Question about Cyrodiil ethics

Sandman929 · March 2021

Leslik wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Though I agree with this partially, humans tend to emulate their environment especially if there's nothing in place to correct inappropriate behaviors. Like I've said I've played since launch and I've never seen a gm in game. Maybe if zos had the forum moderators police the game instead of the forums, a lot of the toxic behaviors would die down.

Yeah. That little loadscreen banner about real Zos gamesmasters have a Z next to their name is a fairy tale

But seriously I agree with your point. Real in-game moderation rather than forum police it's what's needed.

Honestly I don't know how they resist the urge to, just occasionally, show up as daedric princes. Missed opportunity...I'd be all over that.

Dojohoda · March 2021

What we have in your video are players that want to play. If Cyrodiil functioned correctly there would be (a lot) more people playing in Cyrodiil. The population is not high enough to support spreading out and, in the case of this video, leaving base.

Lord_Bashu · March 2021

@ZOS_ConnorG

So why can't you answer this fellows question? I see other answers from Zos.

The simple answer to your question is gating is legal, period end of story.

Would it not be that simple to answer this person question? So many valid questions go unanswered.

According to the Poll I did on the subject of Gate Camping. (see below)

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/528460/gate-camping-lets-define-it#latest

Its about 50 50 on opinion if this is good or bad.

To solve this issue for your faction, you have to do what they do, which is recruit and train folks. Cyro is not meant to be fair.

Stop thinking that it should be or asking for it to be that way. (ball groups as an example)

If you want fair, then do G v G or BG's.

It is considered bad sports by many, to do it... for no valid reason and the killing of pvp for that faction, but life is not fair.. just consider this a good lesson on life.

You must have a good frame of mind for Cyro!! Otherwise it can eat you up.

Last of all, don't look for logic in Cyro!!!

VaranisArano · March 2021

Lord_Bashu wrote: »

ZOS_ConnorG

So why can't you answer this fellows question? I see other answers from Zos.

The simple answer to your question is gating is legal, period end of story.

Would it not be that simple to answer this person question? So many valid questions go unanswered.

According to the Poll I did on the subject of Gate Camping. (see below)

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/528460/gate-camping-lets-define-it#latest

Its about 50 50 on opinion if this is good or bad.

To solve this issue for your faction, you have to do what they do, which is recruit and train folks. Cyro is not meant to be fair.

Stop thinking that it should be or asking for it to be that way. (ball groups as an example)

If you want fair, then do G v G or BG's.

It is considered bad sports by many, to do it... for no valid reason and the killing of pvp for that faction, but life is not fair.. just consider this a good lesson on life.

You must have a good frame of mind for Cyro!! Otherwise it can eat you up.

Last of all, don't look for logic in Cyro!!!

I remember that poll and the resulting discussion, so I reviewed your link. It's a poll of 52 people on the definition of gate-camping, not over whether it was bad or good, and many of us couldn't even agree that your poll options accurately described "gate-camping" in the first place.

The OP's video shows actual gate-camping: players fighting at and behind a faction's gates to preventing those players from leaving to play in Cyrodiil, even though the camped faction has nothing.

So, ah, while you've got a few good points here, I'm not sure that poll says what you say it says. If you want a better view of the forum community's view on "Is gate-camping good/bad/neutral/illegal?", you'll need a different poll that actually asks that. I'd be interested to see the results!

Ackwalan · March 2021

Lord_Bashu wrote: »

@ZOS_C

So why can't you answer this fellows question? I see other answers from Zos.

The simple answer to your question is gating is legal, period end of story.

Would it not be that simple to answer this person question? So many valid questions go unanswered.

According to the Poll I did on the subject of Gate Camping. (see below)

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/528460/gate-camping-lets-define-it#latest

Its about 50 50 on opinion if this is good or bad.

To solve this issue for your faction, you have to do what they do, which is recruit and train folks. Cyro is not meant to be fair.

Stop thinking that it should be or asking for it to be that way. (ball groups as an example)

If you want fair, then do G v G or BG's.

It is considered bad sports by many, to do it... for no valid reason and the killing of pvp for that faction, but life is not fair.. just consider this a good lesson on life.

You must have a good frame of mind for Cyro!! Otherwise it can eat you up.

Last of all, don't look for logic in Cyro!!!

Forum moderators have absolutely nothing to do with the game. He can't give you an answer.

Jaraal · March 2021

Any links to the video? Original post makes zero sense without any context.

What are we even talking about?

VaranisArano · March 2021

Jaraal wrote: »

Any links to the video? Original post makes zero sense without any context.

What are we even talking about?

IIRC, on PC/EU, EP players were fighting DC players right outside the DC home base, preventing them from leaving their base and going to fight anywhere else in Cyrodiil. At least twice, an EP player ends up on the ledge of the base (I don't recall if they chain up there or got pulled by the Warden teleport) and fights there for a bit before they get killed. The OP died twice, I think?

So basically, the discussion has focused around gatecamping, with a side note of "are enemy players supposed to be able to get up there?"

ealdwin · March 2021

VaranisArano wrote: »

Jaraal wrote: »

Any links to the video? Original post makes zero sense without any context.

What are we even talking about?

IIRC, on PC/EU, EP players were fighting DC players right outside the DC home base, preventing them from leaving their base and going to fight anywhere else in Cyrodiil. At least twice, an EP player ends up on the ledge of the base (I don't recall if they chain up there or got pulled by the Warden teleport) and fights there for a bit before they get killed. The OP died twice, I think?

So basically, the discussion has focused around gatecamping, with a side note of "are enemy players supposed to be able to get up there?"

I believe you are correct in your recollection. There was also a chain pull of a DC player down from the ledge of the base: another question of whether that should happen.

Is a shame the video was removed, as without it, the discussion doesn't have the context it provides.

Jaraal · March 2021

Ok, so I saw the video (thank you), and here's my take on it.

OP got close to the edge and got Shield Charged. That brought the enemy player up onto the ledge (not a wall). And then the OP got too close to the edge and got Chained.

What the real problem is is that the OP kept voluntarily respawning at the Southern Gate, rather than respawning at the Northern Gate, dropping down, and going about his business. Now imagine what would happen if ALL the DC players went to the Northern Gate and took the undefended keeps while the EP players were standing around the Southern Gate waiting for players who weren't there.

nukk3r · March 2021

Jaraal wrote: »

Ok, so I saw the video (thank you), and here's my take on it.

OP got close to the edge and got Shield Charged. That brought the enemy player up onto the ledge (not a wall). And then the OP got too close to the edge and got Chained.

What the real problem is is that the OP kept voluntarily respawning at the Southern Gate, rather than respawning at the Northern Gate, dropping down, and going about his business. Now imagine what would happen if ALL the DC players went to the Northern Gate and took the undefended keeps while the EP players were standing around the Southern Gate waiting for players who weren't there.

The problem is that they camped at both gates and pretty much every DC player available was on screen. We tried recapturing the keeps but the whole zerg showed up. So we were basically forced to either chill at base or log off. EP does that every night and keeps doing this for at least an hour. And it doesn't matter what you do, like you go to cap a resource, 20 people will show up just to kill whoever is doing that. We simply decided to not provide them with any entertainment.

They did the same thing with scroll taunting two days ago but there were just four reds (same people) we killed them, took our scroll back and were zerged down almost immediately. These same players would gank you 6v1 in the open field and the whisper you that you got "smallscaled".

Gating is only the half of the problem (if any really), my issue is with the smug attitude and obvious in-your-face behavior. Like you already got emp, six scrolls, and the hammer with 3 bars vs 1 bar. No need to rub it in.

Jaraal · March 2021

Ok, if they are actually camping both gates, here's some tips.

First priority is to locate and destroy the forward camps. They'll get tired of having to ride all the way back from Warden and Rayles when they die. And tired of having to put up new camps all the time.

I noticed there were no meatbags being used. Meatbags are your friends. They do the most damage (outside of coldfire ballistas, which are hard to target mobile players with) to players, in a wider AOE circle, and will make them think twice about coming close. Makes it harder to rez on the spot, too, as the rezzed will die immediately in the DOT and the rezzers will run from it.

You have the siege advantage with the higher position, but your people are putting them on the edge where they can take damage. Back up to where the enemy can't see you, and set your siege camera view to "constrained", which will give you an overhead perspective. You will be able to see and target them, but they won't be able to see you. Bombard them with meatbags, stay out of sight...... they will soon pack up and leave.

Lord_Bashu · March 2021

OP
The below msg is only for DC, not for EP or AD scum.

I can't help with your other "issue" i.e the smug attitude and obvious in-your-face behavior."

But I can tell you what I did on the first issue.

As a fellow DC who has been in your situation and succeed in overcoming this issue and who literary destroyed the ep on my server, you have two basic choice's, leave, or recruit and build. I did the latter last year, I spent several months recruiting, training and gearing. When I was done with EP, guilds had broken up, and the EP faction got to the point where “we” had to stop playing so they could recover, because we didn't want to kill PvP.

We tried to take the high road, by not doing a lot of gating, (a little (a few hours) to show them what it was like).
It was a lot of work, but I can tell you it’s very satisfying.

As to the comment about my poll, my point was that there is no consensus, the poll shows that. 2nd the video shows 40 plus EP who think its ethical.

nukk3r · March 2021

Jaraal wrote: »

Ok, if they are actually camping both gates, here's some tips.

First priority is to locate and destroy the forward camps. They'll get tired of having to ride all the way back from Warden and Rayles when they die. And tired of having to put up new camps all the time.

I noticed there were no meatbags being used. Meatbags are your friends. They do the most damage (outside of coldfire ballistas, which are hard to target mobile players with) to players, in a wider AOE circle, and will make them think twice about coming close. Makes it harder to rez on the spot, too, as the rezzed will die immediately in the DOT and the rezzers will run from it.

You have the siege advantage with the higher position, but your people are putting them on the edge where they can take damage. Back up to where the enemy can't see you, and set your siege camera view to "constrained", which will give you an overhead perspective. You will be able to see and target them, but they won't be able to see you. Bombard them with meatbags, stay out of sight...... they will soon pack up and leave.

I know how to fight, I'm at the point where I don't care to anymore. I simply won't provide any PvP action for the reds at that time of day. And it's a shared sentiment of our "night shift".

Araneae6537 · March 2021

It is not a faction issue. There are people in every faction who are trolls. The best thing to do is ignore them but it sucks that there are people repeatedly doing this so that you have to change where or when you play.

It is a shame that more people don’t have a concept of sportsmanship.

Athan1 · March 2021

Um, if the core question of the thread is snipped, you might as well lock it. The OP becomes unclear/unreadable after the snip. You could have at least paraphrased or given a summary.

NoSoup · March 2021

Athan1 wrote: »

Um, if the core question of the thread is snipped, you might as well lock it. The OP becomes unclear/unreadable after the snip. You could have at least paraphrased or given a summary.

OP posted a video of being gated, they had no keeps and a ball group was camping their alliance spawn DESTROYING them as they tried to fight back.