Does Anyone Actually Like the Majority of the PTS Changes?

starkerealm · July 2022

No

GreatGildersleeve wrote: »

BalticBlues wrote: »

BRING WROBEL BACK.

Funny, I was sure I was the only one thinking this. At least he didn’t balance the game to a spreadsheet.

I actually really miss the guy. Granted, he scared the hell out of me when we first met, but he was cool, and he listened. I really need to stress that, because it's what we lost when he left, Eric listened to the community. He didn't always do what he wanted, but he was paying attention.

merpins · July 2022

No

virtus753 wrote: »

I agree with everything you said. Deadly was my favorite DPS set for templar, and now it's pretty bad. What with the nerf to dots, I'd probably just switch to Pillar of Nirn. Again. On my obteenth character. Turn jabs back, ZoS. If ya needa nerf the damage and speed up the animation to make it .8 casting time or whatever, do that. But the PTS jab sucks.

TPishek · July 2022

No

I like the Nightblade and Templar changes. Buff timers being extended are cool. The dot changes are horrific. Light attack changes are net negative, but wouldn't have been the end of the world if the power was transferred somewhere else.

Necrotech_Master · July 2022

Mixed

i would say im generally mixed with a slight negative on whats going on

light/heavy changes - for me personally i know this is a dps loss but i dont think its going to be too bad

increasing duration on dots/buffs - great, i would like the dots to be 15-20 sec

decreasing dot tick rate to 1 per 2 sec - awful, we already have dots in game with 1 tick per 2 sec and it feels awful slow to deal any dmg

decreasing dot dmg - also bad, dots were mostly barely passable before

there is also inconsistencies as well, there are dozens of gear sets which tick at rate of 1 per 1 second, but are not mentioned in the patch notes (syvarra scales, pillar of nirn, sheer venom, just to name a few), if these are unaffected by the dot changes they will be undoubtedly 100% better than any class/skill derived DoT

carly · July 2022

I've watched a few videos today put out by ESO content creators and without naming names, this is what I took away from them:

1. Basically they feel ZOS is scaling back LA and HA damage to what it used to be a few years ago.
2. The 'gap' is the fault of ZOS for putting out sets that are overpowered the past few years which is what has caused the spike in DPS at the top end.
3. These changes will hurt those at the low end the most as you will still have to 'weave' if you want to do good DPS damage so they still won't be able to do more challenging content.

I'm not a top end player so I can't agree or disagree with these points but I am appreciating hearing from more experienced players as to how these changes may impact us.

merpins · July 2022

No

TPishek wrote: »

I like the Nightblade and Templar changes. Buff timers being extended are cool. The dot changes are horrific. Light attack changes are net negative, but wouldn't have been the end of the world if the power was transferred somewhere else.

I hate the new templar main skills. By messing up the timer for Backlash/Purifying Light, it makes is super awkward to use (on top of a huge nerf). And though the animation for the new Jabs is ok... It's not as nice as the old one, and by reducing the number of attacks to 3 down from 4, plus the 21% reduction of damage on top of that and the changes to dots and aoes, it pretty much kills the Deadly Strike set as a viable option for anyone since it was already basically a Templar exclusive set due to the spammable. It feels a bit crunchier to use despite being .8 second cast time. They should have just sped up the old animation and reduced the damage a bit, not that Templar needed a damage reduction in PVE.

TPishek · July 2022

No

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

TPishek wrote: »

I like the Nightblade and Templar changes. Buff timers being extended are cool. The dot changes are horrific. Light attack changes are net negative, but wouldn't have been the end of the world if the power was transferred somewhere else.

I hate the new templar main skills. By messing up the timer for Backlash/Purifying Light, it makes is super awkward to use (on top of a huge nerf). And though the animation for the new Jabs is ok... It's not as nice as the old one, and by reducing the number of attacks to 3 down from 4, plus the 21% reduction of damage on top of that and the changes to dots and aoes, it pretty much kills the Deadly Strike set as a viable option for anyone since it was already basically a Templar exclusive set due to the spammable. It feels a bit crunchier to use despite being .8 second cast time. They should have just sped up the old animation and reduced the damage a bit, not that Templar needed a damage reduction in PVE.

It still hits decently hard. I think the justification for the 21% cut was misguided, since you can weave it already, but it feels nicer to use.

Mr_Stach · July 2022

No

carly wrote: »

I've watched a few videos today put out by ESO content creators and without naming names, this is what I took away from them:

1. Basically they feel ZOS is scaling back LA and HA damage to what it used to be a few years ago.
2. The 'gap' is the fault of ZOS for putting out sets that are overpowered the past few years which is what has caused the spike in DPS at the top end.
3. These changes will hurt those at the low end the most as you will still have to 'weave' if you want to do good DPS damage so they still won't be able to do more challenging content.

I'm not a top end player so I can't agree or disagree with these points but I am appreciating hearing from more experienced players as to how these changes may impact us.

But the Light and Heavy Attack Damage and Weaving is the least worrying thing and people Latch onto it.

33% DoT Damage Nerf is what's the big deal, everyone will be dealing significantly less damage and taking much longer to kill things.

This not only lowers the damage ceiling, which isn't really that bad honestly, it lowers the damage floor. EVERYONE will do worse. This means if you struggled in Trials it will be much worse. Combat is going to be a lot slower. And I really think that's a bad direction to go.

merpins · July 2022

No

TPishek wrote: »

MovesLikeJaguar wrote: »

TPishek wrote: »

I like the Nightblade and Templar changes. Buff timers being extended are cool. The dot changes are horrific. Light attack changes are net negative, but wouldn't have been the end of the world if the power was transferred somewhere else.

I hate the new templar main skills. By messing up the timer for Backlash/Purifying Light, it makes is super awkward to use (on top of a huge nerf). And though the animation for the new Jabs is ok... It's not as nice as the old one, and by reducing the number of attacks to 3 down from 4, plus the 21% reduction of damage on top of that and the changes to dots and aoes, it pretty much kills the Deadly Strike set as a viable option for anyone since it was already basically a Templar exclusive set due to the spammable. It feels a bit crunchier to use despite being .8 second cast time. They should have just sped up the old animation and reduced the damage a bit, not that Templar needed a damage reduction in PVE.

It still hits decently hard. I think the justification for the 21% cut was misguided, since you can weave it already, but it feels nicer to use.

It feels nicer to use because they made it .8 seconds. Take that into consideration and it feels crunchier. If they just sped up the animation of the old skill to .8 and reduced the damage a bit, you'd probably think it's even better than this new version. Because it would be better.

Foxtrot39 · July 2022

No

They say they aim for accessability but all the change will crash the DPS of the casual and handicaped playerbase, it will be an incovinence at worst for the top end player it was supposed to affect the most

The side grade to DoT is bad, 20s is too much 10-15s would be better to keep dynamic fight rather than spamming the same skill while they tick away

Ground AOE are getting straight out nerfed with duration increase due to MOB/boss/player just moving out of it making them more of a waste of a skill slot

HoT changes will be devastating to trials and HM if NPC dot still have 1s ticks, making tanking and healing needlessly more problematic and difficult causing player that could clear certain content to no longer be able to do so

Class skill being gutted by more than 30% should be a big no, crystal frag and jab needed a nerf but getting gutted between 30-40% may just end up killing the entire skill

Other skill being nerfed despite being largely unused is rather questionable

Dark cloak change for me seems bad, I use it to top off my health and mitigate DoT, wich is the worst thing to deal with as tank as it ingore your defence, now it will be worse than the current one until I drop below 50%

Reapers mark seems to well miss the mark with its changes, a heal dependent on a target dying is effectively completely useless when there is no trash mob around in boss fight and the delay between using said skill and killing the target is enough to get you killed most of the time

Assassin's blade is gonna be yet another generic execute with the 400% linear scalign at 50% hp and again, a kill dependant healign is too easly made useless in most scenarios

There are welcomed changes but too many unwelcomed ones touching core systems for the worst

p00tx · July 2022

No

Amottica wrote: »

I would be more interested in seeing how many hours of PTS testing has been done with the current load by those who do not like the PTS patch notes?

I keep seeing you post this in different threads, and now I'm curious how much time you've spent on the pts proving the rest of the community wrong.

SalamanNZ · July 2022

Mixed

From what I've seen I am unimpressed. I understand why they are thinking this way, (Blizzard did something similar and that worked out great for them.) Stat squishing seems to be how they reduce the boredom of new players when there's lots of expansions and gear options they must work through to become competitive. Dumb it down and level the playing field. Unfortunately that turns away their core player base and soon they will lose most of these core players to the next "Big Thing"

I just tried Maelstrom Veteran. On the Live servers it's easy mode. On PTS I struggled with the first round. LOL. My DPS is almost halved.

JanTanhide · July 2022

No

Absolutely not. Sick of these radical changes every few months. This time it's even worse than before. Look how many ESO Streamers are gone now. Every nerf patch we lose quite a few Vet players.

Amottica · July 2022

Other (post)

Stamicka wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I would be more interested in seeing how many hours of PTS testing has been done with the current load by those who do not like the PTS patch notes?

i've done multiple parses with my sorc with changes to my builds to see what i can do to make it bearable. Stam sorc, as in the stamina morphs for sorc, are utter garbage. Anyone using them in this update is making a mistake.

i've done less with my frost warden, but still enough to get a feeling for the changes (it's really really bad if you were wondering)

I've also some some stamdk to try out the new whip which is crazy strong. it honestly feels stronger than live crystal weapon.

I'd say in the one day since the changes went live, i've spent 5 hours on the PTS testing stuff and I feel confident to say that this is the worst update i've ever seen on PTS.
And yes, I test every PTS.
Just go back through the previous update comments and you'll find me posting parses and checking sets and skill changes.

Interesting but there is a big question remaining after reading your post.

What makes it unbearable? Is it merely that there are changes in timing for your rotations, skills not working as they should (based on PTS notes), or what?

Changes in the rotation and timing are something players will have to get used to and something Zenimax expects considering OT skills have longer durations. A reduction in our parses, for those who do weave very well, is another thing that is expected and intended in this PTS considering. This part is somewhat a good thing since we have seen power creep over the years making a lot of older content rather trivial.

So it’s good to reduce power creep because it has made older content too easy… but the intention as stated by ZOS was to make all Vet content more accessible to more players. How does reducing power creep aid in this goal? Cause it’s not just people who weave well that saw DPS reductions.

Since players who were challenged performing the light weave, that does require a high degree of repetitive precision, and the player who was either refreshing DoTs to often or not often enough they should see a buff to their damage while the higher end players will see a slight reduciotn.

I am surprised no one is commenting on the core of my post you quoted. The person said their experience testing this on the PTS was unbearable yet there is nothing that should cause pain outside of getting used to the different timing in a rotation.

So again, what is so unbearable?

Pevey · July 2022

No

Amottica wrote: »

Stamicka wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I would be more interested in seeing how many hours of PTS testing has been done with the current load by those who do not like the PTS patch notes?

i've done multiple parses with my sorc with changes to my builds to see what i can do to make it bearable. Stam sorc, as in the stamina morphs for sorc, are utter garbage. Anyone using them in this update is making a mistake.

i've done less with my frost warden, but still enough to get a feeling for the changes (it's really really bad if you were wondering)

I've also some some stamdk to try out the new whip which is crazy strong. it honestly feels stronger than live crystal weapon.

I'd say in the one day since the changes went live, i've spent 5 hours on the PTS testing stuff and I feel confident to say that this is the worst update i've ever seen on PTS.
And yes, I test every PTS.
Just go back through the previous update comments and you'll find me posting parses and checking sets and skill changes.

Interesting but there is a big question remaining after reading your post.

What makes it unbearable? Is it merely that there are changes in timing for your rotations, skills not working as they should (based on PTS notes), or what?

Changes in the rotation and timing are something players will have to get used to and something Zenimax expects considering OT skills have longer durations. A reduction in our parses, for those who do weave very well, is another thing that is expected and intended in this PTS considering. This part is somewhat a good thing since we have seen power creep over the years making a lot of older content rather trivial.

So it’s good to reduce power creep because it has made older content too easy… but the intention as stated by ZOS was to make all Vet content more accessible to more players. How does reducing power creep aid in this goal? Cause it’s not just people who weave well that saw DPS reductions.

Since players who were challenged performing the light weave, that does require a high degree of repetitive precision, and the player who was either refreshing DoTs to often or not often enough they should see a buff to their damage while the higher end players will see a slight reduciotn.

I am surprised no one is commenting on the core of my post you quoted. The person said their experience testing this on the PTS was unbearable yet there is nothing that should cause pain outside of getting used to the different timing in a rotation.

So again, what is so unbearable?

Did you miss the post with numbers showing Zos did not actually nerf weaving? It is just as important as ever with these changes. They nerfed light attacks, but they did not nerf weaving.

Tannus15 · July 2022

No

Amottica wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I would be more interested in seeing how many hours of PTS testing has been done with the current load by those who do not like the PTS patch notes?

i've done multiple parses with my sorc with changes to my builds to see what i can do to make it bearable. Stam sorc, as in the stamina morphs for sorc, are utter garbage. Anyone using them in this update is making a mistake.

i've done less with my frost warden, but still enough to get a feeling for the changes (it's really really bad if you were wondering)

I've also some some stamdk to try out the new whip which is crazy strong. it honestly feels stronger than live crystal weapon.

I'd say in the one day since the changes went live, i've spent 5 hours on the PTS testing stuff and I feel confident to say that this is the worst update i've ever seen on PTS.
And yes, I test every PTS.
Just go back through the previous update comments and you'll find me posting parses and checking sets and skill changes.

Interesting but there is a big question remaining after reading your post.

What makes it unbearable? Is it merely that there are changes in timing for your rotations, skills not working as they should (based on PTS notes), or what?

Changes in the rotation and timing are something players will have to get used to and something Zenimax expects considering OT skills have longer durations. A reduction in our parses, for those who do weave very well, is another thing that is expected and intended in this PTS considering. This part is somewhat a good thing since we have seen power creep over the years making a lot of older content rather trivial.

the skills are firing fine, the dot management is easy vs the dummy.

The biggest problem is that people are misunderstanding what the "power creep" is.
People think that somehow classes have got stronger, and it's not true. At it's basic level, sorc hasn't really changed. The power creep is the sets and buffs that are available.
In an attempt to balance the gear changes they are nerfing classes.

The idea before was everything we balanced around julianos / hundings rage. You can see this by looking at sets like burning spell weave. Julianos gives you 300 spell damage. BSW gives you 490 spell damage with 60% uptime = 294 spell damage.

the older trial sets were in line with this, like moondancer, but siroria was far stronger with the perfected bonus AND a max of 520 spell damage.
Bahsei, Relequen and coral riptide push this even further, and buff and debuffs like major vulnerability, major slayer, major berserk etc are all reasonably easy to obtain and are considered normal for a trial group.

The issue with this patch is that it's nerfing skills and classes to make builds with these benefits in line with where dps was 4 years ago. So if you do a 3m or 6m parse with rele and kinra you get 45k dps, which is what I was getting about 4 years ago with julianos and BSW.

If I use those basic builds from 4 years ago? well under 40k. They are making top end gear a requirement for entry level dps and basic crafted setups which have been staples for years obsolete to the point of "don't use this".

Amottica · July 2022

Other (post)

p00tx wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I would be more interested in seeing how many hours of PTS testing has been done with the current load by those who do not like the PTS patch notes?

I keep seeing you post this in different threads, and now I'm curious how much time you've spent on the pts proving the rest of the community wrong.

@p

p00tx wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I would be more interested in seeing how many hours of PTS testing has been done with the current load by those who do not like the PTS patch notes?

I keep seeing you post this in different threads, and now I'm curious how much time you've spent on the pts proving the rest of the community wrong.

@p00tx

How does stating I am more interested in hearing feedback from actual testing of these changes prove anyone wrong?

It does not. In fact, the most interesting thread, and serious of posts in that thread, I have seen came from actual testing. It stated details of their actual experience and the difference in damage from specific skills as well as what their stats were. They noted there was very little difference.

Another post that was interesting noted how worthless DoTs were in killing a specific mob that takes only a few seconds. It was pointed out by someone else how it is never worth using a DoT unless the DoT can go through at least half of its ticks of damage.

These discussions based on real information from actual testing vs guessing how things will work out are the most beneficial to the point they are more likely to get Zenimax's attention regardless of whether they are positive or negative about the changes.

So yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am just more interested in the opinions that are based on actual experience. Nothing more or less.

Wildbloom · July 2022

Yes

As a returning player who isn't affected by change-fatigue, yes, I like the changes. Because it puts everyone back where they were when I quit three years ago DPS wise.

I came back to the game a few weeks ago and was floored by how easy it was. Content that I thought would be a challenge (veteran dungeons, even DLC vets) were as easy as normal dungeons were back when I quit. Said normal dungeons are now an insultingly easy bore. I can't speak for higher end players, since I don't do anything harder than daily vet dungeons, but any change that makes the content I'm consuming harder is very welcome for me personally. I don't know enough about the higher end of the game, the meta, or any of that to accurately comment on how good or bad it would be for, say, Trials or Vet trials, but for overland and dungeons, I think the nerfs add much-needed challenge to game.

p00tx · July 2022

No

Amottica wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I would be more interested in seeing how many hours of PTS testing has been done with the current load by those who do not like the PTS patch notes?

I keep seeing you post this in different threads, and now I'm curious how much time you've spent on the pts proving the rest of the community wrong.

@p

p00tx wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

I would be more interested in seeing how many hours of PTS testing has been done with the current load by those who do not like the PTS patch notes?

I keep seeing you post this in different threads, and now I'm curious how much time you've spent on the pts proving the rest of the community wrong.

@p00tx

How does stating I am more interested in hearing feedback from actual testing of these changes prove anyone wrong?

It does not. In fact, the most interesting thread, and serious of posts in that thread, I have seen came from actual testing. It stated details of their actual experience and the difference in damage from specific skills as well as what their stats were. They noted there was very little difference.

Another post that was interesting noted how worthless DoTs were in killing a specific mob that takes only a few seconds. It was pointed out by someone else how it is never worth using a DoT unless the DoT can go through at least half of its ticks of damage.

These discussions based on real information from actual testing vs guessing how things will work out are the most beneficial to the point they are more likely to get Zenimax's attention regardless of whether they are positive or negative about the changes.

So yes, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am just more interested in the opinions that are based on actual experience. Nothing more or less.

I've seen several posts on this forum showing the opposite of what you're saying. Every video on Youtube about this shows results that are significantly lower than before. All of the math that's been posted shows numbers much lower than previous numbers. I understand you support these changes and are very excited about them, so I don't fault you, but your question has been answered many times over already.

Ratzkifal · July 2022

No

Might wanna add "week 1" to the title and do this every week, because things are probably going to change still and it allows for people to change their opinions from one week to the next.

Mr_Stach · July 2022

No

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Might wanna add "week 1" to the title and do this every week, because things are probably going to change still and it allows for people to change their opinions from one week to the next.

Kind of does raise the question, 9 times out of 10 changes from week 1 go live. There's typically a lot of back and forth between players but this time it's generally unanimous that there's several really bad changes. I'm curious what the next weeks will hold.

shadyjane62 · July 2022

No

I don't know how the actual changes to Templar will work out. I won't bother reinstalling the PTS. I'm still angry about the AWA. But looking at the animation makes me sick. I won't be able to keep playing Templar as I will get upset all over again every time I think about jabs.

Every time I think Zos can't do anything worse, they achieve it.

Zederok · July 2022

Yes

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

Usually I’m eager to theorycraft a new build that takes into account all the changes, but after a couple of really horrible parses with the warden, I have no drive. I’ll just wait to see what it looks like when it goes live, then copy/paste something from YouTube or whatever.

Hitting a spammable skill 10-20 times while waiting on dots to run out isn't fun. The new horrible, stupid secret behind this change is that DOTS aren't necessary beyond maybe two AOE DOTs. You can get equal amounts of damage over time by just stacking more passive buffs on the front bar, like fighter's guild +3% weapon damage, and using more of the spam skill instead of various DOT skills. It's just spam spam spam spam. They did this before on another PTS years ago when nerfing DOTS to the ground, now it's back and lamer than ever

Im in the exact opposite boat. Hitting 10 different buttons in a rotation isn't fun. Give me 1 or 2 main buttons with a bunch of support buffs/debuffs/oh crap buttons and the game plays much smoother and fun letting me keep my eye on the screen not on my hotbars. I know im in the minority but I hate weaving and I hatehaving to rotate 10 different abilities to kill a boss for optimum dps.

merpins · July 2022

No

Zederok wrote: »

MudcrabAttack wrote: »

Usually I’m eager to theorycraft a new build that takes into account all the changes, but after a couple of really horrible parses with the warden, I have no drive. I’ll just wait to see what it looks like when it goes live, then copy/paste something from YouTube or whatever.

Hitting a spammable skill 10-20 times while waiting on dots to run out isn't fun. The new horrible, stupid secret behind this change is that DOTS aren't necessary beyond maybe two AOE DOTs. You can get equal amounts of damage over time by just stacking more passive buffs on the front bar, like fighter's guild +3% weapon damage, and using more of the spam skill instead of various DOT skills. It's just spam spam spam spam. They did this before on another PTS years ago when nerfing DOTS to the ground, now it's back and lamer than ever

Im in the exact opposite boat. Hitting 10 different buttons in a rotation isn't fun. Give me 1 or 2 main buttons with a bunch of support buffs/debuffs/oh crap buttons and the game plays much smoother and fun letting me keep my eye on the screen not on my hotbars. I know im in the minority but I hate weaving and I hatehaving to rotate 10 different abilities to kill a boss for optimum dps.

I think it should be a mixture of durations on Dots and Aoes. Some should be 20 seconds and some should be 10, and based on your playstyle you should pick the one you want. Obviously 10 second duration will deal more damage so most people will use them, but if you want an easier rotation, you could choose to take that 10k overall dps loss to run only 20 second dots (assuming they have the damage they have now, which I'd hope they'd be buffed to be similar to the 10 second dots). Most end-game players prefer the way it's on live since it's more dynamic, and you don't spend most of your time just spamming a spammable. And I'm inclined to agree somewhat.

francesinhalover · July 2022

No

Idc if they nerf light attacks, but please do just that, and add some buffs to classes that struggle to reach 120k

Ratzkifal · July 2022

No

Mr_Stach wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Might wanna add "week 1" to the title and do this every week, because things are probably going to change still and it allows for people to change their opinions from one week to the next.

Kind of does raise the question, 9 times out of 10 changes from week 1 go live. There's typically a lot of back and forth between players but this time it's generally unanimous that there's several really bad changes. I'm curious what the next weeks will hold.

Oh, I'm not curious. Week 2 rarely has significant changes. Week 3 is the most important one and Week 4 usually fixes what Week 3 broke.
But yeah, I also don't think player opinion will change all that much if ZOS doesn't do anything uncharacteristically drastic and actually backs down. I just want the dissent to be well-documented so nobody can claim later that this was just the early outrage and players are actually happy with the changes.

virtus753 · July 2022

No

francesinhalover wrote: »

Idc if they nerf light attacks, but please do just that, and add some buffs to classes that struggle to reach 120k

Current 120k or PTS 120k? There's a huge difference in damage there.

XiangliSYD · July 2022

I think ZOS just want to force meta changes so people spend money/time leveling/farming new char/sets and buying respec/changes.

It is obvious the flavour of the next patch will be NB at this stage.

merpins · July 2022

No

virtus753 wrote: »

francesinhalover wrote: »

Idc if they nerf light attacks, but please do just that, and add some buffs to classes that struggle to reach 120k

Current 120k or PTS 120k? There's a huge difference in damage there.

Someone that reaches 120k in the PTS, assuming calculated with Major Slayer in mind, would be dealing like 160k dps on live if they're a sorc, warden, or templar.

sneakymitchell · July 2022

Yes

People are overacting when clearly it changes how rotations work. It’s more using spamable skills than light attack weaving on your next dot