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Add a separate Deathmatch queue for Battlegrounds!

  • DrSlaughtr
    DrSlaughtr
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    Skoomah wrote: »
    Skoomah wrote: »
    Amottica wrote: »
    Skoomah wrote: »
    It’s very simple ZOS. Give us 3 options.

    Solo Random
    Group Random
    Group Deathmatch

    This way, Deathmatch players have a place to go and objective players are completely unaffected. Let the market dictate what does and doesn’t get enough play.

    Perfect with one slight edit:

    Solo Random (daily bonus eligible)
    Group Random
    Group Deathmatch

    Drive casual people just dropping in toward the solo random mode to help populate it, and give them a lower likelihood of getting shredded by dedicated Deathmatch players.

    Unless the DM queue was completely separated from the random queue then the suggestion would skew matches to DM as the other queues would essentially fill the DM matches for when players request it.

    Dude, what is your problem... seriously? Then just remove DM as an option for the first two options then.

    Deathmatch players want nothing to do with Objective players.

    You can't just cater to DM only players by having a super special queue just for them. You have to have a random queue that includes death match because, and this may be shocking, players actually like most of not all the modes.

    I support rolling back pre update 25. If anything you can see from this thread that there's no pleasing everybody.

    Every game I’m in... it’s 10 people trying to DM while 2 people are ignoring fights and doing objectives. So how is this fair? 10 people catering to 2 people.

    And every time we try to put forth a sensible solution, all we get from the vocal minority is a big fat NO.

    No wonder the DM community has built up so much resentment for the OBJ players.

    That's always happened. There's always players that the moment it looks like they're not gonna win they just start DMing.

    The random queue has to have all game modes.

    If you can't make everyone 100% happy, and this is one of those times, everyone has to settle for being 50% happy.
    Edited by DrSlaughtr on 3 August 2021 21:44
    I drink and I stream things.
  • gariondavey
    gariondavey
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    Skoomah speaks the truth.
    PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden
  • Amottica
    Amottica
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    Skoomah wrote: »
    Amottica wrote: »
    Skoomah wrote: »
    It’s very simple ZOS. Give us 3 options.

    Solo Random
    Group Random
    Group Deathmatch

    This way, Deathmatch players have a place to go and objective players are completely unaffected. Let the market dictate what does and doesn’t get enough play.

    Perfect with one slight edit:

    Solo Random (daily bonus eligible)
    Group Random
    Group Deathmatch

    Drive casual people just dropping in toward the solo random mode to help populate it, and give them a lower likelihood of getting shredded by dedicated Deathmatch players.

    Unless the DM queue was completely separated from the random queue then the suggestion would skew matches to DM as the other queues would essentially fill the DM matches for when players request it.

    Dude, what is your problem... seriously? Then just remove DM as an option for the first two options then.

    Deathmatch players want nothing to do with Objective players.

    The Group-Random and Group-DM would still use the same queue per the design of the activity finder unless Zenimax do something with the BG queue they have never done before as there has never been a DM-specific queue. As such DM players have pretty much always played with players that queued for a random. Also, the issue is has nothing to do with casual or serious as there are casual and serious in both camps.
  • Magio_
    Magio_
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    Amottica wrote: »
    The Group-Random and Group-DM would still use the same queue per the design of the activity finder unless Zenimax do something with the BG queue they have never done before as there has never been a DM-specific queue. As such DM players have pretty much always played with players that queued for a random.

    DM was the most popular and no argument you bring up can change that. Speculation? Nope. The Leaderboards count medals earned and DM came head and shoulders above objective modes by any metric. First place vs First place, average, minimum to top 100.

    Now you're coping by arguing that some players in Deathmatch were probably from the random queue like that's some knock on bringing back queue choice. It's just as true, and even more so for objective modes because of the fact that Random Queue had a very high chance of being a DM. That tells us everything we need to know.
    Amottica wrote: »
    Also, the issue is has nothing to do with casual or serious as there are casual and serious in both camps.
    I've yet to come across an Objective Mode BG Guild and/or a community that holds Objective Mode tournaments. Feel free to invite me if you know of one.
  • Sandman929
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    80% of Battlegrounds modes, if you're interested in winning the match it makes more sense to play as a tank than a damage dealer. Or a tank-healer.
    This is PvP for ZOS.
  • Amottica
    Amottica
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    Magio_ wrote: »
    Amottica wrote: »
    The Group-Random and Group-DM would still use the same queue per the design of the activity finder unless Zenimax do something with the BG queue they have never done before as there has never been a DM-specific queue. As such DM players have pretty much always played with players that queued for a random.

    DM was the most popular and no argument you bring up can change that. Speculation?

    It merely took one person to queue specifically for DM for a DM to occur. One person was able to queue for DM and the rest of the spots could be filled by those queueing for a random BG. That is a fact of how the activity finder works.

    As such it is speculation that most players queued for DM unless someone can provide real information on how many specifically selected DM vs how many queued for BGs.
  • Magio_
    Magio_
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    Amottica wrote: »
    As such it is speculation that most players queued for DM unless someone can provide real information on how many specifically selected DM vs how many queued for BGs.
    Could. You keep saying that word. That's all your argument is. Speculation, yet you accuse others of it.

    Doesn't matter how many people it took for the group finder to work. How do YOU know it only takes 1 person for the BG queue to work? Show me proof of your claim [snip]. For all we know it COULD be different for BGs than it is for the Dungeon Finder.

    It's a fact that most of the games ever played, and therefore filled by the Random Queue, were DM according to the Leaderboard scores. Irrefutable, you got nothing as concrete as this. Therefore, more people were specifically queueing for DM than any other mode. You asking for specific numbers we obviously can't provide is just arguing in bad faith.

    We also have to remember how we got to where we are. Nobody EVER asked to remove the choice for queues. It was a decision by ZOS as a compromise to keep the Solo Queue. Which was a mistake, as it funneled players that don't want to play objectives into those games. Evidenced by all the forum threads that have been opened by Deathmatch players complaining about getting a majority of modes they don't want to play, as well as by Objective Mode players that don't want DM players in their matches since we don't play the objective. We are two groups of different players that want different gameplay and we are forced to play together.

    So why do YOU want to keep it the way it is?

    P.S. Please don't forget my invitation to the super Serious Objective Mode BG community you're part of. Think you forgot it last time.

    [edited for baiting]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on 6 August 2021 18:51
  • Amottica
    Amottica
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    Magio_ wrote: »
    Amottica wrote: »
    As such it is speculation that most players queued for DM unless someone can provide real information on how many specifically selected DM vs how many queued for BGs.
    Could. You keep saying that word. That's all your argument is. Speculation, yet you accuse others of it.

    Doesn't matter how many people it took for the group finder to work. How do YOU know it only takes 1 person for the BG queue to work? Show me proof of your claim [snip]. For all we know it COULD be different for BGs than it is for the Dungeon Finder.

    It's a fact that most of the games ever played, and therefore filled by the Random Queue, were DM according to the Leaderboard scores. Irrefutable, you got nothing as concrete as this. Therefore, more people were specifically queueing for DM than any other mode. You asking for specific numbers we obviously can't provide is just arguing in bad faith.

    We also have to remember how we got to where we are. Nobody EVER asked to remove the choice for queues. It was a decision by ZOS as a compromise to keep the Solo Queue. Which was a mistake, as it funneled players that don't want to play objectives into those games. Evidenced by all the forum threads that have been opened by Deathmatch players complaining about getting a majority of modes they don't want to play, as well as by Objective Mode players that don't want DM players in their matches since we don't play the objective. We are two groups of different players that want different gameplay and we are forced to play together.

    So why do YOU want to keep it the way it is?

    P.S. Please don't forget my invitation to the super Serious Objective Mode BG community you're part of. Think you forgot it last time.

    But I am not speculating. I am stating the fact of how the activity finder works, or in this case how it worked when we could select specific BG matches.

    How do I know, because it is how the activity finder works and is most clear when looking at the dungeon finder portion, which is all part of the same activity finder. This is not speculation.

    Also, it does matter how it worked when it is stated that DM was the most popular and that there is no argument on that.

    All I have suggested is that if Zos seems fit to allow players to queue specifically for a DM match that it be it's own queue and not draw from those queueing for a random. I do not understand the argument aginst this since people suggest the DM match is that popular and as players in this thread have indicated DM players want nothing to do with objective players.

    I have made my point very clear without speculation. Heck, even another player in this thread noted how those queueing for randoms fill up groups of those who queued for specific matches. However, in the end, Zenimax is the actual authority and has the data to make clear what is speculation and what is not so I see no reason to keep pushing.

    Good luck and I do hope you get your DM-only queue as long as it is only for those who specifically queue for DM.

    [edited to remove quote]
    Edited by ZOS_Icy on 6 August 2021 18:52
  • Magio_
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    Amottica wrote: »
    But I am not speculating. I am stating the fact of how the activity finder works, or in this case how it worked when we could select specific BG matches.

    How do I know, because it is how the activity finder works and is most clear when looking at the dungeon finder portion, which is all part of the same activity finder. This is not speculation.
    That's speculation in your part, whether you like it or not. I even brought it up in my previous post before you did. You have no idea if the BG Finder works exactly the same as the Dungeon Finder. Show me evidence or accept you're speculating.
    Amottica wrote: »
    Also, it does matter how it worked when it is stated that DM was the most popular and that there is no argument on that.
    It doesn't matter because any argument you can come up with against Deathmatch being the most popular would also apply to Objective Modes, yet Objective Modes still lost in every metric in the Leaderboards.

    You say it only takes 1 person queueing for DM for Random Queue to fill it, even if that were true, the same would apply to any of the other 2 Objective Mode queues, and they were still played less overall. Conclusion, Deathmatch was more popular than Land Grab and Flag Games.
    Amottica wrote: »
    I have made my point very clear without speculation. Heck, even another player in this thread noted how those queueing for randoms fill up groups of those who queued for specific matches.
    I know Random Queues fill any incomplete matches for people queued for specific modes. That's not what you were arguing in the beginning though. You were saying Deathmatch is not really the most popular mode since it only needed one person queued for it and the other 11 might've been Random Queuers. You're just moving the goalposts now. Anyway, again... you actually have no idea if it works exactly the same as the Dungeon Finder. Speculation on your part 100%. Show proof otherwise and I'll happily eat my words.

    I'm looking forward to joining your Objective Mode Guild btw. Plz don't forget my invitation next time you post.
    Amottica wrote: »
    Good luck and I do hope you get your DM-only queue as long as it is only for those who specifically queue for DM.
    Thanks. I wouldn't mind if Random Queue doesn't fill Deathmatch. I'm sure it would be fine without it.

    Pretty sure that's the last person against DM queue in this thread. Radio silence from ZOS though.
    Edited by Magio_ on 4 August 2021 22:36
  • notyuu
    notyuu
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    There is literally not enough BG population to survive being split further via seprate game mode queues

    Prime proof of this, over the past two months the adverage queue time has been 30mins-1 hour with the game usually starting with it eaither being 2v3v4 or 2v4v4 and with the match making/mmr being outta wack to the point where it's a slaughter for one team and the others have to compete for second place (with the second place team on adverage getting less than 200)

    it's to the point where I there have been literally zero enjoyable matches these past two months..what we need is more people in BGs to resolve this problem THEN you can see about makign DM queues and the like
  • DrSlaughtr
    DrSlaughtr
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    Magio_ wrote: »
    Amottica wrote: »
    But I am not speculating. I am stating the fact of how the activity finder works, or in this case how it worked when we could select specific BG matches.

    How do I know, because it is how the activity finder works and is most clear when looking at the dungeon finder portion, which is all part of the same activity finder. This is not speculation.
    That's speculation in your part, whether you like it or not. I even brought it up in my previous post before you did. You have no idea if the BG Finder works exactly the same as the Dungeon Finder. Show me evidence or accept you're speculating.
    Amottica wrote: »
    Also, it does matter how it worked when it is stated that DM was the most popular and that there is no argument on that.
    It doesn't matter because any argument you can come up with against Deathmatch being the most popular would also apply to Objective Modes, yet Objective Modes still lost in every metric in the Leaderboards.

    You say it only takes 1 person queueing for DM for Random Queue to fill it, even if that were true, the same would apply to any of the other 2 Objective Mode queues, and they were still played less overall. Conclusion, Deathmatch was more popular than Land Grab and Flag Games.
    Amottica wrote: »
    I have made my point very clear without speculation. Heck, even another player in this thread noted how those queueing for randoms fill up groups of those who queued for specific matches.
    I know Random Queues fill any incomplete matches for people queued for specific modes. That's not what you were arguing in the beginning though. You were saying Deathmatch is not really the most popular mode since it only needed one person queued for it and the other 11 might've been Random Queuers. You're just moving the goalposts now. Anyway, again... you actually have no idea if it works exactly the same as the Dungeon Finder. Speculation on your part 100%. Show proof otherwise and I'll happily eat my words.

    I'm looking forward to joining your Objective Mode Guild btw. Plz don't forget my invitation next time you post.
    Amottica wrote: »
    Good luck and I do hope you get your DM-only queue as long as it is only for those who specifically queue for DM.
    Thanks. I wouldn't mind if Random Queue doesn't fill Deathmatch. I'm sure it would be fine without it.

    Pretty sure that's the last person against DM queue in this thread. Radio silence from ZOS though.

    If you're going by leaderboards, on XB right now it's flag games with 78134, land grab with 66650, and in the rear DM with 66498.

    It isn't a good metric for popularity. Drastically different scoring systems.

    As for the activity finder I'm not sure what the argument is here. A team can easily be 3 random queuers and one person who chose DM. It can also be 3 people who chose DM and the queue filled the fourth with a rando. Or it could be a mix. Or everyone random queued.

    There's no reason to think it doesn't work like dungeon finder because that behaves the same way.
    I drink and I stream things.
  • Magio_
    Magio_
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    If you're going by leaderboards, on XB right now it's flag games with 78134, land grab with 66650, and in the rear DM with 66498.

    It isn't a good metric for popularity. Drastically different scoring systems.

    As for the activity finder I'm not sure what the argument is here. A team can easily be 3 random queuers and one person who chose DM. It can also be 3 people who chose DM and the queue filled the fourth with a rando. Or it could be a mix. Or everyone random queued.
    We're talking about Leaderboards when you could pick specific modes. Keep up buddy. Leaderboards now mean nothing because it's all random, so I have no clue why you even bring them up lol.

    As about the random queue, that was a bad faith argument against DM Leaderboards being head and shoulders above Objective mode Leaderboards. Everything you said about specific queuers and random queuers is true, but it's also true for Land Grab and Flag Games. So it doesn't really matter, because you can't use it as an argument against DM Leaderboards showing it's more popular, because that argument would also apply to Land Grab and Flag Games, and they were still far behind.

    It's not the best, but those Leaderboards FROM WHEN WE COULD QUEUE FOR SPECIFIC MODES is the best we players have to go by. It is a fact DM was ahead in every metric as stated before. Medals earned by #1. Medals needed to show up (last place). Average medals from #1 to last place. Median score. DM Leaderboard beat the other modes. Even the fact that the chance that a Random Queue match would be a Deathmatch was very high.

    So please stop trying to say DM was not the most popular mode against all evidence we have available, or ask for evidence we as players can't provide.
    .There's no reason to think it doesn't work like dungeon finder because that behaves the same way.

    That is still an assumption, which could be called speculation. You're most likely correct. I am not saying otherwise. The problem is, the person I was arguing with was trying to use that as an argument against people saying DM was the most popular game mode back when we had choice. The thing is, any argument here also applies to the Land Grab and Flag Game modes and those modes lost. I am repeating myself because I feel I have to. People seem to skip parts of posts, so hopefully at least one instance is read.
    Edited by Magio_ on 5 August 2021 19:21
  • gariondavey
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    notyuu wrote: »
    There is literally not enough BG population to survive being split further via seprate game mode queues

    Prime proof of this, over the past two months the adverage queue time has been 30mins-1 hour with the game usually starting with it eaither being 2v3v4 or 2v4v4 and with the match making/mmr being outta wack to the point where it's a slaughter for one team and the others have to compete for second place (with the second place team on adverage getting less than 200)

    it's to the point where I there have been literally zero enjoyable matches these past two months..what we need is more people in BGs to resolve this problem THEN you can see about makign DM queues and the like

    Sorry but this is just wrong. If your queue is longer than 7 min, drop and re-queue. It will pop in the next 3 min.
    Source: I play high mmr bgs on pc na during primetime, on 6 different characters.
    PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden
  • Magio_
    Magio_
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    notyuu wrote: »
    There is literally not enough BG population to survive being split further via seprate game mode queues

    Prime proof of this, over the past two months the adverage queue time has been 30mins-1 hour with the game usually starting with it eaither being 2v3v4 or 2v4v4 and with the match making/mmr being outta wack

    What platform and region are you on? If yo say PC NA you're lying or you play at really off hours. PC NA the only way you get 15min + queues is if you're in a trio or squad and there's no other trio or squads queueing. Which makes sense, the system is protecting duos, solos from having to deal with your squad constantly. Just last night we had some instant queues as full 4 mans.

    If you say any other platform or region, yikes. I don't know why you think other platforms/regions should suffer for the sake of your platform/region.

    If you say solo queue, even more reason to get rid of that dead garbage and revert back to the old system where we had choice.
    Edited by Magio_ on 5 August 2021 19:21
  • Merforum
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    Magio_ wrote: »
    If you're going by leaderboards, on XB right now it's flag games with 78134, land grab with 66650, and in the rear DM with 66498.

    It isn't a good metric for popularity. Drastically different scoring systems.

    As for the activity finder I'm not sure what the argument is here. A team can easily be 3 random queuers and one person who chose DM. It can also be 3 people who chose DM and the queue filled the fourth with a rando. Or it could be a mix. Or everyone random queued.
    We're talking about Leaderboards when you could pick specific modes. Keep up buddy. Leaderboards now mean nothing because it's all random, so I have no clue why you even bring them up lol.

    As about the random queue, that was a bad faith argument against DM Leaderboards being head and shoulders above Objective mode Leaderboards. Everything you said about specific queuers and random queuers is true, but it's also true for Land Grab and Flag Games. So it doesn't really matter, because you can't use it as an argument against DM Leaderboards showing it's more popular, because that argument would also apply to Land Grab and Flag Games, and they were still far behind.

    It's not the best, but those Leaderboards FROM WHEN WE COULD QUEUE FOR SPECIFIC MODES is the best we players have to go by. It is a fact DM was ahead in every metric as stated before. Medals earned by #1. Medals needed to show up (last place). Average medals from #1 to last place. Median score. DM Leaderboard beat the other modes. Even the fact that the chance that a Random Queue match would be a Deathmatch was very high.

    So please stop trying to say DM was not the most popular mode against all evidence we have available, or ask for evidence we as players can't provide.
    .There's no reason to think it doesn't work like dungeon finder because that behaves the same way.

    That is still an assumption, which could be called speculation. You're most likely correct. I am not saying otherwise. The problem is, the person I was arguing with was trying to use that as an argument against people saying DM was the most popular game mode back when we had choice. The thing is, any argument here also applies to the Land Grab and Flag Game modes and those modes lost. I am repeating myself because I feel I have to. People seem to skip parts of posts, so hopefully at least one instance is read.

    Actually everyone is speculating. But I have to disagree with your argument that "Everything you said about specific queuers and random queuers is true, but it's also true for Land Grab and Flag Games. So it doesn't really matter,"

    Actually this is only valid if you can prove that there were an equal amount of people using specific queue for 'land grab, flag' as they were for 'DM', which is not feasible. I don't see hundreds of threads asking for specific 'land grab, flag' only queue so it is safe to assume the vast majority of people who used 'specific' queue were DMers. So consequently the randoms would have had to be added to those, which would in turn beef up the overall numbers. So it's mere speculation on all parts to say whether most players are DMers or just the insanely vocal minority.

    But this whole point is moot because BGs has such a low population (even in prime time it's the same ~50 people playing over and over, BORING since they half of the treat everything as DM) that they can't afford to split the queues any more. If I am not mistaken they did try 'solo choice', 'solo rando' and people were complaining they couldn't play with their friends. Maybe they could go back to that which would be fine with me.
  • Skoomah
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    Why is it so difficult to just let people play how they want and let people select the game mode they want?

    I am calling people out as I see it and the people forcing people to queue into modes they don’t want are SELFISH.
  • Raeyleigh
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    I know that some people really like their objective modes and really try to conjure up anything to make an argument. But those are a very small but vocal minority.

    You do realize that if the queue works like that, it would mean that even less people queued for objectives.

    DM leaderboards were far above and beyond objective modes, that is hard proof that far more people who activly queue for more than the daily prefered DM.
    If there are, say, 5 people queueing for DM, 2 for landgrab and 1 for capture the flag, then far more people who queued for random will get filled into objective modes.
    And in my anecdotal memory the chance to get a DM while queueing random was still easily around 75%.
    Or in short the old system funneled far more players into objective modes than DM.

    No offense, but the reason why objectives are so hated is because they are designed as anti pvp modes. If you want to win landgrab or capture the relic, it is best to avoid fighting at all costs. Chaosball is better, but in there either running or bunkering are also superior strategems to actually fighting.
    And the worst part about them is the fact that otherwise useless tanks sit on flags and relics, but you cannot ignore them.
    Again no offense, but in my experience the people who actually like objectives more are almost all particularly bad at pvp and have little to contribute to actual fights.

    The best solution for everyone is to have the queues split into random, solo random, objective and DM.
    That way everyone can play what they like, and games filled up before when we had 4 queues too, so games should fill up just fine.

    The reason why BG population is down are these godforsaken random only queues in the first place. Among everyone i ask why they play less bg the answer is usually because of random modes. Hell, i myself play less because of that.
  • Skoomah
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    Are you listening ZOS?! Or will you continue to ignore us!
  • DrSlaughtr
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    Magio_ wrote: »
    If you're going by leaderboards, on XB right now it's flag games with 78134, land grab with 66650, and in the rear DM with 66498.

    It isn't a good metric for popularity. Drastically different scoring systems.

    As for the activity finder I'm not sure what the argument is here. A team can easily be 3 random queuers and one person who chose DM. It can also be 3 people who chose DM and the queue filled the fourth with a rando. Or it could be a mix. Or everyone random queued.
    We're talking about Leaderboards when you could pick specific modes. Keep up buddy. Leaderboards now mean nothing because it's all random, so I have no clue why you even bring them up lol.

    As about the random queue, that was a bad faith argument against DM Leaderboards being head and shoulders above Objective mode Leaderboards. Everything you said about specific queuers and random queuers is true, but it's also true for Land Grab and Flag Games. So it doesn't really matter, because you can't use it as an argument against DM Leaderboards showing it's more popular, because that argument would also apply to Land Grab and Flag Games, and they were still far behind.

    It's not the best, but those Leaderboards FROM WHEN WE COULD QUEUE FOR SPECIFIC MODES is the best we players have to go by. It is a fact DM was ahead in every metric as stated before. Medals earned by #1. Medals needed to show up (last place). Average medals from #1 to last place. Median score. DM Leaderboard beat the other modes. Even the fact that the chance that a Random Queue match would be a Deathmatch was very high.

    So please stop trying to say DM was not the most popular mode against all evidence we have available, or ask for evidence we as players can't provide.
    .There's no reason to think it doesn't work like dungeon finder because that behaves the same way.

    That is still an assumption, which could be called speculation. You're most likely correct. I am not saying otherwise. The problem is, the person I was arguing with was trying to use that as an argument against people saying DM was the most popular game mode back when we had choice. The thing is, any argument here also applies to the Land Grab and Flag Game modes and those modes lost. I am repeating myself because I feel I have to. People seem to skip parts of posts, so hopefully at least one instance is read.

    You're right. No more assumptions.

    I'm sure you have historical data on leaderboards that you claim prove your claims. 🤔
    I drink and I stream things.
  • Magio_
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    You're right. No more assumptions.

    I'm sure you have historical data on leaderboards that you claim prove your claims. 🤔
    You are correct @TheEndBringer, here you go buddy:

    DM:
    aad02dd8d27665f0d7744a78d782a109.png

    Land Grab:
    429dd6d8afe28d5a5f0766ffecf5d7a7.png

    Flag Games:
    4ebc680a7ac786f08c6f821b173d6aa7.png

    GG
    Edited by Magio_ on 6 August 2021 00:26
  • Arcanasx
    Arcanasx
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    Magio_ wrote: »
    You're right. No more assumptions.

    I'm sure you have historical data on leaderboards that you claim prove your claims. 🤔
    You are correct @TheEndBringer, here you go buddy:

    DM:
    aad02dd8d27665f0d7744a78d782a109.png

    Land Grab:
    429dd6d8afe28d5a5f0766ffecf5d7a7.png

    Flag Games:
    4ebc680a7ac786f08c6f821b173d6aa7.png

    GG

    Looks like you may have brought an end to some of the claims being made here.
  • Viewsfrom6ix
    Viewsfrom6ix
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    Magio_ wrote: »
    You're right. No more assumptions.

    I'm sure you have historical data on leaderboards that you claim prove your claims. 🤔
    You are correct @TheEndBringer, here you go buddy:

    DM:
    aad02dd8d27665f0d7744a78d782a109.png

    Land Grab:
    429dd6d8afe28d5a5f0766ffecf5d7a7.png

    Flag Games:
    4ebc680a7ac786f08c6f821b173d6aa7.png

    GG

    I want a DM queue as much as everyone here. But those screenshots are not meaningful stats to explain DM is more popular.


    1. It is much easier to rack up medal scores in DM. You get an insane amount of points for healing and getting assists. You can get 4k+ easily and still lose.
    2. DM matches are often drawn out to the full 15mins and thus longer time to gain points.
    3. Objective modes scoring system is completely different to DM. This leads to lower medal scores. Top objectivers only get like 2k in flag games.
    4. Screenshot is taken at the start of the leaderboard week which means a small sample size. Not enough data to accurately support the claim.
  • Amottica
    Amottica
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    Magio_ wrote: »
    .There's no reason to think it doesn't work like dungeon finder because that behaves the same way.

    That is still an assumption, which could be called speculation. You're most likely correct. I am not saying otherwise. The problem is, the person I was arguing with was trying to use that as an argument against people saying DM was the most popular game mode back when we had choice. The thing is, any argument here also applies to the Land Grab and Flag Game modes and those modes lost. I am repeating myself because I feel I have to. People seem to skip parts of posts, so hopefully at least one instance is read.

    Actually, one would have to separate out the players that specifically queued for other matches and those that queued for random matches to find out how many players queued specifically for the DM matches. That is the only way one could tell if a majority of players had truly queued for DM.

    We are reading a lot into the picture painted back when we could select specific matches yet there is not enough information available to us to see what percentage of players actually queued for DMs. Heck, even if we look at the total volume of people who have expressed any opinion in this thread it is not enough to suggest anything other than a small group of players have expressed an opinion.
    Edited by Amottica on 6 August 2021 04:21
  • Magio_
    Magio_
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    3. Objective modes scoring system is completely different to DM. This leads to lower medal scores. Top objectivers only get like 2k in flag games.
    It's not just about comparing Rank 1-10 total Medals dude. If you see, 2600 Medals in Flag Games puts you at rank 39. That's top 40, for the medals you can get in a single match.

    Anyone that remembers Leaderboards from back then knows it was the same ratio when they closed. Everyone who played back then remembers queueing for your Random Daily BG had a high chance of being DM, even some of the Obj Gamers in this very thread have admitted as much.

    Amottica wrote: »
    Actually, one would have to separate out the players that specifically queued for other matches and those that queued for random matches to find out how many players queued specifically for the DM matches. That is the only way one could tell if a majority of players had truly queued for DM.
    DM was more popular, that's the claim. Now you're arguing semantics... and asking for evidence we can't provide while trying to ignore the one we can and have. I have yet to see you provide anything close to what I have, just pure speculation and nitpicking.

    Now you have to look at all the evidence together and stop nitpicking at each individually. Most matches played per player in the top 13, even accounting for different medal scoring per game mode. 2500 medals doesn't get you ranked in the Deathmatch but 2600 gets you rank 39 on Flag games. That's one match for top 40 in an objective leaderboard. Top 3 for that same leaderboard is 3 matches...

    Add the fact that anyone who played back then remembers that queueing Random Queue had a high chance of being Deathmatch. You try claiming that it only took 1 person for that, speculation by the way, but then the same would be true for Land Grab and Flag Games, yet they didn't fill from the Random Queue as often? Why is that? It only takes 1 person, right? I'd say there wasn't that 1 person queueing for these modes that often since 3 games worth of medals puts you at top 3 after a day of BGs leaderboards being open.

    I'm still waiting for my invite to your Objective Mode Battleground Guild btw.
    Edited by Magio_ on 6 August 2021 15:31
  • Amottica
    Amottica
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    Magio_ wrote: »
    3. Objective modes scoring system is completely different to DM. This leads to lower medal scores. Top objectivers only get like 2k in flag games.
    It's not just about comparing Rank 1-10 total Medals dude. If you see, 2600 Medals in Flag Games puts you at rank 39. That's top 40, for the medals you can get in a single match.

    Anyone that remembers Leaderboards from back then knows it was the same ratio when they closed. Everyone who played back then remembers queueing for your Random Daily BG had a high chance of being DM, even some of the Obj Gamers in this very thread have admitted as much.

    Amottica wrote: »
    Actually, one would have to separate out the players that specifically queued for other matches and those that queued for random matches to find out how many players queued specifically for the DM matches. That is the only way one could tell if a majority of players had truly queued for DM.
    DM was more popular, that's the claim. Now you're arguing semantics....

    I was commenting on the specifics.
  • Magio_
    Magio_
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    Amottica wrote: »
    I was commenting on the specifics.
    More nitpicking, literally since you forgot to comment on the other 2 paragraphs of my previous post.

    You also keep forgetting my invitation to the serious Objective Mode BG Community you know about.
  • gariondavey
    gariondavey
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    Kind of funny that despite this evidence people continue to oppose dm only queues that would only improve everyone's bg experience.

    @ZOS_Kevin please read this thread. The bg community needs some love. Thank you!
    PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden
  • DrSlaughtr
    DrSlaughtr
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    I said historical data, not three screenshots. That would be a spreadsheet with months of user data that we don't have access to. Any claims to popularity of the various modes are guesses.

    I would put money that DM is more popular but that's me taking a shot in the dark. A lot of that could also be because the other game modes are dominated by whichever team has the best tank and/or healer.
    I drink and I stream things.
  • Magio_
    Magio_
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    a spreadsheet with months of user data that we don't have access to
    Then why you ask for it? Bad faith argument. I am sure every leaderboard from when queueing for specific modes was possible will look the same. Did you play back then? Because you are also ignoring all the people that have posted that have similar memories. DM Leaderboards winning by every metric and Random Queue having a very high chance of being Deathmatch are things you can't deny.
    Any claims to popularity of the various modes are guesses.

    I would put money that DM is more popular but that's me taking a shot in the dark.
    A claim being a guess is not automatically a bad claim. Educated guesses are a thing, and everyone here trying to dismiss the claim while asking for data we can't provide is arguing in bad faith.

    It's not really a shot in the dark though, since every small piece of evidence we as players have available points towards DM being the most popular game mode by a large margin. Anecdotal evidence from several forum posters claiming Random Queue had a high chance of being DM (DMers and Obj gamers alike), screenshots of Leaderboards that have DM winning by every metric and show you only need 2 good games to be top 3 in Objective modes and 1 good game to be top 40 after a day of it being open.

    Let's play a game. I'll go out and find more contemporaneous evidence of DM having better Leaderboards and you do the same for Obj modes.

    [Edit to remove bait]
    Edited by [Deleted User] on 6 August 2021 21:54
  • gariondavey
    gariondavey
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    I remember looking through leaderboards many times and noticing much higher scores for deathmatch than flag games or ball games. This was larger by at least 2-3 times, if not more, every time I checked.
    PC NA @gariondavey, BG, IC & Cyrodiil Focused Since October 2017 Stamplar (main), Magplar, Magsorc, Stamsorc, StamDK, MagDK, Stamblade, Magblade, Magden, Stamden
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