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Dear ZOS, you owe us (your customers & loyal community) a statement. The community just deserves it!
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peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I hope you get an official statement, but it's more than we got for AwA when it took the record by a country mile for the longest (almost entirely negative) feedback thread on the PTS forum.
Yep, I was thinking exactly that. I think the feedback and adjustments we got along the way in the PTS cycle WAS them addressing the feedback, and the fact that U35 went live is all the statement we'll get... which is that they still believe they are right and the community is wrong.
I hate seeing what this patch has done to the community and the game, but obviously someone very high up at ZOS thinks this level of angst over updates is "ok."7 -
nookji✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »I consider myself a most dedicated player and I don't hate this patch. I subscribe and play every day and put a lot of effort into the aspects of the game that I enjoy. Participating in end game isn't a requirement for dedication.
Sorry but these aspects that you enjoy where not enjoyable for you before the patch? Be honest?
There are a lot of players that have great fun with other aspects that the game delivers, as I also mentioned in my initial post. I know this and I fully respect this aswell.
The fact here is that this update destroyed too much for all the players that do like difficult content and progression
So if the update doesn't affect you, be happy, everything is fine for you. But I opened this thread from a different view. I try to show the perspective of the affected player base and not just my personal view! I like the game AND the whole community and therefore I try everything I can to save a bit of the whole thing.
Edited by nookji on 24 August 2022 16:3422 -
SaffronCitrusflower✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »vivisectvib16_ESO wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »You had a (in general I guess mostly) happy community.
The in game community appeared mostly happy, and from what I've seen that hasn't changed much. But the forums have always had a lot of negativity.
But I don't see what ZoS owes a statement about. They announced the changes, tested the changes, then implemented the changes.
The statement "owed" would be re: the massive backlash that is going on from the community right now. Their most dedicated players hate this patch and it's results. If they're being ignored, it's not a good sign, nor is it good business (source: me, someone who works in dev + marcom).
I consider myself a most dedicated player and I don't hate this patch. I subscribe and play every day and put a lot of effort into the aspects of the game that I enjoy. Participating in end game isn't a requirement for dedication.
Participating in end game PvE and PvP is required though if a player is to understand the impacts of U35. Players who don't participate in the highly competitive aspects of the game can never accurately understand or detail the effects of U35.Edited by SaffronCitrusflower on 24 August 2022 16:3827 -
peacenote✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
A few points on this. Whoever doesn't quit over changes ARE content to be in the game, so it makes sense that the in game community appears mostly happy pre and post controversial patches. Monitoring in-game discussions isn't the best way to keep a pulse on the entire community and whether folks are happier or more miserable after the update. Even the unhappy players who still log in will not scream it from the rooftops in zone chat, but play and maybe come back to complain on the forums when they are not logged in. People, while playing, PLAY!
It also makes sense that the forums have the most negativity, because it is an official line to the company (and therefore a place where people feel complaints might be heard). PLUS it is a place where the lurkers and the hopefuls go to monitor the state of the game in case the changes they quit over were reverted. Therefore the forums also aren't the best place to get a feel for the temperature of the active community, because it extends to people who have quit, sometimes a long time ago.
What I have found, personally, is a good "happy medium" indicator of how the community is doing is the Discord servers. I'm in one for each of my guilds, as well as some others like the tank club and the healer's discord. It is a place where like-minded individuals say what's on their mind without expecting an official response. When things are going well, my guilds are alive with chatter about recruiting, events, theory-crafting, jokes, pet pictures, and so on.
Never have I seen negative anti-ZOS, anti-patch, "this is it for me" discussions dominate my ESO-related servers like I'm seeing now. And it's basically ALL of them. I know this is anecdotal and measuring happiness in general is hard, but if the state of the active players who like to chat about the game when they aren't playing it, because it makes them happy is any indication .. the community took a BIG hit in the happiness ratings this patch.27 -
TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Eating a bad sandwich could potentially make you sick, which counts as a health hazard. Food safety is typically dealt with very seriously in most countries. Nothing ZOS does with ESO will ever have that sort of impact on the players. You either like it and continue playing, dislike it and continue playing begrudgingly, or dislike it and move on to something more enjoyable. I'm not a fan of the update, either, but calling for people to lose their jobs/resign isn't beneficial or constructive. Constructive feedback is one thing, and there has been plenty (from myself included), but calling for resignations is another.TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »I'd go so far as to say people should resign or lose their job for this. Patch after patch of bad decisions upon bad decisions. When does it end? Sandwich makers at Subway face amore accountability than this.
Maybe the Subway example was the wrong one. Everyone's job at a company in one way or another is customer retention and customer attraction. The combat changes in U35 and probably the last 10 patches have done the opposite of that. If you are so openly and frequently failing at your job that we need to see a "we missed the mark" apology every single update why exactly are you still employed in that position? Why are you being trusted continually to make decisions? Is there no penalty for failure? Does ZoS's gun have infinite ammo where you can continue to hit people while instead of "the mark"? make it make sense. I'm not being malicious here but where's the accountability? @Troodon80Edited by TheGreatBlackBear on 24 August 2022 17:125 -
Ghaleb✭✭✭✭✭[…]Discord servers. I'm in one for each of my guilds, as well as some others like the tank club and the healer's discord.
My impression on the community being unhappy was
- with the ESO Tank Club with U35 now starting to also look into other games
- SkinnyCheeks saying he might do videos (but unsure) but no build guides
- Nefas (considering his last video) on the brink of stopping
- Project Vitality being a smouldering ruin of what it was some weeks ago with 220+ raid leads to educate interested players on trials and their mechanics, etc, dropping below a whopping 60+ raid leads eventually offering the same experience
And I for sure missed some things.
Tomorrow I have my weekly vRG run with my guildies and when we are done, either way, I’ll work with the logs to provide an overview on the impact and post it to one of the threads here. I think it’ll be a similar display as outlined multiple times on this board here and, what frustrates me, as I also pointed out on the PTS board multiple times…12 -
blktauna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭It's only like day 3 on the live server, just wait until the regular player sees the results of the skill changes and drops. It'll take time for folks to notice but notice they will because the difference is definite.PCNA
PCEU3 -
Jaimeh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Holycannoli wrote: »In the next patch or the one after after a lot of these nerfs will be reverted.
Live right now is being used as the final test of this patch, and mark my words they will be reverting much of it.
Even so, this patch killed a lot of prog groups, and it's not like the end game community was thriving.4 -
Gargath✭✭✭✭✭
✭I only represent myself, and instead of whining and asking for a change, I rather try to adapt and get used to new in-game environment. It's much easier and healthier than expecting from ZOS any change or reversing in-game updates (unlikely to happen).PC EU (PL): 14 characters. ESO player since 06.08.2015. Farkas finest quote: "Some people don't think I'm smart. Those people get my fist. But you, I like."1 -
Ragnarok0130✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭vivisectvib16_ESO wrote: »adamsmith42 wrote: »
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Kevin @ZOS_Gilliam
Are you guys reading the forums and passing this on to the decision makers?
A better question would be are @ZOS_MattFiror and Phil Spencer aware of this massive gong show that their employees are engaged in?
Maybe people need to start showing Phil screenshots of everything on Twitter in order to ensure big daddy MS knows what's happening with their shiny new investment.Holycannoli wrote: »In the next patch or the one after after a lot of these nerfs will be reverted.
Live right now is being used as the final test of this patch, and mark my words they will be reverting much of it.
I agree based on history, however this is singlehandedly the most dysfunctional way to run a game. A savvy business doesn't alienate their most loyal customers (who are also free press in good times or very bad press if treated badly enough) and merely say "my bad" 3 months later and revert most of the changes. A savvy business just doesn't push forward with bad patches that elicit this much push back from this large of a community cross section.I hope you get an official statement, but it's more than we got for AwA when it took the record by a country mile for the longest (almost entirely negative) feedback thread on the PTS forum.
Yep, I was thinking exactly that. I think the feedback and adjustments we got along the way in the PTS cycle WAS them addressing the feedback, and the fact that U35 went live is all the statement we'll get... which is that they still believe they are right and the community is wrong.
I hate seeing what this patch has done to the community and the game, but obviously someone very high up at ZOS thinks this level of angst over updates is "ok."
That's the weird part. No gaming company should think "all press is good press"; especially not with what we've seen in U35 where even gaming journos where baffled. This level of community angst has literally ended games before, it's not okay - especially considering we want to continue to play the game that we enjoy in order to continue to give ZoS our money. Normally a company is like, "Less work by keeping things the same and they still pay us? Excellent!" But not ZoS, they want to shake up the etchasketch every 3 months and create and immense amount of work for their dev team and then even more work to revert what they just worked on. I don't call that a good thing, I call that inefficiency and a lack of vision of where the game is and will go.12 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SizanLopkniht wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »vivisectvib16_ESO wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »You had a (in general I guess mostly) happy community.
The in game community appeared mostly happy, and from what I've seen that hasn't changed much. But the forums have always had a lot of negativity.
But I don't see what ZoS owes a statement about. They announced the changes, tested the changes, then implemented the changes.
The statement "owed" would be re: the massive backlash that is going on from the community right now. Their most dedicated players hate this patch and it's results. If they're being ignored, it's not a good sign, nor is it good business (source: me, someone who works in dev + marcom).
I consider myself a most dedicated player and I don't hate this patch. I subscribe and play every day and put a lot of effort into the aspects of the game that I enjoy. Participating in end game isn't a requirement for dedication.
Participating in end game PvE and PvP is required though if a player is to understand the impacts of U35. Players who don't participate in the highly competitive aspects of the game can never accurately understand or detail the effects of U35.
End game players may notice a bigger drop in their damage, but that's a result of lowering the ceiling.
Participating in end game veteran content does not make them the "most dedicated" players. I am every bit as dedicated to my game and how I play as any other player. End game content does not equal dedication.PCNA4 -
AinSoph✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »SizanLopkniht wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »vivisectvib16_ESO wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »You had a (in general I guess mostly) happy community.
The in game community appeared mostly happy, and from what I've seen that hasn't changed much. But the forums have always had a lot of negativity.
But I don't see what ZoS owes a statement about. They announced the changes, tested the changes, then implemented the changes.
The statement "owed" would be re: the massive backlash that is going on from the community right now. Their most dedicated players hate this patch and it's results. If they're being ignored, it's not a good sign, nor is it good business (source: me, someone who works in dev + marcom).
I consider myself a most dedicated player and I don't hate this patch. I subscribe and play every day and put a lot of effort into the aspects of the game that I enjoy. Participating in end game isn't a requirement for dedication.
Participating in end game PvE and PvP is required though if a player is to understand the impacts of U35. Players who don't participate in the highly competitive aspects of the game can never accurately understand or detail the effects of U35.
End game players may notice a bigger drop in their damage, but that's a result of lowering the ceiling.
Participating in end game veteran content does not make them the "most dedicated" players. I am every bit as dedicated to my game and how I play as any other player. End game content does not equal dedication.
Absolutely no one is challenging your "dedication" and dedication does not equal knowledge.29 -
Scaletho✭✭✭✭✭Do we really want to show how messed up this U35 was?
Some suggestions:
Stop buying CROWNS!
Stop going to Cyrodiil/Dungeons in regular basis. Show how frustrating PVP or PvE places has become.
Fill the support with meaningful reports about how horrible the situation is.
Stop giving ZOS the impression that ESO is still as good as before. Manifest yourself, send the Forum threads.
I know that a decent number of player just don't care because they don't have good build characters in game or don't understand the mechanics enough to see the problems, but a much larger number of players know how bad the situation become. AND WE MADE THIS GAME RELEVANT.18 -
Riptide✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some folks certainly are dedicated to the forums. No doubt about that.Esse quam videri.11 -
Danse_Mayhem✭✭✭✭Written so well.
Take the L ZOS and just address this. You literally never address anything that ends up being a huge mistake. I used to use the PTS and I uploaded video tests + summaries of how busted dark convergence was on PTS release (along with other people) and it was ignored, and released in the most broken form ever. Since then I deleted the PTS because what’s the point? I’ve yet to see a single argument in favour of these ridiculous changes and at every step of the PTS, YOUR community were telling you not to make these U35 changes… And our feedback was ignored with it to be released anyway.
PVP is a mess of bombers all relying on proc sets and occult overload for kills, and PVE progs are getting reset for no reason. I have people in my guild announcing their departure from eso and literally no one I’ve come across in the entire community is happy about these crazy changes.
Damage control is right. You need a statement out ASAP, explaining why these changes will be reverted or what will be done to fix - I’m willing to bet the next crown crates will have the lowest sales to date because of how the community feels right now. In fact I would encourage a kind of boycott to crown sales until this is addressed▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
ＤＡＭＮ ＴＨＩＳ ＣＯＭＭＥＮＴ ＩＳ ＦＡＮＣＹ！
▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
YouTube.com/DarkProjectMayhem8 -
Karma2Burn✭✭✭To be honest I sincerely hope some of you never get a flat tire irl. I’m not sure some of you would make it out alive.8
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nookji✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »End game players may notice a bigger drop in their damage, but that's a result of lowering the ceiling.
Participating in end game veteran content does not make them the "most dedicated" players. I am every bit as dedicated to my game and how I play as any other player. End game content does not equal dedication.
I don't get it, I mean if it doesn't make a difference for you so you had no disadvantages before. Cool, happy for you that you can still enjoy as before.
[SNIP] Why do you think it is good if end game players have a difficult time? If you arent affected anyway then why are you against a change/reversal to the good for the end game community?
Edited by ZOS_Suserial on 24 August 2022 21:3020 -
ZOS_SuserialadminGreetings!
While we completely understand everyone has their own opinions, thoughts, feelings and even frustrations, we want the forums to be a civil and constructive platform for the game and its community.
If you have a question of something that is posted or you are going to post you can always check on the Community Rules. For those engaging in this thread please remember that things like "Bashing, Spamming, Trolling, or Baiting" are not allowed according to our Community Rules.
The Elder Scrolls Online - ZeniMax Online Studios
Community Rules | Code-of-Conduct | Terms-of-Service | ESO-Home | ESO-Help3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »End game players may notice a bigger drop in their damage, but that's a result of lowering the ceiling.
Participating in end game veteran content does not make them the "most dedicated" players. I am every bit as dedicated to my game and how I play as any other player. End game content does not equal dedication.
I don't get it, I mean if it doesn't make a difference for you so you had no disadvantages before. Cool, happy for you that you can still enjoy as before.
[SNIP] Why do you think it is good if end game players have a difficult time? If you arent affected anyway then why are you against a change/reversal to the good for the end game community?
I never once said I want any players to have a difficult time, nor did I ever mention a change or reversal or how I feel about either.PCNA2 -
nookji✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »I never once said I want any players to have a difficult time, nor did I ever mention a change or reversal or how I feel about either.
Agreed, sorry, then I misunderstood
So then lets get back to topic and have a constructive good conversation with helpful feedback and opinions5 -
FluffWit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭They really need a different symbol to differentiate moderation related posts in these topics from posts by the devs.
End up opening and scrolling through so many of them hoping to see something from Rich/ Gina etc but it's almost always just something about forum rules.9 -
GreatGildersleeve✭✭✭✭They really need a different symbol to differentiate moderation related posts in these topics from posts by the devs.
End up opening and scrolling through so many of them hoping to see something from Rich/ Gina etc but it's almost always just something about forum rules.
Bookmark this. It’ll help.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/tracker2 -
FluffWit✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GreatGildersleeve wrote: »They really need a different symbol to differentiate moderation related posts in these topics from posts by the devs.
End up opening and scrolling through so many of them hoping to see something from Rich/ Gina etc but it's almost always just something about forum rules.
Bookmark this. It’ll help.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/tracker
Ty! First link on there was actually about a bug I encountered today.1 -
Spectral_Force✭✭✭We've seen many controversial changes go through lately, but while people are still voting with their wallets and buying the latest DLCs, using the Crown Store, and paying for ESO Plus, nothing will change.
It doesn't matter what people say on the forums, ultimately. In their books, a paying community is a happy community, and that's the bottom line.I've unearthed the Legendary Antiquity of Mêlée Island and all I got was this stupid T-shirt!8 -
UnabashedlyHonest✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »SizanLopkniht wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »vivisectvib16_ESO wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »You had a (in general I guess mostly) happy community.
The in game community appeared mostly happy, and from what I've seen that hasn't changed much. But the forums have always had a lot of negativity.
But I don't see what ZoS owes a statement about. They announced the changes, tested the changes, then implemented the changes.
The statement "owed" would be re: the massive backlash that is going on from the community right now. Their most dedicated players hate this patch and it's results. If they're being ignored, it's not a good sign, nor is it good business (source: me, someone who works in dev + marcom).
I consider myself a most dedicated player and I don't hate this patch. I subscribe and play every day and put a lot of effort into the aspects of the game that I enjoy. Participating in end game isn't a requirement for dedication.
Participating in end game PvE and PvP is required though if a player is to understand the impacts of U35. Players who don't participate in the highly competitive aspects of the game can never accurately understand or detail the effects of U35.
End game players may notice a bigger drop in their damage, but that's a result of lowering the ceiling.
Participating in end game veteran content does not make them the "most dedicated" players. I am every bit as dedicated to my game and how I play as any other player. End game content does not equal dedication.SilverBride wrote: »SizanLopkniht wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »vivisectvib16_ESO wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »You had a (in general I guess mostly) happy community.
The in game community appeared mostly happy, and from what I've seen that hasn't changed much. But the forums have always had a lot of negativity.
But I don't see what ZoS owes a statement about. They announced the changes, tested the changes, then implemented the changes.
The statement "owed" would be re: the massive backlash that is going on from the community right now. Their most dedicated players hate this patch and it's results. If they're being ignored, it's not a good sign, nor is it good business (source: me, someone who works in dev + marcom).
I consider myself a most dedicated player and I don't hate this patch. I subscribe and play every day and put a lot of effort into the aspects of the game that I enjoy. Participating in end game isn't a requirement for dedication.
Participating in end game PvE and PvP is required though if a player is to understand the impacts of U35. Players who don't participate in the highly competitive aspects of the game can never accurately understand or detail the effects of U35.
End game players may notice a bigger drop in their damage, but that's a result of lowering the ceiling.
Participating in end game veteran content does not make them the "most dedicated" players. I am every bit as dedicated to my game and how I play as any other player. End game content does not equal dedication.
You seem to be equating dedication with competency. In order to understand the effects of U35 a player has to be competent enough at the game to complete the harder and hardest content in the game. If all a player ever does is overland and housing they have no idea what the impacts of U35 or any other update actually are. They just have an uninformed opinion or a feeling without any actual data and experience to inform their thinking.Edited by UnabashedlyHonest on 25 August 2022 02:0617 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnarok0130 wrote: »I agree based on history, however this is singlehandedly the most dysfunctional way to run a game. A savvy business doesn't alienate their most loyal customers (who are also free press in good times or very bad press if treated badly enough) and merely say "my bad" 3 months later and revert most of the changes. A savvy business just doesn't push forward with bad patches that elicit this much push back from this large of a community cross section.
I totally agree, and it's not like this is the first time it's happened. I remember when they buffed DoTs in August then nerfed them in September either back to where they were or in some cases even worse than before the buff. Made me uninstall the game it was so frustrating.
It makes no sense to do this but it's what's happening again, soon enough.8 -
Turtle_Bot✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭It's only like day 3 on the live server, just wait until the regular player sees the results of the skill changes and drops. It'll take time for folks to notice but notice they will because the difference is definite.
It didn't even take 1 day before they started coming to the forums and complaining about the changes. The uptick in "what happened", "my damage has vanished" etc posts on the forums appeared literally minutes after the update went live, with more and more appearing by the hour.5 -
Nariyna✭✭This patch U35 was horrible. I canceled my two subscriptions. The community is great and for the most part everyone is cool. Just ZOS missed the mark and did not listen to player feed back now this is the fall out, people leaving the game. I was in Blackwood tonight doing my daily writs and it was empty. I still have time on my subs so I will let them run out and not renew them. I am walking away with my wallet, sad.11
