Question about Cyrodiil ethics

nukk3r

I have a question that has been bothering me for quite some time. Where lies the line between bad sportsmanship and deliberate griefing?
You can dominate the map and be civil about it or you can do this:
[snip]

Does such behavior fall under a violation of Code of Conduct paragraph 2.3 or is it fair play?

N.B. I have no issue with night/morning capping. If taking empty keeps is your cup of tea, be my guest.

[Edited to remove Naming and Shaming]

VaranisArano

Does this answer your question?

Source: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/546727/was-it-ever-confirmed-if-tea-bagging-is-against-tos-now/p1

As always, if you really think something violates the TOS, you should report it to ZOS. They are the only people who can do something about it as opposed to the forum peanut gallery who can only opinionate.

WaywardArgonian

This seems like lousy sportsmanship to me personally, but nothing that I'd say goes against the Code of Conduct, as I think the zone was developed to allow this sort of thing to happen. So not the most beneficial for a healthy pvp environment perhaps, but if the game allows for it, then hey.

VaranisArano

nukk3r wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Does this answer your question?

Source: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/546727/was-it-ever-confirmed-if-tea-bagging-is-against-tos-now/p1

As always, if you really think something violates the TOS, you should report it to ZOS. They are the only people who can do something about it as opposed to the forum peanut gallery who can only opinionate.

[Quoted post was removed]

So...the answer I'm hearing from you is "No, I don't think this behavior is a violation of the Code of Conduct, or else I'd have reported it to ZOS."

Don't get me wrong. I understand getting frustrated with how opponents play (the gate-camping, in this case, I assume) and wanting to complain about it. But when you ask "Is this a punishable violation of the game rules", that's a question only ZOS can answer. And by not asking it of ZOS, you yourself make it clear that you don't think so. Or at least that you don't care enough to make that report (which is self-defeating, but oh well, you do you).

So complain away! I hope venting about it helps! Just, ah, if you want anything done about it by the only people with the power to do so, you obviously know what to do.

Zer0oo

Actual that are exploits:

• You clearly see that they know if they move any further they will instant die from the protection of the base and therefor they stay exactly on the edge. They know they should not do this and it should normally not work.
• As for the chains, considering they normally do not work on walls i would say it is an exploit too.

Tbh i think zos could pretty much ban them but on the other hand it is zos and their action are really random and i would not expect them to do anything or at max some warning or 3day ban.

As for this scene, just think about how poor you must be to actual stand with a 3 bar faction on the gate of another faction with one bar to camp their spawn. It says a lot about the persons doing this.

ealdwin

It's absolutely [snip] behavior.

That being said, the forums can't do anything about it. As others have said, submit a ticket to ZOS if you believe those trolls were participating in griefing.

If you want to open up a discussion regarding potential solutions ZOS could implement to prevent such wretched abuse of the nature of Cyrodiil, that would be a different question.

[Edited to remove Profanity]

ZOS_ConnorG

Greetings all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Baiting. When engaging in a discussion you must keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

You are welcome to review the Community Rules here.

CSose

That is unsportsmanlike conduct, but not a violation of the TOS.

I find it ironic that a DC player is bringing up this topic given how DC has been playing the last 3-5 campaigns. (PC NA Grey Host, which is where the video was taken)

Leslik

No. It's EU Grey host. And that's pretty normal at that time of night. I struggle to understand how they find it fun. I would be bored as hell if that's what I spent my night doing

nukk3r

CSose wrote: »

That is unsportsmanlike conduct, but not a violation of the TOS.

I find it ironic that a DC player is bringing up this topic given how DC has been playing the last 3-5 campaigns. (PC NA Grey Host, which is where the video was taken)

It is PC EU Greyhost. DC hasn't won a single campaign in months. I think we won one in the middle of summer 2020 and that was a really tight win, like 1k difference.

nukk3r

VaranisArano wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Does this answer your question?

Source: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/546727/was-it-ever-confirmed-if-tea-bagging-is-against-tos-now/p1

As always, if you really think something violates the TOS, you should report it to ZOS. They are the only people who can do something about it as opposed to the forum peanut gallery who can only opinionate.

[Quoted post was removed]

So...the answer I'm hearing from you is "No, I don't think this behavior is a violation of the Code of Conduct, or else I'd have reported it to ZOS."

Don't get me wrong. I understand getting frustrated with how opponents play (the gate-camping, in this case, I assume) and wanting to complain about it. But when you ask "Is this a punishable violation of the game rules", that's a question only ZOS can answer. And by not asking it of ZOS, you yourself make it clear that you don't think so. Or at least that you don't care enough to make that report (which is self-defeating, but oh well, you do you).

So complain away! I hope venting about it helps! Just, ah, if you want anything done about it by the only people with the power to do so, you obviously know what to do.

I have reported all the players whose names are visible in the video.

Leslik

DC won once during the last round of tests 2020. Before that it was Christmas 2019

Starshadw

nukk3r wrote: »

I have a question that has been bothering me for quite some time. Where lies the line between bad sportsmanship and deliberate griefing?
You can dominate the map and be civil about it or you can do this:
[snip]

Does such behavior fall under a violation of Code of Conduct paragraph 2.3 or is it fair play?

N.B. I have no issue with night/morning capping. If taking empty keeps is your cup of tea, be my guest.

You need to report it - and in particular, file a bug/exploit report. Opposing alliances are not supposed to be able to get up there. AS for the gate-camping: it's garbage, and there ought to be ways to prevent it. But since they really aren't, your best bet is to actually be in stealth, and get a group to either stealth drop off away from the main attack and then push in from the side - or, even better, stealth out and get your center keep flagged in order to close the gates.

VaranisArano

nukk3r wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

nukk3r wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Does this answer your question?

Source: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/546727/was-it-ever-confirmed-if-tea-bagging-is-against-tos-now/p1

As always, if you really think something violates the TOS, you should report it to ZOS. They are the only people who can do something about it as opposed to the forum peanut gallery who can only opinionate.

[Quoted post was removed]

So...the answer I'm hearing from you is "No, I don't think this behavior is a violation of the Code of Conduct, or else I'd have reported it to ZOS."

Don't get me wrong. I understand getting frustrated with how opponents play (the gate-camping, in this case, I assume) and wanting to complain about it. But when you ask "Is this a punishable violation of the game rules", that's a question only ZOS can answer. And by not asking it of ZOS, you yourself make it clear that you don't think so. Or at least that you don't care enough to make that report (which is self-defeating, but oh well, you do you).

So complain away! I hope venting about it helps! Just, ah, if you want anything done about it by the only people with the power to do so, you obviously know what to do.

I have reported all the players whose names are visible in the video.

Good! That's precisely what should be done if there's a question about behavior. ZOS can look at it and figure it out.

Also, because neither the video nor the original post made it clear, what behavior are you pointing out? The gate camping? Or the way some of those players got up on top of the gate? As was pointed out by others, the latter is a bug/exploit if they are using skills to get into areas they aren't supposed to be.

Jackey

That used to happen a lot in the early days of PS4 EU. I think EP was just the most popular alliance and people didn't know what to do if they took the map.
Haven't seen that since, brought back some memories lol

NoSoup

What's the issue, spawn camping? Am I missing something?

usmguy1234

I posted a video recently on a similar issue. Personally, I think between the absolutely terrible pvp meta and the abysmal server performance, the atmosphere around cyrodiil is as toxic as it ever has been. In all of my years played (since launch), I have never been tbagged by so many people I have never met before or zerged as aggressively as now. Many other people I have talked to feel similarly. People on here may not agree with me but when such behavior becomes the status quo rather than a rare occurrence, you know something is fundamentally wrong with the game.

Augustus67

usmguy1234 wrote: »

I posted a video recently on a similar issue. Personally, I think between the absolutely terrible pvp meta and the abysmal server performance, the atmosphere around cyrodiil is as toxic as it ever has been. In all of my years played (since launch), I have never been tbagged by so many people I have never met before or zerged as aggressively as now. Many other people I have talked to feel similarly. People on here may not agree with me but when such behavior becomes the status quo rather than a rare occurrence, you know something is fundamentally wrong with the game.

No,something is fundamentally wrong with people.

Ackwalan

You get defensive ticks while fighting from your home base. In truth, they are feeding you AP, and all you have to do is stand back firing a trebuchet.

ximelolagnia

IMO I saw nothing bannable in the video. The burden is on ZOS to fix unintended mechanics, if they are truly unintended. Gate camping is possible and has happened plenty of times before, the beauty of it is the fact that people gate camping usually get bored very quickly. You can't expect people bored in cyrodil to wait outside and let you take a few keeps before fighting back. I don't know if zenimax never intended for people to be able to get up into the spawn area on the very edge or not but it has been around for years. Instead of banning people for getting up there, they should work on fixing it, if it even needs fixing. Personally being gate camped is a heart warming gift if it ever happens to me because it gives some of the most fun ganking situations on the map if you do it properly.

That's my opinion on the situation anyway, please don't hurt me. :^(

jhharvest

I don't think they should be able to get on that ledge. But I also think this is a case of log out and do something else. There was more reds at your own gate than you. That's not healthy and says there's something wrong with the campaign.

Master_Kas

Hm thought you're supposed to die instantly if you manage to get up on the edge like those reds did? I remember trying to ambush up long time ago and got instantly nuk3d ( ) by the barrier.

Or did zos change something?

pkuronen

Nightcapping is mostly PVE and I still don't understand the fun in it. You fight computer toons and doors. Better off with dungeons or trials where you actually get some resistance.

The fact that capping is the key element to winning a campaign nullifies the whole idea of a campaign.

ZOS could you please make the point system somehow be aware of the population of the factions? Then all factions can enjoy their PVDooring without ruining the campaign.

usmguy1234

Augustus67 wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

I posted a video recently on a similar issue. Personally, I think between the absolutely terrible pvp meta and the abysmal server performance, the atmosphere around cyrodiil is as toxic as it ever has been. In all of my years played (since launch), I have never been tbagged by so many people I have never met before or zerged as aggressively as now. Many other people I have talked to feel similarly. People on here may not agree with me but when such behavior becomes the status quo rather than a rare occurrence, you know something is fundamentally wrong with the game.

No,something is fundamentally wrong with people.

Though I agree with this partially, humans tend to emulate their environment especially if there's nothing in place to correct inappropriate behaviors. Like I've said I've played since launch and I've never seen a gm in game. Maybe if zos had the forum moderators police the game instead of the forums, a lot of the toxic behaviors would die down.

usmguy1234

Master_Kas wrote: »

Hm thought you're supposed to die instantly if you manage to get up on the edge like those reds did? I remember trying to ambush up long time ago and got instantly nuk3d ( ) by the barrier.

Or did zos change something?

There are still ways to bypass the gates even when they're closed so it wouldn't surprise me.

Leslik

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Though I agree with this partially, humans tend to emulate their environment especially if there's nothing in place to correct inappropriate behaviors. Like I've said I've played since launch and I've never seen a gm in game. Maybe if zos had the forum moderators police the game instead of the forums, a lot of the toxic behaviors would die down.

Yeah. That little loadscreen banner about real Zos gamesmasters have a Z next to their name is a fairy tale

But seriously I agree with your point. Real in-game moderation rather than forum police it's what's needed.

usmguy1234

Leslik wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Though I agree with this partially, humans tend to emulate their environment especially if there's nothing in place to correct inappropriate behaviors. Like I've said I've played since launch and I've never seen a gm in game. Maybe if zos had the forum moderators police the game instead of the forums, a lot of the toxic behaviors would die down.

Yeah. That little loadscreen banner about real Zos gamesmasters have a Z next to their name is a fairy tale

But seriously I agree with your point. Real in-game moderation rather than forum police it's what's needed.

Honestly you'd kill two birds with one stone as most of the issues could be handled in game or reported to the devs in a timely manner. This method has been used in many successful mmos throughout the years so I'm not sure why eso is the exception.

CSose

nukk3r wrote: »

CSose wrote: »

That is unsportsmanlike conduct, but not a violation of the TOS.

I find it ironic that a DC player is bringing up this topic given how DC has been playing the last 3-5 campaigns. (PC NA Grey Host, which is where the video was taken)

It is PC EU Greyhost. DC hasn't won a single campaign in months. I think we won one in the middle of summer 2020 and that was a really tight win, like 1k difference.

I see. I doubt it will make you feel better, but DC is doing what you are complaining about on the PC NA server, and the day before I saw your post EP had actually gated DC for a change.

CSose

Leslik wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Though I agree with this partially, humans tend to emulate their environment especially if there's nothing in place to correct inappropriate behaviors. Like I've said I've played since launch and I've never seen a gm in game. Maybe if zos had the forum moderators police the game instead of the forums, a lot of the toxic behaviors would die down.

Yeah. That little loadscreen banner about real Zos gamesmasters have a Z next to their name is a fairy tale

But seriously I agree with your point. Real in-game moderation rather than forum police it's what's needed.

Um, no thank you. Half of everyone in cyro would be perma banned for using a foul word that is allowed during prime time television.

usmguy1234

CSose wrote: »

Leslik wrote: »

usmguy1234 wrote: »

Though I agree with this partially, humans tend to emulate their environment especially if there's nothing in place to correct inappropriate behaviors. Like I've said I've played since launch and I've never seen a gm in game. Maybe if zos had the forum moderators police the game instead of the forums, a lot of the toxic behaviors would die down.

Yeah. That little loadscreen banner about real Zos gamesmasters have a Z next to their name is a fairy tale

But seriously I agree with your point. Real in-game moderation rather than forum police it's what's needed.

Um, no thank you. Half of everyone in cyro would be perma banned for using a foul word that is allowed during prime time television.

It would be a small sacrifice to pay to get all the exploiters, griefers and people spewing racial and gender slurs purged from the game.

Ringod123

Yeah, you can't "name and shame" as it shows other how many cheaters are in the game, something ZOS likes to pretend doesn't exist. Pretty sad when 95% of "dev responses" on the forums are just mods deleting posts.