Where's the intimacy of combat? The tactics and personal strategy?

Negative39 · April 2014

Hi there,

The grand scale of PvP is ESOL is commendable but where's the intimacy?

These huge battles are a grand mess from my limited experience, yes strategy is needed to attack and defend en-masse but what about on a personal level? These huge battles do not allow you to plan attacks on a personal level or gauge yourself against others. There's little or no satisfaction to be had by charging into a sea of bodies, desperately trying to land a hit with enemies being dragged all over the screen by abilities. It's too much, it's overload. There's barely enough time to use any abilities.

Why not have a say 12 v 12 tournament pvp match you can queue for in Cyrodil in smaller, contained instanced battlefields? This would allow for players to really see how they stack up against other players. Set the backstory as a kind of neutral meeting ground where 'champions' from each alliance can meet as test their metal thus keeping dialogue open between the alliances open in efforts to find peace (I know we don't want peace but it's just back-story). Only in this sort of PVP can you get any real PERSONAL satisfaction and develop a PERSONAL strategy.

It's such a shame, I love PvP but I love the personal challenge of outthinking, out-specing and out-playing another guy. There is none of that to be had in this game from what I can tell so far.

I commend the game for its grand vision but something is lost in the grandness!

Cheers.

rotiferuk · April 2014

Please, no arenas ,duelling or mounts other than horses.

Hellbane · April 2014

PVP is what you make of it. I don't know if I'm allowed to mention another online game I play which features shiny spaceships but they are similar in certain aspects when it comes to large scale pvp.

I see these large battles as the huge fleet operations which I've been apart of. Generally listening to one guy in charge and following his orders and hoping your swarm of players is bigger than the opposing swarm. It can be a lot of fun but as you say the bigger a group gets the harder it is to organise tactical deployments unless the group is of the same guild and not a random pickup.

If you find the large scale combat tedious why not form your own group of 5 or so players. You could ambush popular roads, pick the enemy off a few at a time as they travel back to their group. It all helps the cause. Maybe go ranged spec and ambush people from above which could be fun, it's happened to me.

phjillee · April 2014

I could see an arena being added to the game, since there was one in Oblivion. That would have been pretty cool actually.

LadyChaos · April 2014

phjillee wrote: »

I could see an arena being added to the game, since there was one in Oblivion. That would have been pretty cool actually.

agree be cool .. but think should be an expansion or DLC release because it takes time for RvR to normalize and don't need other PvP competition till its balanced IMO.

Samadhi · April 2014

Negative39 wrote: »

...
These huge battles are a grand mess from my limited experience, yes strategy is needed to attack and defend en-masse but what about on a personal level? These huge battles do not allow you to plan attacks on a personal level or gauge yourself against others. There's little or no satisfaction to be had by charging into a sea of bodies, desperately trying to land a hit with enemies being dragged all over the screen by abilities. It's too much, it's overload. There's barely enough time to use any abilities.
...

I used to feel similar to this in the earlier beta tests, until I got more used to my character and skill set up and how it differs from other MMOs.
Now I make a point of hunting specific targets while in a large group; I use my CC skills to lock down people and save my teammates, or to pick off important targets for my group to swarm.
Sometimes I will charge an enemy group to finish a kill on someone who escaped into the ranks, then stealth back out to my own teammates.
In Keep defense against sieges, I am usually one of the first of my alliance to jump off the wall and stealth down to kill the enemies and burn the siege engines at the edge of the attacking siege.

The Tab targetting box to follow a specific player's movements is an Aedra-send.

Negative39 wrote: »

...
Why not have a say 12 v 12 tournament pvp match...Only in this sort of PVP can you get any real PERSONAL satisfaction and develop a PERSONAL strategy.
...

I must respectfully disagree that one specific kind of PvP is the "only" source of developing personal skill and strategy -- if a person is skilled in terms of developing his or her personal strategy there is a wealth of lessons to be taken from all forms of PvP.

Smaller group skirmishes exist all around the map, away from the main zerg swarm paths, and they are great fun. I do not find that the zerg v. zerg detracts from them though, just that following the zerg keeps me from encountering them. That is a personal decision I have to make about where I wish to help my alliance's efforts.

Personal strategy and focus do still exist in the mass PvP, so long as I make the effort to execute them.

chrisub17_ESO104 · April 2014

Most of the pvp guilds who will bring strategy and tactics to the battles, are leveling up right now. Within a month, pvp will change drastically as those guilds hit level cap, get geared, and go out in force.

wOOOOt_of_SD · April 2014

Just wait and learn the many facettes of the PVP in Cyradiil.
There are lots of close skill depending pvp if you know how to find it!
Search between the keeps, where people travel in smaller groups.

Laura · April 2014

I find lots of personal battles doing quests and finding nodes.

I wouldn't mind arenas though. It is AFTER ALL an elder scrolls tradition. (minus skyrim which while extremely good was a watered down ES game)

please note the chick in what is, obviously, end game armor.

GuinevereDeNoir · April 2014

There is the opportunity for personal strategy and intimacy, for example in the quests that can be taken at the entry gates in Cyrodiil. Have you tried solo scout or group warfront quests? These quests encourage you to infiltrate behind the enemy lines alone as a scout, or to create a small group and retake a lumbermill or farm. Sneaking and infiltrating is just as exciting as huge battles. Also it requires personal strategy to do side quests in Cyrodiil and visit towns like Bruma, for example. Side questing is good opportunity to bump into a solo enemy player.

But I agree, huge battles are not about personal strategies. But I accept it. It's quite like in RL - survive or die, you are just a number in war statistics.

Vodkaphile · April 2014

There WILL be arenas. The demand for them is large, they fit in the ES lore and give a nice outlet for quick and easy PvP skirmishes. I think dueling will end up being in an arena setting also.

On topic, Cyrodiil is what you make of it. If you join the big zerg, you'll end up... in a big zerg. If you do what my friends and I do, which is hold strategic roads and fields to block the advancement of reinforcements, perform guerrilla warfare, harass the back lines of an attack with range and pick off stragglers, then the game opens up immensely and you're still providing a valuable service to your team.