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Does Anyone Actually Like the Majority of the PTS Changes?
merpins
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Just Curious
Does Anyone Actually Like the Majority of the PTS Changes? 494 votes
Yes
8%
43 votes
No
78%
390 votes
Mixed
9%
49 votes
Other (post)
0%
4 votes
See Poll
1%
8 votes
3
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divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoI don't care about dungeon DPS, but changes are just random. Aimless. And at the same time, absolutely wild in magnitude, ruining all the known interactions and staples. I lost any desire to play this game anymore.
I'll monitor patchnotes for a while, but if nothing changes, I'll uninstall.30 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If the question is whether anyone likes the changes, the answer is obviously, yes. Some agree because they honestly like the changes. Some agree to troll. Some don't fully understand the impact, but will agree with the principle, even if that isn't actually what the changes will do. Some just want to be the contrarian.
If you're asking if I like the changes, nope. Anything that causes this much negativity in the community is absolutely not a good thing in my opinion, regardless of any good intentions and regardless of how much it might be perceived to help the game long term. My take is that any proposed set of changes that does this to the community is a bad thing. Full stop.20 -
merpins✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Noredspecter23 wrote: »Anything that causes this much negativity in the community is absolutely not a good thing in my opinion, regardless of any good intentions and regardless of how much it might be perceived to help the game long term. My take is that any proposed set of changes that does this to the community is a bad thing. Full stop.
I agree. It's unhealthy and hurts the active community. It breeds toxicity, divides players, and causes many to step away if not fully leave the game, which is not healthy for an almost 10 year old MMO.
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DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭Other (post)I'm on the fence. Got the PTS downloaded. I'm going to run on it tomorrow.I drink and I stream things.4 -
BretonMage✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Noredspecter23 wrote: »If the question is whether anyone likes the changes, the answer is obviously, yes. Some agree because they honestly like the changes. Some agree to troll. Some don't fully understand the impact, but will agree with the principle, even if that isn't actually what the changes will do. Some just want to be the contrarian.
If you're asking if I like the changes, nope. Anything that causes this much negativity in the community is absolutely not a good thing in my opinion, regardless of any good intentions and regardless of how much it might be perceived to help the game long term. My take is that any proposed set of changes that does this to the community is a bad thing. Full stop.
Tbh, I think some people like the spirit of the changes, but I don't see how anyone could like having their own damage nerfed.1 -
Lapin_Logic✭✭✭✭✭YesIf every DoT and every light attack is standardised, then only the overpowered will hate the changes.
everyone is becoming equal, it is "Our" damage now comrade, no longer will the powerful gatekeep trials with demands of "Link achievement" of this corporate meritocracy........
Or you can change up your bar set up and have "fun" in the "game".7 -
MudcrabAttack✭✭✭✭✭NoUsually I’m eager to theorycraft a new build that takes into account all the changes, but after a couple of really horrible parses with the warden, I have no drive. I’ll just wait to see what it looks like when it goes live, then copy/paste something from YouTube or whatever.
Hitting a spammable skill 10-20 times while waiting on dots to run out isn't fun. The new horrible, stupid secret behind this change is that DOTS aren't necessary beyond maybe two AOE DOTs. You can get equal amounts of damage over time by just stacking more passive buffs on the front bar, like fighter's guild +3% weapon damage, and using more of the spam skill instead of various DOT skills. It's just spam spam spam spam. They did this before on another PTS years ago when nerfing DOTS to the ground, now it's back and lamer than everEdited by MudcrabAttack on 13 July 2022 05:568 -
Nord_Raseri✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoLapin_Logic wrote: »If every DoT and every light attack is standardised, then only the overpowered will hate the changes.
everyone is becoming equal, it is "Our" damage now comrade, no longer will the powerful gatekeep trials with demands of "Link achievement" of this corporate meritocracy........
Or you can change up your bar set up and have "fun" in the "game".
Yep, those players that were doing 50k dps were overpowered, now that they're doing 25-35k they're finally in line with people that dropped from 130k to 110k and are definitely able to do vet dlc trials now...
Veit ég aðég hékk vindga meiði á nætr allar níu, geiri undaðr og gefinn Oðni, sjálfr sjálfum mér, á þeim meiði er manngi veit hvers hann af rótum rennr.47 -
MetallicMonk✭✭✭✭✭NoLapin_Logic wrote: »If every DoT and every light attack is standardised, then only the overpowered will hate the changes.
everyone is becoming equal, it is "Our" damage now comrade, no longer will the powerful gatekeep trials with demands of "Link achievement" of this corporate meritocracy........
Or you can change up your bar set up and have "fun" in the "game".
It's sad because even if I disagree with how you want the game to be, ZoS isn't even making it how you're envisioning it currently.
They've gutted class identity first with hybridization changes and now with this even more so, as well as making the game just more tedious and unfun to play more than ever with the upcoming changes. With these changes it gates newer/less capable players out of even more content it literally has the opposite goal of what you're believing.20 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoLapin_Logic wrote: »If every DoT and every light attack is standardised, then only the overpowered will hate the changes.
everyone is becoming equal, it is "Our" damage now comrade, no longer will the powerful gatekeep trials with demands of "Link achievement" of this corporate meritocracy........
Or you can change up your bar set up and have "fun" in the "game".
The problem is, they're not.
The guys who were doing 135 are still doing six digits. You went from doing 25 to 10. Or from 10 to 2.2k.
This isn't a great equalizer, except in the sense that everyone just took a serious hit. The problem is, the lower your DPS, the greater your loss is. The rich get marginally less rich, while the poor become destitute, sleeping on the street with signs that say, "will parse for table scraps."40 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other (post)I would be more interested in seeing how many hours of PTS testing has been done with the current load by those who do not like the PTS patch notes?
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Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭NoI would be more interested in seeing how many hours of PTS testing has been done with the current load by those who do not like the PTS patch notes?
i've done multiple parses with my sorc with changes to my builds to see what i can do to make it bearable. Stam sorc, as in the stamina morphs for sorc, are utter garbage. Anyone using them in this update is making a mistake.
i've done less with my frost warden, but still enough to get a feeling for the changes (it's really really bad if you were wondering)
I've also some some stamdk to try out the new whip which is crazy strong. it honestly feels stronger than live crystal weapon.
I'd say in the one day since the changes went live, i've spent 5 hours on the PTS testing stuff and I feel confident to say that this is the worst update i've ever seen on PTS.
And yes, I test every PTS.
Just go back through the previous update comments and you'll find me posting parses and checking sets and skill changes.7 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Other (post)I would be more interested in seeing how many hours of PTS testing has been done with the current load by those who do not like the PTS patch notes?
i've done multiple parses with my sorc with changes to my builds to see what i can do to make it bearable. Stam sorc, as in the stamina morphs for sorc, are utter garbage. Anyone using them in this update is making a mistake.
i've done less with my frost warden, but still enough to get a feeling for the changes (it's really really bad if you were wondering)
I've also some some stamdk to try out the new whip which is crazy strong. it honestly feels stronger than live crystal weapon.
I'd say in the one day since the changes went live, i've spent 5 hours on the PTS testing stuff and I feel confident to say that this is the worst update i've ever seen on PTS.
And yes, I test every PTS.
Just go back through the previous update comments and you'll find me posting parses and checking sets and skill changes.
Interesting but there is a big question remaining after reading your post.
What makes it unbearable? Is it merely that there are changes in timing for your rotations, skills not working as they should (based on PTS notes), or what?
Changes in the rotation and timing are something players will have to get used to and something Zenimax expects considering OT skills have longer durations. A reduction in our parses, for those who do weave very well, is another thing that is expected and intended in this PTS considering. This part is somewhat a good thing since we have seen power creep over the years making a lot of older content rather trivial.
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Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoI would be more interested in seeing how many hours of PTS testing has been done with the current load by those who do not like the PTS patch notes?
i've done multiple parses with my sorc with changes to my builds to see what i can do to make it bearable. Stam sorc, as in the stamina morphs for sorc, are utter garbage. Anyone using them in this update is making a mistake.
i've done less with my frost warden, but still enough to get a feeling for the changes (it's really really bad if you were wondering)
I've also some some stamdk to try out the new whip which is crazy strong. it honestly feels stronger than live crystal weapon.
I'd say in the one day since the changes went live, i've spent 5 hours on the PTS testing stuff and I feel confident to say that this is the worst update i've ever seen on PTS.
And yes, I test every PTS.
Just go back through the previous update comments and you'll find me posting parses and checking sets and skill changes.
Interesting but there is a big question remaining after reading your post.
What makes it unbearable? Is it merely that there are changes in timing for your rotations, skills not working as they should (based on PTS notes), or what?
Changes in the rotation and timing are something players will have to get used to and something Zenimax expects considering OT skills have longer durations. A reduction in our parses, for those who do weave very well, is another thing that is expected and intended in this PTS considering. This part is somewhat a good thing since we have seen power creep over the years making a lot of older content rather trivial.
So it’s good to reduce power creep because it has made older content too easy… but the intention as stated by ZOS was to make all Vet content more accessible to more players. How does reducing power creep aid in this goal? Cause it’s not just people who weave well that saw DPS reductions.PC NA and Xbox NA14 -
DairyCat✭✭✭YesSo it’s good to reduce power creep because it has made older content too easy… but the intention as stated by ZOS was to make all Vet content more accessible to more players.
I don't remember them saying that at all. They aim was mostly at curbing damage from the top end of town and this is fairly hard to do without impacting the lower end of town.
Only part about accessibility was making buffs and dots easier to manage rotation wise. They didn't say they're buffing damage so you can access more content.The main focuses in Update 35 are twofold: improving accessibility to the game’s combat by increasing the duration of outgoing ability effects (such as damage over time, buffs, and debuffs) and a continuation of the attempt to quell some of the obscene damage production at the high end.1 -
sabresandiego_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesFrom a pvp perspective this patch seems really good. Heals may have finally been reduced to an acceptable level.Ali Dreadsabre -Necromancer
Ali Sabre -Nightblade0 -
Pevey✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NoSo it’s good to reduce power creep because it has made older content too easy… but the intention as stated by ZOS was to make all Vet content more accessible to more players.
I don't remember them saying that at all. They aim was mostly at curbing damage from the top end of town and this is fairly hard to do without impacting the lower end of town.
Only part about accessibility was making buffs and dots easier to manage rotation wise. They didn't say they're buffing damage so you can access more content.The main focuses in Update 35 are twofold: improving accessibility to the game’s combat by increasing the duration of outgoing ability effects (such as damage over time, buffs, and debuffs) and a continuation of the attempt to quell some of the obscene damage production at the high end.
They clarified in the eso live that when they spoke of accessibility they did not mean in terms of actual disability. They meant in terms of widening the group of players attempting vet content. So, yes, they specifically said this.
Pretty amazed really the mental hoops some people are jumping through to justify support for these changes.21 -
DairyCat✭✭✭Yes
ESO live they're talking about progression curve because they perceive the biggest difference between high end and low end of players is skill so making rotations simpler and light attacks do less damage bridges the delta that these skill differences create. A gentler skill curve means the content thresholds stretch across more of the line than a steeper curve which makes designing future content easier for a wider audience.So it’s good to reduce power creep because it has made older content too easy… but the intention as stated by ZOS was to make all Vet content more accessible to more players.
I don't remember them saying that at all. They aim was mostly at curbing damage from the top end of town and this is fairly hard to do without impacting the lower end of town.
Only part about accessibility was making buffs and dots easier to manage rotation wise. They didn't say they're buffing damage so you can access more content.The main focuses in Update 35 are twofold: improving accessibility to the game’s combat by increasing the duration of outgoing ability effects (such as damage over time, buffs, and debuffs) and a continuation of the attempt to quell some of the obscene damage production at the high end.
They clarified in the eso live that when they spoke of accessibility they did not mean in terms of actual disability. They meant in terms of widening the group of players attempting vet content. So, yes, they specifically said this.
Pretty amazed really the mental hoops some people are jumping through to justify support for these changes.
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FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭No
ESO live they're talking about progression curve because they perceive the biggest difference between high end and low end of players is skill so making rotations simpler and light attacks do less damage bridges the delta that these skill differences create. A gentler skill curve means the content thresholds stretch across more of the line than a steeper curve which makes designing future content easier for a wider audience.So it’s good to reduce power creep because it has made older content too easy… but the intention as stated by ZOS was to make all Vet content more accessible to more players.
I don't remember them saying that at all. They aim was mostly at curbing damage from the top end of town and this is fairly hard to do without impacting the lower end of town.
Only part about accessibility was making buffs and dots easier to manage rotation wise. They didn't say they're buffing damage so you can access more content.The main focuses in Update 35 are twofold: improving accessibility to the game’s combat by increasing the duration of outgoing ability effects (such as damage over time, buffs, and debuffs) and a continuation of the attempt to quell some of the obscene damage production at the high end.
They clarified in the eso live that when they spoke of accessibility they did not mean in terms of actual disability. They meant in terms of widening the group of players attempting vet content. So, yes, they specifically said this.
Pretty amazed really the mental hoops some people are jumping through to justify support for these changes.
You're not reading your own words. The skill curve is worse because content will require the most DPS possible to make up for losses on the backend.
They universally nerfed all damage, meaning all content is automatically more difficult (in many cases now unclearable) for middle and lower end players.Edited by FlamingBeard on 13 July 2022 05:5919 -
ApoAlaia✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭NoChanges that elicit feelings of inadequacy are going to also elicit a negative reaction from me.
The build currently on the PTS makes me feel inadequate and doesn't provide a clear path to becoming adequate while at the same time undoing a year of progress.9 -
AdamLAD✭✭✭✭✭YesAs a PvP player. Everything that was overperforming, carrying players has been nerfed. Jabs, Whip, Oakensoul, Healing, Crystal Weapon, Caluurions, heavy attack builds and more. Its Beautiful. However I have never done a PARSE in the 5 years ive played so I don't exactly know the repercussions for the LA, HA changes. I will say though DPS is absolutely ridiculous as to high it is compared to what it used to be few years ago. People hitting 100k with ease now (before this update). 100k is more than enough to complete everything in the game lol. But like I say I don't PvE so I could be completely wrong and would rathe be educated further by a GOD PvEr. There is the problem of the new sets that are absolutely ridiculously broken as React made a post about. Don't even fine tune that, COMPLETELY change it. I should of chosen mixed as my option lolEdited by AdamLAD on 13 July 2022 06:153
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DairyCat✭✭✭Yes
How is the skill curve worse?FlamingBeard wrote: »
ESO live they're talking about progression curve because they perceive the biggest difference between high end and low end of players is skill so making rotations simpler and light attacks do less damage bridges the delta that these skill differences create. A gentler skill curve means the content thresholds stretch across more of the line than a steeper curve which makes designing future content easier for a wider audience.So it’s good to reduce power creep because it has made older content too easy… but the intention as stated by ZOS was to make all Vet content more accessible to more players.
I don't remember them saying that at all. They aim was mostly at curbing damage from the top end of town and this is fairly hard to do without impacting the lower end of town.
Only part about accessibility was making buffs and dots easier to manage rotation wise. They didn't say they're buffing damage so you can access more content.The main focuses in Update 35 are twofold: improving accessibility to the game’s combat by increasing the duration of outgoing ability effects (such as damage over time, buffs, and debuffs) and a continuation of the attempt to quell some of the obscene damage production at the high end.
They clarified in the eso live that when they spoke of accessibility they did not mean in terms of actual disability. They meant in terms of widening the group of players attempting vet content. So, yes, they specifically said this.
Pretty amazed really the mental hoops some people are jumping through to justify support for these changes.
You're not reading your own words. The skill curve is worse because content will require the most DPS possible to make up for losses on the backend.
They universally nerfed all damage, meaning all content is automatically more difficult (in many cases now unclearable) for middle and lower end players.
They universally nerfed all damage but this has nothing to do with skill curve.
Skill curve is referring to the fact that if ZOS nerf light attacks, it's going to impact the player who can weave say 0.98 light attacks per second more than the player who can only weave 0.45 light attacks per second. You're just talking about flat DPS thresholds.
If you want to convince ZOS to walk these changes back or take a different approach, you'll need to demonstrate that the lower end is impacted more. Just saying "waah I'm doing less damage" is not going to do it because ZOS expect everyone to do less damage. I'm fully on board with adjusting the DPS thresholds or adjusting DPS check mechanics in certain dungeons and trials based on the new skill curve that players can achieve. I'm not against adjusting the curve itself though, I think that's healthy for the game in the long term even if it causes short term pains.2 -
Stamicka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoAs a PvP player. Everything that was overperforming, carrying players has been nerfed. Jabs, Whip, Oakensoul, Healing, Crystal Weapon, Caluurions, heavy attack builds and more. Its Beautiful. However I have never done a PARSE in the 5 years ive played so I don't exactly know the repercussions for the LA, HA changes. I will say though DPS is absolutely ridiculous as to high it is compared to what it used to be few years ago. People hitting 100k with ease now (before this update). 100k is more than enough to complete everything in the game lol. But like I say I don't PvE so I could be completely wrong and would rathe be educated further by a GOD PvEr. There is the problem of the new sets that are absolutely ridiculously broken as React made a post about. Don't even fine tune that, COMPLETELY change it. I should of chosen mixed as my option lol
Interesting that you're ok with this patch as a PvPer. Outside of the changes themselves, ZOS showed their anti-competitive player philosophy here pretty clearly. If they think the skill gap is a problem, it won't be long till they do something extreme for PvP too (more drastic than it already has been). My biggest issue is with the philosophy behind the changes.
Regardless, even this patch isn't great for PvP. One of the most important things in PvP is timing your burst for when a person's heals or buffs drop. With heals that are now 10-20 seconds, and buffs that also got extended durations, this will be harder to do. Making buff management easier is just a way to blur the lines between a good PvPer and a bad one.Edited by Stamicka on 13 July 2022 07:09PC NA and Xbox NA7 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭MixedIn terms of pvp, if everyone is nerfed then it's a level playing field. But what I don't like is the constant changes to everything. It's honestly exhausting.8 -
PrincessOfThieves✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoLapin_Logic wrote: »If every DoT and every light attack is standardised, then only the overpowered will hate the changes.
everyone is becoming equal, it is "Our" damage now comrade, no longer will the powerful gatekeep trials with demands of "Link achievement" of this corporate meritocracy........
Or you can change up your bar set up and have "fun" in the "game".
Oh, the "gatekeeping" will be way worse if this goes live. They aren't changing the content, they're nerfing players... Which means that less players will be able to do it. Less people will be able to carry unexperienced players.
And if you're pugging, queue times are about to get worse. Tanks and healers are already discouraged from using group finder because average dps is very low, and it's much lower in this pts patch. Some people reported their damage dropping to 15k.11 -
merpins✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭No.PrincessOfThieves wrote: »Lapin_Logic wrote: »If every DoT and every light attack is standardised, then only the overpowered will hate the changes.
everyone is becoming equal, it is "Our" damage now comrade, no longer will the powerful gatekeep trials with demands of "Link achievement" of this corporate meritocracy........
Or you can change up your bar set up and have "fun" in the "game".
Oh, the "gatekeeping" will be way worse if this goes live. They aren't changing the content, they're nerfing players... Which means that less players will be able to do it. Less people will be able to carry unexperienced players.
And if you're pugging, queue times are about to get worse. Tanks and healers are already discouraged from using group finder because average dps is very low, and it's much lower in this pts patch. Some people reported their damage dropping to 15k.
25k*. They added Major Slayer to the trial dummy, so early parses usually don't take into consideration that their damage is 10% higher than normal despite being 25% lower. Also my stam sorc went down by 40k damage, and my stamden went down by 30k damage. Some classes got it better than others, but sorc and warden really got big hits. And though Templar faired well in comparison, their two best skills now feel like garbage to use, so even a 20k dps loss feels more like a 40k dps loss or more when I don't even want to play my templar anymore since ZoS made the skills feel like hot garbage to use (looking at you, new jabs).0
