Nerf dizzing swing. Period.

Haza_212 · February 2021

This whole thread sounds like a case of LTP not gonna lie

LightYagami · February 2021

I'll say please remove the casting time and reduce the effects to balance the removed casting time.

It helps 2H players to have smoother game plays, also helps their opponents not to be killed by desync.
Problems with dizzying and snipe are related to desync. In fact this game can't handle casting time abilities well...

There are always desync. Sometimes dizzying users can't hit enemies under the desync, sometimes their opponents are killed by multiple hits in 1 second.

ZOS, fix your desync or revamp casting time abilities, please!

Edit: fixed : dizzying instead of executioner

eyesreye · February 2021

Dizzy swing definitely needs a nerf.

Adenoma · February 2021

What if we did something crazy and made weapon lines perform up to 2h level? Few suggestions:

Change 1h&s back to having a viable DPS skill with one morph of deep/heroic slash a DPS option, the other the PvE tank default. Give reverb back it’s defile with a 50% uptime.

Change DW back to having shrouded daggers bounce for damage and give up on the cruddy gap closer morph. Make one morph of it like a classless surprise attack with a chance to cause either off-balance or bleed. Maybe change the gap closer to a CC option.

Change the bow line to have a instant-cast version of snipe and a ganking version. Make poison injection actually have decent scaleable execute again.

Change destruction staff to having a single target execute version of impulse or destructive reach with scaling similar to executioner.

Change restoration staff to having a higher initial heal on healing ward. Change rapids/mutagen to not stacking. Make the drain spirit or whatever to something more potent so it’s actually worth running.

With the new armor penalties/bonuses, change the requisite number of pieces on armor skills to 4 so it improves build diversity.

Change proximity detonation morphs so the delayed targeted version explodes if purged. Change purge so that it has a stacking cost like streak or dodge roll.

Reduce the efficacy of warden arctic heal burst, but increase the efficacy of its HOT. As a warden main, it shouldn’t feel like a get out jail free card. Do the same to WW burst heal.

Rework one morph of dawn breaker to be a Magicka burst ult and one to be stamina or if that’s not agreeable, make one morph of ice comet a burst ult and the other delayed.

ZOS is all about diversity, but they’ve changed weapon lines to limit both Magicka and stamina builds where barring certain classes, 2h is the overperforming stamina line and Magicka has a tiny amount of build diversity in terms of weapon line choices.

Also, make Malacath not affect procs.

There, we’ve made positive changes - but I think a lot of us are amenable to a ton of different options.

Sanctum74 · February 2021

@Adenoma I regret I only have 1 awesome to give, great ideas!

relentless_turnip · February 2021

I would be happy if rally was just moved to a universal skill line. I think that alone would bring a lot of balance to weapons and may incentives many builds away from 2h.

Chilly-McFreeze · February 2021

relentless_turnip wrote: »

I would be happy if rally was just moved to a universal skill line. I think that alone would bring a lot of balance to weapons and may incentives many builds away from 2h.

master_vanargand wrote: »

Please remove the snared from Dizzying Swing. [...]

These two changes alone would make for a sensible start. Other than that, Adenoma's wider view contains some good knowledge about what's really lacking.

I can't stop repeating myself but of course you get comments like this:

eyesreye wrote: »

Literally 90% of my death recaps are filled with Dizzy swing spammers.

when the devs nerf every single stamina weapon except 2h, which ironically got buffed at the same patch.
Same as saying "vigor or flame staff is/ old insta frags morph was used too much (in comparison to cast time morph).
Raise a few alternatives so it isn't X or bust and you see some variety.
But I guess some people would rather remove the cherry on a pile of crap.

However I don't see the issue in this:

eyesreye wrote: »

Executioner is so much stronger than Class Execution skills.

Some classes don't even have an (stamina) execute. So what?

yeyesil · February 2021

Because most stamina classes have no chance instead of dizzy. You need to wait for another 14 secs to make your opponent offbalance to stun them. It's used by most classes as the developers dont give a good alternative to dizzy. It's the strongest spammable for most classes but it doesn't mean it's broken as you die to it. Again a l2p issue as always. There are lots of buggy skills and exploits in game.

Adenoma · February 2021

Weirdly with the heavy armor and CP changes with respect to CC immunity and mitigation, I think that dizzying swing is only going to be in a stronger place now that we’re even further incentivized to not trigger increased sustain or damage mitigation on opponents by giving them CC immunity next patch.

The rarity of CC from it is going to be a huge boon against heavy armor enemies (which will be most of Cyrodiil if things go out as they are).

Chilly-McFreeze · February 2021

Adenoma wrote: »

Weirdly with the heavy armor and CP changes with respect to CC immunity and mitigation, I think that dizzying swing is only going to be in a stronger place now that we’re even further incentivized to not trigger increased sustain or damage mitigation on opponents by giving them CC immunity next patch.

The rarity of CC from it is going to be a huge boon against heavy armor enemies (which will be most of Cyrodiil if things go out as they are).

What do you mean? I seem to be missing something here. My sarcasm detector isn't working.

Adenoma · February 2021

I can’t recall any nerfs to DS, but heavy armor passives and CP will boost your mitigation pretty significantly when you are CC immune. Dizzying triggers that very rarely.

relentless_turnip · February 2021

Dizzy has been indirectly nerfed by the removal of the exploiter passive from the cp tree. I don't find it as impactful or threatening in no cp so perhaps we may see dw or s&b used a little more in cp PvP.

SHOW · February 2021

Adenoma wrote: »

What if we did something crazy and made weapon lines perform up to 2h level? Few suggestions:

Change 1h&s back to having a viable DPS skill with one morph of deep/heroic slash a DPS option, the other the PvE tank default. Give reverb back it’s defile with a 50% uptime.

Change DW back to having shrouded daggers bounce for damage and give up on the cruddy gap closer morph. Make one morph of it like a classless surprise attack with a chance to cause either off-balance or bleed. Maybe change the gap closer to a CC option.

Change the bow line to have a instant-cast version of snipe and a ganking version. Make poison injection actually have decent scaleable execute again.

Change destruction staff to having a single target execute version of impulse or destructive reach with scaling similar to executioner.

Change restoration staff to having a higher initial heal on healing ward. Change rapids/mutagen to not stacking. Make the drain spirit or whatever to something more potent so it’s actually worth running.

With the new armor penalties/bonuses, change the requisite number of pieces on armor skills to 4 so it improves build diversity.

Change proximity detonation morphs so the delayed targeted version explodes if purged. Change purge so that it has a stacking cost like streak or dodge roll.

Reduce the efficacy of warden arctic heal burst, but increase the efficacy of its HOT. As a warden main, it shouldn’t feel like a get out jail free card. Do the same to WW burst heal.

Rework one morph of dawn breaker to be a Magicka burst ult and one to be stamina or if that’s not agreeable, make one morph of ice comet a burst ult and the other delayed.

ZOS is all about diversity, but they’ve changed weapon lines to limit both Magicka and stamina builds where barring certain classes, 2h is the overperforming stamina line and Magicka has a tiny amount of build diversity in terms of weapon line choices.

Also, make Malacath not affect procs.

There, we’ve made positive changes - but I think a lot of us are amenable to a ton of different options.

This guy gets it.

Ezorus · March 2021

I like how it has a cast time but some how hits twice and followed by execute before I even see the first animation

finehair · March 2021

It used to be op I agree even though I used it since I started playing eso. That knockback on first hit was really good and impossible to break free.
Now it stuns you on second, deals less damage. It's still the same old clunky paddle swing, meaning that you can walk through the caster and they won't be able to hit you, unless it's lagging and they are not actually in that position.
Also skill delaying and hitting you in the exact same second is the reason people get melted like that, I see 1 dizzying swing and an executioner on my screen but my death cap says I got hit by 5 dizzies so yeah.
I think the jabs of Templar is the same, good skill but easy to avoid by clipping through the caster and going behind them if the lag is not acting up.
I usually can't do that thing and get murdered by templars but whatever.

Adenoma · March 2021

@SHOW , I think I've got a different design philosophy than ZOS - I don't like homogeneity amongst classes and very much disagree with their plan to have tank/DPS/healing skill lines. I'm a huge fan of patches in the past.

Full disclosure - I used to be a S&B DPS bar stamDK, then stamden when they made a strictly better version (for a time, I don't feel that way now) P2W class. Then they nerfed all DPS options for S&B and gave us the shield bash morph while taking most of the utility from S&B with the exception of the pierce armor buff.

But god, give me back degenerate attrition DK and I would be in heaven. Defile needs to be buffed, especially with the incoming strategic reserve CP. Battle roar scaling from max stats again would push at least one class back to being stat-based. Guiltily, though, I do miss running tava's with shuffle and fasalla's when it had its unique 50% heal debuff. Or tava's + fury. Oh man, now I'm getting nostalgic.

Frankly, I want more unique sets. If we're going to be a proc meta, at least make it a little more volatile than the current DOT procs and have it be a burst meta. I am disappointed at present with no-proc tests because I was crushing folks for a while with fire+poisonous serpent on stamden/stamcro. It was a lot of fun and I had only just put it all together.

All the no-proc test has done is return some semblance of skill to PvP and like we all predicted: better players will still do well.

I just don't want to see 2h nerfed because all that means is we're stuck with the same diversity and we're lowering our ceiling and keeping the floor the same for everyone who isn't using a 2h.

TwinLamps · March 2021

Raideen wrote: »

EVERY. SINGLE. MATCH the core of what kills me, regardless of what character, regardless if its a tank, healer or DPS, regardless of 33k resist and 5k health...is dizzing swing. Its broken ZOS, FIX IT.

it would be easier for you to, like, fix your poor performance than for zos to nerf dizzy.
Just saying