God tanks and heavy armor........

hyraak · March 2019

Jeremy wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

u22.....

can we seriously look at god tanks and heavy armor dps... this is a massive problem and its killing pvp

you have tanks in pvp that take 8+ ppl to kill, that is so broken it shouldnt need a discussion. Seriously, in what other game would needing a small zerg of players to kill one person be considered ok? I can see an argument for 2-3 players needing to focus down a pure pvp tank build but 8+ is ridiculous. Personal suggestion, add resistance to battle spirit, cut it by 50%. Damage, heals, shields are all cut in half by battle spirit i see no reason why resistance shouldnt be. Maybe its overkill, reduced by 25% is maybe enough but hell is theres one thing im ok with seeing you over nerf zos, its heavy armor.

7th legion and ravager are also a problem. They give as much damage as spell strat. Ss is light 7th and ravager are heavy. Ya there not exactly the same, theyre harder to proc. Still tho, when the effect is active they have spell strat dmg in heavy with heavy resistances. They need to be either toned down or made medium

Or just play none CP PvP. This issue does not exist there.

again, it does exist in cp, and that should be balanced.....

No. It doesn't exist in None CP PvP. I have never seen it once - not ever. So if 8 players are having problems killing someone in heavy armor in none CP PVP the problem is on the damage-dealing end or there is something else at play.

If I were you I would also just give up your dream of a so-called "balanced" PvP system. it's never happened and never is going to happen.

So again: if this bothers you enough to warrant a thread about it why not just opt for none-CP PvP? it's not balanced either. But you don't have to worry about these builds that are bothering you so much there at least. That's the better solution here instead of once again nerfing a build another player likely put a lot of work into making.

Herein lies the issue with the community and the game.

First off, the game is imbalanced. Which may sound like a bad thing, and quite often it is, but if the game were to be completely balanced the sense of distinction between classes would only fall to the animations of class specific skills.

Secondly, the response to go play non-cp is counter intuitive to your reply of "don't nerf a build someone put a lot of time into" simply due to the fact that Champion points have been a central part of the game since it's creation. People also put a lot of time into obtaining their CP rank so why take away that sense of progression by being forced to play in a campaign (or Battleground) that doesn't allow the use of CP?

Finally, yes there are tanks in pvp. However, there are generally two types of tanks, the ones that can tank a zerg and the ones who can tank anywhere from 1-5 players while still being able to dish out punishing damage. The latter is the problem. You can avoid a strict tank, but the other will pursue the fight because they know they have damage behind their tankability. I agree something needs to be done with the tank meta (specifically proc sets like Fury and Seventh Legion).

Burtan · March 2019

ArchMikem wrote: »

Sy1ph5 wrote: »

If it takes you 8 players to kill someone you should ask yourself to questions. 1)why am I in a group with people that are this terrible? 2) why on earth am I intentionally focusing a tank?

1, that tank is still an enemy player and 2, that player still somehow has enough damage to single burst people down if left unchecked. The whole argument about PvP tanks hit like noodles is pure bull today, just last night in Vivec i encountered a dozen blue and yellow players, 2H and S&B builds who go from bursting gankers one bar to unkillable tanks on the other. Two of them together halted an entire siege once. You cant take them down quickly and if you ignore them theyll just start picking you off one by one. There is no tradeoff anymore, people cant use that excuse.

l2P issue, you need a better build.

ArchMikem · March 2019

Burtan wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Sy1ph5 wrote: »

If it takes you 8 players to kill someone you should ask yourself to questions. 1)why am I in a group with people that are this terrible? 2) why on earth am I intentionally focusing a tank?

1, that tank is still an enemy player and 2, that player still somehow has enough damage to single burst people down if left unchecked. The whole argument about PvP tanks hit like noodles is pure bull today, just last night in Vivec i encountered a dozen blue and yellow players, 2H and S&B builds who go from bursting gankers one bar to unkillable tanks on the other. Two of them together halted an entire siege once. You cant take them down quickly and if you ignore them theyll just start picking you off one by one. There is no tradeoff anymore, people cant use that excuse.

l2P issue, you need a better build.

No, its really not.

ccfeeling · March 2019

It's about the survivability .

Light and Medium are not really helpful in PVP .

Dead man cannot kill people .

zyk · March 2019

To people who blow off troll tanks as useless players you can ignore, you're wrong. This is only true if you don't care about objectives and constantly just pick fights that favor you.

When you play according to objectives, you have to deal with whatever shows up. Troll tanks may not be able to burst anyone down, but they often have other benefits to those around in the form of buffs and debuffs, they rez, they siege and must be forcefully removed from flags.

I personally think stalemate builds should not be possible in a PVP game. I think the only reason they exist in ESO PVP is because of the issues ZOS has balancing PVE and PVP together.

Illuvatarr · March 2019

onegunholiday wrote: »

They also trade immortality for a lack of serious dps.

Not really:)

Girl_Number8 · March 2019

ezio45 wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

u22.....

can we seriously look at god tanks and heavy armor dps... this is a massive problem and its killing pvp

you have tanks in pvp that take 8+ ppl to kill, that is so broken it shouldnt need a discussion. Seriously, in what other game would needing a small zerg of players to kill one person be considered ok? I can see an argument for 2-3 players needing to focus down a pure pvp tank build but 8+ is ridiculous. Personal suggestion, add resistance to battle spirit, cut it by 50%. Damage, heals, shields are all cut in half by battle spirit i see no reason why resistance shouldnt be. Maybe its overkill, reduced by 25% is maybe enough but hell is theres one thing im ok with seeing you over nerf zos, its heavy armor.

7th legion and ravager are also a problem. They give as much damage as spell strat. Ss is light 7th and ravager are heavy. Ya there not exactly the same, theyre harder to proc. Still tho, when the effect is active they have spell strat dmg in heavy with heavy resistances. They need to be either toned down or made medium

Or just play none CP PvP. This issue does not exist there.

again, it does exist in cp, and that should be balanced.....

They should get rid of zerglings and then there wouldn't be any issues. If you are wasting time on a tanky then 1) they served their purpose and 2) It shows lack of skill and lack of experience in PvP all together. Tankys just lost a good amount of health and what is going to happen, is people are going to have enough of these whining nerf threads and start pushing for nerfs that will really get rid of the lower tier players all together.

Skilless zerglings are not balanced.

regardless you still need to get them out of your keep, your forced into fighting them.

also, the majority of the time im solo, my pvp guild hasnt been active since before summerset. Why solo and small scale players feel the need that all zergs should go away is dumb. When i am rarely in a zerg. I dont tell small scale that there ruining cyro and get out.

and how are lower tier players suppose to kill a tank if a 8+ experienced players are needed. This is bad for small scale and lower tier players too

"Why solo and small scale players feel the need that all zergs should go away is dumb." Your own words

Sounds like a Zergling to me. What I find dumb is skilless mobs that should have their training wheels taken off so they can be pushed into actually having to fight then leach AP. If people want to play in large groups they should reduce the AP percentages by each player over a certain number. If you were truly a solo player you wouldn't of had an issue with the tanky that you are describing.

An a lot of your answers show the lack of experience I was talking about. That is all.

when i did fight in a zerg we didnt mindlessly leach ap, we went toe to toe with 80+ player zergs defending and taking keeps from them. We made our own ap, held the map and kept those 80+ player zergs from running over small scale like a pebble on the road....

and ya i dont see why solo always needs to complain about zergs. I have 0 problem with zergs and i solo. I like them, they actually do something for the map while im fooling around in pvp.

my apologies if they interfere with your 1vx'ing noobs, one person shouldnt be able to rip thru a ton of players unless there trash any more than a tank should take 8+ players to kill.

and sure, if i ever start rolling with a zerg full time again by all means feel free to shut off my ap. I dont pvp for ap anyway, up until tics started following you if your off keep grounds i rarely stuck around for tics anyway. Got a map to defend, no time to wait for ap...

but i your really trying to go with that you might want to start reducing the ap for all those ungrouped "solo" players that follow that zerg around while the zerg actually fights off the other 2 heavy armor enemy zergs

"I have 0 problem with zergs" your words because that is what you are a Zergling.

I am not the one having an issue with tankys. That is an issue for noobs or an inexperienced pvper. Which your statements says about you clearly. You blame the tanky when it is you that is the issue not the tanky. You're just another cryhard asking for nerfs for you and your Zerg, simple. Because the solution is something that even a semi-skilled PvPer knows.

Also, if you can handle 80+ person Zerg, then you wouldn't be crying. But since you are, it sounds like a Zergling tears to me.

Girl_Number8 · March 2019

zyk wrote: »

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Zergling Zergling Zergling Zergling Zergling Zergling Zergling Zergling

Not only is it inane to be overtly elitist in an extremely casual game, your arguments are completely irrelevant because players of all aptitude levels and play styles both like and dislike the tank meta and the things that come with it.

But if you want to be elitist about it, I think the tank meta carries slow players and most players I consider decent do not enjoy the frequency of stalemate builds regardless of how they like to play ESO PVP.

I did not write that and I don't appreciate you changing my words.

The most unbalanced boring thing in Cyro is Zergs. Decent players die like everyone else but we don't come on asking for nerfs, instead we congratulate the person and usually become friends. Though what OP is explaining is lack of experience on his part.

Girl_Number8 · March 2019

Ruckly wrote: »

I see no problem. When 2 raids of 24 fight each other somebody needs to be able to stand in front and take some hits. Otherwise PvP would be Elemental Ring spam. They do die eventually. They can play run-around-the-rock for a few minutes but eventually something as simple as Stampede snare will slow them down enough to be bursted.

So True^

Girl_Number8 · March 2019

Burtan wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Sy1ph5 wrote: »

If it takes you 8 players to kill someone you should ask yourself to questions. 1)why am I in a group with people that are this terrible? 2) why on earth am I intentionally focusing a tank?

1, that tank is still an enemy player and 2, that player still somehow has enough damage to single burst people down if left unchecked. The whole argument about PvP tanks hit like noodles is pure bull today, just last night in Vivec i encountered a dozen blue and yellow players, 2H and S&B builds who go from bursting gankers one bar to unkillable tanks on the other. Two of them together halted an entire siege once. You cant take them down quickly and if you ignore them theyll just start picking you off one by one. There is no tradeoff anymore, people cant use that excuse.

l2P issue, you need a better build.

Good point.

Girl_Number8 · March 2019

Burtan wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

My only problem with tanks like that is when they are able to kill. A guy that can take a castle to the face is not a problem if it they hit like a wet noodle ground based AOEs and DoTs should be the killer of those builds.

Pure tanks cant. Tanky players with the right set combinations can survive a decent amount of damage and still kill some of the 10 people attacking with no buffs up and 10k resists, which is often the case against the typical snipers who only use one button.

Again this comes down to experience vs non experienced and strong gameplay vs poor gameplay.

That is what they want to nerf experienced players or anything they can't kill or kills them *yawn*

zyk · March 2019

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

The most unbalanced boring thing in Cyro is Zergs. Decent players die like everyone else but we don't come on asking for nerfs, instead we congratulate the person and usually become friends. Though what OP is explaining is lack of experience on his part.

What you're describing is a specific subculture that you're part of. It's not only composed of "decent players" nor do all "decent players" feel the same.

The decent players I know are constantly discussing balance issues to the point when they have organized competition, they ban many of the sets that contribute to the tank meta and stalemate builds are not welcome. These rules aren't whimsical and are the product of the same kind of passionate debates you might see here. Among reasonable players, there is always debate. It's only virtue signalling lackeys who think it's black and white.

Further, no reasonable person wants to see nerfs for the sake of nerfs. We all have different experiences that inform our opinions that enable balance discussions. Players of all levels of experience, aptitude and play styles have a range of opinions. Being "against nerfs" wholesale is as dumb as being for them wholesale would be.

You and your buddies might all agree and be certain you're right, but that does not preclude discussion in the forums.

Xsorus · March 2019

ezio45 wrote: »

u22.....

can we seriously look at god tanks and heavy armor dps... this is a massive problem and its killing pvp

you have tanks in pvp that take 8+ ppl to kill, that is so broken it shouldnt need a discussion. Seriously, in what other game would needing a small zerg of players to kill one person be considered ok? I can see an argument for 2-3 players needing to focus down a pure pvp tank build but 8+ is ridiculous. Personal suggestion, add resistance to battle spirit, cut it by 50%. Damage, heals, shields are all cut in half by battle spirit i see no reason why resistance shouldnt be. Maybe its overkill, reduced by 25% is maybe enough but hell is theres one thing im ok with seeing you over nerf zos, its heavy armor.

7th legion and ravager are also a problem. They give as much damage as spell strat. Ss is light 7th and ravager are heavy. Ya there not exactly the same, theyre harder to proc. Still tho, when the effect is active they have spell strat dmg in heavy with heavy resistances. They need to be either toned down or made medium

Clearly you never met a Blackguard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS7Y7T3thD4

technohic · March 2019

Copied from another thread where I posted this after a screenshot I had of being hit by weak attacks from a zerg where they all tank up. Hadn't even thought of myself as a tank with high damage until this. Feel like its relevant here.

technohic wrote: »

Liww wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Liww wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

There was an army but check out the ranks.

so you are a tank?

Not really. Was in medium 5-1-1. Full disclose, I was probably near resist cap with rune and Bloodspawn proc. It was just a zerg all stacked in health.

your and their stats are both made possible by broken pve game design. nothing do to with the players.

The real problem in the room is not really them hitting like wet noodles and having high hp pool but rather you as a 'dps' or not-hp-tank reaching rediculous dmg reductions whilst still hitting like a truck. That's broken design, not 5-so ppl with 40k hp hitting you for damage you can out vigor.

Nothing really in there that shows my damage. I run 1 damage set, 1 sustain set, and 1 defense set, and invest in some protection trait. I give up some offense to make medium useable with lag and high possibility of getting caught by a zerg.

Its contrasted drastically when looking at this toon and then my NB who focuses all on offense because I can roll dodge into a cloak. With the NB, l then am invested more on damage and penetration. It can hit a lot harder and survive easier so long as I dont go fighting in a keep like that which my other characters are more built for better dealing with.

There's been increasing complaints about people tanking up and still doing damage but as they keep nerfing maybe things that make my first character which is in the screenshot you assume is like that(stamplar now running magicka and similar setup now on my stamsorc) it only makes my NB more attractive outside of large fights and encourages full out health tanks in zergs from my screen shot. We already are far enough that way

ezio45 · March 2019

zyk wrote: »

To people who blow off troll tanks as useless players you can ignore, you're wrong. This is only true if you don't care about objectives and constantly just pick fights that favor you.

When you play according to objectives, you have to deal with whatever shows up. Troll tanks may not be able to burst anyone down, but they often have other benefits to those around in the form of buffs and debuffs, they rez, they siege and must be forcefully removed from flags.

I personally think stalemate builds should not be possible in a PVP game. I think the only reason they exist in ESO PVP is because of the issues ZOS has balancing PVE and PVP together.

^^^

Burtan · March 2019

zyk wrote: »

To people who blow off troll tanks as useless players you can ignore, you're wrong. This is only true if you don't care about objectives and constantly just pick fights that favor you.

When you play according to objectives, you have to deal with whatever shows up. Troll tanks may not be able to burst anyone down, but they often have other benefits to those around in the form of buffs and debuffs, they rez, they siege and must be forcefully removed from flags.

I personally think stalemate builds should not be possible in a PVP game. I think the only reason they exist in ESO PVP is because of the issues ZOS has balancing PVE and PVP together.

Siege them back, use some dps to kill them or even get some so called 'troll tanks' of your own.

Nobody can build to be completely immortal, only very hard to kill for players of low experience and skill. This once again is a L2P issue. Help your group get better and deal some real damage instead of crying for everything to be made easier for you.

zyk · March 2019

Burtan wrote: »

Nobody can build to be completely immortal, only very hard to kill for players of low experience and skill. This once again is a L2P issue. Help your group get better and deal some real damage instead of crying for everything to be made easier for you.

It's not an L2P issue because I know how to handle troll tanks. What I've explained is that I do not like the gameplay associated with them. However, I don't think they're an issue that needs to be directly addressed. They are part of a larger problem. Like many players, I don't enjoy the tank meta. I think it's slow and boring.

Burtan · March 2019

zyk wrote: »

Burtan wrote: »

Nobody can build to be completely immortal, only very hard to kill for players of low experience and skill. This once again is a L2P issue. Help your group get better and deal some real damage instead of crying for everything to be made easier for you.

It's not an L2P issue because I know how to handle troll tanks. What I've explained is that I do not like the gameplay associated with them. However, I don't think they're an issue that needs to be directly addressed. They are part of a larger problem. Like many players, I don't enjoy the tank meta. I think it's slow and boring.

On that I can agree, but I dont think people will stop building tanky until snares and movement are addressed across the board, especially in the cases of magicka specs with no real access to mobility tools or snare immunity.

david_m_18b16_ESO · March 2019

Just ignor them. Why would you spend your time killing someone that deal no damage ? I know they usualy also bring utility but still, kill his teamate first then go for him. And yes many other MMO have such class and the problem is always those who for some reason don't want to ignor them.

Lab3360 · March 2019

Another Nerf thread. Can we stop crying about tanks already. Its not suppose to be easy.

Pvp is so full of people crying about everything when the tools are right there to use.

L2p. Get Good.

Sir_Xalvador · March 2019

ezio45 wrote: »

u22.....

can we seriously look at god tanks and heavy armor dps... this is a massive problem and its killing pvp

you have tanks in pvp that take 8+ ppl to kill, that is so broken it shouldnt need a discussion. Seriously, in what other game would needing a small zerg of players to kill one person be considered ok? I can see an argument for 2-3 players needing to focus down a pure pvp tank build but 8+ is ridiculous. Personal suggestion, add resistance to battle spirit, cut it by 50%. Damage, heals, shields are all cut in half by battle spirit i see no reason why resistance shouldnt be. Maybe its overkill, reduced by 25% is maybe enough but hell is theres one thing im ok with seeing you over nerf zos, its heavy armor.

7th legion and ravager are also a problem. They give as much damage as spell strat. Ss is light 7th and ravager are heavy. Ya there not exactly the same, theyre harder to proc. Still tho, when the effect is active they have spell strat dmg in heavy with heavy resistances. They need to be either toned down or made medium

So your complaint is a tank in heavy armor (god tank) but never said anything about a healer in heavy armor that can survive cuz of the armor and do a great deal of dps so not only can they survive but they can kill you and heal themselves at the same time so omg no god tanks but the GOD healer is ok my suggestion move to non cp campaign or learn how to kill the god tank

bardx86 · March 2019

Malamar1229 wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

u22.....

can we seriously look at god tanks and heavy armor dps... this is a massive problem and its killing pvp

you have tanks in pvp that take 8+ ppl to kill, that is so broken it shouldnt need a discussion. Seriously, in what other game would needing a small zerg of players to kill one person be considered ok? I can see an argument for 2-3 players needing to focus down a pure pvp tank build but 8+ is ridiculous. Personal suggestion, add resistance to battle spirit, cut it by 50%. Damage, heals, shields are all cut in half by battle spirit i see no reason why resistance shouldnt be. Maybe its overkill, reduced by 25% is maybe enough but hell is theres one thing im ok with seeing you over nerf zos, its heavy armor.

7th legion and ravager are also a problem. They give as much damage as spell strat. Ss is light 7th and ravager are heavy. Ya there not exactly the same, theyre harder to proc. Still tho, when the effect is active they have spell strat dmg in heavy with heavy resistances. They need to be either toned down or made medium

its only broken if someone tanking 8+ ppl is capable of dps to kill them all. there should variety in playstyles and builds...the object shouldn't be that you can kill every one in a 1v1 situation. balance means someone build for heavy tanking shouldn't have heavy dps either, and full glass canon shouldn't be tanky.

I agree with you to a point. If I build for glass cannon I should be able to kill that heavy armor person myself without help and he me as my defense is low. This isn't the case, It's not possible to build a glass cannon and kill a heavy. Thats not balanced.

Burtan · March 2019

bardx86 wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

u22.....

can we seriously look at god tanks and heavy armor dps... this is a massive problem and its killing pvp

you have tanks in pvp that take 8+ ppl to kill, that is so broken it shouldnt need a discussion. Seriously, in what other game would needing a small zerg of players to kill one person be considered ok? I can see an argument for 2-3 players needing to focus down a pure pvp tank build but 8+ is ridiculous. Personal suggestion, add resistance to battle spirit, cut it by 50%. Damage, heals, shields are all cut in half by battle spirit i see no reason why resistance shouldnt be. Maybe its overkill, reduced by 25% is maybe enough but hell is theres one thing im ok with seeing you over nerf zos, its heavy armor.

7th legion and ravager are also a problem. They give as much damage as spell strat. Ss is light 7th and ravager are heavy. Ya there not exactly the same, theyre harder to proc. Still tho, when the effect is active they have spell strat dmg in heavy with heavy resistances. They need to be either toned down or made medium

its only broken if someone tanking 8+ ppl is capable of dps to kill them all. there should variety in playstyles and builds...the object shouldn't be that you can kill every one in a 1v1 situation. balance means someone build for heavy tanking shouldn't have heavy dps either, and full glass canon shouldn't be tanky.

I agree with you to a point. If I build for glass cannon I should be able to kill that heavy armor person myself without help and he me as my defense is low. This isn't the case, It's not possible to build a glass cannon and kill a heavy. Thats not balanced.

Yes, it is. Sadly most players just dont understand that this cant be done with plague doctor and seducer. Its also just a bad idea to not build for survival as you will be the one getting nuked because you have given that tank player all the dmg they need by not investing into survival.

What makes ESO PvP so unique is the fact that you have huge amounts of gear combinations available to be fully self sufficient and fill all 3 player roles to some extent, its something every player should take advantage of outside of very organised group settings.

If you haven't done this, prepare to lose.

Ace_SiN · March 2019

I've seen "god tanks" 1vZerg a bunch of newbs and post the results on their youtube channel. These same guys will enter a tournament and get dropped in a 1v1 by a stamblade. The difference? Skill and an understanding of their build. ESO has a uniquely unforgiving combat system that requires you to understand how and when to burst your opponent if they are built properly (and simply copy/pasting the sets of top tier players won't help you win fights). You're not going to press 1 2 3 and slowly wear down your opponent unless they are terrible with stat management or just don't know what they're doing. This massive skill gap has notoriously left many people in Cyrodiil to feel weak and with the notion that someone is impossible to kill (SypherPK, KingRichard, LeftyLucy, Gottbeard, and many others of ESO's past). The true "unkillable" tanks that are out there have invested so much into defensive prowess that they shouldn't be a threat to you.

ezio45 · March 2019

Sir_Xalvador wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

u22.....

can we seriously look at god tanks and heavy armor dps... this is a massive problem and its killing pvp

you have tanks in pvp that take 8+ ppl to kill, that is so broken it shouldnt need a discussion. Seriously, in what other game would needing a small zerg of players to kill one person be considered ok? I can see an argument for 2-3 players needing to focus down a pure pvp tank build but 8+ is ridiculous. Personal suggestion, add resistance to battle spirit, cut it by 50%. Damage, heals, shields are all cut in half by battle spirit i see no reason why resistance shouldnt be. Maybe its overkill, reduced by 25% is maybe enough but hell is theres one thing im ok with seeing you over nerf zos, its heavy armor.

7th legion and ravager are also a problem. They give as much damage as spell strat. Ss is light 7th and ravager are heavy. Ya there not exactly the same, theyre harder to proc. Still tho, when the effect is active they have spell strat dmg in heavy with heavy resistances. They need to be either toned down or made medium

So your complaint is a tank in heavy armor (god tank) but never said anything about a healer in heavy armor that can survive cuz of the armor and do a great deal of dps so not only can they survive but they can kill you and heal themselves at the same time so omg no god tanks but the GOD healer is ok my suggestion move to non cp campaign or learn how to kill the god tank

no i dont have a problem with heavy healers.

im talking about takes in specific tanking sets in pvp

Kuramas9tails · March 2019

Everyone should be tanks in PVP.

It would be siege vs siege at that point.

Sounds balanced.

SilverPaws · March 2019

Funny how so many people have no idea what are they talking about

Jeremy · March 2019

hyraak wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

u22.....

can we seriously look at god tanks and heavy armor dps... this is a massive problem and its killing pvp

you have tanks in pvp that take 8+ ppl to kill, that is so broken it shouldnt need a discussion. Seriously, in what other game would needing a small zerg of players to kill one person be considered ok? I can see an argument for 2-3 players needing to focus down a pure pvp tank build but 8+ is ridiculous. Personal suggestion, add resistance to battle spirit, cut it by 50%. Damage, heals, shields are all cut in half by battle spirit i see no reason why resistance shouldnt be. Maybe its overkill, reduced by 25% is maybe enough but hell is theres one thing im ok with seeing you over nerf zos, its heavy armor.

7th legion and ravager are also a problem. They give as much damage as spell strat. Ss is light 7th and ravager are heavy. Ya there not exactly the same, theyre harder to proc. Still tho, when the effect is active they have spell strat dmg in heavy with heavy resistances. They need to be either toned down or made medium

Or just play none CP PvP. This issue does not exist there.

again, it does exist in cp, and that should be balanced.....

No. It doesn't exist in None CP PvP. I have never seen it once - not ever. So if 8 players are having problems killing someone in heavy armor in none CP PVP the problem is on the damage-dealing end or there is something else at play.

If I were you I would also just give up your dream of a so-called "balanced" PvP system. it's never happened and never is going to happen.

So again: if this bothers you enough to warrant a thread about it why not just opt for none-CP PvP? it's not balanced either. But you don't have to worry about these builds that are bothering you so much there at least. That's the better solution here instead of once again nerfing a build another player likely put a lot of work into making.

Herein lies the issue with the community and the game.

First off, the game is imbalanced. Which may sound like a bad thing, and quite often it is, but if the game were to be completely balanced the sense of distinction between classes would only fall to the animations of class specific skills.

Secondly, the response to go play non-cp is counter intuitive to your reply of "don't nerf a build someone put a lot of time into" simply due to the fact that Champion points have been a central part of the game since it's creation. People also put a lot of time into obtaining their CP rank so why take away that sense of progression by being forced to play in a campaign (or Battleground) that doesn't allow the use of CP?

Finally, yes there are tanks in pvp. However, there are generally two types of tanks, the ones that can tank a zerg and the ones who can tank anywhere from 1-5 players while still being able to dish out punishing damage. The latter is the problem. You can avoid a strict tank, but the other will pursue the fight because they know they have damage behind their tankability. I agree something needs to be done with the tank meta (specifically proc sets like Fury and Seventh Legion).

Few things.

CP has not been central to the game since it's creation. It was added later. And if the builds people are going to create using CP bothers you (as it does in the case of the OP) then obviously opting to go for non-CP PvP would be a better choice instead of expecting every build people can come up with using CP that annoys them to be nerfed. That's good advice as far as I'm concerned and certainly doesn't represent what is wrong with the community. Calling for everything that prevents them from killing somebody to be "nerfed" is a far greater threat to "the community" then the simple and common sense advice I gave that poster.

Also: the OP has already admitted he is talking about pure tanks who - in his words - are there to just "annoy" him (which translated means he can't kill them). He was not talking about tanks who can also do "punishing damage". So your response to my comment is not in context.

I've also never encountered one of these invincible tanks who can dish out tons of damage. So if they exist in none CP PvP they are rare unicorn indeed. So I'll give you the same advice i gave that other poster. If this is bugging you so much - then simply do none-CP PvP. ^^ It's what I do.

Jeremy · March 2019

bardx86 wrote: »

Malamar1229 wrote: »

ezio45 wrote: »

u22.....

can we seriously look at god tanks and heavy armor dps... this is a massive problem and its killing pvp

you have tanks in pvp that take 8+ ppl to kill, that is so broken it shouldnt need a discussion. Seriously, in what other game would needing a small zerg of players to kill one person be considered ok? I can see an argument for 2-3 players needing to focus down a pure pvp tank build but 8+ is ridiculous. Personal suggestion, add resistance to battle spirit, cut it by 50%. Damage, heals, shields are all cut in half by battle spirit i see no reason why resistance shouldnt be. Maybe its overkill, reduced by 25% is maybe enough but hell is theres one thing im ok with seeing you over nerf zos, its heavy armor.

7th legion and ravager are also a problem. They give as much damage as spell strat. Ss is light 7th and ravager are heavy. Ya there not exactly the same, theyre harder to proc. Still tho, when the effect is active they have spell strat dmg in heavy with heavy resistances. They need to be either toned down or made medium

its only broken if someone tanking 8+ ppl is capable of dps to kill them all. there should variety in playstyles and builds...the object shouldn't be that you can kill every one in a 1v1 situation. balance means someone build for heavy tanking shouldn't have heavy dps either, and full glass canon shouldn't be tanky.

I agree with you to a point. If I build for glass cannon I should be able to kill that heavy armor person myself without help and he me as my defense is low. This isn't the case, It's not possible to build a glass cannon and kill a heavy. Thats not balanced.

NO you shouldn't.

There is no point in creating a defensive build if anyone who is built for pure offense can just walk up to them and kill them.

Defensive builds have to be able to counter offensive builds by staying alive - otherwise there is no point in creating them in the first place and everyone should just build a DD at that point.

I would agree with the notion that defensive builds should have to sacrifice their offense. But that's not really what we are talking about here if you read carefully what the OP is saying.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · March 2019

Seriously, don't y'all think ditching "Battle Spirit" would be a good start?