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Please eliminate the magika streak penalty for Magsorcs.
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DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheEndBringer wrote: »People usually just say "do this" without thinking of consequences.
2 steaks puts you at 30 meters. That's outside the range of every leap skill and eliminates the ability of any melee build catching you. In order to topple charge a sorc, I would need to run over 8 meters in 2 seconds. That's doable by sprinting with 2 Swift or Wild Hunt, both of which require losing damage.
Otherwise ball you got to worry about are ranged skills as you sprint away, but if you run ball of lighting this is further negated. 2 streaks and you're free from combat if you do it right. Use LOS.
The first streak costs 3780. The next 5027. So for 8800 you have escaped 99% of combat to reset (again, if you use it correctly). Even if you do it third time, that's 15.4k. As someone who has to spam shadowy to even get inside a keep (more in this below) I don't feel like this is that big of a deal. Even on a stam focused character you'll have 20k mag or there abouts. That seems like a fair tradeoff to end up 45 meters away in 3 seconds.
"But if I streak three times I'll run out of mag." That's the cost of resetting combat. Shadowy disguise is actually less efficient at this (see below).
I'll never understand why people try and use shadowy disguise as either a reason to let streak off the chain or to nerf shadowy. Let's compare.
There are no counters to prevent you from streaking other than negate, and no one is dropping a negate to stop a streaker. Other than menders I guess, but that's a pretty rare thing.
There are 3 detect skills, detect pots, and several attack skills that render shadowy disguise useless. There are several skills and CP designed specifically to protect you from a nightblade.
You don't need to streak to get inside a keep. I have to spam shadowy disguise to enter a keep as well as the inside because they give guards 30ish meters to break stealth. I just spent 15k mag just to get through the gate house to cover on the sides. Yes, even if those guards are dead on the wall, I'll get pulled out of stealth going through the open door. Then I'll still have to get by the rest of the guards.
2 streaks places you outside of immediate danger, except for some ranged skills, which themselves can be rendered useless by ball out lightning.
Shadowy Disguise doesn't zip me around the battlefield. I'm still sneaking and, even with wild hunt, I'm not faster than you in combat. Use your many weapons to yank me out and kill me in under 4 seconds.
Sorcs also have insanely higher survivability than NBs. So trying to compare defensive measures is not fair. At least 50% of the NB toolkit is useless. Our only burst heal actually eats our health and is just as likely to heal someone else than us.
Someone will inevitably bring up dots. Yes I can use shadowy disguise to ignore dots but let's do the math.
If you hit me with haunting curse, I either will die (whether directly from the damage or because I'm pulled from stealth) or I have to keep shadowy disguise 100%.
Haunting Curse lasts 12 seconds. At minimum I'm hitting shadowy disguise 3 times, but in reality with latency I'm hitting it 4 times to be safe.
That's 3780 a pop. Times 4 that's 15,120. Right now we have builds running around with burst heals that can crit over 20k for about 4k to 5k mag, including sorcs. Those builds don't need to defend against your dots because they can out heal everything you drop on them. So yeah I think 15k mag is a fair tradeoff to not drop dead from one damage over time skill.
In conclusion they are wildly different skills, so comparing them isn't fair. But if you really want to compare them, you're getting way more value on a sorc with streak because you have a deep toolkit for damage AND survivability, so 2 streaks is plenty to escape most often, and a third is doable. Being able to do 4+ would just add yet another way for players to 1v12 around obstacles like this is double dare.
Right now, for the cost of 3 streaks, you would get 4 if there was no ramping cost. That's 60 meters in 4 seconds.
There is no one in this game that can run 15 meters in one second, much less 30 in two seconds. Will their speed help them cut down your advantage? Sure if they're running Swift or wild hunt, but both comes with sacrifice. That will allow them to possibly leap you, but they are building for that speed. My magplar is built specifically to catch streakers. Everything should have a counter.
Just like other defensive skills in this game, you have to use it properly. If you're streaking out in the open you'll be less effective than using LOS. And if you choose to run streak over BoL, then you can't really complain about them hitting you with long range skills.TechMaybeHic wrote: »Let you mount in combat, but just with 0 mount Stam. Problem solved without abuse potential
Here's why this is bad idea. Again people don't look at the consequences.
First your mount stamina regens to full in 3 seconds. But for this example you only need 1 second to get enough stamina.
Your faction, let's say AD, is hitting BRK with EP defending. AD is narrowly winning because they have infinite spawns at sej.
A small group of red dispatch to Sej cut them off.
One AD comes out of Sej to see red putting up a ram. They call out in zone chat.
If AD chooses to send some back to protect their spawn, those players have to run down the hill for at least a time before they can possibly mount. This gives EP a chance to flip Sej. AD might not even bother to send anyone.
But if you can mount in combat, they deliver enough yellow to murder those EP in about 20 seconds of ride time. Even if you start out with no stamina, one tick will give you enough to sprint there.
You would speed transport up faster than the map is built for, because objectives are too close together. I agree getting stuck in combat sucks. It seems to happen more to me if I'm solo than I'm group, oddly enough. Sometimes if I stop and kill an NPC, like a wolf, that will break it. Otherwise I'm sneaking from keep to keep.
Yet at the same time I'll be standing outside a keep getting hit. I'm sitting here attacking people and combat is all around me. I'll crouch once and combat will drop, which also forces me to lose Relentless Focus and Frenzied Momentum buffs.
They just need to put a timer on a radius around you for combat. No one within 45 meters fighting after 60 seconds should break combat.
Streak not as efficient as cloak? Come on, you can run at full speed while invisible, and you don’t have a cost increase penalty on it. This is what happens when people post without thinking.
I don’t think streak needs the cost removed, but it needs to be cut down, not because of people using it to run away, but to chase people who are much faster than you are. It’s not just people who run a set, speed is in the CP and mundus stones. It’s not a huge loss to run *really* fast and for a lot longer than a Sorc can keep going.
You cannot run while invisible. To stay stealthed or invisible (these are different states) you have to be crouched. If you're vampire you sneak at walk speed. If you sacrifice damage you can run 2 Swift or wild hunt but you still aren't as fast in combat as a sprinter.
You are also blocking stamina regen every second you move.
Streak is more efficient as an escape tool than shadowy disguise. SD is more about resetting your attack and maneuvering around the battle. It allows you to escape players who are not good at or choose not to invest in detection.
For the price it costs me to hit 4 SD's to escape certain death you can be 60 meters away.
If I'm chasing a sorc, they will get away every time unless I hit lotus fan before your streak fires. Then you'll pull me along but that timing isn't easy and it's mostly luck.
They are wildly different skills. Streak is both an escape tool and either a top shelf stun or an immunity to ranged attacks. Shadowy disguise is like a submarine diving to escape getting blown up and resetting it's attack run. They are very unique which is why people who play other classes complain about them.I drink and I stream things.0 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheEndBringer wrote: »To stay stealthed or invisible (these are different states) you have to be crouched.
This is wrong. You don't need crouch state to be invisible, you can permacloak if you have enough mana regen.
Can't sprint in either state tho.
You can use Concealed Weapon for +25% movespeed, which with major exp pushes you to +55%, 45% to go for the cap. Cap in combat is only achievable in CP. But any snare will crush your hopes and dreams anyway.Our only burst heal actually eats our health and is just as likely to heal someone else than us.
It's healing you or someone before you. You can target your heals so there is no ally before your cursor, it will heal you specifically.
I have no problems with NB survivability honestly, you just need to be creative and have an escape plan built up ahead.
Unlike sorc, where you can yolo and doublestreak away.PhoenixGrey wrote: »You and a lot of forum pvp'ers in this thread think of sorc as the ultimate OP class with zero gameplay to show for.
Strawman.Not sure if you have played
Idk how did you miss Youtube below my posts. I've played almost everything.2 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheEndBringer wrote: »To stay stealthed or invisible (these are different states) you have to be crouched.
This is wrong. You don't need crouch state to be invisible, you can permacloak if you have enough mana regen.
Can't sprint in either state tho.
You can use Concealed Weapon for +25% movespeed, which with major exp pushes you to +55%, 45% to go for the cap. Cap in combat is only achievable in CP. But any snare will crush your hopes and dreams anyway.Our only burst heal actually eats our health and is just as likely to heal someone else than us.
It's healing you or someone before you. You can target your heals so there is no ally before your cursor, it will heal you specifically.
I have no problems with NB survivability honestly, you just need to be creative and have an escape plan built up ahead.
Unlike sorc, where you can yolo and doublestreak away.PhoenixGrey wrote: »You and a lot of forum pvp'ers in this thread think of sorc as the ultimate OP class with zero gameplay to show for.
Strawman.Not sure if you have played
Idk how did you miss Youtube below my posts. I've played almost everything.
You CANNOT be stealthed or invisible when not crouched. You can't. If you are standing up and hit shadowy disguise it crouches you and you move as if crouched. Even if you hit an invisible pot it puts you into a crouched state. In both instances your character is under crouched mechanics. You move at crouch speed.
Also the concealed weapon buff is misleading. If you already have no sneak penalty and you're running Swift or wild hunt, you barely notice the increase. It's a blip. You are faster running 2 Swift or wild hunt with surprise attack than without those and concealed weapon. This is easily tested.
Either way, I don't see see this has to do with streak.I drink and I stream things.0 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheEndBringer wrote: »You CANNOT be stealthed or invisible when not crouched. You can't. If you are standing up and hit shadowy disguise it crouches you and you move as if crouched.
Get Darloc Brae and check yourself what game considers crouch.You move at crouch speed.
Where did you get that? No, you are not moving at crouch speed if you don't crouch and cloak. You move at non-sprint run speed.If you already have no sneak penalty and you're running Swift or wild hunt, you barely notice the increase
It's +25%. It's more than wild hunt. It's huge, idk what you mean about "barely notice".
You don't notice increase outside of combat, because wild hunt gives +45% and +20% green star CP and +10% red star CP, +30% major exp and you are at cap of +100%.Either way, I don't see see this has to do with streak.
You literally started it.5 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheEndBringer wrote: »You CANNOT be stealthed or invisible when not crouched. You can't. If you are standing up and hit shadowy disguise it crouches you and you move as if crouched.
Get Darloc Brae and check yourself what game considers crouch.You move at crouch speed.
Where did you get that? No, you are not moving at crouch speed if you don't crouch and cloak. You move at non-sprint run speed.If you already have no sneak penalty and you're running Swift or wild hunt, you barely notice the increase
It's +25%. It's more than wild hunt. It's huge, idk what you mean about "barely notice".
You don't notice increase outside of combat, because wild hunt gives +45% and +20% green star CP and +10% red star CP, +30% major exp and you are at cap of +100%.Either way, I don't see see this has to do with streak.
You literally started it.
I used Darloc on bow bow for a long time. I know exactly how it works.
If you are standing and hit shadowy you are crouched and you move at crouch speed. Your cursor closes and says hidden. Maybe you are confused because the moving animation looks like walking.
You are sneaking. Your stamina doesn't regen. You suffer the movement penalty unless vampire, running the green CP or a set that cancels the penalty. Darloc will sparkle in that state.Edited by DrSlaughtr on 15 April 2022 16:17I drink and I stream things.0 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭@TheEndBringer idk how can you be so confidently incorrect.
I've literally pointed you on the ways to test things, it's 5 minute to check ingame, if you don't want to look bad.
https://youtu.be/gF-nSz99O-0
Cloak speed is running speed. Crouching speed is way below that on this character, because it's not vampy.
https://youtu.be/BQ08idimG0c
Darloc Brae is not active without crouch.
Stamina regen is active during cloak without crouch.6 -
Lole✭✭✭Amazing idea… streak is not allrdy overloaded af lol… maybe it should also heal 5000 and put major breach on everyone it hits for 30 sec5 -
axi✭✭✭✭✭
People can't run faster than You can streak unless You are talking about some 1 kilomoter race which streak is not made for. Just make a simple comparision, who will reach 50 or even 100 meters distance first , a streaking sorc or someone with capped speed? Of course it will be sorc.
Streak is one of the strongest abilities in the game the way it is atm combining escapability, gap closing and unblockable , undodgable AoE stun and it deserves no buff if anything maybe even tuning down the stun component. Streak is not some ultra long range distance mobility tool, stop treating it as such.2 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭@TheEndBringer idk how can you be so confidently incorrect.
I've literally pointed you on the ways to test things, it's 5 minute to check ingame, if you don't want to look bad.https://youtu.be/gF-nSz99O-0
Cloak speed is running speed. Crouching speed is way below that on this character, because it's not vampy.https://youtu.be/BQ08idimG0c
Darloc Brae is not active without crouch.
Stamina regen is active during cloak without crouch.
You are running wild hunt I assume. 45% speed buff out of combat.
You have no sneak penalty if you're vamp.
So you are moving so fast that when you crouch or hit shadowy you use the fastest animation. It will do this whether you are stealthed or invisible. It has always worked this way. If you sneak faster than walk your animation looks like you're running. You aren't running. And you don't recovery stamina. Because you're crouched. Your eye closes as you can see in your video.
I'm not going over this again.I drink and I stream things.1 -
divnyi✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheEndBringer wrote: »@TheEndBringer idk how can you be so confidently incorrect.
I've literally pointed you on the ways to test things, it's 5 minute to check ingame, if you don't want to look bad.https://youtu.be/gF-nSz99O-0
Cloak speed is running speed. Crouching speed is way below that on this character, because it's not vampy.https://youtu.be/BQ08idimG0c
Darloc Brae is not active without crouch.
Stamina regen is active during cloak without crouch.
You are running wild hunt I assume. 45% speed buff out of combat.
You have no sneak penalty if you're vamp.
So you are moving so fast that when you crouch or hit shadowy you use the fastest animation. It will do this whether you are stealthed or invisible. It has always worked this way. If you sneak faster than walk your animation looks like you're running. You aren't running. And you don't recovery stamina. Because you're crouched. Your eye closes as you can see in your video.
I'm not going over this again.
Lmao this amount of denial.
You can see my crouch speed in the first vid - it's dead slow. In fact you can see the gear too, there is no wild hunt, no speed bonuses, I've put off light gear for the sake of the vid. You can see how speed changes if I turn it on or off, both without invis and inside invis. Because cloak speed is run speed, not crouch speed.
I don't recover stamina in the second vid? Seriously? What's those numbers popping up above stamina bar then?2 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheEndBringer wrote: »@TheEndBringer idk how can you be so confidently incorrect.
I've literally pointed you on the ways to test things, it's 5 minute to check ingame, if you don't want to look bad.https://youtu.be/gF-nSz99O-0
Cloak speed is running speed. Crouching speed is way below that on this character, because it's not vampy.https://youtu.be/BQ08idimG0c
Darloc Brae is not active without crouch.
Stamina regen is active during cloak without crouch.
You are running wild hunt I assume. 45% speed buff out of combat.
You have no sneak penalty if you're vamp.
So you are moving so fast that when you crouch or hit shadowy you use the fastest animation. It will do this whether you are stealthed or invisible. It has always worked this way. If you sneak faster than walk your animation looks like you're running. You aren't running. And you don't recovery stamina. Because you're crouched. Your eye closes as you can see in your video.
I'm not going over this again.
Lmao this amount of denial.
You can see my crouch speed in the first vid - it's dead slow. In fact you can see the gear too, there is no wild hunt, no speed bonuses, I've put off light gear for the sake of the vid. You can see how speed changes if I turn it on or off, both without invis and inside invis. Because cloak speed is run speed, not crouch speed.
I don't recover stamina in the second vid? Seriously? What's those numbers popping up above stamina bar then?
If I'm wrong then that's on me but I've never seen it work that way. I've always never paid that much attention to it.
Either way, it's funny how streak threads just end up being about shadowy disguise.I drink and I stream things.1 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »@TheEndBringer idk how can you be so confidently incorrect.
I've literally pointed you on the ways to test things, it's 5 minute to check ingame, if you don't want to look bad.https://youtu.be/gF-nSz99O-0
Cloak speed is running speed. Crouching speed is way below that on this character, because it's not vampy.https://youtu.be/BQ08idimG0c
Darloc Brae is not active without crouch.
Stamina regen is active during cloak without crouch.
You are running wild hunt I assume. 45% speed buff out of combat.
You have no sneak penalty if you're vamp.
So you are moving so fast that when you crouch or hit shadowy you use the fastest animation. It will do this whether you are stealthed or invisible. It has always worked this way. If you sneak faster than walk your animation looks like you're running. You aren't running. And you don't recovery stamina. Because you're crouched. Your eye closes as you can see in your video.
I'm not going over this again.
Lmao this amount of denial.
You can see my crouch speed in the first vid - it's dead slow. In fact you can see the gear too, there is no wild hunt, no speed bonuses, I've put off light gear for the sake of the vid. You can see how speed changes if I turn it on or off, both without invis and inside invis. Because cloak speed is run speed, not crouch speed.
I don't recover stamina in the second vid? Seriously? What's those numbers popping up above stamina bar then?
If I'm wrong then that's on me but I've never seen it work that way. I've always never paid that much attention to it.
Either way, it's funny how streak threads just end up being about shadowy disguise.
It ends up that way when you try to minimize the huge advantages of shadowy disguise as some kind of hilarious and perverse justification to keep streak expensive and nerfed.
The stacking cost penalty is too high. I’m not saying remove it, but we should consider reducing the penalty.
We’re already taking a frag proc rate nerf next patch, FFS.1 -
PhoenixGrey✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »@TheEndBringer idk how can you be so confidently incorrect.
I've literally pointed you on the ways to test things, it's 5 minute to check ingame, if you don't want to look bad.https://youtu.be/gF-nSz99O-0
Cloak speed is running speed. Crouching speed is way below that on this character, because it's not vampy.https://youtu.be/BQ08idimG0c
Darloc Brae is not active without crouch.
Stamina regen is active during cloak without crouch.
You are running wild hunt I assume. 45% speed buff out of combat.
You have no sneak penalty if you're vamp.
So you are moving so fast that when you crouch or hit shadowy you use the fastest animation. It will do this whether you are stealthed or invisible. It has always worked this way. If you sneak faster than walk your animation looks like you're running. You aren't running. And you don't recovery stamina. Because you're crouched. Your eye closes as you can see in your video.
I'm not going over this again.
Lmao this amount of denial.
You can see my crouch speed in the first vid - it's dead slow. In fact you can see the gear too, there is no wild hunt, no speed bonuses, I've put off light gear for the sake of the vid. You can see how speed changes if I turn it on or off, both without invis and inside invis. Because cloak speed is run speed, not crouch speed.
I don't recover stamina in the second vid? Seriously? What's those numbers popping up above stamina bar then?
If I'm wrong then that's on me but I've never seen it work that way. I've always never paid that much attention to it.
Either way, it's funny how streak threads just end up being about shadowy disguise.
Because cloak is the best mobility/ escape / 1vX skill in the game.
It was buffed recently as well and is a great 1 skill free get out of jail card.
However it's a class defining skill which deserves more buffs than nerfs IMO. Same as streak or some other class defining skill.
I am not sure what they were thinking while nerfing the magplar bubble. The one mag class which was competing with stam setups has gone back to being irrelevant.1 -
WordsOfPower✭✭✭xylena_lazarow wrote: »With all the speed creep and strong easily spammable gap closers like Toppling Charge, Streak is no longer the free getaway it once was. I see no harm in making it less restrictive, especially when NB Cloak is still unrestricted.
I agree. I play both Stam and Mag Sorc and have a dodge roll play style on both. Can confirm that if numbered in open world, Streak is now useless at getting away because gap closers just catch up with you instantly.
And if you run the defensive one then you have no offensive stun, unless you run Sellestrix.
Honestly sorc is more difficult to stay at range than it used to be1 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭TheEndBringer wrote: »@TheEndBringer idk how can you be so confidently incorrect.
I've literally pointed you on the ways to test things, it's 5 minute to check ingame, if you don't want to look bad.https://youtu.be/gF-nSz99O-0
Cloak speed is running speed. Crouching speed is way below that on this character, because it's not vampy.https://youtu.be/BQ08idimG0c
Darloc Brae is not active without crouch.
Stamina regen is active during cloak without crouch.
You are running wild hunt I assume. 45% speed buff out of combat.
You have no sneak penalty if you're vamp.
So you are moving so fast that when you crouch or hit shadowy you use the fastest animation. It will do this whether you are stealthed or invisible. It has always worked this way. If you sneak faster than walk your animation looks like you're running. You aren't running. And you don't recovery stamina. Because you're crouched. Your eye closes as you can see in your video.
I'm not going over this again.
Lmao this amount of denial.
You can see my crouch speed in the first vid - it's dead slow. In fact you can see the gear too, there is no wild hunt, no speed bonuses, I've put off light gear for the sake of the vid. You can see how speed changes if I turn it on or off, both without invis and inside invis. Because cloak speed is run speed, not crouch speed.
I don't recover stamina in the second vid? Seriously? What's those numbers popping up above stamina bar then?
I tried it out. You were right. My bad. Been playing this game forever and I still learn things I never noticed before. Thanks for setting me straightI drink and I stream things.1 -
DrSlaughtr✭✭✭✭✭
✭PhoenixGrey wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »TheEndBringer wrote: »@TheEndBringer idk how can you be so confidently incorrect.
I've literally pointed you on the ways to test things, it's 5 minute to check ingame, if you don't want to look bad.https://youtu.be/gF-nSz99O-0
Cloak speed is running speed. Crouching speed is way below that on this character, because it's not vampy.https://youtu.be/BQ08idimG0c
Darloc Brae is not active without crouch.
Stamina regen is active during cloak without crouch.
You are running wild hunt I assume. 45% speed buff out of combat.
You have no sneak penalty if you're vamp.
So you are moving so fast that when you crouch or hit shadowy you use the fastest animation. It will do this whether you are stealthed or invisible. It has always worked this way. If you sneak faster than walk your animation looks like you're running. You aren't running. And you don't recovery stamina. Because you're crouched. Your eye closes as you can see in your video.
I'm not going over this again.
Lmao this amount of denial.
You can see my crouch speed in the first vid - it's dead slow. In fact you can see the gear too, there is no wild hunt, no speed bonuses, I've put off light gear for the sake of the vid. You can see how speed changes if I turn it on or off, both without invis and inside invis. Because cloak speed is run speed, not crouch speed.
I don't recover stamina in the second vid? Seriously? What's those numbers popping up above stamina bar then?
If I'm wrong then that's on me but I've never seen it work that way. I've always never paid that much attention to it.
Either way, it's funny how streak threads just end up being about shadowy disguise.
Because cloak is the best mobility/ escape / 1vX skill in the game.
It was buffed recently as well and is a great 1 skill free get out of jail card.
However it's a class defining skill which deserves more buffs than nerfs IMO. Same as streak or some other class defining skill.
I am not sure what they were thinking while nerfing the magplar bubble. The one mag class which was competing with stam setups has gone back to being irrelevant.
It is not the best escape and it wasn't buffed. They corrected a bug in while adding several new counters to our stealth attacks while also buffing all three detect skills. Now they're adding a mythic that will give you a free 20k damage shield on roll dodge. So if you shot slippery and evasive you will competely negate most nightblade damage.
Streak has no such counters aside from leaps and those are not very effective because you have to time it to work, and in doing so use massive amounts of mag or stam to keep on you.
There is no skill that just prevents you from streaking other than negate. Meanwhile there are towards of 10 skills and potions that can stop me from going invisible.
Even if I do get away, going 15 meters for me in shadowy costs a whole lot more than one hit it streak. Meanwhile I'm trying to duck flares and people with the blinky light trying to catch me.
So let's do this. Give everyone a skill or potion that prevents enemies for streaking within 8 meters and take away the ramping cost. That would suck, right?I drink and I stream things.0
