the (single target) DPS charts in most PvE content. So far as defensive abilities go, it seems fine to me. Same with healing. In PvE content, at least, the issue is not that it's a bad class to tank on but rather that there's no reason to bring a sorcerer tank, though there are places where you could very easily substitute one (e.g. templar) healer in a raid for a sorcerer healer.
Are we playing the same game? Groups don't even bother bringing Sorcs to trials like vDSR anymore because their damage is poor, they provide nothing important to the group (nightblade brings crit now), and they're a vitality liability for getting sniped by Taleria's matrons.
For PVE, Dragonknight, Necro and Templar are better in every way. Nightblade and Warden have their own issues, but at least get some playtime as healers this patch.Edited by WrathOfInnos on 22 September 2022 00:462 -
Kory✭✭✭✭Exaggerated feedback from players, then comes the overbuffing from the devs, then the nerf around the corner.2 -
Troodon80✭✭✭✭✭
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Groups don't bring them for one reason: they lack cleave. You can see this in dummy parses and purely single target fights (Yolnahkriin, Olms, Craglorn Trials, etc.) versus content like Rockgrove where cleave is key.WrathOfInnos wrote: »Are we playing the same game? Groups don't even bother bringing Sorcs to trials like vDSR anymore because their damage is poor, they provide nothing important to the group (nightblade brings crit now), and they're a vitality liability for getting sniped by Taleria's matrons.
For PVE, Dragonknight, Necro and Templar are better in every way. Nightblade and Warden have their own issues, but at least get some playtime as healers this patch.
(Asylum)
(Rockgrove)
(Trial atronach)
I do wonder if we are playing the same game. Doesn't seem like a dead class to me unless you're aiming for score-pushing specific content (like Rockgrove).
As an aside, Matron Frost Bolt damage:
I would be quite a bit more worried about this poor necro at the top than the sorc near the bottom. Indeed, are we playing the same game?
@Troodon80 PC | EU
Guild: N&S
Hand of Alkosh | Dawnbringer | Immortal Redeemer | Tick Tock Tormentor | Gryphon Heart
Deep Dive into Dreadsail Reef Mechanics1 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Indeed, are we playing the same game?
No actually, the vast majority of the issues we're talking about with Sorc are in PVP, not PVE. As far as I know no one is claiming that Sorc isn't doing fine in PVE (although we could make the argument that pushing so much of sorc's damage into pets specifically through maintaining 6 second uptimes on daedric prey effectively pidgeonholing them into Zookeeper builds that lots of people hate isn't exactly ideal). But PVP is a very different game and in PVP Sorc is bottom of the barrel.
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WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Troodon80 You're right that Sorcs can do well against a target dummy and any bosses that act like one. This quickly falls apart in most real encounters, where poor pet AI and other holes in the toolkit are exposed.
I think it is a real problem that they are trash in all the trials released since 2019.
I don't really need to look at the stats, I played a Sorc in vDSR from U34 PTS until post U35 and experienced its decline firsthand. If you need data then look at the leaderboard, where only 2/100 players were Sorcerer. I know more than one of us in that top group would have liked to play Sorc, but didn't want to hold the team back.
https://www.esologs.com/zone/rankings/16
I have no explanation for your frost bolt screenshot, strange RNG. It's well-established across many groups and hundreds of runs that they hit Sorcerers 2-3X more frequently than other classes, often sniping them with 4+ frost bolts during deluge. It seems to have something to do with pets, but removing all pets (including Storm Atro) from Sorc is not really an option.4 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Exaggerated feedback from players, then comes the overbuffing from the devs, then the nerf around the corner.
Some of us are asking for some small, targeted changes that have direct parity with the abilities of other classes.
Add a debuff on curse, like every other class delayed damage ability.
Add an armor debuff mechanic to Crystal frags. The proc is pretty punishing and we don’t have class access to breach or sundered.
Add a class buff to the hardened ward morph. Minor protection would help because we don’t have a viable class heal without a double barred pet that dies all of the time. We also don’t have class access to the buff.
Some max stat sets that have parity with damage sets that hand out 1000+ spell damage would be nice. Time has buried the max stat play style.
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Dr_Con✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Exaggerated feedback from players, then comes the overbuffing from the devs, then the nerf around the corner.
Some of us are asking for some small, targeted changes that have direct parity with the abilities of other classes.
Add a debuff on curse, like every other class delayed damage ability.
Add an armor debuff mechanic to Crystal frags. The proc is pretty punishing and we don’t have class access to breach or sundered.
Add a class buff to the hardened ward morph. Minor protection would help because we don’t have a viable class heal without a double barred pet that dies all of the time. We also don’t have class access to the buff.
Some max stat sets that have parity with damage sets that hand out 1000+ spell damage would be nice. Time has buried the max stat play style.
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daedric prey increases damage your pets do. you can argue for longer period where it's active but a debuff?
debuff mechanic exists on the other morph of crystal frags. crystal frags itself benefits from being semi-spammable and lower cost when the passive procs and dealing more damage.
there's a minor intel and endurance bonus to the other morph of ward, and it lasts 10 seconds, and it hits all people near you. you sacrifice a little bit of shield # but when you're stacking shields it doesnt really matter anyways.
roll my eyes at the last one.Exaggerated feedback from players, then comes the overbuffing from the devs, then the nerf around the corner.
basically what this topic isEdited by Dr_Con on 25 September 2022 19:171 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Exaggerated feedback from players, then comes the overbuffing from the devs, then the nerf around the corner.
Some of us are asking for some small, targeted changes that have direct parity with the abilities of other classes.
Add a debuff on curse, like every other class delayed damage ability.
Add an armor debuff mechanic to Crystal frags. The proc is pretty punishing and we don’t have class access to breach or sundered.
Add a class buff to the hardened ward morph. Minor protection would help because we don’t have a viable class heal without a double barred pet that dies all of the time. We also don’t have class access to the buff.
Some max stat sets that have parity with damage sets that hand out 1000+ spell damage would be nice. Time has buried the max stat play style.
...
daedric prey increases damage your pets do. you can argue for longer period where it's active but a debuff?
debuff mechanic exists on the other morph of crystal frags. crystal frags itself benefits from being semi-spammable and lower cost when the passive procs and dealing more damage.
there's a minor intel and endurance bonus to the other morph of ward, and it lasts 10 seconds, and it hits all people near you. you sacrifice a little bit of shield # but when you're stacking shields it doesnt really matter anyways.
roll my eyes at the last one.Exaggerated feedback from players, then comes the overbuffing from the devs, then the nerf around the corner.
basically what this topic is
You're again talking solely about PVE where sorc is doing fine except for the lack of cleave.
You're viewing this through the same problematic lens as ZOS: all about pets. Daedric summoning is only 1 of our three skill trees. There should be viable builds in those other trees, but there are not. Isn't "Storm Calling" supposed to be our primary damage tree? Why is there zero viable build focused on those abilities? Why only pets?!?!
Crystal frags is completely unusable as a spammable in PVP, trying to will only get you killed. Only the proc is worth anything.
The debuff from crystal weapon is laughably small. Other classes have access to actual debuffs. Sorc does not.
The shield# sacrifice from switching from Hardened ward to Empowered ward ABSOLUTELY does matter. Shields are garbage defense compared to just being able to heal. Sacrificing any when you're stacking into it as your only defense (which is the only defense sorc gets) is a huge nope. Also, Empowered ward is a trash way to get Minor Intellect/Endurance compared to skills like Enchanted Growth from Wardens which is also a useful group heal unlike Ward which is a selfish weak shield.
It's extremely clear that you only have a PVE perspective of sorc.Edited by acastanza_ESO on 25 September 2022 21:234 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Exaggerated feedback from players, then comes the overbuffing from the devs, then the nerf around the corner.
Some of us are asking for some small, targeted changes that have direct parity with the abilities of other classes.
Add a debuff on curse, like every other class delayed damage ability.
Add an armor debuff mechanic to Crystal frags. The proc is pretty punishing and we don’t have class access to breach or sundered.
Add a class buff to the hardened ward morph. Minor protection would help because we don’t have a viable class heal without a double barred pet that dies all of the time. We also don’t have class access to the buff.
Some max stat sets that have parity with damage sets that hand out 1000+ spell damage would be nice. Time has buried the max stat play style.
...
daedric prey increases damage your pets do. you can argue for longer period where it's active but a debuff?
debuff mechanic exists on the other morph of crystal frags. crystal frags itself benefits from being semi-spammable and lower cost when the passive procs and dealing more damage.
there's a minor intel and endurance bonus to the other morph of ward, and it lasts 10 seconds, and it hits all people near you. you sacrifice a little bit of shield # but when you're stacking shields it doesnt really matter anyways.
roll my eyes at the last one.Exaggerated feedback from players, then comes the overbuffing from the devs, then the nerf around the corner.
basically what this topic is
1. I’m talking haunting curse, not the pet one.
2. Crystal Frags morph doesn’t debuff anyone, given the infrequent proc rate, it probably should.
3. Hardened ward (the PVP morph) isn’t that great of a skill in any fight. I don’t think a 5% damage protection buff is unreasonable. Right now it doesn’t GIVE a buff, and the shield bonus is subject to a battle spirit health cap. So you don’t get all of that either.
A simple protection buff will increase the value of what little shields we get under the cap. It will also give us access to a buff we don’t have in our class kit.
Roll your eyes all you want, but our class underperforms in PVP. Worst case, I’m talking about making skill morphs (that you don’t use) more attractive.Edited by Minalan on 26 September 2022 00:213 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭acastanza_ESO wrote: »Exaggerated feedback from players, then comes the overbuffing from the devs, then the nerf around the corner.
Some of us are asking for some small, targeted changes that have direct parity with the abilities of other classes.
Add a debuff on curse, like every other class delayed damage ability.
Add an armor debuff mechanic to Crystal frags. The proc is pretty punishing and we don’t have class access to breach or sundered.
Add a class buff to the hardened ward morph. Minor protection would help because we don’t have a viable class heal without a double barred pet that dies all of the time. We also don’t have class access to the buff.
Some max stat sets that have parity with damage sets that hand out 1000+ spell damage would be nice. Time has buried the max stat play style.
...
daedric prey increases damage your pets do. you can argue for longer period where it's active but a debuff?
debuff mechanic exists on the other morph of crystal frags. crystal frags itself benefits from being semi-spammable and lower cost when the passive procs and dealing more damage.
there's a minor intel and endurance bonus to the other morph of ward, and it lasts 10 seconds, and it hits all people near you. you sacrifice a little bit of shield # but when you're stacking shields it doesnt really matter anyways.
roll my eyes at the last one.Exaggerated feedback from players, then comes the overbuffing from the devs, then the nerf around the corner.
basically what this topic is
You're again talking solely about PVE where sorc is doing fine except for the lack of cleave.
You're viewing this through the same problematic lens as ZOS: all about pets. Daedric summoning is only 1 of our three skill trees. There should be viable builds in those other trees, but there are not. Isn't "Storm Calling" supposed to be our primary damage tree? Why is there zero viable build focused on those abilities? Why only pets?!?!
Crystal frags is completely unusable as a spammable in PVP, trying to will only get you killed. Only the proc is worth anything.
The debuff from crystal weapon is laughably small. Other classes have access to actual debuffs. Sorc does not.
The shield# sacrifice from switching from Hardened ward to Empowered ward ABSOLUTELY does matter. Shields are garbage defense compared to just being able to heal. Sacrificing any when you're stacking into it as your only defense (which is the only defense sorc gets) is a huge nope. Also, Empowered ward is a trash way to get Minor Intellect/Endurance compared to skills like Enchanted Growth from Wardens which is also a useful group heal unlike Ward which is a selfish weak shield.
It's extremely clear that you only have a PVE perspective of sorc.
He said “pets”, so that much is obvious. In Cyrodiil pets are flapping 20K PB/OO bombs waiting to go off and kill you.
To add insult to injury, as a Sorc your one class heal is tied to that explosive. We aren’t complaining about the class for no reason, these things are seriously broken.2 -
Pelanora✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pets in battlegrounds seem especially unfair, as its not 4 in opposition but 6 or more. People should be able to take in a companion on that grounds, and that's obviously stupid.
Edited by Pelanora on 26 September 2022 01:370 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Pets in battlefields seem especially unfair, as its not 4 in opposition but 6 or more. People should be able to take in a companion on that grounds, and that's obviously stupid.
Look up the occult overload CP and the plaguebreak set (every other player has this).
Pets are such a ridiculous liability right now that they aren’t an option in PVP. You definitely do NOT want companions there for the same reason.
Kaboom!
In PVP you don’t even want to stand near friendly keep guards. You have to be aware of your position and surroundings, and keep moving.Edited by Minalan on 26 September 2022 01:394 -
Pelanora✭✭✭✭✭
✭There's nearly always been someone with pets in the battlegrounds I've played.
This overload.... doesn't sound much. But good against pets?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/564379/cps-occult-overload-how-does-it-work-exactlyEdited by Pelanora on 26 September 2022 01:410 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭There's nearly always been someone with pets in the battlegrounds I've played.
This overload.... doesn't sound much. But good against pets?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/564379/cps-occult-overload-how-does-it-work-exactly
Anything you kill that has a status effect on it (burning, chilled, poisoned, diseased, breached, etc) blows up and does 12800 damage total (all five stages) and it’s oblivion damage so it can’t be resisted. This is getting adjusted next patch.
PlagueBreak is another one that explodes for big damage anytime something dies that has the set’s DOT applied to it.
Edited by Minalan on 26 September 2022 02:371 -
Luede✭✭✭✭✭
The ability to roll, bash, sprint, or break free, or block with anything and have it cost magicka is one hell of a band-aid.
i don't quite understand how an item like this is supposed to help, i have 0 stamina problems and i say that now as a mag sorc who has invested 0 in stamina.0 -
Molydeus✭✭✭✭✭
✭MetallicMonk wrote: »Class has been dead, they're just erasing it from memory these days.
If sorcs are dead, then where are magicka necros and nb? There are always fotm classes and sorcerer was one of them for a long time. Just last patch everyone and their grandma were running stamsorcs with crazy burst combos and mobility, being top tier in both pvp and pve with magicka close behind. Still one of the strongest classes in pve and decent in pvp btw. Now, when was the last time you saw non bomber mag nb and necros? Probably, a few years ago as those were at bottom tier for a while.
STAMsorcs. Not MAGICKA.0 -
starlizard70ub17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sorcerer class is almost to the point that it needs a complete rework. Many of the class's skill are obsolete and useless. It's too bad because sorcerers used to be fun to play.
"We have found a cave, but I don't think there are warm fires and friendly faces inside."0 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭MetallicMonk wrote: »MetallicMonk wrote: »Class has been dead, they're just erasing it from memory these days.
If sorcs are dead, then where are magicka necros and nb? There are always fotm classes and sorcerer was one of them for a long time. Just last patch everyone and their grandma were running stamsorcs with crazy burst combos and mobility, being top tier in both pvp and pve with magicka close behind. Still one of the strongest classes in pve and decent in pvp btw. Now, when was the last time you saw non bomber mag nb and necros? Probably, a few years ago as those were at bottom tier for a while.
Dog what lol magicka nightblades are currently and have been strong for like the last 2-3 patches, it's just not ranged magblade.
Stamsorcs were getting carried by savage ww being overtuned/bugged and crystal weapon being way overtuned, if that's your justification then I guess you'll fit in with the rest of the clueless players on the forums.
The problem was always the sets
I still don't believe crystal weapon was overtuned when you have certain classes doing 30k damage on one skill.
The overall damage toolkit of stamsorc is still average at best compared to the top pvp class right now.4 -
Quethrosar✭✭✭✭stop calling it cleave. [snip] this is sword term. you cleave with a sword, you don't cleave with magic, you aoe with magic.
As for AOE , i am finding the black rose prison staff making a great difference in AOE of mobs. crits can easily be 20k where as wall was only 12 or so with MA staff. lightning staves since fire is not for AOE.
[edited for profanity bypass]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 27 September 2022 12:410 -
acastanza_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Quethrosar wrote: »stop calling it cleave. [snip] this is sword term. you cleave with a sword, you don't cleave with magic, you aoe with magic.
As for AOE , i am finding the black rose prison staff making a great difference in AOE of mobs. crits can easily be 20k where as wall was only 12 or so with MA staff. lightning staves since fire is not for AOE.
Sorry, cleave is the accepted term for it.
[edited to remove quote]Edited by ZOS_Icy on 27 September 2022 12:420 -
Pelanora✭✭✭✭✭
✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »
But you don't actually play the sorc class skills surely. Well I don't. And if it's 4 against 4 against 4, it should actually be 4 on 4 on 4. Not 4 on 6 on 4. Or whatever.Edited by Pelanora on 26 September 2022 18:490 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Pets are a liability in PVP, not an advantage. PeriodPhoenixGrey wrote: »
But you don't actually play the sorc class skills surely. Well I don't. And if it's 4 against 4 against 4, it should actually be 4 on 4 on 4. Not 4 on 6 on 4. Or whatever.
If you don't like sorc pets, slot the "Plague Break" set, and equip the "Occult Overload" CP. Kill the pet on one global, and watch it blow up and probably kill the owner.
FYI: I don't see anyone complaining about the Werewolf dire wolf pets, the warden bear, or necro exploding skeletons. All of those are much more useful and powerful than the sorc pets, which are an explosive and hilarious liability.
Edited by Minalan on 26 September 2022 21:574 -
Pelanora✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm probably getting this thread off topic talking about the battlegrounds. But any pet, yes, in there.
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