Speed in BGs

Galarthor

It is ridiculous at which speeds stamina builds can transport the relics in the BGs. It was already bad prior to the introduction of the Switf jewelry trait, but now ...
And as a nice cherry on top, these stam builds can't be rooted or slowed courtesy of Forward Momentum. And as if that was not already bad enough, they can also dodge the majority of stuns thrown their way. There is literally no stopping these stamina builds once they take off with the relic.

At the same time steak, which is slower and more expensive, is deemed OP to be used while carrying the relic and as such disabled when carrying the relic. And other magicka builds are not even provided with the ability to theoretically achieve any worth mentioning speeds.

The same is by the way true for scrolls in cyrodiil.

Could you please explain to me how that is considered to be balanced?

Thanks

Koolio

You used to be able to have even more speed than is available now. Before swift. They added a cap to speed to help this.

You can also get major minor and 3 swift trait on a magic character and reach the same speeds. Just not while walking as a medium armor user

Zeromaz

Stamina gets 12% increase in speed IF they have 7 medium. Thats a minuscule amount to complain about

Dalsinthus

I agree with you.

Before jewelry crafting and swift were introduced, stamina was already strong for relic running. Pre-Summerset on my stamblade, I will regularly sneak up to a relic, wait for it to be undefended or for the defenders to be distracted, pop a speed potion and easily run the relic back to base. A few dodge rolls and shuffle to escape snares made me very difficult to stop. This was really strong for relic running before but with swift it's just too much.

I haven't see a problem with scroll running and swift. In Cryodiil swift does make stam builds really difficult to target and they can escape easily when pressured.

Seems sort of inevitable that ZoS will have to dial swift back.

Apache_Kid

Honestly i used to think about that in BGs before the swift trait even came around but ever since they added in the crazy long animation to grab the relic that stuff doesn't really matter to me anymore. It's so easy to keep someone from grabbing a relic now. A good defense is imperative in that game mode. Make the runner have to kill your defender to even be able to grab it. Yeah obviously in the heat of battle people will snag it and run off with it at light speed but there are just so many ways to buff speed in this game that the cat might be out of the bag on this one.

Galarthor

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Honestly i used to think about that in BGs before the swift trait even came around but ever since they added in the crazy long animation to grab the relic that stuff doesn't really matter to me anymore. It's so easy to keep someone from grabbing a relic now. A good defense is imperative in that game mode. Make the runner have to kill your defender to even be able to grab it. Yeah obviously in the heat of battle people will snag it and run off with it at light speed but there are just so many ways to buff speed in this game that the cat might be out of the bag on this one.

But the same hinderance is faced by amgicka builds, only that they have a considerably longer way back and can mitigate far less damage and CC, making a successful escape that much more unlikely.

@Koolio try getting these buffs and running & dodging the entire way back to your base. And at the same time use Forward Momentum to be immune to roots and slows. I am pretty sure you will find that impossible to sustain as a magicka build.

Apache_Kid

Galarthor wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Honestly i used to think about that in BGs before the swift trait even came around but ever since they added in the crazy long animation to grab the relic that stuff doesn't really matter to me anymore. It's so easy to keep someone from grabbing a relic now. A good defense is imperative in that game mode. Make the runner have to kill your defender to even be able to grab it. Yeah obviously in the heat of battle people will snag it and run off with it at light speed but there are just so many ways to buff speed in this game that the cat might be out of the bag on this one.

But the same hinderance is faced by amgicka builds, only that they have a considerably longer way back and can mitigate far less damage and CC, making a successful escape that much more unlikely.

@Koolio try getting these buffs and running & dodging the entire way back to your base. And at the same time use Forward Momentum to be immune to roots and slows. I am pretty sure you will find that impossible to sustain as a magicka build.

I mean, yeah my stamina nightblade is going to be really good at running relics. My magicka templar will be really good at holding their ground on a flag in land-grab and fighting for the objective while my squishy stamblade would not be. Different builds excel at different things. I think that is a good thing.

Beardimus

It's annoying, especially considering you can out run streak with a speed pot.

Being fair, sorc can use Boundless. Most clases do have access to major exped. But I still get your point.

Also bugs me in general magika toons need stam for cc break this making us all hybrids in pvp

Galarthor

Well your stamina can be both tanky and sprint a lot at high speeds.

But Major Expedition is not the sole issue here. It's major + sprinting + immunity to stun/root/slow + better synergy with switf jewelry

Anethum

pff, full swift jewellery = - 3+k of stamina or 315+ weapon damage.
That's huge...
It's definitely harder for such player to kill opponents who will interrapt him to get it...easy...
I'm sure it's fair that u sacrifice something to get sometihng instead

Gilvoth

Zenimax,
right now moving in sneak allready is like trying to crawl in Mud, i hate it. it is sooo slow and weak.
p[lease allow the rest of eso pvp and pve areas to have high fast speeds but only apply your nerf to the battlegrounds areas.
please, i beg of you.


zenimax, please just only nerf speeds in the battle grounds.
so the rest of eso in cryodiil pvp and pve areas are not destroyed.

Minno

The secret to relic defense, is to stick around and bash/interrupt them.

Good pvp'ers don't let friends PVD without a challenge lol.

Galarthor

Minno wrote: »

The secret to relic defense, is to stick around and bash/interrupt them.

Good pvp'ers don't let friends PVD without a challenge lol.

Yeah no kidding. But that's true regardless of whether you stamina or magicka based. This thread is about the imbalance between the classes if said defense failed. Or when carrying the scroll in cyro.

Anethum

Galarthor wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

The secret to relic defense, is to stick around and bash/interrupt them.

Good pvp'ers don't let friends PVD without a challenge lol.

Yeah no kidding. But that's true regardless of whether you stamina or magicka based. This thread is about the imbalance between the classes if said defense failed. Or when carrying the scroll in cyro.

pff, u can cc and burst such players, spam gap closers or get the same speed, or to def relics better. this high speed is not so "very best" as u imagine

Minno

Galarthor wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

The secret to relic defense, is to stick around and bash/interrupt them.

Good pvp'ers don't let friends PVD without a challenge lol.

Yeah no kidding. But that's true regardless of whether you stamina or magicka based. This thread is about the imbalance between the classes if said defense failed. Or when carrying the scroll in cyro.

Stampede is in a way a nice spell. 60% snare and makes you travel.

3 swift is 30% on yellow (24% on purple).
anything 30% or higher completely voids swift. But unless you defend before the relic grab, nothing will save you.

Always have 1 person defending and keep an eye out for that teammates health bar (if it does down, then you know the enemy is on the relic).

Hutch679

Galarthor wrote: »

It is ridiculous at which speeds stamina builds can transport the relics in the BGs. It was already bad prior to the introduction of the Switf jewelry trait, but now ...
And as a nice cherry on top, these stam builds can't be rooted or slowed courtesy of Forward Momentum. And as if that was not already bad enough, they can also dodge the majority of stuns thrown their way. There is literally no stopping these stamina builds once they take off with the relic.

At the same time steak, which is slower and more expensive, is deemed OP to be used while carrying the relic and as such disabled when carrying the relic. And other magicka builds are not even provided with the ability to theoretically achieve any worth mentioning speeds.

The same is by the way true for scrolls in cyrodiil.

Could you please explain to me how that is considered to be balanced?

Thanks

Have you heard of immovable speed pots? Streak would be superrrrr OP. Mag classes can still build speed due to swift jewelry. Sorcs have access to expedition buffs. Everyone can use speed pots... I think this is a knowledge issue. You dont play a speed buff style, so you think no one else should be able to. That's what I'm reading from your post.

Hutch679

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

Zenimax,
right now moving in sneak allready is like trying to crawl in Mud, i hate it. it is sooo slow and weak.
p[lease allow the rest of eso pvp and pve areas to have high fast speeds but only apply your nerf to the battlegrounds areas.
please, i beg of you.


zenimax, please just only nerf speeds in the battle grounds.
so the rest of eso in cryodiil pvp and pve areas are not destroyed.

Why should you be lightning fast when you are in sneak? Sneak is a synonym of creep; to move slowly and carefully in order to avoid detection. You sir, need an English lesson. Quit begging, you sound desperate. I bet you use Zaan.

RedTalon

I use the cowards outfit for relic running myself, swift is bad for my relic running since like to sheath grrab and stack potions on top of it in-case their is a good defender. .

Plus people really need to guard better, people never really use bash or such to stop a cap they use a knockback which you break free and never follow up with just plain bashing while you cap.

Drakkdjinn

swift aint limited to stam cheese, swift is just a bad idea in general

Hutch679

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

swift aint limited to stam cheese, swift is just a bad idea in general

Swift is a great idea. It gives a whole new playstyle to the game.

Galarthor

Anethum wrote: »

pff, u can cc and burst such players, spam gap closers or get the same speed, or to def relics better. this high speed is not so "very best" as u imagine

Excpet that you can't. Forward Momentum grants permanent immunity to root and slow. And the majority of stuns can be dodged.
Getting the same speed is not equivalent to having counterplay. What good does it do you to run next to the guy not being able to do anything while he brings the relic home?

There are 2 different concepts here.

1) having access to the same mechanics
2) counterplay against these mechanics

Hutch679 wrote: »

Have you heard of immovable speed pots? Streak would be superrrrr OP. Mag classes can still build speed due to swift jewelry. Sorcs have access to expedition buffs. Everyone can use speed pots... I think this is a knowledge issue. You dont play a speed buff style, so you think no one else should be able to. That's what I'm reading from your post.

And combining Immovable pots with the faster and cheaper sprinting which also allows to dodge attacks and stuns on the move is not "superrrrr OP"? What hypocrisy!

Sure everybody can put on Swift jewelry, but it far better synergies with stamina builds. As for Sorcs having access to Major Expedition: try that without sprinting. You will notice it is a lot slower. And no, magBuilds cannot afford to sprint in BGs. On top of that the magBuilds don't get permanent immunity to root and slows which considerably reduces their speed and requires stamina for breaking free. MagBuilds also cannot afford to dodge all the time to avoid stuns or damage while carrying the relic. Yes they can shield and heal, but especially in nonCP these mitigation effects are very limited (unlike dodge) and in general do not prevent CC (unlike dodge). Looks like the "knowledge issue" is on your end.

Merlin13KAGL

Zeromaz wrote: »

Stamina gets 12% increase in speed IF they have 7 medium. Thats a minuscule amount to complain about

If by 12%, you mean 21%, yes.

Minno wrote: »

The secret to relic defense, is to stick around and bash/interrupt them.

Good pvp'ers don't let friends PVD without a challenge lol.

Which is why defenders should get more medal/point credit at the end. Running the relic is certainly required. Not losing your own in the process is, as well.

IDK. It's both interesting and a pain in the ass at the same time that you almost need to have different gear sets for the different modes of play, inventory space being a premium and all.

Hutch679

Galarthor wrote: »

Anethum wrote: »

pff, u can cc and burst such players, spam gap closers or get the same speed, or to def relics better. this high speed is not so "very best" as u imagine

Excpet that you can't. Forward Momentum grants permanent immunity to root and slow. And the majority of stuns can be dodged.
Getting the same speed is not equivalent to having counterplay. What good does it do you to run next to the guy not being able to do anything while he brings the relic home?

There are 2 different concepts here.

1) having access to the same mechanics
2) counterplay against these mechanics

Hutch679 wrote: »

Have you heard of immovable speed pots? Streak would be superrrrr OP. Mag classes can still build speed due to swift jewelry. Sorcs have access to expedition buffs. Everyone can use speed pots... I think this is a knowledge issue. You dont play a speed buff style, so you think no one else should be able to. That's what I'm reading from your post.

And combining Immovable pots with the faster and cheaper sprinting which also allows to dodge attacks and stuns on the move is not "superrrrr OP"? What hypocrisy!

Sure everybody can put on Swift jewelry, but it far better synergies with stamina builds. As for Sorcs having access to Major Expedition: try that without sprinting. You will notice it is a lot slower. And no, magBuilds cannot afford to sprint in BGs. On top of that the magBuilds don't get permanent immunity to root and slows which considerably reduces their speed and requires stamina for breaking free. MagBuilds also cannot afford to dodge all the time to avoid stuns or damage while carrying the relic. Yes they can shield and heal, but especially in nonCP these mitigation effects are very limited (unlike dodge) and in general do not prevent CC (unlike dodge). Looks like the "knowledge issue" is on your end.

If you're a sorc and you're complaining about speed, then it's a learn to play issue
Mag sorc is the fastest class in the game. Waaaaaaaay more mobile than stamina classes

BigBadVolk

Hutch679 wrote: »

Galarthor wrote: »

Anethum wrote: »

pff, u can cc and burst such players, spam gap closers or get the same speed, or to def relics better. this high speed is not so "very best" as u imagine

Excpet that you can't. Forward Momentum grants permanent immunity to root and slow. And the majority of stuns can be dodged.
Getting the same speed is not equivalent to having counterplay. What good does it do you to run next to the guy not being able to do anything while he brings the relic home?

There are 2 different concepts here.

1) having access to the same mechanics
2) counterplay against these mechanics

Hutch679 wrote: »

Have you heard of immovable speed pots? Streak would be superrrrr OP. Mag classes can still build speed due to swift jewelry. Sorcs have access to expedition buffs. Everyone can use speed pots... I think this is a knowledge issue. You dont play a speed buff style, so you think no one else should be able to. That's what I'm reading from your post.

And combining Immovable pots with the faster and cheaper sprinting which also allows to dodge attacks and stuns on the move is not "superrrrr OP"? What hypocrisy!

Sure everybody can put on Swift jewelry, but it far better synergies with stamina builds. As for Sorcs having access to Major Expedition: try that without sprinting. You will notice it is a lot slower. And no, magBuilds cannot afford to sprint in BGs. On top of that the magBuilds don't get permanent immunity to root and slows which considerably reduces their speed and requires stamina for breaking free. MagBuilds also cannot afford to dodge all the time to avoid stuns or damage while carrying the relic. Yes they can shield and heal, but especially in nonCP these mitigation effects are very limited (unlike dodge) and in general do not prevent CC (unlike dodge). Looks like the "knowledge issue" is on your end.

If you're a sorc and you're complaining about speed, then it's a learn to play issue
Mag sorc is the fastest class in the game. Waaaaaaaay more mobile than stamina classes

Magsorc/Magblade (with the speed blur or path) = Any daily car
Stamblade with blur/full medium/swift = Sports car

Drakkdjinn

Hutch679 wrote: »

Drakkdjinn wrote: »

swift aint limited to stam cheese, swift is just a bad idea in general

Swift is a great idea. It gives a whole new playstyle to the game.

The playstyle already existed pre-Morrowind when the speed cap was implemented, now it takes less imagination & effort to build for regardless of your main resource.

Qbiken

Swift is indeed very strong, especially since snares got a duration nerf this patch as well :P

Vapirko

Galarthor wrote: »

It is ridiculous at which speeds stamina builds can transport the relics in the BGs. It was already bad prior to the introduction of the Switf jewelry trait, but now ...
And as a nice cherry on top, these stam builds can't be rooted or slowed courtesy of Forward Momentum. And as if that was not already bad enough, they can also dodge the majority of stuns thrown their way. There is literally no stopping these stamina builds once they take off with the relic.

At the same time steak, which is slower and more expensive, is deemed OP to be used while carrying the relic and as such disabled when carrying the relic. And other magicka builds are not even provided with the ability to theoretically achieve any worth mentioning speeds.

The same is by the way true for scrolls in cyrodiil.

Could you please explain to me how that is considered to be balanced?

Thanks

Hey look, not everyone can afford steak ok? It’s not ZOS’ fault.

Emma_Overload

NOTHING in this game should be balanced around Battlegrounds, period.

Leave Swift trait alone!

Galarthor

Hutch679 wrote: »

If you're a sorc and you're complaining about speed, then it's a learn to play issue
Mag sorc is the fastest class in the game. Waaaaaaaay more mobile than stamina classes

Keep digging your own grave.

Vapirko wrote: »

Hey look, not everyone can afford steak ok? It’s not ZOS’ fault.

Not everybody can afford to continously sprint and dodge roll either. And unlike streak it does not stun the user. The fact that you can animation cancle with dodge and it doesnt require a bar slot makes it that much more powerful.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NOTHING in this game should be balanced around Battlegrounds, period.

Leave Swift trait alone!

I agree on the first part. However, BGs should be balanced around class / build balance! The same way you cannot streak while carrying objectives you shouldnt be able to run at speeds at are equivalent or even superior to the speed when streaking. Especially since these stamina speed builds are completely immune to CC effects unlike the already inferior magicka counterparts.

As for The Swift trait, I disagree, as it further moves the class imbalance in pvp toward stamina builds. Not only does it synergize way better with stamina builds, it also comes at lower opportunity cost for them since the effectiveness of dodge roll and block is not dependent on your max stamina, but the effectivness of heals and shields (magicka defensive tools) is!

Hutch679

Galarthor wrote: »

Hutch679 wrote: »

If you're a sorc and you're complaining about speed, then it's a learn to play issue
Mag sorc is the fastest class in the game. Waaaaaaaay more mobile than stamina classes

Keep digging your own grave.

Vapirko wrote: »

Hey look, not everyone can afford steak ok? It’s not ZOS’ fault.

Not everybody can afford to continously sprint and dodge roll either. And unlike streak it does not stun the user. The fact that you can animation cancle with dodge and it doesnt require a bar slot makes it that much more powerful.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

NOTHING in this game should be balanced around Battlegrounds, period.

Leave Swift trait alone!

I agree on the first part. However, BGs should be balanced around class / build balance! The same way you cannot streak while carrying objectives you shouldnt be able to run at speeds at are equivalent or even superior to the speed when streaking. Especially since these stamina speed builds are completely immune to CC effects unlike the already inferior magicka counterparts.

As for The Swift trait, I disagree, as it further moves the class imbalance in pvp toward stamina builds. Not only does it synergize way better with stamina builds, it also comes at lower opportunity cost for them since the effectiveness of dodge roll and block is not dependent on your max stamina, but the effectivness of heals and shields (magicka defensive tools) is!

Lol! I can smell the salt. Swift jewelry should remain how it is. Actually, mag sorcs should have their shields scale off max health instead of magicka. Then we can talk about balance. You get three shields to survive that scale off the same stat that increases your damage. Swift jewelry means they are giving up damage to be fast.... this thread is a joke lmao salty sorc coming to complain about the stam builds in bgs lol

HankTwo

Imo, swift was a bad addition to the game, because it further enhanced builds that already had 100% possible uptime on snare immunity and major expedition. It would be better if swift would reduce the effect of snares applied to you or increase sprint speed instead.