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Nightblade Tanks (no Tanks stand still)
VolrathStormborn
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No Tanks stand still not moving so the extra HoT buff there is not going to apply much. Especially in the very mobile encounters in the latest content. Just not cool, especially since Healers got their reductions to heavy attack return, sticky HoTs, and forced to spam burst heals in the mobile environment the NB Tanks need to be able to heal themselves.
Just utilize Battle Spirit. You can apply whatever effect to it that you want.
Edited by VolrathStormborn on 8 August 2022 17:56 Just utilize Battle Spirit. You can apply whatever effect to it that you want.
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TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭VolrathStormborn wrote: »No Tanks stand still not moving so the extra HoT buff there is not going to apply much. Especially in the very mobile encounters in the latest content. Just not cool, especially since Healers got their reductions to heavy attack return, sticky HoTs, and forced to spam burst heals in the mobile environment the NB Tanks need to be able to heal themselves.
Just utilize Battle Spirit. You can apply whatever effect to it that you want.
Not true. In PVE it's quite normal to stand still for seconds at time until you are forced to move for a mechanic or get an add. The PVP shuffle is a pejorative for a reason.Edited by TheGreatBlackBear on 8 August 2022 18:131 -
VolrathStormborn✭✭✭At certain times, sure we all get to stand there. But there are way too many instances where you're kiting or moving around with a good amount of inbound damage. The sticky HoTs have been reduced, damage inbound is still high and ticks quickly in newer content. vDSR, I'm not standing still all that often. Hell vCR kiting Darkness, vHoF twins, etc.
I understand why that was adjusted for PvP, but there is no real sweet spot with this one. Really wish PvP can just be separated entirely, or that Battle Spirit can be used to adjust skills.
This patch really fractured the player base. This overhaul just wasn't that badly needed to cause all of this.5 -
vgabor✭✭✭✭✭
✭Well, this version ironically not bad for PvP tanks, although not sure that was the intention
<snip for baiting>
EDIT: dear @ZOS_Hadeostry please look up the PvP terms and phrases, the "PvP troll tank" is not a depredatory term for the player but a pvp playstyle with a build which focus entirely on survivability at the expense of giving up killing anyone
@ZOS_GinaBruno please guys educate your moderator team about the specific language terms used in the game by the players if they supposed to moderate the players...Edited by vgabor on 8 August 2022 21:551 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Templars say hello! Welcome to the stand still club, it was getting very lonely here.4 -
TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭But In a lot of those situations you described you're only moving for a specific and predictable reason, like passing the beam on Chickens ( if you even do that strat. If using the burn strat this a heal buff as the fight becomes a tank and spank), or kiting crushing a situation where you're not taking damage as you're kiting. Dreadsail doesn't have that much movement out side of telegraphed moments such as swapping on first boss or chasing the Turtle but it depends on how clean your group is so I won't really argue that one.
Fair enough I guess, but then I'd say why brute force a nightblade tank in unfavourable matchups? Part of raiding is bringing a team that's best suited to the situation. Like you'd be much better having Warden range tank Lokk because of Shimmering Shield and having a NB leash the atros under Yoln because of the Major Evasion (a role they would be event better now because of the latest standing still heal buff) for example. IMO it's alright to have a niche. So if NB's identity is the tank that can mit aoe damage and heal through it while standing still then so be it. I'm not saying that the cloak changes are going to make NB that kind of tank but to focus on the class's shortcoming when there are fights and bosses where it shines would be a disservice to it imo.1 -
velt88_ESO✭✭✭TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »VolrathStormborn wrote: »No Tanks stand still not moving so the extra HoT buff there is not going to apply much. Especially in the very mobile encounters in the latest content. Just not cool, especially since Healers got their reductions to heavy attack return, sticky HoTs, and forced to spam burst heals in the mobile environment the NB Tanks need to be able to heal themselves.
Just utilize Battle Spirit. You can apply whatever effect to it that you want.
Not true. In PVE it's quite normal to stand still for seconds at time until you are forced to move for a mechanic or get an add. The PVP shuffle is a pejorative for a reason.
Hi, I don't really PvP yet -- so I can't speak for that side, but I move all the time when I'm tanking. This change just killed one of the only nighblade abilities on my sword and board bar...
If I'm class A, and my class has a heal over time -- I should want to use the one from my class instead of the generic one -- otherwise why does it exist.2 -
I can see what they are trying to do... sort of? But they made this game, they know the mechanics of boss fights and how much bosses move/teleport etc. There are attacks to roll dodge because not everythimg can be blocked or risking 1 shot mechanincs....
They must know that this wont work well on a tank?
I think that ZOS need to attempt vet hm trials on a NB Tank.
Edited by OmegaFragment on 8 August 2022 21:041 -
edward_frigidhands✭✭✭✭✭They can just ensure the current version of Dark Cloak is preserved for people who have 45k health and 33000 resistances.0 -
xDeusEJRx✭✭✭✭✭
✭I find it funny how they go and nerf cloak just because a few people in PVP are using it, when 90% of pvp nightblade population are all shadowy disguise users anyways.
Apparently the less than 10% are such a problem they need to be constantly nerfed.Solo PvP'er PS5 NA player
90% of my body is made of Magblade6 -
p4l4mu7✭✭✭✭✭Did combat team test new dark cloak on base game dungeons like vFG 1 , I don't see how this cloak will be functional on majority of the new trials and dungeons.1 -
virt_eso✭✭For PVP... This just completely nuked the "brawl-blade" playstyle that doesn't like to play in stealth. It's the only way I play it. It's already a tough way to play the class and now my character is just going to have its gear stiped and swapped to something else. This is really sad. Can we please just leave the skill alone?5
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Jaraal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Time to dust off my NB troll tank! This change is awful for PvE, but I can’t wait to have 20 players in Cyrodiil parsing on me while I stand still, hold block, and cast this amazing new Dark Cloak!2 -
Foxtrot39✭✭✭✭edward_frigidhands wrote: »
Yep, using Elfe bane for +5s on magma shell is also an option1 -
Opalblade✭✭✭Considering its theme, Nightblade seems like a really odd pick for a class with a "stand in one place" mechanic. If I were new to the game and someone told me I could even play the assassin class as a tank, being the one tank that is forced to stand still in order to survive is the complete opposite of what I would expect.6
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boi_anachronism_✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Considering its theme, Nightblade seems like a really odd pick for a class with a "stand in one place" mechanic. If I were new to the game and someone told me I could even play the assassin class as a tank, being the one tank that is forced to stand still in order to survive is the complete opposite of what I would expect.
My thoughts exactly. It's an assassin class.
The main focus on that type of class is basically mobility, stealth, and high burst damage.0 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I find it funny how they go and nerf cloak just because a few people in PVP are using it, when 90% of pvp nightblade population are all shadowy disguise users anyways.
Apparently the less than 10% are such a problem they need to be constantly nerfed.
It's not even 10%. Way less.
And nobody is complaining about dark cloak healing too much.
I genuinely haven't seen or heard anything close to that.3 -
Dagobertfuk✭✭✭We could use dark cloak in pvp in combination with meditate. But since every half decent pvper is bash canceling his melee skills, meditate gets interrupted anyway and gets a small CD.
I guess i will replace Dark Cloak for some other heal...idk yet.
ZOS's balance team is just hopeless. I started ESO before a few month and now im already so extremly demotivated to look forward in this game, its just sad. The direction how ZOS fixes evolved from 2k19, (when i quit the game until may 2k22) is just frightening. They almost never do what the playerbase want. Either its nerfed to the ground, completly changed or OP af. What a joke company.
From my side, there is absolutely no sympathy left for ZOS.
Ashes of Creations please hurry!!! I cba using ESO as its waitingroom anymore.Edited by Dagobertfuk on 9 August 2022 08:103 -
p4l4mu7✭✭✭✭✭Dagobertfuk wrote: »But since every half decent pvper is bash canceling his melee skills, meditate gets interrupted anyway and gets a small CD.
I don't agree with dark cloak changes little bit, but can you please try to improve yourself instead of running to forums as soon as you are countered in a pvp scenario. People are interrupting your channeling as intended in the game? Use an Immovability potion before and you are fine, see you don't have to bash developers to buff something as soon as someone kills you pvp.0 -
TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭velt88_ESO wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »VolrathStormborn wrote: »No Tanks stand still not moving so the extra HoT buff there is not going to apply much. Especially in the very mobile encounters in the latest content. Just not cool, especially since Healers got their reductions to heavy attack return, sticky HoTs, and forced to spam burst heals in the mobile environment the NB Tanks need to be able to heal themselves.
Just utilize Battle Spirit. You can apply whatever effect to it that you want.
Not true. In PVE it's quite normal to stand still for seconds at time until you are forced to move for a mechanic or get an add. The PVP shuffle is a pejorative for a reason.
Hi, I don't really PvP yet -- so I can't speak for that side, but I move all the time when I'm tanking. This change just killed one of the only nighblade abilities on my sword and board bar...
If I'm class A, and my class has a heal over time -- I should want to use the one from my class instead of the generic one -- otherwise why does it exist.
You move all the time by choice. Say the correct thing. That's fine. Play how you like and all but don't act like PVE tanking is this constant game of hotfoot. Because it's not.1 -
Dagobertfuk✭✭✭Dagobertfuk wrote: »But since every half decent pvper is bash canceling his melee skills, meditate gets interrupted anyway and gets a small CD.
I don't agree with dark cloak changes little bit, but can you please try to improve yourself instead of running to forums as soon as you are countered in a pvp scenario. People are interrupting your channeling as intended in the game? Use an Immovability potion before and you are fine, see you don't have to bash developers to buff something as soon as someone kills you pvp.
I dont have a problem with things are intented in the game. I have a problem with skill's getting changed until its uselessness.
I wont sacrifice Major Endurance, Fortitude, Intellect to make skill work for 25% of the time, that i can use Dark Cloak a tiny bit more efficient. Actually immovable pot extra for that is such a garbage idea. Respect for that rofl. I need all 3 buffs. Imagine using two things you dont really need to make one skill work rofl. You must be a zergling. I like things i can use constant. Feel free to do all that for one skill. But im not that garbage at the game.
I can easly adapt to changes like that, but those changes are very annoying and they kill contantly playstyles i like since 2k18 and that was the reason i stop playing the game. Now im back and ZOS continues with that *** in a way bigger scale.
I decide myself when there is a need for me to bash them or not and some Emo doesnt change that.Edited by Dagobertfuk on 9 August 2022 11:380 -
TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »velt88_ESO wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »VolrathStormborn wrote: »No Tanks stand still not moving so the extra HoT buff there is not going to apply much. Especially in the very mobile encounters in the latest content. Just not cool, especially since Healers got their reductions to heavy attack return, sticky HoTs, and forced to spam burst heals in the mobile environment the NB Tanks need to be able to heal themselves.
Just utilize Battle Spirit. You can apply whatever effect to it that you want.
Not true. In PVE it's quite normal to stand still for seconds at time until you are forced to move for a mechanic or get an add. The PVP shuffle is a pejorative for a reason.
Hi, I don't really PvP yet -- so I can't speak for that side, but I move all the time when I'm tanking. This change just killed one of the only nighblade abilities on my sword and board bar...
If I'm class A, and my class has a heal over time -- I should want to use the one from my class instead of the generic one -- otherwise why does it exist.
You move all the time by choice. Say the correct thing. That's fine. Play how you like and all but don't act like PVE tanking is this constant game of hotfoot. Because it's not.
I will have to disagree, yes there are times when as a tank you get to stand still for a few seconds. The rest of the time you are/should be moving to control the room by pulling adds/laying debuffs/buffs etc
It's not even only vet dlc and trials that can be a problem.
As an example: Banished Cells 2 HM.
Controlling the daedroth requires movement to keep them all stacked and taunted, then add in reduced healing and a lot of newer Tanks may have a problem.
If you have a low damage group that cannot burn the boss you can end up trying to control 9+daedroth with reduced healing whenever you move and that is just a regular base game veteran hard mode. There are many more difficult fights.
Many NB Tanks will be have an extremely hard time in higher level content with such a large reduction to their main heal.
Accidently take a Icebreath in VSS from the first boss? Right now I can just about heal through it, if someone is standing still they may be okay.. just. But in VSS you don't really stand still, there is the boss to taunt, breath attacks to dodge and atronochs to control. This healing reduction would be completly incompatible with the Tanking style required to complete Dungeons and Trials the way ZOS has designed them.
Edited by OmegaFragment on 9 August 2022 11:504 -
Jazraena✭✭✭✭✭
✭Slot me in with the NB Tanks that will drop Dark Cloak with this ludicrous restriction. I need a 'It just works', not 'Terms and Conditions Apply'.2 -
TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭OmegaFragment wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »velt88_ESO wrote: »TheGreatBlackBear wrote: »VolrathStormborn wrote: »No Tanks stand still not moving so the extra HoT buff there is not going to apply much. Especially in the very mobile encounters in the latest content. Just not cool, especially since Healers got their reductions to heavy attack return, sticky HoTs, and forced to spam burst heals in the mobile environment the NB Tanks need to be able to heal themselves.
Just utilize Battle Spirit. You can apply whatever effect to it that you want.
Not true. In PVE it's quite normal to stand still for seconds at time until you are forced to move for a mechanic or get an add. The PVP shuffle is a pejorative for a reason.
Hi, I don't really PvP yet -- so I can't speak for that side, but I move all the time when I'm tanking. This change just killed one of the only nighblade abilities on my sword and board bar...
If I'm class A, and my class has a heal over time -- I should want to use the one from my class instead of the generic one -- otherwise why does it exist.
You move all the time by choice. Say the correct thing. That's fine. Play how you like and all but don't act like PVE tanking is this constant game of hotfoot. Because it's not.
I will have to disagree, yes there are times when as a tank you get to stand still for a few seconds. The rest of the time you are/should be moving to control the room by pulling adds/laying debuffs/buffs etc
It's not even only vet dlc and trials that can be a problem.
As an example: Banished Cells 2 HM.
Controlling the daedroth requires movement to keep them all stacked and taunted, then add in reduced healing and a lot of newer Tanks may have a problem.
If you have a low damage group that cannot burn the boss you can end up trying to control 9+daedroth with reduced healing whenever you move and that is just a regular base game veteran hard mode. There are many more difficult fights.
Many NB Tanks will be have an extremely hard time in higher level content with such a large reduction to their main heal.
Accidently take a Icebreath in VSS from the first boss? Right now I can just about heal through it, if someone is standing still they may be okay.. just. But in VSS you don't really stand still, there is the boss to taunt, breath attacks to dodge and atronochs to control. This healing reduction would be completly incompatible with the Tanking style required to complete Dungeons and Trials the way ZOS has designed them.
These are not good examples. Lokk is straightforward to tank and stand still because you can range tank him with no breath to dodge out of. (Although as I said in an earlier comment, why a NB is doing that and not a warden would be my first question). So why exactly are you moving there? As for grabbing atros MT doesn't do that the OT does. And if some reason you needed to grab far enemies you have a ranged taunt from undaunted and ice staff. And STILL that doesn't address the elephant in the room in that you would as a tank you are not spamming your heal every single second. It would only be in response to or in anticipation of taking damage from a specific mechanic. Even during flight phases you are largely standing still after you drag ice atros thought the mark or you're rolling a heavy from the atros. Do some reflection and then tell me if that fight is so movement heavy that a NB tank can't get through it with a little self awareness. I genuinely don't think it is.
As for your banished cells example most times it's just the tank penned in a corner holding the daedroths. You grab them with a ranged taunt then you chill out while you refresh taunt on each of them.
l feel like this is another endgame vs less experienced divide but in my experience, you really don't need to be moving all that much as a tank nor do you need your heal to be running 100% of the time.0 -
Dragonredux✭✭✭✭✭Dark Cloak getting a restriction that nobody asked for despite healing for less than live.
The devs looked at the entire Shadow tree and changed every skill except the one skill everyone's been wanting changed which was the useless ultimate.
You can't make this up...8 -
Dagobertfuk✭✭✭Dragonredux wrote: »Dark Cloak getting a restriction that nobody asked for despite healing for less than live.
The devs looked at the entire Shadow tree and changed every skill except the one skill everyone's been wanting changed which was the useless ultimate.
You can't make this up...
Hahahaha. More incompetence isnt possible i swearEdited by Dagobertfuk on 9 August 2022 13:210 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭vAA - Every boss is a stack and burn and Tank can stand still.
vHRC - Every boss is a stack and burn and Tank can stand still.
vSO - Every boss is a stack and burn and Tank can stand still
vMoL - With exception of moving when in a negate on Twins, Tank can stand still
vHoF - Every boss can be held still for Tank to heal
vAS - Tank can stand still on all fights
vCR - Will have to move during Kite but doesn't happen that often.
vSS - Tank can stand still on all fights
vKA - Tank can stand still on all fights
vRG - Tank can stand still to heal on all fights
vDSR - Can stand still for majority of time, but have to move for Tank Swap and AoEs on Twins, Cone for Reef Guardian, and Winter Storm for Taleria. All 3 situations will have a healer right there on you.2 -
p4l4mu7✭✭✭✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »vAA - Every boss is a stack and burn and Tank can stand still.
vHRC - Every boss is a stack and burn and Tank can stand still.
vSO - Every boss is a stack and burn and Tank can stand still
vMoL - With exception of moving when in a negate on Twins, Tank can stand still
vHoF - Every boss can be held still for Tank to heal
vAS - Tank can stand still on all fights
vCR - Will have to move during Kite but doesn't happen that often.
vSS - Tank can stand still on all fights
vKA - Tank can stand still on all fights
vRG - Tank can stand still to heal on all fights
vDSR - Can stand still for majority of time, but have to move for Tank Swap and AoEs on Twins, Cone for Reef Guardian, and Winter Storm for Taleria. All 3 situations will have a healer right there on you.
vRG hardmode, you are moving 80% of the time on Bahsei
vSS hardmode, you are moving beneath Yolnahkriin to chain atronachs while you are actively taking a massive fire damage
vCR kite happens way often then you think
these are some examples from main tank perspective and when you are an offtank you are moving on majority of these fights.
Dark cloak tooltip says you get more healing if you stand still, so don't picture "moving" as running from one side to another, even if you take one tiniest step towards any direction it is count as moving. Picture youself playing without WASD keys, how many of the latest contents you can play without putting your hand on WASD1 -
TheGreatBlackBear✭✭✭✭✭
✭paulsimonps wrote: »vAA - Every boss is a stack and burn and Tank can stand still.
vHRC - Every boss is a stack and burn and Tank can stand still.
vSO - Every boss is a stack and burn and Tank can stand still
vMoL - With exception of moving when in a negate on Twins, Tank can stand still
vHoF - Every boss can be held still for Tank to heal
vAS - Tank can stand still on all fights
vCR - Will have to move during Kite but doesn't happen that often.
vSS - Tank can stand still on all fights
vKA - Tank can stand still on all fights
vRG - Tank can stand still to heal on all fights
vDSR - Can stand still for majority of time, but have to move for Tank Swap and AoEs on Twins, Cone for Reef Guardian, and Winter Storm for Taleria. All 3 situations will have a healer right there on you.
finally someone with a lick of common sense0 -
Dagobertfuk✭✭✭paulsimonps wrote: »vAA - Every boss is a stack and burn and Tank can stand still.
vHRC - Every boss is a stack and burn and Tank can stand still.
vSO - Every boss is a stack and burn and Tank can stand still
vMoL - With exception of moving when in a negate on Twins, Tank can stand still
vHoF - Every boss can be held still for Tank to heal
vAS - Tank can stand still on all fights
vCR - Will have to move during Kite but doesn't happen that often.
vSS - Tank can stand still on all fights
vKA - Tank can stand still on all fights
vRG - Tank can stand still to heal on all fights
vDSR - Can stand still for majority of time, but have to move for Tank Swap and AoEs on Twins, Cone for Reef Guardian, and Winter Storm for Taleria. All 3 situations will have a healer right there on you.
Not everyone of us is a pve bot.1