The Correct way to deal with OP Vampires

AshleyLee

Elder Scrolls Online -PvP, Auriel's Bow Aldmeri -Lissanah Fried Vampire
http://youtu.be/5j_V0VG4Yy8

killedbyping

What was that ? A correct way to fight OP Vampries is to Zerg him 50 vs 1 and still you have to use 5 or 6 Soul Magic Ultis to get him down ?
You are doing it wrong.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

aragornis

Going with full zerg on 1 player is correct way to kill him? Yes it is, when game is bugged and imbalanced as this one is...

killedbyping

aragornis wrote: »

Going with full zerg on 1 player is correct way to kill him? Yes it is, when game is bugged and imbalanced as this one is...

And what are you going to do if you happens to met a Vampire zerg team ?

aragornis

Do what all noobs have done, become a vampire i guess

Joykiller

Silence.

Gaudrath

killedbyping wrote: »

aragornis wrote: »

Going with full zerg on 1 player is correct way to kill him? Yes it is, when game is bugged and imbalanced as this one is...

And what are you going to do if you happens to met a Vampire zerg team ?

Die? If you need a zerg to bring down ONE vampire exploiter, nothing will help you if you run into MULTIPLE vampire exploiters.

Well, maybe if you got a team of exploiters on your side too, but I imagine a bunch of near-invulnerable dudes hacking away at each other would make up for quite a boring fight.

aragornis

Gaudrath wrote: »

killedbyping wrote: »

aragornis wrote: »

Going with full zerg on 1 player is correct way to kill him? Yes it is, when game is bugged and imbalanced as this one is...

And what are you going to do if you happens to met a Vampire zerg team ?

Die? If you need a zerg to bring down ONE vampire exploiter, nothing will help you if you run into MULTIPLE vampire exploiters.

Well, maybe if you got a team of exploiters on your side too, but I imagine a bunch of near-invulnerable dudes hacking away at each other would make up for quite a boring fight.

THIS, LOL!

ruzlb16_ESO

aragornis wrote: »

Going with full zerg on 1 player is correct way to kill him? Yes it is, when game is bugged and imbalanced as this one is...

Considering the claim that Vamps are so OP that they effortlessly solo 100s of players at a time, this one noticeably fails to kill anyone and burns down about as fast as any other 3k health player would against a zerg. And all because this team actually spread out rather than all clumping on top of her. You can get the same effect from the same tactics with many fewer players, too... you do get the fact that the more players you use against her the more powerful she becomes, right? That being the entire point of the build...? The fact they HAD a zerg makes it more impressive than a 2 or 3 man group doing it, tbh.

Gaudrath

ruzlb16_ESO wrote: »

aragornis wrote: »

Going with full zerg on 1 player is correct way to kill him? Yes it is, when game is bugged and imbalanced as this one is...

Considering the claim that Vamps are so OP that they effortlessly solo 100s of players at a time, this one noticeably fails to kill anyone and burns down about as fast as any other 3k health player would against a zerg. And all because this team actually spread out rather than all clumping on top of her. You can get the same effect from the same tactics with many fewer players, too... you do get the fact that the more players you use against her the more powerful she becomes, right? That being the entire point of the build...?

Which by definition makes that build broken. Or do you think there should be one special build that makes you stronger the more people there are around you... in a game boasting a PvP system designed to fit as many players on screen as currently possible?

Stay away, you say? Hmm, and how do we do that when the inner gates are down and the flag is being taken and they are chasing us up the stairs?

Spread out, you say? What happens when we are inevitably dealing with 10 players using this build? 20? 30? Can we spread out and stay away from them all? Of course we can, but that's called logging off, and is not the point of this game. Well, not yet.

Lord_Draevan

I'm a Vet 5 Dragonknight, 4 out of my 5 slotted abilites are fire damage, my greatsword is enchanted with fire damage and I've maxed out the Fighter's Guild Vamp/Daedra damage bonus... yet I still have trouble killing Vamps.
Why? Well, I found that out from someone in my Guild who's a vamp: he told us that all you have to do is equip a necklace of resist fire 1000 pts and you negate the fire penalty. These necklaces sell for 3-4k in most trade guilds.
So if you're wondering why fire isn't hurting Vamps much, that's why. And when you see an entire enemy group of 20-30 players all spamming Devouring Swarm and Vamp Mist, it's really disheartening.

ruzlb16_ESO

Gaudrath wrote: »

Which by definition makes that build broken. Or do you think there should be one special build that makes you stronger the more people there are around you... in a game boasting a PvP system designed to fit as many players on screen as currently possible?

Yes, I believe there should be multiple builds that become more powerful the more people are around you, and thus also less powerful the less people you have near you. I refer to them as 'PBAoE builds'. This turns out not to be as bizarre and odd an idea as you seem to believe it is; in fact, many of the skills available turn out to be better the more enemies are near you.

Stay away, you say? Hmm, and how do we do that when the inner gates are down and the flag is being taken and they are chasing us up the stairs?

When they've just had to go through two lengthy periods where you were stood on top of a wall lobbing ranged attacks at them when their PBAOE skill layout was completely worthless, you mean? So it's almost like some skills are better in some situations than other skills are? Dear god, it's like some Orwellian nightmare, isn't ? Skills that do different things from other skills IN THE SAME GAME!!!!!! Rain of fire from the skys, seas churn with blood, dogs and cats living together, etc etc. Get real. Use of certain skills in certain situations is the entire point of skills, otherwise we may as well just click the mouse button and have the game figure out what to do for us contextually.

Spread out, you say? What happens when we are inevitably dealing with 10 players using this build? 20? 30? Can we spread out and stay away from them all? Of course we can, but that's called logging off, and is not the point of this game. Well, not yet.

Well, the nature of the build means that even with 10 of them each vamp still isn't dreadfully effective, since they only get the unstoppability through being surrounded by enemy players. Root + Fire impulse spam would be my first reaction to a bat swarm vamp zerg, given that they're not healing very much from all standing round me, but that might be because I tend to react to things and pick the right skill for the right occasion. I understand that the correct response is actually to log on the forums and start crying 'nerf, nerf' and 'only single target skills are acceptable, all other types are cheating'.

Plus 'spread out' =/= 'everyone quickly get out of LOS of each other'. You should still be in range of at least half a dozen other players, which should include some healers. I do hope you realise you're posting this rubbish in a thread which starts with a video of exactly these tactics in action.

shimmyatwa_ESO

Maybe they should just scale everyone's stats to be exactly the same and disable all abilities. Then just give us clubs to hit each other with....but then somebody would probably complain that the other guys stick is bigger

LGAllastair

Honestly, I think the only thing that needs to be changed is the fact that you can build ultimate points with ultimates themselves, that would make the ultimate abilities what they are supposed to be, strong skills that you use to turn the tides of the fight. The fact that I can drop a standard on top of the other sometimes and that DK vamps can batswarm and mist for their way through 100s of players indefinitely is a design flaw, players are not supposed to be world bosses. If ZoS made it so while you have an ultimate active you can't build ultimate points all of those abilities would be more than fine. Balancing DK vampires in PvP is actually easier than it seems.

- Introduce soft CC immunity, basically, when you dodge roll out of talons you get immune to roots for 3-4 secs.
- Make it so ultimate damage does not generate ultimate points so people can't spam standards nor bat swarms.
- Make the mist from mist form targetable for single target effects without having to TAB target them. Also, don't let the faction indicator simbol disappear from mis form vamps, this way people see them coming and know who are allies and who are enemy vamps. And make it so whenever you use mist form while carrying the scroll you drop the scroll.

Those simple measures would ballance vamps and DK without nerfing them beyond recognition and dumbing down the game. However, this is too obvious for ZoS to see. They will likely break the entire game just to catter to a loud crying minority.

Bramir

I honestly don't care how they go about fixing this, just so long as it gets fixed. While I find vampire fandom a little annoying, the only thing I really want is a semblance of balance for those of us who choose not to be vampires.

That said, if you all follow your logic through, there is not a single instance of this that does not involve a vampire, so in a way, the problem lies with the design of vampire abilities, even if only in conjunction with other abilities. So they can nerf two of the base classes, or they can fix vampire abilities...which is less likely to break the game?

Zintair

LGAllastair wrote: »

Honestly, I think the only thing that needs to be changed is the fact that you can build ultimate points with ultimates themselves, that would make the ultimate abilities what they are supposed to be, strong skills that you use to turn the tides of the fight. The fact that I can drop a standard on top of the other sometimes and that DK vamps can batswarm and mist for their way through 100s of players indefinitely is a design flaw, players are not supposed to be world bosses. If ZoS made it so while you have an ultimate active you can't build ultimate points all of those abilities would be more than fine. Balancing DK vampires in PvP is actually easier than it seems.

- Introduce soft CC immunity, basically, when you dodge roll out of talons you get immune to roots for 3-4 secs.
- Make it so ultimate damage does not generate ultimate points so people can't spam standards nor bat swarms.
- Make the mist from mist form targetable for single target effects without having to TAB target them. Also, don't let the faction indicator simbol disappear from mis form vamps, this way people see them coming and know who are allies and who are enemy vamps. And make it so whenever you use mist form while carrying the scroll you drop the scroll.

Those simple measures would ballance vamps and DK without nerfing them beyond recognition and dumbing down the game. However, this is too obvious for ZoS to see. They will likely break the entire game just to catter to a loud crying minority.

Yes this is really what is needed. The concept of the Ultimate has moved to be the standard form of doing damage which doesn't make sense.

Reducing the ability to cast them indefinitely is what is needed. No need to dumb the game down when the fix is so clear.

I hope ZoS is reading.

LGAllastair

Bramir wrote: »

I honestly don't care how they go about fixing this, just so long as it gets fixed. While I find vampire fandom a little annoying, the only thing I really want is a semblance of balance for those of us who choose not to be vampires.

That said, if you all follow your logic through, there is not a single instance of this that does not involve a vampire, so in a way, the problem lies with the design of vampire abilities, even if only in conjunction with other abilities. So they can nerf two of the base classes, or they can fix vampire abilities...which is less likely to break the game?

I do care a lot about how they fix this. If they nerf the DK class so that vampire DKs are not overpowered, us non-vampire DKs will be completly trash and then I'll be FORCED to go vampire to even be efficient.

If they go with that AoE hit cap BS that people mentioned is on PTS now, where AoEs will hit only up to 6 people regardless of how many you have around they will break the game not only for DKs but for every AoE build, making AoE weak even when you are surrounded by players encourages numbers and zergs and discourages organzied game play. It removes the ability of small organized groups to take down disorganized big zergs and pushes this game towards GW2 2.0. Not to mention if it affects AoE healings... can't even think of the mess and rage in the forums.

There are many ways to fix this that would be much worse than the current state of Vamp DKs. As with everything in game balancing there are always more ways to do it wrong than to do it right. I just hope ZOS does the later.

Bramir

LGAllastair wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

I honestly don't care how they go about fixing this, just so long as it gets fixed. While I find vampire fandom a little annoying, the only thing I really want is a semblance of balance for those of us who choose not to be vampires.

That said, if you all follow your logic through, there is not a single instance of this that does not involve a vampire, so in a way, the problem lies with the design of vampire abilities, even if only in conjunction with other abilities. So they can nerf two of the base classes, or they can fix vampire abilities...which is less likely to break the game?

I do care a lot about how they fix this. If they nerf the DK class so that vampire DKs are not overpowered, us non-vampire DKs will be completly trash and then I'll be FORCED to go vampire to even be efficient.

If they go with that AoE hit cap BS that people mentioned is on PTS now, where AoEs will hit only up to 6 people regardless of how many you have around they will break the game not only for DKs but for every AoE build, making AoE weak even when you are surrounded by players encourages numbers and zergs and discourages organzied game play. It removes the ability of small organized groups to take down disorganized big zergs and pushes this game towards GW2 2.0. Not to mention if it affects AoE healings... can't even think of the mess and rage in the forums.

There are many ways to fix this that would be much worse than the current state of Vamp DKs. As with everything in game balancing there are always more ways to do it wrong than to do it right. I just hope ZOS does the later.

I actually agree. I do care how they fix it as well...just not in an emotional way like some here obviously do. My post was meant to imply that fixing the base classes in order to deal with a vampire imbalance issue was risky and probably a bad idea. I also agree that any sweeping changes to the game (like limiting aoe targets) would also be risky and probably a bad idea. The vamps may not like it, but logic is going to dictate changes to the vampire abilities that are causing the problem...hopefully they can find a way to change them that doesn't nerf vamps into the ground.

Zintair

Bramir wrote: »

LGAllastair wrote: »

Bramir wrote: »

I honestly don't care how they go about fixing this, just so long as it gets fixed. While I find vampire fandom a little annoying, the only thing I really want is a semblance of balance for those of us who choose not to be vampires.

That said, if you all follow your logic through, there is not a single instance of this that does not involve a vampire, so in a way, the problem lies with the design of vampire abilities, even if only in conjunction with other abilities. So they can nerf two of the base classes, or they can fix vampire abilities...which is less likely to break the game?

I do care a lot about how they fix this. If they nerf the DK class so that vampire DKs are not overpowered, us non-vampire DKs will be completly trash and then I'll be FORCED to go vampire to even be efficient.

If they go with that AoE hit cap BS that people mentioned is on PTS now, where AoEs will hit only up to 6 people regardless of how many you have around they will break the game not only for DKs but for every AoE build, making AoE weak even when you are surrounded by players encourages numbers and zergs and discourages organzied game play. It removes the ability of small organized groups to take down disorganized big zergs and pushes this game towards GW2 2.0. Not to mention if it affects AoE healings... can't even think of the mess and rage in the forums.

There are many ways to fix this that would be much worse than the current state of Vamp DKs. As with everything in game balancing there are always more ways to do it wrong than to do it right. I just hope ZOS does the later.

I actually agree. I do care how they fix it as well...just not in an emotional way like some here obviously do. My post was meant to imply that fixing the base classes in order to deal with a vampire imbalance issue was risky and probably a bad idea. I also agree that any sweeping changes to the game (like limiting aoe targets) would also be risky and probably a bad idea. The vamps may not like it, but logic is going to dictate changes to the vampire abilities that are causing the problem...hopefully they can find a way to change them that doesn't nerf vamps into the ground.

Changing the way Ultimates need to work HAS to happen. They are Ultimate abilities. They should not be the most used ability in your rotation.

Let me play the scenario out. We nerf Ultimate Cost Reduction and remove Ultimate generation when ultimate is active.

Things that will happen:

Batswarmers will no longer be able to spam it.

DK Standard will no longer be able to be spammed

All other Ultimates take a slight set back but are still able to be utilized.


THEN:

They prevent Bolt Escape and Mist Form to be used while carrying a Scroll.


Conclusion:

I doubt people will cry when a Mist Form vamp... just sits there. They can't kill anything, so who cares. It was the Bat Swarm that constantly healed them which was a problem.

DKs now have less Standard spammage than they did.


Only other change you would need is DR on Soft CC for like 2-5 seconds and PvP is back where it needs to be.

Infraction

They have to fix all of the bugged passives first before you can really consider rebalancing skills.

Lord_Draevan

Infraction wrote: »

They have to fix all of the bugged passives first before you can really consider rebalancing skills.

Patch 1.1 notes say that's all going to be fixed.

GravityX19

Root -> Negate -> Burst = GG

xxslam48xxb14_ESO

I think they should buff fighters guild powers. Silver bolt serves one purpose in pvp and it isnt even that great at its role. Other then silver bolt all the rest of the skills are rather worthless against a vampire and if you equip all of them your really going to have a bad time. That should not be the case, if there is a dedicated vampire slayer skill line it should be as op against vampires as vampires are against zergs.

I would gladly use all fighters guild abilites to become a dedicated vampire slayer for pvp groups if they buffed fighters guild, even if it caused me to be less effective when fighting things that werent vampires. Im just sick of all these edward wanna bes running around soloing everything in sight.

thestonyb16_ESO

get a grip, noobs. vampires aren't op, you are just playing bad. you give him free ultimate gains and free heals by surrounding him. our 3 man group kills vampires like nothing, usually a few noobs from our alliance quickly run to him while we are about to down him to give him free heals, but we simply draw him away with chains and finish him off before more newbies can swarm him to provide him with free heals. if you are just smashing your head against the keyboard, yes every player will destroy you, no matter how many you are. get over it.

Gaudrath

thestonyb16_ESO wrote: »

get a grip, noobs. vampires aren't op, you are just playing bad.

And you have absolutely no idea how PvP works in this game and treat campaigns as your own personal arena. Calling people noobs after spewing nonsense like this. Newsflash, your 3-man group is useless. Can you take a keep? No. Can you defend it? No. Can you take a scroll? No. Can you defend a scroll? No.

So what good are you? I don't care about your 3-man roaming group hunting solo vampires. Big deal. Much skill. Try hunting them in a 50vs50 fight. Vamp Sorcs/DK are OP against large groups... you know... the ones doing the actual work in Alliance vs Alliance war?

Cherryblossom

Truly find it hard to believe that their are people trying to defend an exploit.

moXrox

AshleyLee wrote: »

Elder Scrolls Online -PvP, Auriel's Bow Aldmeri -Lissanah Fried Vampire
http://youtu.be/5j_V0VG4Yy8

You need an army to kill one player.

chris.f.price_ESO

Have you ever heard of the spell Silver Bolts? It knocks down undead. Knock downs aren't subject to CC immunity so you can permanently CC vamps. If you have a group of 5 people with the morph that effects more people you can run down whole groups of vamps spamming that ability non stop. Add in the templar ability that gives you HP and Stam from dead bodies and you get dead vamps and full stats.

Nysticc

Gaudrath wrote: »

thestonyb16_ESO wrote: »

get a grip, noobs. vampires aren't op, you are just playing bad.

And you have absolutely no idea how PvP works in this game and treat campaigns as your own personal arena. Calling people noobs after spewing nonsense like this. Newsflash, your 3-man group is useless. Can you take a keep? No. Can you defend it? No. Can you take a scroll? No. Can you defend a scroll? No.

So what good are you? I don't care about your 3-man roaming group hunting solo vampires. Big deal. Much skill. Try hunting them in a 50vs50 fight. Vamp Sorcs/DK are OP against large groups... you know... the ones doing the actual work in Alliance vs Alliance war?

I've seen ONE guy solo resources and FOUR guys take a keep, you dont lnow what you're talking about.

LGAllastair

chris.f.price_ESO wrote: »

Have you ever heard of the spell Silver Bolts? It knocks down undead. Knock downs aren't subject to CC immunity so you can permanently CC vamps. If you have a group of 5 people with the morph that effects more people you can run down whole groups of vamps spamming that ability non stop. Add in the templar ability that gives you HP and Stam from dead bodies and you get dead vamps and full stats.

If they block it there is no knock down, you have to be careful with this skill. If you spam it, he charges into you and talons, then you can't roll out because you just burned through your stamina spamming Silver Bolts. In small group fights you can take down a vamp DK easily, or even in organized big groups. When I am running with Vokundein and one charges in our raid we just spread out and explode him with ranged damage in seconds. We call it out on Team Speak and everyone knows what to do. But when you are in an open field and there are a lot of people, you have a stream of clueless people running into him or not moving away and dodge rolling out of talons, standing there and trying to melee them. In that case no amount of silverbolt spam will take him down. All it will do is drain your stamina and when he comes close you will be one of the clueless people trapped in talons unable to move away and feeding him health and ultimate points.