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Completionists versus the World

victoriana-blue
victoriana-blue
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I like completing lists of furnishing plans, but I'm starting to give up hope of ever collecting even 90% of the furnishing plans in this game. :( I wish furnishing plans were more like the food & drink recipes: a long project for the rare ones, but where I can at least find an unknown recipe if I search 10 guild traders.

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ZOS, I like collecting things, even if I never use them. I like the search, I like the satisfaction of finding the perfect thing either by farming or for a good price in a guild store, I like providing a service to my guildmates by crafting furnishings for them. I'm enjoying the hunt for House motifs and it feels rewarding to run around pickpocketing people. Furnishings plans.. not so much, anymore.

Pre-Morrowind, it was pretty awesome. I was able to pick up some purples out in the world. The 10-voucher purple envelopes had a good chance of dropping unknown plans, and the cost in mats + the writ (or foregone income by not selling a dropped writ) meant a lot of crafters could break even by selling their unwanted purple plans for 10-25k on PC-NA. 10-25k is affordable - a person can save that up, go on a larceny spree, or sell off gold tempers in zone chat, and it's an impulse purchase for a good chunk of the player base. A nice 100-voucher writ could get 10 envelopes, and it was exciting to open them. For motifs I was working on Akaviri and only had one or two Mazzatun pages, but it was a long-term goal.

Since Morrowind, trying to collect plans has been *** awful, profanity fully appropriate. Not only are the drop rates on Morrowind purples atrocious, not only are BA motifs broken (still batting zero for these and Morrowind paintings), but the increased cost for the purple envelopes decimated the plan market. I'm sure devs much better data than I do, but the supply of purples has dried up in part because it's difficult to sell a plan (that isn't redguard or House) for over 25k gold, and the break-even point for unwanted purples is now closer to 30-40k per plan on PC-NA despite falling prices on writs worth less than 20 vouchers. Even at 25k the plans take weeks to sell, filling up a sales slot that I could have used to make 50k+ from mats over the same amount of time. It's not rewarding to open four envelopes to get only one unknown recipe when you know the other three plans won't sell for anywhere close to the price you paid to get them. (I'm sure it's worse on console.)

Put another way: between February and May, I learned about half of the available Homestead purples (as of today, 221 of 383), and currently have 856 of the 1045 Homestead patterns on my crafter (about 4/5). Between June and now, I've learned 8/150 of the Morrowind purples, all of which are daedric - and therefore cheap - but only 55 of the 290 available Morrowind patterns (1/5).

Something needs to change, whether that "something" is drop rates, envelope prices, or the writ->voucher formula. Back in January, one of the devs said that they want housing to be a long time investment, and I'm a-okay with that. I have 2.5k hours in this game since July 2016, I'm 9/9 on all crafts as of August, and I farm 9-10 hours a week for fun. I'm okay with this taking time! But if I'm having trouble, that means lots of people are having even more trouble and that's not okay.

tl;dr Morrowind and purple homestead plans are difficult to find, in an un-fun way, for players who aren't rolling in gold. Please improve this.


Anyone else with suggestions/anecdata/commiseration?

(All furniture plans counted by the Furniture Catalogue add-on, which I strongly recommend for PC users - the list is searchable and you can link the item or the recipe in chat. I use purples as the reference point because they're easier to obtain than dropped gold plans, and they range from cheap wood elf stuff to the rare redguard and House furnishings.)
CP 750+
Never enough inventory space, even with storage coffers and a mule account
  • Feanor
    Feanor
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    I rarely even find purple plans in the open world. Granted I'm not doing insane things like spending hours in Old Orsinium or something like that, but I grab every container I see. I find plenty of green ones of course, but even to find a blue one is quite a rare occurrence if you're not flat out farming dedicatedly.

    To me it's much more efficient to simply buy the item I would need on a guild store as most stuff has become quite cheap since the market is more saturated and the mats are cheaper now too.

    I don't see myself bothering with the plans in the future.
    Edited by Feanor on 8 September 2017 09:08
    Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar
    All chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.
  • Apherius
    Apherius
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    if the housing limit was infinite maybe i would love to collect them, but it's not the case so i don't care of these furnitures plans.
  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    I get the feeling that maybe ZOS wanted to keep it rare/hard so that we have to build and trade with one another.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • DeadlyRecluse
    DeadlyRecluse
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    I agree, and would also like to add that the Alchemy master furnisher achievement (learn 25 alchemy furnishings) is an incredibly frustrating one. It only requires 25 alchemy formulas, but I'm at 19/25 and it's almost impossible to find unknown ones now without paying more than 50k.

    ....meanwhile it's pretty easy to motor through the woodworking equivalent--which requires 200 plans learned.
    Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub
  • CGPsaint
    CGPsaint
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    I don't even bother with furnishing plans anymore, because the majority of plans on guild traders now are the newer Daedric plans, and that damned Redguard Desk, Florid. I don't feel compelled to scroll through hundreds of these plans in the hope of finding what I'm looking for. Aside from the overabundance of the plans mentioned, I feel that Zenimax really screwed the pooch when they changed the cost of purple plans from 10 vouchers to 25 vouchers, as that seemed to be the beginning of the end for the furnishing plans market.
  • victoriana-blue
    victoriana-blue
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    Turelus wrote: »
    I get the feeling that maybe ZOS wanted to keep it rare/hard so that we have to build and trade with one another.

    True, but with over a thousand plans in Homestead alone the odds of non-collectors having plans for everything they want to make are low, so there were lots of opportunities to sell or commission furniture. Not to mention the trade in plans themselves! ;)
    I agree, and would also like to add that the Alchemy master furnisher achievement (learn 25 alchemy furnishings) is an incredibly frustrating one. It only requires 25 alchemy formulas, but I'm at 19/25 and it's almost impossible to find unknown ones now without paying more than 50k.

    ....meanwhile it's pretty easy to motor through the woodworking equivalent--which requires 200 plans learned.

    100% agree, though my bugbear was enchanting instead of alchemy. I think Morrowind adding a lot more formula and praxis plans was a step in the right direction.. except that the blues are so rare that they're often listed for 40k+ and purples for 200k and up. I don't remember base game blues ever being that expensive, not even on launch day!
    CP 750+
    Never enough inventory space, even with storage coffers and a mule account
  • kylewwefan
    kylewwefan
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    There's no place in this game for completionist. I gave up after alliance motifs started dropping in the IC. The task is undaunted. Once you get a few caught up, they introduce more. A lot more. Just like achievements.
  • Jayne_Doe
    Jayne_Doe
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    The furnishing market seems to have stabilized somewhat on console - at least on XB. At MW launch, plan prices plummeted, but that was presumably from everyone saving up their furnishing documents and opening them with the adjusted RNG. That meant lots of plans cheap in the guild stores. Now, things seem to have improved. Plans hover around 20K for Wood Elf, Khajiit, Nord, with Breton/High Elf around 25-30K, and Redguard around 30-40K+.

    And, the MW plans still sell for quite a bit, usually 50K plus for blues. I've only ever seen one purple for sale, over 200K. But, as mentioned, these are extremely hard to get, as you have to farm for them - they don't drop in the furnishing documents.

    I haven't done much farming of the new motifs - tried for a couple hours on a couple nights with nothing to show for it except a few of the mats, but I did end up with a blue MW furnishing plan I didn't know, so I will try to do some serious motif farming this weekend, as I may get lucky with some more furnishing plans as well.
    Edited by Jayne_Doe on 8 September 2017 17:53
  • Reivax
    Reivax
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    Either the developers have zero ay-nal-retentives on their staff, or they're sadists and just want to drive us nuts.
  • victoriana-blue
    victoriana-blue
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    Reivax wrote: »
    Either the developers have zero ay-nal-retentives on their staff, or they're sadists and just want to drive us nuts.

    Given that earlier this year, one of the devs (maybe Rich or Mike Finnegan? idr) said in a Live that they were surprised by all the self-made challenges people were coming up with for trials, it's definitely plausible there wasn't much attention given to collecting completionists wrt Homestead. (I'm happy to be corrected, ZOS folks. ;) ) Like @DeadlyRecluse said, the achievements we do have are disproportionate to the numbers of plans available for any given category.

    Though the latter option would add more weight to the wrobeltroll meme... :open_mouth:
    kylewwefan wrote: »
    There's no place in this game for completionist. I gave up after alliance motifs started dropping in the IC. The task is undaunted. Once you get a few caught up, they introduce more. A lot more. Just like achievements.

    I started playing well after you, so I can't say anything about the IC changes. Sad to hear that there was a point where you gave up too. :(

    I'm okay with ZOS adding new things each quarter, as long as the general game population has a hope of collecting them all (BA, Mazzatun, SR, I'm looking at you). I'm grateful that with motifs there's the "You have finished a set" journal entry, where even if you have 200 more motif pages to collect you can say "I finished this set of 14." .. Not that that helps when I look at the difficulty/prices of the remaining motifs. D:
    CP 750+
    Never enough inventory space, even with storage coffers and a mule account
  • helediron
    helediron
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    I gave up collecting Morrowind stuff. No other update has been so bad for crafters. Zero system updates and either too easy or too hard RNG. No systematic way to collect plans. After i got every set table to my home, there has been nothing left to do. I am just doing writs once or twice per week until my subs expire.

    My options were to run in circles around Wardenfell after chests, run in circles murdering Vivec citizens or take a break. I picked the last option.
    On hiatus. PC,EU,AD - crafting completionist - @helediron 900+ cp, @helestor 1000+ cp, @helestar 800+ cp, @helester 700+ cp - Dragonborn Z Suomikilta, Harrods, Master Crafter. - Blog - Crafthouse: all stations, all munduses, all dummies, open to everyone
  • Latonia
    Latonia
    I started out collecting with great intentions - set up an Excel spreadsheet to mark my progress but since Morrowind have a different approach. I still have a couple of alts parked for thieving in two Vvardenfell tombs and have found a handful of purples but mostly green and blue plans (and thousands of lockpicks - wish there could be a bit more variety of loot ZOS) but now if I get anything worth 10k gold or over, I prefer to sell it and buy a plan I actually want. I don't think my collection will ever be complete which saddens me a bit but you have to be realistic.
  • Bagatur
    Bagatur
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    I got all the Homestead plans early on, every single one, spent10-12 millions with no regrets. So I went the same way with Morrowind. As you can guess to no avail. I've found one purple MW so far and I never pass a container. Additionally, with the stupid motifs drops system, I've made about 12 millions gold just farming house motives, last 20 or so days. That's hundreds and hundreds pages. Got a gold Hlaalu book too. Meanwhile, while pickpocketing that much, I've gotten ONE purple motif and its not MW one.
    And there is more. In patch notes there was a DEDICATED line stating you can get furnishing object from shroom beetles. Well, you don't. I've killed nearly 2000 (got 2582 crawlers) and I haven't gotten anything, literally doesn't worth the left click to kill them.

    Basically, there is nothing in Morrowind, beside motifs introduced with HotR which can give you feelling of completion and deserved reward. You simply get nothing for your efforts at any satisfactory rate. I just pretend these things dont exist. ZOS lost me on this point, completely. I'm neither going to farm virtually unfarmable things, nor I'm going to pay 200-300K or more per MW purple motif.
  • DirkRavenclaw
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    This one found yesterday his very first Purple Furniture Blueprint, luckily a Khajiit Tent Vaccation. This one found it in a Delve in Cyrodill, this one needs to look more there, me thinks
    Council Member of AtWritsEnd, Member of LoneWolfeHelp, Donor of GhostSeaTradingCO., Factor of EastEmpireTradingCO.,HonourGuard of ´DominionImperialGuard(DIG/PVP)

    Master Crafter including Jewelry, i craft for Mats and Donation, always happy to help, if Im not in the Middle of PVP, i play since around 14 Months
  • Nestor
    Nestor
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    I take solace in that I have collected all the food recipes in the game. Motifs and Furniture Recipes? Probably never going to happen to complete those.
    Enjoy the game, life is what you really want to be worried about.

    PakKat "Everything was going well, until I died"
    Gary Gravestink "I am glad you died, I needed the help"

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