Kadoin wrote: »

Ruckly wrote: »

1. As far as tanky healer groups go defile won't do much for you anyways since it will be cleansed.

2. Unless you make the group move with their expedition buff then knock some one out of the group and immobilize while the group is still moving then focus fire and kill them.

3. And once their numbers are down a few and some redundancy is lost you bomb/siege them.

Tanky healing ball groups are never affected by the changes to heals or defile because they can just stack more of it. If tanking heal groups are a problem, then its either a sign that the measures against them aren't well-implemented, healing proc sets are out of control and/or should be reviewed, or the players complaining were simply outclassed.

If you ask me, healing isn't even that powerful and is actually behind damage (but no buff or nerf to either are needed). It's only strong when combined with proc sets and other defenses. I can honestly say defile made little to no difference before or after the changes in every patch to my healer. That's not because heals are powerful, but because a simple roll or blocking can also increase the overall effectiveness of anyone healing. CC spam (timestop, petrify, bombard, etc.) works better at killing me than anything else on my mag templar.

I honestly heal less than ever with honor the dead, with only 16K crit healing, and on a super-offensive build tilting towards healing and ignoring sustain only 32K max. To put that in perspective, in One Tamriel with a lesser build configuration I had 45-49K crit heal AND I had around 4K mag regen (in blue gear ). Those days are gone and to get a high heal, you have to become glass and forego sustain. No one wants to do that, and so they actually move towards more defensive builds that require LESS healing, yet somehow healing needs a nerf? No, the defensive builds need a nerf otherwise you nerf healing and everyone will be running ultra defensive builds that need less healing + proc sets that heal and don't require any stat investment (if they aren't smart enough to be doing so right now).

Another thing is that these builds only rose to prominence because of nerfs. ZOS nerfed sustain so you have to cut your damage in PvP to compensate one way or another, or use proc sets that do damage BUT don't do enough sustained damage to put any real pressure on players that aren't standing and doing nothing. Strangely enough, this phenomena is only observed in CP PvP where you get more resources, better crit heals, better healing modifiers, better crit rate, and better defense.

Yet time and time again, somehow templar is the problem. I can tell you I have better healing on my DK, better sustain on my hybrid NB healer (better to survive on too), better healing + offense on mag warden. The only advantage templar honestly gives me are ritual and rememberance, and even then its not worth the loss of stam sustain that is possible on DK and NB when you get focused IMO. The lack of an AoE healing ult makes little to no difference on non-Templar healers in PvP, esp. the larger the group gets. If templar got nerfed tommorow, I would just move to my DK or NB and accomplish the same exact thing. In fact, I already use my DK healer more in BGs...

Also, I still use light armor on all of my chars that take up healing in Cyrodil.

CyrusArya wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

I'll say this much.
Templars are inherently more tanky. These days, it feels like tanks can dish out almost as much damage as damage-oriented builds. Of course, it's not 100% on par, but 85% - and that is enough if the weak damage build is distracted for a second. Whereas the other way around, tanky builds can easily afford a mistake or two without consequences. The scales aren't tipped right, and that is what Templars benefit from.

As a whole, the Dragonknight and Warden class are both significantly tankier than Templar. And again, I know this isn’t directed towards Stamplar, i.e the stam spec with the weakest healing of them all. So I’ll reiterate when it comes to Magplar that if you actually build to have damage, you won’t be exceptionally tanky and vice versa. Magplar “tankiness” is an illusion. Being able to bounce back constantly to full looks very hardy on the surface until you realize how one dimensional, binary, and completely reactive the class’ defensive design is. Which isn’t an issue if you’re a tanky heal bot, but isnt very forgiving at all if you’re a light armor damage spec.

So no, Templar doesn’t benefit from the dynamic you describe. Basically no Light/Medium Armor damage spec does. You know what does abuse disproportionate amounts of damage relative to their tankiness? Heavy armor stam builds, as they have for years. Magplar, and no magicka class, is in the same ball park when it comes to this regard as heavy stam.

MuckyBums wrote: »

Then they are crap Templars. The Templars I know. Are godmode. You must know rubbish ones.

Minno wrote: »

Ruckly wrote: »

This was a good thread. It is fake news like everything in the general forum but with some good factual debate between intelligent people. Should have a racial passives as it relates to cyrodill debate thread and get something worth reading. The additive thing they are pushing vs. the multiplicative coefficient thing we have now is crap. With free floating numbers racials' will be subject to change at any whim in the foreseeable future. And because of spreadsheet warriors vs. Extra-Linear Dynamics they most likely will be changed in the future. The"...Cantorian continuum of infinities of possible move and response..." that goes unrecognized.

We will but it will happen on pts section monday.
We shouldn't clog normal forums until the items reach live.

But we will have those discussions.

Solariken wrote: »

I recently said this in another thread, but IMO there are really only two things that take magplar into the realm of OP, which are Undeath and Mist Form.

The only natural counter to magplar I see is to limit their mobility and kill them through attrition (aka make them block-heal until they run out of stamina/magicka). Vampirism covers this weakness better on magplar than any other class. It allows reposition to LOS with a window of free stamina regen (and mag regen via CFocus and HtD proc) for almost infinite block-casting heals.

It really is easy mode for anyone with a brain and I think is the root of this cockroachy magplar resurgence.