lordrichter wrote: »
No, you just got that.
I'm not saying that you're lying but a private message from a ZOS employee isn't quite the same as an official statement.
Private message also isn't the same as a ToS and EULA that explicitly states that it is prohibited.
Until that is fixed, all the messages in the world won't make it against the rules. Terms of Service supercede any such statements.
"You may not sell, and You may not assist others in selling, Service(s) or in-Game items for real currency, or exchange those items for value outside of the Services."
degarmo_ESO wrote: »Against the rules, nearly impossible to prove.
lordrichter wrote: »
No, you just got that.
I'm not saying that you're lying but a private message from a ZOS employee isn't quite the same as an official statement.
Private message also isn't the same as a ToS and EULA that explicitly states that it is prohibited.
Until that is fixed, all the messages in the world won't make it against the rules. Terms of Service supercede any such statements.
"You may not sell, and You may not assist others in selling, Service(s) or in-Game items for real currency, or exchange those items for value outside of the Services."
Neither Crowns, Crown-items nor gold constitute "real currency" or "value outside of the Services".
This is kinda strange - you bought it, so it is yours. You can do whatever you want with it, even to destroy it. This is the definition of the ownership. So response above is saying that zos not only wants the money for the item, they want to control its use in a future. irl this is against the law. May be someone will sue them at some point.... Would be fun to see.
-vovus
"Content" includes technology, text, forum posts, chat posts, profiles, widgets, messages, links, emails, music, sound, graphics, animations, animation-style videos, Content, pictures, code, files, data, characters (and items and attributes associated with characters), and all audio visual or other material appearing on or emanating to and/or from the Services, as well as the design and appearance of any websites under ZeniMax's control. All Content made available by ZeniMax, unless explicitly identified as third party Content, is owned by ZeniMax, its affiliates and/or their licensors.
You agree that You have no ownership right or title in or to any such Downloadable Content, including, but not limited to, the virtual goods appearing or originating in the Services (such as a Game) or any other attributes associated with any Account or Services. ZeniMax does not recognize any purported transfers of virtual property executed outside of the Game, or the purported sale, gift or trade in the "real world" of anything that appears or originates in a Service or a Game. Accordingly, You may not sell, and You may not assist others in selling, Service(s) or in-Game items for real currency, or exchange those items for value outside of the Services. Evidence of any attempt to redeem Downloadable Content for a purported exchange, sale, gift or trade in the "real world" will result in the immediate suspension or termination of Your Account.
By creating an Account, You agree that You do not own the Account, any user names created on the Account, any Content stored or associated with an Account (such as digital and/or virtual assets, achievements, virtual currency, and other Downloadable Content), or related data associated with the Account.
No, that's not an official response from ZoS. That's an employee replying to a question.Here is the official response from ZOS:
lordrichter wrote: »
No, you just got that.
I'm not saying that you're lying but a private message from a ZOS employee isn't quite the same as an official statement.
Private message also isn't the same as a ToS and EULA that explicitly states that it is prohibited.
Until that is fixed, all the messages in the world won't make it against the rules. Terms of Service supercede any such statements.
"You may not sell, and You may not assist others in selling, Service(s) or in-Game items for real currency, or exchange those items for value outside of the Services."
Here is the official response from ZOS:
Greetings,
Trading gold for Crowns is completely against the rules, same goes for providing Crown Store items in exchange for gold.
Thanks,
Mykael
Elder Scrolls Online
ZeniMax Online Studios
So that settles the matter once and for all. No more ambiguity.
ZOS sent this response on 6/5/18 at 7:16 PM UTC. The support ticket number is 180530-003571.
lordrichter wrote: »
No, you just got that.
I'm not saying that you're lying but a private message from a ZOS employee isn't quite the same as an official statement.
Private message also isn't the same as a ToS and EULA that explicitly states that it is prohibited.
Until that is fixed, all the messages in the world won't make it against the rules. Terms of Service supercede any such statements.
"You may not sell, and You may not assist others in selling, Service(s) or in-Game items for real currency, or exchange those items for value outside of the Services."
Except crown store items are not a real currency. Real dollars are not being exchanged for gold here. Crown items (having been purchased with real money, thus the real currency has already been used) are being exchanged for gold. Which according to your quote, Gold is a value inside the service. So we have something that is not real currency, being exchanged for a value within the service (gold). which is not a violation of what you just posted.
So we don't have real money being exchanged for gold. Crown Items are not a real currency. And Gold is a value inside the service.
Hence all the confusion. Exchanging crown items for gold, is by no definition, gold selling, or giving someone real currency for anything. Which is why people want ZOS to take a position or update the ToS.
What ZOS needs to do is specify whether exchanging real currency BY PROXY of crown store items for gold is or is not allowed. That's the question here. Real dollars are not exchanging hands. But items bought with real currency is, for an in service value. And the documents provided are not clear about that at all.
Like I said before, I would not advise it. I think it's a bad risk for people to take. Again, just grind gold with the rest of us.
Wait so here is a scenario
Guild holds a raffle ... It's gold to enter
The prizes are gifts from the crown store
Does the whole guild get in trouble or just the winners ?
Your ZoS rep is a noob that needs retraining sorry
lordrichter wrote: »
No, you just got that.
I'm not saying that you're lying but a private message from a ZOS employee isn't quite the same as an official statement.
Private message also isn't the same as a ToS and EULA that explicitly states that it is prohibited.
Until that is fixed, all the messages in the world won't make it against the rules. Terms of Service supercede any such statements.
"You may not sell, and You may not assist others in selling, Service(s) or in-Game items for real currency, or exchange those items for value outside of the Services."
Except crown store items are not a real currency. Real dollars are not being exchanged for gold here. Crown items (having been purchased with real money, thus the real currency has already been used) are being exchanged for gold. Which according to your quote, Gold is a value inside the service. So we have something that is not real currency, being exchanged for a value within the service (gold). which is not a violation of what you just posted.
So we don't have real money being exchanged for gold. Crown Items are not a real currency. And Gold is a value inside the service.
Hence all the confusion. Exchanging crown items for gold, is by no definition, gold selling, or giving someone real currency for anything. Which is why people want ZOS to take a position or update the ToS.
What ZOS needs to do is specify whether exchanging real currency BY PROXY of crown store items for gold is or is not allowed. That's the question here. Real dollars are not exchanging hands. But items bought with real currency is, for an in service value. And the documents provided are not clear about that at all.
Like I said before, I would not advise it. I think it's a bad risk for people to take. Again, just grind gold with the rest of us.
MEBengalsFan2001 wrote: »If they consider this gold selling, than yeah it becomes an issue. In other games it is hard to prove and many here have provided scenario where it would be hard to prove but they, the developer, has the right to take action against players who may appear to be breaking the ToS.
With gifting to another it is a gift meaning you should not expect anything in return. However, if you are getting something in return, say gold or other items of value you may be violating the rules. So tread careful when gifting or trading items.
dwemer_paleologist wrote: »this to me is hard to accept, seeing that all of us zenimax, the crown item purchaser, and the gold giver are and would be winners in this.
all people involved would gain what they want if this was allowed.
so to me this does not seem what would be the right response.
but, it is what it is.