Speed in BGs

Minno · August 2018

HankTwo wrote: »

Imo, swift was a bad addition to the game, because it further enhanced builds that already had 100% possible uptime on snare immunity and major expedition. It would be better if swift would reduce the effect of snares applied to you or increase sprint speed instead.

they had that via CP. No one used it because it was a percentage of a small duration lol. Why waste 800+ stamina or triune or 25% extra dmg to low health for 10% reduction on a 4 second duration? (would be 3.6% duration with 1 swift).

The speed is fine as is. Problem is forward momentum giving 8 seconds of immunity for cheap cost when shuffle only gives 2-3 seconds for a high cost. It should be flipped so heavy armor cant have the speed mobility of medium armor.

HankTwo · August 2018

Minno wrote: »

HankTwo wrote: »

Imo, swift was a bad addition to the game, because it further enhanced builds that already had 100% possible uptime on snare immunity and major expedition. It would be better if swift would reduce the effect of snares applied to you or increase sprint speed instead.

they had that via CP. No one used it because it was a percentage of a small duration lol. Why waste 800+ stamina or triune or 25% extra dmg to low health for 10% reduction on a 4 second duration? (would be 3.6% duration with 1 swift).

The speed is fine as is. Problem is forward momentum giving 8 seconds of immunity for cheap cost when shuffle only gives 2-3 seconds for a high cost. It should be flipped so heavy armor cant have the speed mobility of medium armor.

I mean a reduction of the snare effect. Something like 25% sounds about right to me. That way with 3 swift traits a 60% snare would only reduce your movement speed by 15%. This would help magicka classes with no access to snare immunities.

The problem I see with swift is that unless you run it yourself it is pretty much impossible to be on the offensive against a speed build that utilizes swift together with expedition buffs and forward momentum in an effective manner. They sometimes run so fast that even my gap closer does no damage to them.

After thinking about it the last couple of days, the general design of snares and speed buffs seems pretty weird to me. Wouldn't it make more sense to have both major expedition and snare immunities class restricted? That way you could have classes that can buff their speed but are vulnerable to snares, while other classes have low mobility in general but are not further slowed down by snares because of immunity skills. At the moment the obvious counters to speed builds, snares and roots, are useless against them because of their immunity (usually from forward momentum).

Baconlad · August 2018

I've been stating since BG launch...although not on forums I don't think, speed needs to be capped at base run, no sprinting or anything else while you have the relic/ chaosball.

As for mag builds and sprint, dude...use race against time, with three swift you'll be blazing fast and only hit about half stamina by the time your back. Slot introspection and you channel it for two seconds and ur back to full...

Try not to die! XD

Galarthor · August 2018

Hutch679 wrote: »

Lol! I can smell the salt. Swift jewelry should remain how it is. Actually, mag sorcs should have their shields scale off max health instead of magicka. Then we can talk about balance. You get three shields to survive that scale off the same stat that increases your damage. Swift jewelry means they are giving up damage to be fast.... this thread is a joke lmao salty sorc coming to complain about the stam builds in bgs lol

You are as short-sighted as you are ignorant. Do you really think it's a good idea to have heavy armor high HP tanks run around with large shields? You also obviously have no idea how sorcs use shields. You read somewhere on the forums that sorcs have 3 shields and now assume sorcs run around with 100% uptime on all 3 shields. Usually only 1 shield is used. And even if multiple shields are applied the first will be gone by the time the second is applied which means you might as well reapply the first one ... especially since Hardened Ward is cheaper and more powerful. Even if a little bit of shielding remains, the benefit of having a second shield up is marginal at best (unless you opponent has no pressure, but in that case you don't need a second shield anyway). The main purpose of Harness Magicka is to get magicka back when fighting magicka builds. Because if they run it and you don't you will have resource problems. If adding shield strength was its main purpose Sorcs would run the other morph ...

The healing ward is only strong when your HP is low. And it does not serve primarily as a shield but as a heal. Sorcs would gladly give up the shielding and have it heal instantly as the healing done depends on the remaining strength of the shield after 6 seconds. And the shields are being depleted in the order they are applied. Which means there is a pretty good chance you will be in execute range the entire 6 sec and don't receive a heal in the end.

And complaining about shield strength is pretty rich, coming from a perma dodger who does not have to make any sacrifices to increase the effectiveness of their main defense tool, as it always mitigates 100%.

"Swift jewelry means they are giving up damage to be fast" and while you fotm rollers only give up damage, magicka builds give up damage and mitigation when they run swift jewelry as their shields and healing is reduced. Dodge and block are however not diminished in their effectiveness. Which means magicka builds pay a higher price.

"this thread is a joke lmao": The only joke about this thread are the salty NBs who want to retain their unfair advantages and try to argue with insults against facts.

"complain about the stam builds in bgs lol": we all know how hard you stam builds got it. Stam builds are the worst of all possible builds and it is only your god-like gaming skills that allows you to kill other builds.

All your comments illustrate how little you understand of the game and indicate that you have a serious L2P problem.

Minno wrote: »

The speed is fine as is. Problem is forward momentum giving 8 seconds of immunity for cheap cost when shuffle only gives 2-3 seconds for a high cost. It should be flipped so heavy armor cant have the speed mobility of medium armor.

I agree, Forward Momentum is definitely the bigger issue. But so is speed. Because not only do stam builds get the immunity, but they also achieve higher speeds or the same speed at lower cost. In addition stambuilds can afford to dodge many of the CC effects that would counteract the high speed , something mag builds cannot.

Baconlad wrote: »

I've been stating since BG launch...although not on forums I don't think, speed needs to be capped at base run, no sprinting or anything else while you have the relic/ chaosball.

This would be the best solution. The only thing that might be acceptable is major expedition as it is available to mag,stam, and health builds equally and does not favor any of them.

Baconlad wrote: »

As for mag builds and sprint, dude...use race against time, with three swift you'll be blazing fast and only hit about half stamina by the time your back. Slot introspection and you channel it for two seconds and ur back to full...

Try not to die! XD

You are still falling short of the stambuilds because it will drain your stamina which means you won't be able to break roots and stuns. Similarly, you can't afford to dodge incoming damage and CCs because you will run out of stamina too quickly. Introspection only really works once you have delivered the objective. It doesnt really make senese to build for speed if you have to stop frequently for some time before you are able to keep running.

All these issues could be circumvented if you increase your stamina pool ... but that would essentially make you a stamina build but not eliminate the problem of stamina-magicka-imbalance.

Hutch679 · August 2018

Galarthor wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

Lol! I can smell the salt. Swift jewelry should remain how it is. Actually, mag sorcs should have their shields scale off max health instead of magicka. Then we can talk about balance. You get three shields to survive that scale off the same stat that increases your damage. Swift jewelry means they are giving up damage to be fast.... this thread is a joke lmao salty sorc coming to complain about the stam builds in bgs lol

You are as short-sighted as you are ignorant. Do you really think it's a good idea to have heavy armor high HP tanks run around with large shields? You also obviously have no idea how sorcs use shields. You read somewhere on the forums that sorcs have 3 shields and now assume sorcs run around with 100% uptime on all 3 shields. Usually only 1 shield is used. And even if multiple shields are applied the first will be gone by the time the second is applied which means you might as well reapply the first one ... especially since Hardened Ward is cheaper and more powerful. Even if a little bit of shielding remains, the benefit of having a second shield up is marginal at best (unless you opponent has no pressure, but in that case you don't need a second shield anyway). The main purpose of Harness Magicka is to get magicka back when fighting magicka builds. Because if they run it and you don't you will have resource problems. If adding shield strength was its main purpose Sorcs would run the other morph ...

The healing ward is only strong when your HP is low. And it does not serve primarily as a shield but as a heal. Sorcs would gladly give up the shielding and have it heal instantly as the healing done depends on the remaining strength of the shield after 6 seconds. And the shields are being depleted in the order they are applied. Which means there is a pretty good chance you will be in execute range the entire 6 sec and don't receive a heal in the end.

And complaining about shield strength is pretty rich, coming from a perma dodger who does not have to make any sacrifices to increase the effectiveness of their main defense tool, as it always mitigates 100%.

"Swift jewelry means they are giving up damage to be fast" and while you fotm rollers only give up damage, magicka builds give up damage and mitigation when they run swift jewelry as their shields and healing is reduced. Dodge and block are however not diminished in their effectiveness. Which means magicka builds pay a higher price.

"this thread is a joke lmao": The only joke about this thread are the salty NBs who want to retain their unfair advantages and try to argue with insults against facts.

"complain about the stam builds in bgs lol": we all know how hard you stam builds got it. Stam builds are the worst of all possible builds and it is only your god-like gaming skills that allows you to kill other builds.

All your comments illustrate how little you understand of the game and indicate that you have a serious L2P problem.

Minno wrote: »

The speed is fine as is. Problem is forward momentum giving 8 seconds of immunity for cheap cost when shuffle only gives 2-3 seconds for a high cost. It should be flipped so heavy armor cant have the speed mobility of medium armor.

I agree, Forward Momentum is definitely the bigger issue. But so is speed. Because not only do stam builds get the immunity, but they also achieve higher speeds or the same speed at lower cost. In addition stambuilds can afford to dodge many of the CC effects that would counteract the high speed , something mag builds cannot.

Baconlad wrote: »

I've been stating since BG launch...although not on forums I don't think, speed needs to be capped at base run, no sprinting or anything else while you have the relic/ chaosball.

This would be the best solution. The only thing that might be acceptable is major expedition as it is available to mag,stam, and health builds equally and does not favor any of them.

Baconlad wrote: »

As for mag builds and sprint, dude...use race against time, with three swift you'll be blazing fast and only hit about half stamina by the time your back. Slot introspection and you channel it for two seconds and ur back to full...

Try not to die! XD

You are still falling short of the stambuilds because it will drain your stamina which means you won't be able to break roots and stuns. Similarly, you can't afford to dodge incoming damage and CCs because you will run out of stamina too quickly. Introspection only really works once you have delivered the objective. It doesnt really make senese to build for speed if you have to stop frequently for some time before you are able to keep running.

All these issues could be circumvented if you increase your stamina pool ... but that would essentially make you a stamina build but not eliminate the problem of stamina-magicka-imbalance.

TL;DR. I have a 2 sorcs. I know how they work. Sorcs have access to 3 shields right? Therefore, sorcs have 3 shields. L2p broooooooooooo

PS. I've never played a nightblade before so you're NB comments are just assumptions.

Minno · August 2018

Baconlad wrote: »

I've been stating since BG launch...although not on forums I don't think, speed needs to be capped at base run, no sprinting or anything else while you have the relic/ chaosball.

As for mag builds and sprint, dude...use race against time, with three swift you'll be blazing fast and only hit about half stamina by the time your back. Slot introspection and you channel it for two seconds and ur back to full...

Try not to die! XD

I like this idea. "grabbingholding the relic now provides the major oil debuff; movement speed reduced by 30%".
Would work similar to how chaos ball rips into your health/healing received to help reduce the impact of tanky builds.

But overall, I wish relic was only one objective in the center that required you to beat out 2 teams to claim/win.

Crixus8000 · August 2018

I tried swift and found it useless as even with increased speed, poisons go through immunity and root/snare me. I die all the time because my forward momentum and immove pots do nothing.

GrigorijMalahevich · August 2018

Play stamina for random BG and play magicka only for death match.

gannicus1389 · August 2018

I actually hate how speed is so strong. specially on stam sorcs running speed jewery. they are paperish, but th ey avoid so much dmg just by moving around while hitting like a truck.

it is specially hard for dyzzing swing builds lol, good luck hitting it on a good player or one who moves so fast.
if t hety at least didnt make the channel canceling as long as you are within range;-(

Baconlad · August 2018

Meditate does not only work after the objective is delivered. Getting hammered while sprinting away? That's fine, ur speed let's you Los.

I've played in BGs with a full glass canon build and zero swift trait. This is recently, about a week ago before I swapped. Slimecraw, soulshine, warmaiden, damage mundus, full divines. This build was to my VERY surprise...extremely effective. I ran meditate and race against time. I could sprint from one end of the map to the other and only be at half stamina...with total 9k stamina. Meditate when im at half for a MEASLY two seconds and bam, back to full.

It's FAR cheaper to sprint on my magplar with this setup than trying to on my stam build. And that was without SWIFT!

I only know what works because I've looked at my skill flaws, my build flaws, and BG mode flaws and how they relate to my builds weaknesses...and built upon them. Race against time and swift are the answers to your gripes. You will be stealing relics and chaosballs like the fastest stam builds out there.

Doesn't change my opinion that they need to Nerf sprint in BGs while carrying somthing. But unless they DO...you have to play with the tools they gave you...the tools I told you about. They work...wonderfully

(By the way my glass build still has enough time to channel meditate for two seconds while in mid combat...not a joke)