Gate Camping (lets define it)

Lord_Bashu

Gate Camping, what is it? Does everyone know what that means? Is there a common understand of what is gate camping and what is not gate camping?

Let’s have a bit of fun and try to make a good definition of what Gate Camping is and is not!!!

We won’t cover taking rss at Gate Keep except in discussion.

The poll below assumes that scrolls have been captured and are not at the temples.

TBois

Gate camping is taking the tri keeps and staying at the open gate that has no scroll to fight the people coming out of the gate. None of these options describe gate camping, and gate camping rarely happens these days.

Lord_Bashu

That would be 6, Gate Camping is taking any of the Tri Keeps, including Arrius. Regardless of points.

The "poll below assumes that scrolls have been captured and are not at the temples."

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Gate camping isn't the act of taking the keeps - its the act of fighting the faction at their gates / home base and not letting them leave to siege anything back.

Karm1cOne

I haven't seen true gate camping in a long while. I can remember having other factions put up siege at our home base to kill people spawning in.

Lord_Bashu

I am trying to create a common definition of gate camping.

Some people seem to think taking back/gate keeps is gate camping.

Some people seem to think taking a keep like Arrius is gate camping.

Some people think it matters what the score is, to determine if its gate camping.

The few that have responded here so far, are using the literal definition of actually being at the gate or the enemy base.
So already there is proof that there is no common definition.

How do others define it?

It happens in many camps, but less so in the populated camps which is true for example currently in Gray Host. But my goal is to create a common definition of what it is. There is a common thought that “gate camping” is bad. And if its bad, then it needs to have a clear definition.

So what do you think?

Thanks to everyone who is contributing it is appreciated.

idk

Back in the day this game had a much larger PvP base we did not gate camp. If we owned the keeps that opened the gates we camped the bases. We were serious and took the fight to them. LOL.

VaranisArano

Huh, apparently my working definition was more restrictive than any of your options. I agree with the posters saying Gate camping is taking everything an alliance owns and then camping out at the gate to kill whoever tries to come out to fight.

gameswithaspoon

Gate Camping is taking any of the Tri Keeps, including Arrius. Regardless of points.

Taking and/or defending your capture of an enemy faction’s trikeeps when that faction does not hold their Scrolls.

The word “regardless” seems ineffective as it functions to keep a Faction dominant on the map, most often when they hold Emperor before the start of prime time and it serves the purpose of trying to hold that objective for as long as possible, and as a means to ensure there is no possible competitive interest in the campaign.

As a specific example, DC’s behavior for the last campaign, and to be fair, EP for 10 of 12 campaigns in 2019, in nonCP. Not only does it lower the interest of guilds who might consider moving into an underpopulated map of Cyrodiil, people get bored of pushing out to dethrone the same Tryhard at the same Keep for 4 weeks. And thus we say, gate camping kills campaigns.

Gatecamps are bad for business.

Vietfox

Gate Camping is taking the gate keeps themselves, Example, Kings and Farr, and/or fighting at the gate, “regardless” of points.

Plus it is legal.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

Honestly the issue these days isn't even gate camping. It is a problem of proportional force and giving enemies something to fight for.

Lets take the scenario which occurs quite often.

3 bar pop vs 1 bar, 1 bar.

If this 3 bar pop was purely uncoordinated pugs there would still likely be some level of stalemating at certain points due to siege, being pushed from either side etc.

The issue comes when this 2 or 3 bar pop is also made up of a coordinated group who is pushing the front lines with their faction. It is always going to imbalance the map.
Especially when that group goes on to defend every attack enemies make en mass.

Where there is no chance for the low pop factions to take anything or make any progress the campaign empties further. This is the equivalent to gate camping.

There should always be a corridor for low pop factions to fight and always be some objectives to defend and attack without getting pushed by everyone from the higher pop faction including an organised group if you want to keep a campaign healthy.

Enkil

Gate camping is taking DEFENDING the two closest scroll/tri-keeps (Farra/Kings), (BM/BB), (Warden/Rayles) AFTER you (or some others) have ALREADY TAKEN THE SCROLL(S) from the corresponding scroll temples.

If keep is protecting gate to a scroll-containing temple, it is certainly fair game!!

GATE CAMPING is a VERY WEAK form of gameplay that discourages and stifles competition, and when pop is low, can and usually does cause some of those defenders u would want to PvP, to log off, exacerbating population imbalances. Score is totally irrelevant as what matters is the player-base that is on (that you are gate camping?). Hit L and u can see it anytime.

How is this basic thing unclear 6 years after launch???

NO POLL IS NEEDED.

Alienoutlaw

There is no such thing as gate camping, its all legal.

if i can restrict your factions movement then i'm going to do it, no such thing as "camping" its simply controlling the movement of enemy troops. its called an Alliance WAR not Alliance here you go 1st

biminirwb17_ESO

I remember the good ol days when people used to siege the home bases none of this letting people get into the temple zone.

Lord_Bashu

Yes, I can see how Defending, vs just taking might have been better wording.

Greasytengu

I would say that gate camping is better defined as taking and holding the tri keeps while having an unfair population advantage, regardless of the points.


If a faction is able to 'gate' another while the odds are basically equal (like both factions are poplocked during primetime), then its fair play. They technically have the numbers to break out, but for some reason are just not able to, but the ability is there.


If a faction gates another while there is a major population discrepancy (3 bars vs 1) then its kinda a s'wit move. A gated faction in this scenario has little to no ability to escape and the state of the map will likely encourage more casual players to just log out, further widening the population gap.

Coggo

There is no such thing as gate camping, its all legal.

No cp EP have an embarassing dominance in Ravenwatch at the moment, but with the maxim "Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster" in mind our multi-guild alliance and the new Emp are not taking yellow and blues tri keeps. That said, pugs and forces upon whom we have no influence have not set such constraints upon themselves and ZOS ain't striking them down ... hence it must be legal.

vesselwiththepestle

TBois wrote: »

Gate camping is taking the tri keeps and staying at the open gate that has no scroll to fight the people coming out of the gate. None of these options describe gate camping, and gate camping rarely happens these days.

That was one of the first experiences I had in PVP in eso. As a total newbie to pvp in eso and new eso player in general (not sure if I even was on CP levels when that happened), I didn't come back to pvp for a looong time.

That and exactly that is gate camping and in my opinion it should be an illegal offense, maybe causing a week-long ban or something like that.

Getting home keeps when you already have the scrolls and are no 1 in campaign just because there is nothing else to do is very annoying and sad for the losing alliances. It's not fair play in my opinion, but it should be allowed and possible. Stuff like that should be something which alliances could decide not to do for themselves. Similar to sports. In football ("soccer") it happens that a team hands out the football to the other team for fair play reasons, for example if in player opinion the judge made a wrong call.

So just because something is allowed or the game gives you the right to do something, it might not be the right thing to do. However, that everyone has to decide for himself. Although it would be possible for guilds from different alliances to talk about stuff like that and set their own rules of fair play and conduct.

What I find really annoying is when an alliance not only gets your gate keeps (when temples are already empty), but also defends them heavily... I think in long term it demotivates enemy players and just a hint, you earn more AP when there are more enemies to kill... Having the other faction rage-quit may be good in short term, but might hurt the campaign in the long term.

Mr_Walker

Greasytengu wrote: »

If a faction gates another while there is a major population discrepancy (3 bars vs 1) then its kinda a s'wit move. A gated faction in this scenario has little to no ability to escape and the state of the map will likely encourage more casual players to just log out, further widening the population gap.

Been there, done that, cobbled together a small group once just after faction lock was introduced, I think I had 6 out of the 10 people on in our faction, try to take a home keep, get run over by 20 cretins in an obviously well organised group who furiously teabag you like it's some achievement, we all turn off and go play another game.

I can understand if they need points, but they were 20K+ clear with less than a week to go. It's stupid, and totally kills PvP.

doomette

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Greasytengu wrote: »

If a faction gates another while there is a major population discrepancy (3 bars vs 1) then its kinda a s'wit move. A gated faction in this scenario has little to no ability to escape and the state of the map will likely encourage more casual players to just log out, further widening the population gap.

Been there, done that, cobbled together a small group once just after faction lock was introduced, I think I had 6 out of the 10 people on in our faction, try to take a home keep, get run over by 20 cretins in an obviously well organised group who furiously teabag you like it's some achievement, we all turn off and go play another game.

I can understand if they need points, but they were 20K+ clear with less than a week to go. It's stupid, and totally kills PvP.

And it’s really shooting yourself in the bits if you actually like to PVP, as it just encourages the members of the gated, underpopulated faction to leave in frustration/disgust. That’s why it always strikes me that the people who do this don’t actually like to PVP. Or only like to PVP when it’s the equivalent of shooting fish in a barrel. Classy.

I’ve only seen it a couple of times and it may be perfectly within the rules, but man, it sure is a di-... er, jerk move.

Soul_Demon

Gate Camping is taking the gate keeps themselves, Example, Kings and Farr, and/or fighting at the gate, “regardless” of points.

Lord_Bashu wrote: »

I am trying to create a common definition of gate camping.

Some people seem to think taking back/gate keeps is gate camping.

Some people seem to think taking a keep like Arrius is gate camping.

Some people think it matters what the score is, to determine if its gate camping.

The few that have responded here so far, are using the literal definition of actually being at the gate or the enemy base.
So already there is proof that there is no common definition.

How do others define it?

It happens in many camps, but less so in the populated camps which is true for example currently in Gray Host. But my goal is to create a common definition of what it is. There is a common thought that “gate camping” is bad. And if its bad, then it needs to have a clear definition.

So what do you think?

Thanks to everyone who is contributing it is appreciated.

Gate camping is take one or all of the back two keeps and then....and this is the important part here- camping at the gate where players would exit to do anything in cyro and farming them there.

IAmIcehouse

Gate Camping is taking the gate keeps themselves, Example, Kings and Farr, and/or fighting at the gate, “regardless” of points.

Taking and defending the gate keeps IMO is gate camping (once scrolls are gone). Taking all their non-base spawns away is a surefire way to keep the population low. And it sucks for both sides. It's not fun when you are 3 bar fighting against 1 bars.

Many people, especially the more casual, won't even bother coming into Cyrodil when they see their gate keeps gone. Hell, even in our sweaty tryhard guild, we have people who don't bother coming when the map is pushed to our gates and the two other factions are 1bar.

Joy_Division

Enkil wrote: »

Gate camping is taking DEFENDING the two closest scroll/tri-keeps (Farra/Kings), (BM/BB), (Warden/Rayles) AFTER you (or some others) have ALREADY TAKEN THE SCROLL(S) from the corresponding scroll temples.

If keep is protecting gate to a scroll-containing temple, it is certainly fair game!!

GATE CAMPING is a VERY WEAK form of gameplay that discourages and stifles competition, and when pop is low, can and usually does cause some of those defenders u would want to PvP, to log off, exacerbating population imbalances. Score is totally irrelevant as what matters is the player-base that is on (that you are gate camping?). Hit L and u can see it anytime.

How is this basic thing unclear 6 years after launch???

NO POLL IS NEEDED.

People are making this more complicated than it is. What this poster emphasizes is not gate camping. Please. If it's a close campaign, I'm not giving you back Warden or Kingscrest just because the scroll is no longer there. Even if it's not a close campaign, I'm still not giving those back if the population is even remotely fair.

The first response in the thread, the one with more likes than responses, is all that needed to be written.

IxSTALKERxI

The concept of gate camping is mostly a human one. It's a term that refers to when a player in an MMORPG like World of Warcraft or Eve Online sits at the entrance (gate) to an area and waits for someone else from inside the game come out, so that they can attack them. The reason you might want to do this would be if there were some kind of reward for killing people who leave the area - maybe it makes your own character stronger or gives you something valuable.

This is a general tactic in all games that have different levels and areas within them, which you need to explore one by one. You move through the game world from place to place and level up your character as you go, like a role-playing game (RPG). This means gates are always important points in these kinds of games because there's no point going into an area if someone can just come out of it before you get there.

The idea of gate camping isn't really an Eve thing, though. In the real world there are no gates, and you don't need to use them in the same way as a player would in a game like World of Warcraft.

In the real world, you can't just go through a gate and then be attacked. You need to have some kind of interaction with another person before they can hurt you.

In the real world, gate camping doesn't really make sense as a tactic because it would only benefit you if someone else was doing it to you. If people are just going through gates without attacking anyone and nothing is waiting for them on the other side then they might as well leave.

This is because the only reason to gate camp would be to kill people who have nothing better to do and aren't prepared for a fight. If you really want someone dead, it's much more effective just to find them on their own - that way they won't have an army with them.

DUTCH_REAPER

Your options are not viable. It is when no scrolls are behind the gates and the opposing faction who owns the scrolls continues to hold those tri keeps.

Want healthy PVp everytime you log in? Then don’t hold onto tri keeps of a faction after you’ve taken their scrolls. It discourages players and they log off. Which means less people and less pvp. Eww.

Beardimus

Gate Camping is taking the gate keeps themselves, Example, Kings and Farr, and/or fighting at the gate, “regardless” of points.

TBois wrote: »

Gate camping is taking the tri keeps and staying at the open gate that has no scroll to fight the people coming out of the gate. None of these options describe gate camping, and gate camping rarely happens these days.

Nailed it.
You camp, at the enemy gate, and don't let them out.

AD did this for my first month in PvP which is why I have a hatred of then even 5 years later haha.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

Gate Camping is taking the gate keeps themselves, Example, Kings and Farr, and/or fighting at the gate, “regardless” of points.

DUTCH_REAPER wrote: »

Your options are not viable. It is when no scrolls are behind the gates and the opposing faction who owns the scrolls continues to hold those tri keeps.

Want healthy PVp everytime you log in? Then don’t hold onto tri keeps of a faction after you’ve taken their scrolls. It discourages players and they log off. Which means less people and less pvp. Eww.

Dutch has it right. If you want to PVP and you have taken all of the scrolls, then why the heck are you attacking the gate keep again? I have seen a certain faction attack Rayles multiple times when Alma is in Drakelowe. It is basic psychology. If you demoralize someone, they will just leave. You can take the scrolls as that is part of the game, but sitting there waiting to ambush anyone trying to leave the gate so they can get their trikeeps back is going to kill the PVP completely. I have seen it on multiple occasions.

It doesn't happen, you say. Here is a recent example of multiple days : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/544306/

Minnesinger

I have thought it is when an enemy group/ players stand in front of the home base or genarally hunt down players in their own temple area.

ealdwin

Minnesinger wrote: »

I have thought it is when an enemy group/ players stand in front of the home base or genarally hunt down players in their own temple area.

There's various different degrees of it.

The worst is hunting down players in their own Temple area, or camping at the Temple gates to kill players passing through, when there is no scroll in the Temple. This act effectively prevents players in an opposing faction from participating in Cyrodiil. And, then there is when a faction keeps a hold of the Gate Keeps when there is no scroll in the Temples behind those gates, which in effect also prevents players in an opposing faction from participating in Cyrodiil.

For instance, imagine AD has 1-Bar population and keeps trying to retake Bloodmayne Lumbermill, but a zerg of the faction that owns it shows up everytime to beat them. Eventually those AD are just going to leave and find fun elsweyr. This doesn't just affect AD, it also means that the faction that currently has the other two gate camped will see less action, less battles, and less fun overall. Gate camping in any form only serves to ruin a campaign.

Grimhallow

There is no such thing as gate camping, its all legal.

Do you know what might solve this? Removing campaign faction locks.

Big Brain.

VaranisArano

Grimick wrote: »

Do you know what might solve this? Removing campaign faction locks.

Big Brain.

Nah, it happened back when we didn't have the faction locks too.

Its not really something that can be "solved" because PVPers don't have a hive mind. No matter how much someone is saying "Guys, we want good fights, so let them out of the gates," someone else is thinking "Boy, I'd better get all the AP I can right now hunting down easy targets", and someone else is trying to run up the score. And in my experience, there's probably someone going "Look, I've only got so much time to PVP, I can't really be picky now."

Its like any other form of "honorable" PVP. You can have your standards, but short of being a raid leader, no one else is obligated to fall in line with your standards of "this is how PVP should be played" and they probably won't.



The last time I remember being seriously gate-camped on a non-locked campaign, I and a handful of EP spent two hours trying to capture and keep a home keep against an AD raid who kept letting us take it, then would recapture it for the AP. We eventually gave up and started capturing their back keep resources instead until they got bored of us not feeding them easy AP and logged off.

I get why they did it. It was the only fight on the whole map, so they were probably bored AF and they wanted the AP. And I'll admit the challenge was kinda fun for us, for a while. But then it got boring and too predictable, so we moved on, and they moved on.

In short, I think most people who gate-camp have reasons that make sense to them, and no amount of pointing out that its detrimental to the long-term competitiveness of a campaign/faction is going to make much of a difference in the moment. There's no real solution to something mostly driven by self-interest.