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The Correct way to deal with OP Vampires
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Lord_Draevan✭✭✭✭✭
✭The simplest solution for this Devouring Swarm problem without nerfing vamps is to make it impossible to gain Ultimate points while an Ultimate ability is active. This way the Swarm still does the same damage, but players would actually have to put some thought into it instead of spamming it mindlessly and gaining unlimited Ultimate points to continue spamming.Edited by Lord_Draevan on 29 April 2014 17:02I'm a man of few words. Any questions?NA/PC server1 -
Gaudrath✭✭✭I've seen ONE guy solo resources and FOUR guys take a keep, you dont lnow what you're talking about.
Ooooh, the fabled PvDoor skills! I'm not talking about taking keeps at 4AM in the morning when everyone's asleep.
Try to do that when those keeps are actually being defended, then you can come here and tell me off.
I just can't believe people are defending anything which allows one player to solo 20+ players. What the hell.
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firestorm_rmb16_ESOSoul ShrivenShouldn't the lot of you melee scrubs just be spamming Shield Bash anyways?
Don't complain that Oranges taste like Oranges, when Tangerines clearly taste like oranges as well... It's sickening watching the lot of you forum goers *** and complain about 1 method of PvP and completely ignore the fact you are all abusing a 100>0 mechanic that not only stuns you for the duration, but also knocks you down so you can't even control your character.
God damn world, why do your gamers have sub 85 IQs0 -
Gaudrath✭✭✭firestorm_rmb16_ESO wrote: »Shouldn't the lot of you melee scrubs just be spamming Shield Bash anyways?
Don't complain that Oranges taste like Oranges, when Tangerines clearly taste like oranges as well... It's sickening watching the lot of you forum goers *** and complain about 1 method of PvP and completely ignore the fact you are all abusing a 100>0 mechanic that not only stuns you for the duration, but also knocks you down so you can't even control your character.
That needs a fix too. But a shield basher won't be able to solo an entire zerg. Yes, it's annoying. But it is not game-breaking.1 -
KiroElmarok✭✭✭Lissanah is very well know ep for the simple fact that she/he knows how to use the vamp and dk to slaughter... if only she didn't teacup when she killed off groups...
If its a guy, 'teabag'.
If its a girl, 'teacup'.
Edited by KiroElmarok on 29 April 2014 17:56Daggerfall Covenant - Dunmer - Dragon Knight1 -
Gaudrath✭✭✭That's "teabag". And I'm not surprised she does that. No-skill exploiter trolls usually do.2
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KiroElmarok✭✭✭She's actually the reason I use more then just silver bolt now..Daggerfall Covenant - Dunmer - Dragon Knight0
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kirnmalidus✭✭✭✭LGAllastair wrote: »If they go with that AoE hit cap BS that people mentioned is on PTS now, where AoEs will hit only up to 6 people regardless of how many you have around they will break the game not only for DKs but for every AoE build, making AoE weak even when you are surrounded by players encourages numbers and zergs and discourages organzied game play. It removes the ability of small organized groups to take down disorganized big zergs and pushes this game towards GW2 2.0. Not to mention if it affects AoE healings... can't even think of the mess and rage in the forums.
Did you bother to read the patch notes and update about the AoE cap? First of all, they made it clear that all abilities should have always had a six target AoE cap unless the ability clearly specifies otherwise. Abilities that that are hitting more than six targets are currently bugged.
They also made it clear that the cap either doesn't apply or is much higher for Alliance War abilities intended to be used in PvP.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/89420/area-of-effect-abilities-maximum-target-cap-clarification/p1Life of a Nightblade (Screenshot Tumblr)
“Attention Zenimax: Stamina builds don't hold up to magicka builds, and this is causing most of your class imbalance. It makes melee weapons and bows weaker than staves and class abilities. It makes medium and heavy armor less desirable than light armor. Fix this imbalance, and you'll address most of your balance issues.”
- @ruze84b14_ESO0 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭LGAllastair wrote: »
I do care a lot about how they fix this. If they nerf the DK class so that vampire DKs are not overpowered, us non-vampire DKs will be completly trash and then I'll be FORCED to go vampire to even be efficient.I honestly don't care how they go about fixing this, just so long as it gets fixed. While I find vampire fandom a little annoying, the only thing I really want is a semblance of balance for those of us who choose not to be vampires.
That said, if you all follow your logic through, there is not a single instance of this that does not involve a vampire, so in a way, the problem lies with the design of vampire abilities, even if only in conjunction with other abilities. So they can nerf two of the base classes, or they can fix vampire abilities...which is less likely to break the game?
If they go with that AoE hit cap BS that people mentioned is on PTS now, where AoEs will hit only up to 6 people regardless of how many you have around they will break the game not only for DKs but for every AoE build, making AoE weak even when you are surrounded by players encourages numbers and zergs and discourages organzied game play. It removes the ability of small organized groups to take down disorganized big zergs and pushes this game towards GW2 2.0. Not to mention if it affects AoE healings... can't even think of the mess and rage in the forums.
There are many ways to fix this that would be much worse than the current state of Vamp DKs. As with everything in game balancing there are always more ways to do it wrong than to do it right. I just hope ZOS does the later.
I actually agree. I do care how they fix it as well...just not in an emotional way like some here obviously do. My post was meant to imply that fixing the base classes in order to deal with a vampire imbalance issue was risky and probably a bad idea. I also agree that any sweeping changes to the game (like limiting aoe targets) would also be risky and probably a bad idea. The vamps may not like it, but logic is going to dictate changes to the vampire abilities that are causing the problem...hopefully they can find a way to change them that doesn't nerf vamps into the ground.
Changing the way Ultimates need to work HAS to happen. They are Ultimate abilities. They should not be the most used ability in your rotation.
Let me play the scenario out. We nerf Ultimate Cost Reduction and remove Ultimate generation when ultimate is active.
Things that will happen:
Batswarmers will no longer be able to spam it.
DK Standard will no longer be able to be spammed
All other Ultimates take a slight set back but are still able to be utilized.
THEN:
They prevent Bolt Escape and Mist Form to be used while carrying a Scroll.
Conclusion:
I doubt people will cry when a Mist Form vamp... just sits there. They can't kill anything, so who cares. It was the Bat Swarm that constantly healed them which was a problem.
DKs now have less Standard spammage than they did.
Only other change you would need is DR on Soft CC for like 2-5 seconds and PvP is back where it needs to be.
So.
Much.
This.
However, this may require a rework of Shooting Star since its designed to bestow Ultimate based on the number of enemies you hit (which may now be capped at 6) or else an exemption for this ability.0 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭So.
Much.
This.
However, this may require a rework of Shooting Star since its designed to bestow Ultimate based on the number of enemies you hit (which may now be capped at 6) or else an exemption for this ability.
It might not even require that. A simple ultimate cooldown will take care of it, say 10-15 seconds between activations (just for example, I haven't thought it out).0 -
LatinLegacy✭✭Best way to deal with OP Vamps is to not play PvP. Which is what most active ESO players seem to be doing now lol :P.Edited by LatinLegacy on 29 April 2014 19:332
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bloodenragedb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭honestly, people that whine about classes and cry for nerf's invalidate themselves as true gamers to me. in your youth, when you came against a boss in a rpg or adventure game, did you call the devs or publisher and demand a fix? no? then why should they do it here, they had beta after beta of people doing the same thing, and if you ask me, more people played the beta because it was free. if they didnt nerf the classes then, why should they now.
play the game and learn to counter attack, dont sit and cry because someone is better than you.1 -
NordJitsu✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Holycannoli wrote: »So.
Much.
This.
However, this may require a rework of Shooting Star since its designed to bestow Ultimate based on the number of enemies you hit (which may now be capped at 6) or else an exemption for this ability.
It might not even require that. A simple ultimate cooldown will take care of it, say 10-15 seconds between activations (just for example, I haven't thought it out).
Well the big change we need is just a hard cap on Ultimate Cost Reduction. Since 60% is the most you can get from any single source, I think the cap should be 60% (Vampire Stage 4.) Past that point, stacking gear, ect. would not affect the cost.1 -
Gaudrath✭✭✭bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »honestly, people that whine about classes and cry for nerf's invalidate themselves as true gamers to me. in your youth, when you came against a boss in a rpg or adventure game...
Wait, what? You're not serious are you? These are not raid bosses, they're players. Why the hell should I adapt to broken mechanics allowing some players to play as bosses? ZOS needs to fix this and soon, or they will nuke PvP before it even had the chance to get off the ground.1 -
xxslam48xxb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭The correct way to fight vampires is to call in the army and tell them to bring flamethrowers! Isnt that how they beat the mist in the movie "The Mist"?I wrote a poem that I titled, "The ganker's delight."
As you lay upon the ground, cry not little pawn.
The pain will pass as quickly as my blade did take you,
but my delight will last and you will respawn.
My heart simply cannot contain my joy, when I ply my trade.
The fault lies with you, your skill was lacking.
Now your salt is mine forever, can't you hear the laughing?
Once you were so proud and now you are reduced to this.
A miserable, loud deuced fool.
With every tear you drip, with every excuse you let slip.
All of your insecurities and worries bring a smile to my lip.
From your despair I have ripped endless glories,
but our affair is over now. Be afraid for I will return for more.
I have received many titles, to my allies I am The sniper Emperor and Grand champion hero of the Pact. However these titles mean little to me, it is the ones given to me by my victims that I prefer. To them I am "Xv1er", "trash", "no balls", "zerger", "noob", "cringe", "no skill", "camper", "100% new", "the reason this game is dying", "pathetic", "a sack of piece of [snip]", "mediocre", "absolute inbred", "beyond a virgin", "ganky dork", "fat smelly 40yr old virgin", "little girl", "daddy", "exploiting loser", and every [snipped] word known to man.0 -
Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Well the big change we need is just a hard cap on Ultimate Cost Reduction. Since 60% is the most you can get from any single source, I think the cap should be 60% (Vampire Stage 4.) Past that point, stacking gear, ect. would not affect the cost.
Yeah that works too. Either way prevents ultimate spam.
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Gaudrath✭✭✭Apparently, DKs also have a broken passive which allows them to actually regain 70% of their max stats (health, stamina, magicka) every time they use their Ultimate. Should be 70% of the ultimate cost, obviously meant to be balanced if you stack ultimate reduction, but players report it's straight up 70% no matter what.
So ZOS has a lot of work to do.0 -
reggielee✭✭✭✭let them fight each other while non vamps go do something else till its fixed?Mama always said the fastest way to a man's heart is through his chest.0 -
Gaudrath✭✭✭That's what I'm doing. There is little point in PvP-ing with a regular character right now. I just hope PvE will last me long enough for ZOS to fix this.0
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LGAllastair✭✭Well, that's not true. If you're in an organized guild PvP is still very fun, the occasional DK Vamp can be taken down when you're on TS and call it out, and they don't take keeps by themselves.
Focus on the big picture and do the best you can with what you have. I won't stop playing based on the possibility that I'll run into one of these guys.Edited by LGAllastair on 30 April 2014 13:120 -
afreemanb14_ESOSoul ShrivenThe problem I see on our campaign is that DC and AD have been trading emperorships for the past couple weeks in what appears to have been some organized cooperation, so we are up against groups of former emperors who are also vampires, DKs and Sorcs, etc. So it's not just dealing with one, it's dealing with groups of them in close quarters like keep interiors or between outer and inner walls where a whole group of them can use their sorc teleport to get into the middle of everyone, root, use their ultimates and aoe damage and destroy you.0
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Holycannoli✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Apparently, DKs also have a broken passive which allows them to actually regain 70% of their max stats (health, stamina, magicka) every time they use their Ultimate. Should be 70% of the ultimate cost, obviously meant to be balanced if you stack ultimate reduction, but players report it's straight up 70% no matter what.
So ZOS has a lot of work to do.
I hope that's been reported in game. I don't think it's being seen here in this thread.0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uq2-Zl1PETM