Update 50 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Maintenance for the week of April 20:
• [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for patch maintenance – April 20, 3:00AM EDT (7:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 20, 7:00 UTC (3:00AM EDT) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
• [COMPLETE] NA megaservers for patch maintenance – April 20, 3:00AM EDT (7:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] EU megaservers for patch maintenance – April 20, 7:00 UTC (3:00AM EDT) - 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT)
2H 2 set piece
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Jaazer✭I believe that DW is superior by design. It takes more effort (and time) to obtain two suitable weapons versus one for drop sets. For this reason alone I believe that ZOS will never make any change.
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Mitoice✭✭✭✭✭I dont get how using a dual wield as my magicka templar counts as balanced....
havent seen ANY magicka user on movies or other MMOs using 2 swords as a primary weapon...0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I dont get how using a dual wield as my magicka templar counts as balanced....
havent seen ANY magicka user on movies or other MMOs using 2 swords as a primary weapon...
and the linkage between balance and appearance on tv is???
if we go on TV, the bath towel would be the strongest armor around when worn on male or female characters. Then the low tier bosmer light stuff. cuiz you know more skin shown = more protection.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
tnanever✭✭✭murdomac101 wrote: »but this game is about being able to play any style, any way, with any race. but 2hw not counting as a two set piece means players who like to use these are limited in terms of sets and either have to change their builds, or adopt DW/1HS in order to make sets work.
"being able to play any style, any way, with any race. " check! can do.
"being able to play any style, any way, with any race and any choices without consequences".nope, not check.
your choices matter. ]
that means they should all be ones that produce some good things and either some bad things or the loss of other good things.
I mean, yes if you choose 2h you dont get certain build options... just like if you choose selenes you dont get molag kena... or should we be able to put second and third and such monster pairs in any of our slots?
the current set issues make it so that different set options are available or good or better depending on weapons chosen and the playtest and live play since day one has been with that in play.
Wrong again, stevil. None of your posts against 2-handed = 2 set items make any sense, because your argument is essentially:
"Dual wield and 1-hand/shield are SO WEAK, that they need another 5-piece set bonus just to stay balanced with 2-handed weapons."
Over and over I have to point out that this reasoning in nonsensical. In your mind, you've invented this fiction where the devs have intentionally balanced the thousands of set combinations of 1-handed vs 2-handed weapons, instead of simply balancing the weapon types against each other.
Can you just stop posting your bad argument? If you're really against 2-handed weapons counting as 2 set items, then post something legitimate. Perhaps argue that you like how different weapons types have different set completion strategies, and that the game should be balanced along these lines. Just stop insinuating that 2-handed weapons were purposefully made stronger and that all set combinations were analyzed to balance them for 1-handed weapons. Ridiculous.1 -
And once again, someone is spamming the board to change x to y.
Go away.0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭murdomac101 wrote: »but this game is about being able to play any style, any way, with any race. but 2hw not counting as a two set piece means players who like to use these are limited in terms of sets and either have to change their builds, or adopt DW/1HS in order to make sets work.
"being able to play any style, any way, with any race. " check! can do.
"being able to play any style, any way, with any race and any choices without consequences".nope, not check.
your choices matter. ]
that means they should all be ones that produce some good things and either some bad things or the loss of other good things.
I mean, yes if you choose 2h you dont get certain build options... just like if you choose selenes you dont get molag kena... or should we be able to put second and third and such monster pairs in any of our slots?
the current set issues make it so that different set options are available or good or better depending on weapons chosen and the playtest and live play since day one has been with that in play.
Wrong again, stevil. None of your posts against 2-handed = 2 set items make any sense, because your argument is essentially:
"Dual wield and 1-hand/shield are SO WEAK, that they need another 5-piece set bonus just to stay balanced with 2-handed weapons."
Over and over I have to point out that this reasoning in nonsensical. In your mind, you've invented this fiction where the devs have intentionally balanced the thousands of set combinations of 1-handed vs 2-handed weapons, instead of simply balancing the weapon types against each other.
Can you just stop posting your bad argument? If you're really against 2-handed weapons counting as 2 set items, then post something legitimate. Perhaps argue that you like how different weapons types have different set completion strategies, and that the game should be balanced along these lines. Just stop insinuating that 2-handed weapons were purposefully made stronger and that all set combinations were analyzed to balance them for 1-handed weapons. Ridiculous.
I must say your choice to focus on trying to make this personal. If you have to reinvent my reasoning before offering dissent to it, that says something.
The person trying to fabricate this test vs thousands of combo nonsense is you as a straw man to attack.
As for the rest of your comment, just recording of points already made.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Recently a called servant of the Nine did a poll, most of the community wants 2H to be 2 set pieces
Like I said I duel wield a lot, and tank a ton, but what really turns me off from 2H is lacking a set piece, 5/5/1, not 5/5/2
It doesn't really matter what 'most' of the (limited polling base of the forums) community wants when it's stuff that effects balance. A lot of people think it's a good idea only because of the benefit but don't see the bigger picture.
Most kids want to eat nothing but ice cream for dinner all the time but that's not a good idea, except to them because it's what they want.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]0 -
Jaazer✭Recently a called servant of the Nine did a poll, most of the community wants 2H to be 2 set pieces
Like I said I duel wield a lot, and tank a ton, but what really turns me off from 2H is lacking a set piece, 5/5/1, not 5/5/2
It doesn't really matter what 'most' of the (limited polling base of the forums) community wants when it's stuff that effects balance. A lot of people think it's a good idea only because of the benefit but don't see the bigger picture.
Most kids want to eat nothing but ice cream for dinner all the time but that's not a good idea, except to them because it's what they want.
DW = ice cream
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tnanever✭✭✭murdomac101 wrote: »but this game is about being able to play any style, any way, with any race. but 2hw not counting as a two set piece means players who like to use these are limited in terms of sets and either have to change their builds, or adopt DW/1HS in order to make sets work.
"being able to play any style, any way, with any race. " check! can do.
"being able to play any style, any way, with any race and any choices without consequences".nope, not check.
your choices matter. ]
that means they should all be ones that produce some good things and either some bad things or the loss of other good things.
I mean, yes if you choose 2h you dont get certain build options... just like if you choose selenes you dont get molag kena... or should we be able to put second and third and such monster pairs in any of our slots?
the current set issues make it so that different set options are available or good or better depending on weapons chosen and the playtest and live play since day one has been with that in play.
Wrong again, stevil. None of your posts against 2-handed = 2 set items make any sense, because your argument is essentially:
"Dual wield and 1-hand/shield are SO WEAK, that they need another 5-piece set bonus just to stay balanced with 2-handed weapons."
Over and over I have to point out that this reasoning in nonsensical. In your mind, you've invented this fiction where the devs have intentionally balanced the thousands of set combinations of 1-handed vs 2-handed weapons, instead of simply balancing the weapon types against each other.
Can you just stop posting your bad argument? If you're really against 2-handed weapons counting as 2 set items, then post something legitimate. Perhaps argue that you like how different weapons types have different set completion strategies, and that the game should be balanced along these lines. Just stop insinuating that 2-handed weapons were purposefully made stronger and that all set combinations were analyzed to balance them for 1-handed weapons. Ridiculous.
I must say your choice to focus on trying to make this personal. If you have to reinvent my reasoning before offering dissent to it, that says something.
The person trying to fabricate this test vs thousands of combo nonsense is you as a straw man to attack.
As for the rest of your comment, just recording of points already made.
Um no, stevil. I'm not reinventing anything. You've stated several times that your concern is that 2-handed weapons would be unbalanced if they were treated equally as 1-handed weapons for set completion. Go check your own post history.
Regarding the balance of thousands of combinations - There is no straw man, because that's the only logical way you could present your argument. Your only defense would be a claim of insanity, and that your argument was completely irrational to begin with.0 -
tnanever✭✭✭Recently a called servant of the Nine did a poll, most of the community wants 2H to be 2 set pieces
Like I said I duel wield a lot, and tank a ton, but what really turns me off from 2H is lacking a set piece, 5/5/1, not 5/5/2
It doesn't really matter what 'most' of the (limited polling base of the forums) community wants when it's stuff that effects balance. A lot of people think it's a good idea only because of the benefit but don't see the bigger picture.
Most kids want to eat nothing but ice cream for dinner all the time but that's not a good idea, except to them because it's what they want.
So sigtric, it sounds like you're one of those crazy people who think the devs purposefully made 2-handed weapons overpowered, and purposefully compensated by giving a free monster-helm or 5-piece set bonus to 1-handed weapons in order to compete. Ridiculous assumption on several levels.0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Recently a called servant of the Nine did a poll, most of the community wants 2H to be 2 set pieces
Like I said I duel wield a lot, and tank a ton, but what really turns me off from 2H is lacking a set piece, 5/5/1, not 5/5/2
It doesn't really matter what 'most' of the (limited polling base of the forums) community wants when it's stuff that effects balance. A lot of people think it's a good idea only because of the benefit but don't see the bigger picture.
Most kids want to eat nothing but ice cream for dinner all the time but that's not a good idea, except to them because it's what they want.
So sigtric, it sounds like you're one of those crazy people who think the devs purposefully made 2-handed weapons overpowered, and purposefully compensated by giving a free monster-helm or 5-piece set bonus to 1-handed weapons in order to compete. Ridiculous assumption on several levels.
In pve magicka is king, they all use staffs. They do not need a boost.
In pvp 2h is by far king, most stamina builds use 2h because its simply just better, better skills, better passives.
Currently you can complete basically 95% of pve content with a 2h build, dw builds have slight more dps than 2h for stamina dps and therefore are preferred in end game trials which have dps races etc..
2h or staves do not need a buff.
Its easy enough to go 5/5/2 with both staffs or 2h now. Its choices and consequences. Live with them.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
Strider_Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Let's see...
In PvE stamina is dominated by DW
In PvP stamina is dominated by DW proc builds.
Oh yes, 2H is certainly too powerful to be considered a 2-piece.2 -
tnanever✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Recently a called servant of the Nine did a poll, most of the community wants 2H to be 2 set pieces
Like I said I duel wield a lot, and tank a ton, but what really turns me off from 2H is lacking a set piece, 5/5/1, not 5/5/2
It doesn't really matter what 'most' of the (limited polling base of the forums) community wants when it's stuff that effects balance. A lot of people think it's a good idea only because of the benefit but don't see the bigger picture.
Most kids want to eat nothing but ice cream for dinner all the time but that's not a good idea, except to them because it's what they want.
So sigtric, it sounds like you're one of those crazy people who think the devs purposefully made 2-handed weapons overpowered, and purposefully compensated by giving a free monster-helm or 5-piece set bonus to 1-handed weapons in order to compete. Ridiculous assumption on several levels.
In pve magicka is king, they all use staffs. They do not need a boost.
In pvp 2h is by far king, most stamina builds use 2h because its simply just better, better skills, better passives.
Currently you can complete basically 95% of pve content with a 2h build, dw builds have slight more dps than 2h for stamina dps and therefore are preferred in end game trials which have dps races etc..
2h or staves do not need a buff.
Its easy enough to go 5/5/2 with both staffs or 2h now. Its choices and consequences. Live with them.
You've completely missed the point. Regarding the set completion point, it's completely irrelevant whether or not a certain weapon type is "good enough" or "most powerful". It doesn't matter if certain weapon types "do not need a boost."
Until you understand it, read the above statements over and over again. Most people against 2-handed weapons counting as 2 set items just don't get that - they have a Pavlovian response of screaming various "BUT BALANCE!!" garbage whenever this topic comes up. Really - it has NOTHING to do with balance. What ever balance problems exist between weapon types should be fixed regardless. The issue is strictly about allowing all weapon types to be equal in set completion - it would give us players more options, which should be balanced regardless.3 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Recently a called servant of the Nine did a poll, most of the community wants 2H to be 2 set pieces
Like I said I duel wield a lot, and tank a ton, but what really turns me off from 2H is lacking a set piece, 5/5/1, not 5/5/2
It doesn't really matter what 'most' of the (limited polling base of the forums) community wants when it's stuff that effects balance. A lot of people think it's a good idea only because of the benefit but don't see the bigger picture.
Most kids want to eat nothing but ice cream for dinner all the time but that's not a good idea, except to them because it's what they want.
So sigtric, it sounds like you're one of those crazy people who think the devs purposefully made 2-handed weapons overpowered, and purposefully compensated by giving a free monster-helm or 5-piece set bonus to 1-handed weapons in order to compete. Ridiculous assumption on several levels.
The only one here assuming anything is you.
The differences between weapons were designed this way on purpose. All I am saying is the devs are looking at the big picture, how it all fits together.
People crying about running 5/5/2 with 2h only see the "I want" portion.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]1 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Recently a called servant of the Nine did a poll, most of the community wants 2H to be 2 set pieces
Like I said I duel wield a lot, and tank a ton, but what really turns me off from 2H is lacking a set piece, 5/5/1, not 5/5/2
It doesn't really matter what 'most' of the (limited polling base of the forums) community wants when it's stuff that effects balance. A lot of people think it's a good idea only because of the benefit but don't see the bigger picture.
Most kids want to eat nothing but ice cream for dinner all the time but that's not a good idea, except to them because it's what they want.
So sigtric, it sounds like you're one of those crazy people who think the devs purposefully made 2-handed weapons overpowered, and purposefully compensated by giving a free monster-helm or 5-piece set bonus to 1-handed weapons in order to compete. Ridiculous assumption on several levels.
In pve magicka is king, they all use staffs. They do not need a boost.
In pvp 2h is by far king, most stamina builds use 2h because its simply just better, better skills, better passives.
Currently you can complete basically 95% of pve content with a 2h build, dw builds have slight more dps than 2h for stamina dps and therefore are preferred in end game trials which have dps races etc..
2h or staves do not need a buff.
Its easy enough to go 5/5/2 with both staffs or 2h now. Its choices and consequences. Live with them.
You've completely missed the point. Regarding the set completion point, it's completely irrelevant whether or not a certain weapon type is "good enough" or "most powerful". It doesn't matter if certain weapon types "do not need a boost."
Until you understand it, read the above statements over and over again. Most people against 2-handed weapons counting as 2 set items just don't get that - they have a Pavlovian response of screaming various "BUT BALANCE!!" garbage whenever this topic comes up. Really - it has NOTHING to do with balance. What ever balance problems exist between weapon types should be fixed regardless. The issue is strictly about allowing all weapon types to be equal in set completion - it would give us players more options, which should be balanced regardless.
The already are equal in set completion. One item=one item.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]0 -
tnanever✭✭✭Recently a called servant of the Nine did a poll, most of the community wants 2H to be 2 set pieces
Like I said I duel wield a lot, and tank a ton, but what really turns me off from 2H is lacking a set piece, 5/5/1, not 5/5/2
It doesn't really matter what 'most' of the (limited polling base of the forums) community wants when it's stuff that effects balance. A lot of people think it's a good idea only because of the benefit but don't see the bigger picture.
Most kids want to eat nothing but ice cream for dinner all the time but that's not a good idea, except to them because it's what they want.
So sigtric, it sounds like you're one of those crazy people who think the devs purposefully made 2-handed weapons overpowered, and purposefully compensated by giving a free monster-helm or 5-piece set bonus to 1-handed weapons in order to compete. Ridiculous assumption on several levels.
The only one here assuming anything is you.
The differences between weapons were designed this way on purpose. All I am saying is the devs are looking at the big picture, how it all fits together.
People crying about running 5/5/2 with 2h only see the "I want" portion.
You're wrong (as usual). They weren't designed this way on purpose.
As I keep having to explain to stevil, another person who doesn't use some basic reasoning skills:
If the devs really did want 1-handed weapons to have a whole extra 5-piece or monster helm set bonus, to just be on par with 2-handed weapons, it would mean (unless they are completely inept) they would have to consider the balance of all combinations of 5/5/2 vs 5/4/2 vs 5/(backbar 5)/2 vs 5/5/1 (among other setups). This is insane. There is no way they did this, and you'd be a fool for thinking they did.
What the devs did is obvious - they tried to balance each weapon type against each other weapon type. It just so happens that as a consequence of 2-handed weapons only counting as one item, some weapon types aren't as capable as others in completing sets. Yes, it's that simple.0 -
tnanever✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Recently a called servant of the Nine did a poll, most of the community wants 2H to be 2 set pieces
Like I said I duel wield a lot, and tank a ton, but what really turns me off from 2H is lacking a set piece, 5/5/1, not 5/5/2
It doesn't really matter what 'most' of the (limited polling base of the forums) community wants when it's stuff that effects balance. A lot of people think it's a good idea only because of the benefit but don't see the bigger picture.
Most kids want to eat nothing but ice cream for dinner all the time but that's not a good idea, except to them because it's what they want.
So sigtric, it sounds like you're one of those crazy people who think the devs purposefully made 2-handed weapons overpowered, and purposefully compensated by giving a free monster-helm or 5-piece set bonus to 1-handed weapons in order to compete. Ridiculous assumption on several levels.
In pve magicka is king, they all use staffs. They do not need a boost.
In pvp 2h is by far king, most stamina builds use 2h because its simply just better, better skills, better passives.
Currently you can complete basically 95% of pve content with a 2h build, dw builds have slight more dps than 2h for stamina dps and therefore are preferred in end game trials which have dps races etc..
2h or staves do not need a buff.
Its easy enough to go 5/5/2 with both staffs or 2h now. Its choices and consequences. Live with them.
You've completely missed the point. Regarding the set completion point, it's completely irrelevant whether or not a certain weapon type is "good enough" or "most powerful". It doesn't matter if certain weapon types "do not need a boost."
Until you understand it, read the above statements over and over again. Most people against 2-handed weapons counting as 2 set items just don't get that - they have a Pavlovian response of screaming various "BUT BALANCE!!" garbage whenever this topic comes up. Really - it has NOTHING to do with balance. What ever balance problems exist between weapon types should be fixed regardless. The issue is strictly about allowing all weapon types to be equal in set completion - it would give us players more options, which should be balanced regardless.
The already are equal in set completion. One item=one item.
Wrong. One item = one slot....EXCEPT for two-handed weapons, which in turn suffer a set-completion penalty. It's amazing you can't see this basic fact.0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Recently a called servant of the Nine did a poll, most of the community wants 2H to be 2 set pieces
Like I said I duel wield a lot, and tank a ton, but what really turns me off from 2H is lacking a set piece, 5/5/1, not 5/5/2
It doesn't really matter what 'most' of the (limited polling base of the forums) community wants when it's stuff that effects balance. A lot of people think it's a good idea only because of the benefit but don't see the bigger picture.
Most kids want to eat nothing but ice cream for dinner all the time but that's not a good idea, except to them because it's what they want.
So sigtric, it sounds like you're one of those crazy people who think the devs purposefully made 2-handed weapons overpowered, and purposefully compensated by giving a free monster-helm or 5-piece set bonus to 1-handed weapons in order to compete. Ridiculous assumption on several levels.
In pve magicka is king, they all use staffs. They do not need a boost.
In pvp 2h is by far king, most stamina builds use 2h because its simply just better, better skills, better passives.
Currently you can complete basically 95% of pve content with a 2h build, dw builds have slight more dps than 2h for stamina dps and therefore are preferred in end game trials which have dps races etc..
2h or staves do not need a buff.
Its easy enough to go 5/5/2 with both staffs or 2h now. Its choices and consequences. Live with them.
You've completely missed the point. Regarding the set completion point, it's completely irrelevant whether or not a certain weapon type is "good enough" or "most powerful". It doesn't matter if certain weapon types "do not need a boost."
Until you understand it, read the above statements over and over again. Most people against 2-handed weapons counting as 2 set items just don't get that - they have a Pavlovian response of screaming various "BUT BALANCE!!" garbage whenever this topic comes up. Really - it has NOTHING to do with balance. What ever balance problems exist between weapon types should be fixed regardless. The issue is strictly about allowing all weapon types to be equal in set completion - it would give us players more options, which should be balanced regardless.
The already are equal in set completion. One item=one item.
Wrong. One item = one slot....EXCEPT for two-handed weapons, which in turn suffer a set-completion penalty. It's amazing you can't see this basic fact.
Sometimes I wonder what it's like...
1 item = 1 item. Tooltip doesn't say slots filled. It says Items. That's a basic fact.
It's real easy to believe anything when you think you are right, I get it. But I'll take the REAL fact that they've a) commented on this before: WAI and wont be changing it b) are the ones actually working on the data, and see the logs that show the whole picture. Your popping off trying to demean people who disagree wont change anything for me.
Would it be nice if my double staff MDK set up gave me 5/5/2? Sure. Doesn't mean it's right.
Your basic facts are irrelevant.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]0 -
tnanever✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Recently a called servant of the Nine did a poll, most of the community wants 2H to be 2 set pieces
Like I said I duel wield a lot, and tank a ton, but what really turns me off from 2H is lacking a set piece, 5/5/1, not 5/5/2
It doesn't really matter what 'most' of the (limited polling base of the forums) community wants when it's stuff that effects balance. A lot of people think it's a good idea only because of the benefit but don't see the bigger picture.
Most kids want to eat nothing but ice cream for dinner all the time but that's not a good idea, except to them because it's what they want.
So sigtric, it sounds like you're one of those crazy people who think the devs purposefully made 2-handed weapons overpowered, and purposefully compensated by giving a free monster-helm or 5-piece set bonus to 1-handed weapons in order to compete. Ridiculous assumption on several levels.
In pve magicka is king, they all use staffs. They do not need a boost.
In pvp 2h is by far king, most stamina builds use 2h because its simply just better, better skills, better passives.
Currently you can complete basically 95% of pve content with a 2h build, dw builds have slight more dps than 2h for stamina dps and therefore are preferred in end game trials which have dps races etc..
2h or staves do not need a buff.
Its easy enough to go 5/5/2 with both staffs or 2h now. Its choices and consequences. Live with them.
You've completely missed the point. Regarding the set completion point, it's completely irrelevant whether or not a certain weapon type is "good enough" or "most powerful". It doesn't matter if certain weapon types "do not need a boost."
Until you understand it, read the above statements over and over again. Most people against 2-handed weapons counting as 2 set items just don't get that - they have a Pavlovian response of screaming various "BUT BALANCE!!" garbage whenever this topic comes up. Really - it has NOTHING to do with balance. What ever balance problems exist between weapon types should be fixed regardless. The issue is strictly about allowing all weapon types to be equal in set completion - it would give us players more options, which should be balanced regardless.
The already are equal in set completion. One item=one item.
Wrong. One item = one slot....EXCEPT for two-handed weapons, which in turn suffer a set-completion penalty. It's amazing you can't see this basic fact.
Sometimes I wonder what it's like...
1 item = 1 item. Tooltip doesn't say slots filled. It says Items. That's a basic fact.
It's real easy to believe anything when you think you are right, I get it. But I'll take the REAL fact that they've a) commented on this before: WAI and wont be changing it b) are the ones actually working on the data, and see the logs that show the whole picture. Your popping off trying to demean people who disagree wont change anything for me.
Would it be nice if my double staff MDK set up gave me 5/5/2? Sure. Doesn't mean it's right.
Your basic facts are irrelevant.
Uh yeah sigtric, one item is one item. Nice tautology there, detective. Nobody cares, because it's completely irrelevant. What's relevant is the fact that 2-handed weapons have a slot penalty for set completion.
So you've resorted to ignoring all facts and logic, and bringing up irrelevant topics like balance. Sad.
0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Recently a called servant of the Nine did a poll, most of the community wants 2H to be 2 set pieces
Like I said I duel wield a lot, and tank a ton, but what really turns me off from 2H is lacking a set piece, 5/5/1, not 5/5/2
It doesn't really matter what 'most' of the (limited polling base of the forums) community wants when it's stuff that effects balance. A lot of people think it's a good idea only because of the benefit but don't see the bigger picture.
Most kids want to eat nothing but ice cream for dinner all the time but that's not a good idea, except to them because it's what they want.
So sigtric, it sounds like you're one of those crazy people who think the devs purposefully made 2-handed weapons overpowered, and purposefully compensated by giving a free monster-helm or 5-piece set bonus to 1-handed weapons in order to compete. Ridiculous assumption on several levels.
In pve magicka is king, they all use staffs. They do not need a boost.
In pvp 2h is by far king, most stamina builds use 2h because its simply just better, better skills, better passives.
Currently you can complete basically 95% of pve content with a 2h build, dw builds have slight more dps than 2h for stamina dps and therefore are preferred in end game trials which have dps races etc..
2h or staves do not need a buff.
Its easy enough to go 5/5/2 with both staffs or 2h now. Its choices and consequences. Live with them.
You've completely missed the point. Regarding the set completion point, it's completely irrelevant whether or not a certain weapon type is "good enough" or "most powerful". It doesn't matter if certain weapon types "do not need a boost."
Until you understand it, read the above statements over and over again. Most people against 2-handed weapons counting as 2 set items just don't get that - they have a Pavlovian response of screaming various "BUT BALANCE!!" garbage whenever this topic comes up. Really - it has NOTHING to do with balance. What ever balance problems exist between weapon types should be fixed regardless. The issue is strictly about allowing all weapon types to be equal in set completion - it would give us players more options, which should be balanced regardless.
The already are equal in set completion. One item=one item.
Wrong. One item = one slot....EXCEPT for two-handed weapons, which in turn suffer a set-completion penalty. It's amazing you can't see this basic fact.
Sometimes I wonder what it's like...
1 item = 1 item. Tooltip doesn't say slots filled. It says Items. That's a basic fact.
It's real easy to believe anything when you think you are right, I get it. But I'll take the REAL fact that they've a) commented on this before: WAI and wont be changing it b) are the ones actually working on the data, and see the logs that show the whole picture. Your popping off trying to demean people who disagree wont change anything for me.
Would it be nice if my double staff MDK set up gave me 5/5/2? Sure. Doesn't mean it's right.
Your basic facts are irrelevant.
Uh yeah sigtric, one item is one item. Nice tautology there, detective. Nobody cares, because it's completely irrelevant. What's relevant is the fact that 2-handed weapons have a slot penalty for set completion.
So you've resorted to ignoring all facts and logic, and bringing up irrelevant topics like balance. Sad.
lol ok baby
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]1 -
tnanever✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Recently a called servant of the Nine did a poll, most of the community wants 2H to be 2 set pieces
Like I said I duel wield a lot, and tank a ton, but what really turns me off from 2H is lacking a set piece, 5/5/1, not 5/5/2
It doesn't really matter what 'most' of the (limited polling base of the forums) community wants when it's stuff that effects balance. A lot of people think it's a good idea only because of the benefit but don't see the bigger picture.
Most kids want to eat nothing but ice cream for dinner all the time but that's not a good idea, except to them because it's what they want.
So sigtric, it sounds like you're one of those crazy people who think the devs purposefully made 2-handed weapons overpowered, and purposefully compensated by giving a free monster-helm or 5-piece set bonus to 1-handed weapons in order to compete. Ridiculous assumption on several levels.
In pve magicka is king, they all use staffs. They do not need a boost.
In pvp 2h is by far king, most stamina builds use 2h because its simply just better, better skills, better passives.
Currently you can complete basically 95% of pve content with a 2h build, dw builds have slight more dps than 2h for stamina dps and therefore are preferred in end game trials which have dps races etc..
2h or staves do not need a buff.
Its easy enough to go 5/5/2 with both staffs or 2h now. Its choices and consequences. Live with them.
You've completely missed the point. Regarding the set completion point, it's completely irrelevant whether or not a certain weapon type is "good enough" or "most powerful". It doesn't matter if certain weapon types "do not need a boost."
Until you understand it, read the above statements over and over again. Most people against 2-handed weapons counting as 2 set items just don't get that - they have a Pavlovian response of screaming various "BUT BALANCE!!" garbage whenever this topic comes up. Really - it has NOTHING to do with balance. What ever balance problems exist between weapon types should be fixed regardless. The issue is strictly about allowing all weapon types to be equal in set completion - it would give us players more options, which should be balanced regardless.
The already are equal in set completion. One item=one item.
Wrong. One item = one slot....EXCEPT for two-handed weapons, which in turn suffer a set-completion penalty. It's amazing you can't see this basic fact.
Sometimes I wonder what it's like...
1 item = 1 item. Tooltip doesn't say slots filled. It says Items. That's a basic fact.
It's real easy to believe anything when you think you are right, I get it. But I'll take the REAL fact that they've a) commented on this before: WAI and wont be changing it b) are the ones actually working on the data, and see the logs that show the whole picture. Your popping off trying to demean people who disagree wont change anything for me.
Would it be nice if my double staff MDK set up gave me 5/5/2? Sure. Doesn't mean it's right.
Your basic facts are irrelevant.
Uh yeah sigtric, one item is one item. Nice tautology there, detective. Nobody cares, because it's completely irrelevant. What's relevant is the fact that 2-handed weapons have a slot penalty for set completion.
So you've resorted to ignoring all facts and logic, and bringing up irrelevant topics like balance. Sad.
lol ok baby
Oh, now you're calling people "baby" - LOL. Desperation. Alright sigtric, do yourself a favor and try to redeem yourself by addressing the main argument I've made (I'm quoting from just a few posts ago, in case your attention span is as poor as your debate ability):
If the devs really did want 1-handed weapons to have a whole extra 5-piece or monster helm set bonus, to just be on par with 2-handed weapons, it would mean (unless they are completely inept) they would have to consider the balance of all combinations of 5/5/2 vs 5/4/2 vs 5/(backbar 5)/2 vs 5/5/1 (among other setups). This is insane. There is no way they did this, and you'd be a fool for thinking they did.
What the devs did is obvious - they tried to balance each weapon type against each other weapon type. It just so happens that as a consequence of 2-handed weapons only counting as one item, some weapon types aren't as capable as others in completing sets. Yes, it's that simple.
Address it. Show the world why you think the devs did account for all of that instead of simply balancing weapons against each other. You have one chance.0 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Recently a called servant of the Nine did a poll, most of the community wants 2H to be 2 set pieces
Like I said I duel wield a lot, and tank a ton, but what really turns me off from 2H is lacking a set piece, 5/5/1, not 5/5/2
It doesn't really matter what 'most' of the (limited polling base of the forums) community wants when it's stuff that effects balance. A lot of people think it's a good idea only because of the benefit but don't see the bigger picture.
Most kids want to eat nothing but ice cream for dinner all the time but that's not a good idea, except to them because it's what they want.
So sigtric, it sounds like you're one of those crazy people who think the devs purposefully made 2-handed weapons overpowered, and purposefully compensated by giving a free monster-helm or 5-piece set bonus to 1-handed weapons in order to compete. Ridiculous assumption on several levels.
In pve magicka is king, they all use staffs. They do not need a boost.
In pvp 2h is by far king, most stamina builds use 2h because its simply just better, better skills, better passives.
Currently you can complete basically 95% of pve content with a 2h build, dw builds have slight more dps than 2h for stamina dps and therefore are preferred in end game trials which have dps races etc..
2h or staves do not need a buff.
Its easy enough to go 5/5/2 with both staffs or 2h now. Its choices and consequences. Live with them.
You've completely missed the point. Regarding the set completion point, it's completely irrelevant whether or not a certain weapon type is "good enough" or "most powerful". It doesn't matter if certain weapon types "do not need a boost."
Until you understand it, read the above statements over and over again. Most people against 2-handed weapons counting as 2 set items just don't get that - they have a Pavlovian response of screaming various "BUT BALANCE!!" garbage whenever this topic comes up. Really - it has NOTHING to do with balance. What ever balance problems exist between weapon types should be fixed regardless. The issue is strictly about allowing all weapon types to be equal in set completion - it would give us players more options, which should be balanced regardless.
The already are equal in set completion. One item=one item.
Wrong. One item = one slot....EXCEPT for two-handed weapons, which in turn suffer a set-completion penalty. It's amazing you can't see this basic fact.
Sometimes I wonder what it's like...
1 item = 1 item. Tooltip doesn't say slots filled. It says Items. That's a basic fact.
It's real easy to believe anything when you think you are right, I get it. But I'll take the REAL fact that they've a) commented on this before: WAI and wont be changing it b) are the ones actually working on the data, and see the logs that show the whole picture. Your popping off trying to demean people who disagree wont change anything for me.
Would it be nice if my double staff MDK set up gave me 5/5/2? Sure. Doesn't mean it's right.
Your basic facts are irrelevant.
Uh yeah sigtric, one item is one item. Nice tautology there, detective. Nobody cares, because it's completely irrelevant. What's relevant is the fact that 2-handed weapons have a slot penalty for set completion.
So you've resorted to ignoring all facts and logic, and bringing up irrelevant topics like balance. Sad.
lol ok baby
Oh, now you're calling people "baby" - LOL. Desperation. Alright sigtric, do yourself a favor and try to redeem yourself by addressing the main argument I've made (I'm quoting from just a few posts ago, in case your attention span is as poor as your debate ability):
If the devs really did want 1-handed weapons to have a whole extra 5-piece or monster helm set bonus, to just be on par with 2-handed weapons, it would mean (unless they are completely inept) they would have to consider the balance of all combinations of 5/5/2 vs 5/4/2 vs 5/(backbar 5)/2 vs 5/5/1 (among other setups). This is insane. There is no way they did this, and you'd be a fool for thinking they did.
What the devs did is obvious - they tried to balance each weapon type against each other weapon type. It just so happens that as a consequence of 2-handed weapons only counting as one item, some weapon types aren't as capable as others in completing sets. Yes, it's that simple.
Address it. Show the world why you think the devs did account for all of that instead of simply balancing weapons against each other. You have one chance.
If you're dense enough to believe balance is irrelevant regarding a change that would affect combat? Then no. Not playing your game. You win.
Edited by Sigtric on 14 June 2017 23:36
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
Show Me Your Dunmer
[/center]0 -
tnanever✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Recently a called servant of the Nine did a poll, most of the community wants 2H to be 2 set pieces
Like I said I duel wield a lot, and tank a ton, but what really turns me off from 2H is lacking a set piece, 5/5/1, not 5/5/2
It doesn't really matter what 'most' of the (limited polling base of the forums) community wants when it's stuff that effects balance. A lot of people think it's a good idea only because of the benefit but don't see the bigger picture.
Most kids want to eat nothing but ice cream for dinner all the time but that's not a good idea, except to them because it's what they want.
So sigtric, it sounds like you're one of those crazy people who think the devs purposefully made 2-handed weapons overpowered, and purposefully compensated by giving a free monster-helm or 5-piece set bonus to 1-handed weapons in order to compete. Ridiculous assumption on several levels.
In pve magicka is king, they all use staffs. They do not need a boost.
In pvp 2h is by far king, most stamina builds use 2h because its simply just better, better skills, better passives.
Currently you can complete basically 95% of pve content with a 2h build, dw builds have slight more dps than 2h for stamina dps and therefore are preferred in end game trials which have dps races etc..
2h or staves do not need a buff.
Its easy enough to go 5/5/2 with both staffs or 2h now. Its choices and consequences. Live with them.
You've completely missed the point. Regarding the set completion point, it's completely irrelevant whether or not a certain weapon type is "good enough" or "most powerful". It doesn't matter if certain weapon types "do not need a boost."
Until you understand it, read the above statements over and over again. Most people against 2-handed weapons counting as 2 set items just don't get that - they have a Pavlovian response of screaming various "BUT BALANCE!!" garbage whenever this topic comes up. Really - it has NOTHING to do with balance. What ever balance problems exist between weapon types should be fixed regardless. The issue is strictly about allowing all weapon types to be equal in set completion - it would give us players more options, which should be balanced regardless.
The already are equal in set completion. One item=one item.
Wrong. One item = one slot....EXCEPT for two-handed weapons, which in turn suffer a set-completion penalty. It's amazing you can't see this basic fact.
Sometimes I wonder what it's like...
1 item = 1 item. Tooltip doesn't say slots filled. It says Items. That's a basic fact.
It's real easy to believe anything when you think you are right, I get it. But I'll take the REAL fact that they've a) commented on this before: WAI and wont be changing it b) are the ones actually working on the data, and see the logs that show the whole picture. Your popping off trying to demean people who disagree wont change anything for me.
Would it be nice if my double staff MDK set up gave me 5/5/2? Sure. Doesn't mean it's right.
Your basic facts are irrelevant.
Uh yeah sigtric, one item is one item. Nice tautology there, detective. Nobody cares, because it's completely irrelevant. What's relevant is the fact that 2-handed weapons have a slot penalty for set completion.
So you've resorted to ignoring all facts and logic, and bringing up irrelevant topics like balance. Sad.
lol ok baby
Oh, now you're calling people "baby" - LOL. Desperation. Alright sigtric, do yourself a favor and try to redeem yourself by addressing the main argument I've made (I'm quoting from just a few posts ago, in case your attention span is as poor as your debate ability):
If the devs really did want 1-handed weapons to have a whole extra 5-piece or monster helm set bonus, to just be on par with 2-handed weapons, it would mean (unless they are completely inept) they would have to consider the balance of all combinations of 5/5/2 vs 5/4/2 vs 5/(backbar 5)/2 vs 5/5/1 (among other setups). This is insane. There is no way they did this, and you'd be a fool for thinking they did.
What the devs did is obvious - they tried to balance each weapon type against each other weapon type. It just so happens that as a consequence of 2-handed weapons only counting as one item, some weapon types aren't as capable as others in completing sets. Yes, it's that simple.
Address it. Show the world why you think the devs did account for all of that instead of simply balancing weapons against each other. You have one chance.
If you're dense enough to believe balance is irrelevant regarding a change that would affect combat? Then no. Not playing your game. You win.
Thanks for demonstrating how ignorant you are. Nobody said balance is irrelevant to combat. NOBODY.
I'm feeling very generous. I'm allowing one more try. I'll even give you a hint - balance has nothing to do with allowing players to complete sets equally, no matter which weapons they choose. Whatever balance problems that may arise should be dealt with regardless - it's literally not part of the topic.
Now take advantage of my charity. Address the main argument that I've posted. You and stevil still have not even remotely addressed the topic - just shouted noise about irrelevant balance concerns.0 -
MakoFore✭✭✭✭✭
✭they have buffed 2hand weapons to compensate for this- you're not missing out on any damage guys. the highest dps attainable in the game is- a destro staff. and the highest single target burst damage in the game is a 2hand great sword.
each weapon has its strengths and weaknesses- which is how it should be- making it so every weapon is equal would be boring.0 -
tnanever✭✭✭they have buffed 2hand weapons to compensate for this- you're not missing out on any damage guys. the highest dps attainable in the game is- a destro staff. and the highest single target burst damage in the game is a 2hand great sword.
each weapon has its strengths and weaknesses- which is how it should be- making it so every weapon is equal would be boring.
"...making it so every weapon is equal would be boring."
I think pretty much everyone agrees on that, but that's not the point. For all the people having trouble with this topic, I'll try to distill it down (stevil and sigtric - pay attention):
It's MORE FUN to have a lot of options for whatever weapons and class and armor types you pick. It's LESS FUN to be limited in options just because you like using 2-handed weapons. This is clearly a design flaw, if the PURPOSE OF A VIDEO GAME IS TO HAVE FUN.
IF there happens to be balance issues by allowing all weapon types to complete sets equally, then fix them. That's it. There is nothing complicated about this. There are no glaring balance issues that can't be fixed. Anyone against this idea is against this game being more fun. There is no downside.0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭murdomac101 wrote: »but this game is about being able to play any style, any way, with any race. but 2hw not counting as a two set piece means players who like to use these are limited in terms of sets and either have to change their builds, or adopt DW/1HS in order to make sets work.
"being able to play any style, any way, with any race. " check! can do.
"being able to play any style, any way, with any race and any choices without consequences".nope, not check.
your choices matter. ]
that means they should all be ones that produce some good things and either some bad things or the loss of other good things.
I mean, yes if you choose 2h you dont get certain build options... just like if you choose selenes you dont get molag kena... or should we be able to put second and third and such monster pairs in any of our slots?
the current set issues make it so that different set options are available or good or better depending on weapons chosen and the playtest and live play since day one has been with that in play.
Wrong again, stevil. None of your posts against 2-handed = 2 set items make any sense, because your argument is essentially:
"Dual wield and 1-hand/shield are SO WEAK, that they need another 5-piece set bonus just to stay balanced with 2-handed weapons."
Over and over I have to point out that this reasoning in nonsensical. In your mind, you've invented this fiction where the devs have intentionally balanced the thousands of set combinations of 1-handed vs 2-handed weapons, instead of simply balancing the weapon types against each other.
Can you just stop posting your bad argument? If you're really against 2-handed weapons counting as 2 set items, then post something legitimate. Perhaps argue that you like how different weapons types have different set completion strategies, and that the game should be balanced along these lines. Just stop insinuating that 2-handed weapons were purposefully made stronger and that all set combinations were analyzed to balance them for 1-handed weapons. Ridiculous.
I must say your choice to focus on trying to make this personal. If you have to reinvent my reasoning before offering dissent to it, that says something.
The person trying to fabricate this test vs thousands of combo nonsense is you as a straw man to attack.
As for the rest of your comment, just recording of points already made.
Um no, stevil. I'm not reinventing anything. You've stated several times that your concern is that 2-handed weapons would be unbalanced if they were treated equally as 1-handed weapons for set completion. Go check your own post history.
Regarding the balance of thousands of combinations - There is no straw man, because that's the only logical way you could present your argument. Your only defense would be a claim of insanity, and that your argument was completely irrational to begin with.
Again, straw man.
You are the one bringing up the tesing of thousands of combos, not me.
My point is that the playing and testing since this difference was first put in place and ongoing has been done with that set count difference. Your fanciful thousands of combinations round robin test scheme being necessary is a fajke goal post you keep thrusting into the arguments hoping it can hide that fact.
looking at another attempt to do that above you say:
"If the devs really did want 1-handed weapons to have a whole extra 5-piece or monster helm set bonus, to just be on par with 2-handed weapons, it would mean (unless they are completely inept) they would have to consider the balance of all combinations of 5/5/2 vs 5/4/2 vs 5/(backbar 5)/2 vs 5/5/1 (among other setups). This is insane. There is no way they did this, and you'd be a fool for thinking they did."
nobody but you is imagining this thousands of tests notion either as having been done or as being necessary for being "ept". it is so hilarious to see you invent this claim then struggle so mightily to ridicule those you try and paint with it.
that is not how testing in complex systems in games works a lot of the time - likely most. its not needed and is overly time consuming for little gain.
"What the devs did is obvious - they tried to balance each weapon type against each other weapon type. It just so happens that as a consequence of 2-handed weapons only counting as one item, some weapon types aren't as capable as others in completing sets. Yes, it's that simple."
See there is the foolish belief. You pretty much imply these devs just ignored set bonus mismatches when these weapons were put in play, were tweaked, were tested and changed many time over since the game began. that is absurd and here is why... all their test and live play data since this was put in effect has included numbers and results that included set-count difference.
When they said two hand was underperforming and gave it a boost, that was not done with a solo-naked comparison between 2h vs dw without set count difference, it was based off play with sets and those results.
You know this and that is why you keep throwing up this thousands of tests needed nonsense as a smoke screen.
Straw man, misdirection, pay attention to the flashy flashy and not the results with a tad of personal ridicule thrown in for good measure - same old what we have come to expect.
2H closed the gap some with morrowind in the shoebox of content where it was a little behind. it still remains very strong and even superior vs dw in other places of content outside that shoebox in that closet. it does not need a diversity killing set-bonus buff on top of that.
You may not like that but, hey, that is your choice and like in the game, choices have consequences.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."1 -
Sigtric✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Recently a called servant of the Nine did a poll, most of the community wants 2H to be 2 set pieces
Like I said I duel wield a lot, and tank a ton, but what really turns me off from 2H is lacking a set piece, 5/5/1, not 5/5/2
It doesn't really matter what 'most' of the (limited polling base of the forums) community wants when it's stuff that effects balance. A lot of people think it's a good idea only because of the benefit but don't see the bigger picture.
Most kids want to eat nothing but ice cream for dinner all the time but that's not a good idea, except to them because it's what they want.
So sigtric, it sounds like you're one of those crazy people who think the devs purposefully made 2-handed weapons overpowered, and purposefully compensated by giving a free monster-helm or 5-piece set bonus to 1-handed weapons in order to compete. Ridiculous assumption on several levels.
In pve magicka is king, they all use staffs. They do not need a boost.
In pvp 2h is by far king, most stamina builds use 2h because its simply just better, better skills, better passives.
Currently you can complete basically 95% of pve content with a 2h build, dw builds have slight more dps than 2h for stamina dps and therefore are preferred in end game trials which have dps races etc..
2h or staves do not need a buff.
Its easy enough to go 5/5/2 with both staffs or 2h now. Its choices and consequences. Live with them.
You've completely missed the point. Regarding the set completion point, it's completely irrelevant whether or not a certain weapon type is "good enough" or "most powerful". It doesn't matter if certain weapon types "do not need a boost."
Until you understand it, read the above statements over and over again. Most people against 2-handed weapons counting as 2 set items just don't get that - they have a Pavlovian response of screaming various "BUT BALANCE!!" garbage whenever this topic comes up. Really - it has NOTHING to do with balance. What ever balance problems exist between weapon types should be fixed regardless. The issue is strictly about allowing all weapon types to be equal in set completion - it would give us players more options, which should be balanced regardless.
The already are equal in set completion. One item=one item.
Wrong. One item = one slot....EXCEPT for two-handed weapons, which in turn suffer a set-completion penalty. It's amazing you can't see this basic fact.
Sometimes I wonder what it's like...
1 item = 1 item. Tooltip doesn't say slots filled. It says Items. That's a basic fact.
It's real easy to believe anything when you think you are right, I get it. But I'll take the REAL fact that they've a) commented on this before: WAI and wont be changing it b) are the ones actually working on the data, and see the logs that show the whole picture. Your popping off trying to demean people who disagree wont change anything for me.
Would it be nice if my double staff MDK set up gave me 5/5/2? Sure. Doesn't mean it's right.
Your basic facts are irrelevant.
Uh yeah sigtric, one item is one item. Nice tautology there, detective. Nobody cares, because it's completely irrelevant. What's relevant is the fact that 2-handed weapons have a slot penalty for set completion.
So you've resorted to ignoring all facts and logic, and bringing up irrelevant topics like balance. Sad.
lol ok baby
Oh, now you're calling people "baby" - LOL. Desperation. Alright sigtric, do yourself a favor and try to redeem yourself by addressing the main argument I've made (I'm quoting from just a few posts ago, in case your attention span is as poor as your debate ability):
If the devs really did want 1-handed weapons to have a whole extra 5-piece or monster helm set bonus, to just be on par with 2-handed weapons, it would mean (unless they are completely inept) they would have to consider the balance of all combinations of 5/5/2 vs 5/4/2 vs 5/(backbar 5)/2 vs 5/5/1 (among other setups). This is insane. There is no way they did this, and you'd be a fool for thinking they did.
What the devs did is obvious - they tried to balance each weapon type against each other weapon type. It just so happens that as a consequence of 2-handed weapons only counting as one item, some weapon types aren't as capable as others in completing sets. Yes, it's that simple.
Address it. Show the world why you think the devs did account for all of that instead of simply balancing weapons against each other. You have one chance.
If you're dense enough to believe balance is irrelevant regarding a change that would affect combat? Then no. Not playing your game. You win.
Thanks for demonstrating how ignorant you are. Nobody said balance is irrelevant to combat. NOBODY.
I'm feeling very generous. I'm allowing one more try. I'll even give you a hint - balance has nothing to do with allowing players to complete sets equally, no matter which weapons they choose. Whatever balance problems that may arise should be dealt with regardless - it's literally not part of the topic.
Now take advantage of my charity. Address the main argument that I've posted. You and stevil still have not even remotely addressed the topic - just shouted noise about irrelevant balance concerns.
You've twice now said balance is irrelevant. You are fixated on what you what and fixated on what is keeping you from obtaining it. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall because you refuse to see past your nose.
As I stated, I'll be taking the fact that the devs have said WAI and wont be changing it in the past, plus the fact that they know the ins and outs of this game better than you into my consideration. You can keep your 'charity'.
Stormproof: Vibeke - 50 EP mDragonknight | Savi Dreloth - 50 EP Magsorc | Sadi Dreloth - 50 EP Magblade | Sigtric Stormaxe - 50 EP Stamsorc | Valora Dreloth - 50 EP Magplar | Sigtric the Unbearable 50 EP Stam Warden
Scrub: Chews-on-Beavers - 50 EP DK Tank | Vera the Wild - 50 EP magicka Warden | Sigtric the Axe - 50 EP Dragonknight Crafter | Sigtric the Blade - 50 EP Lost Nightblade | Sigtric the Savage - 50 EP magicka Templar | Vibeka Shadowblade - 50 Ep Stealthy Ganky Nightblade |
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STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭leepalmer95 wrote: »Recently a called servant of the Nine did a poll, most of the community wants 2H to be 2 set pieces
Like I said I duel wield a lot, and tank a ton, but what really turns me off from 2H is lacking a set piece, 5/5/1, not 5/5/2
It doesn't really matter what 'most' of the (limited polling base of the forums) community wants when it's stuff that effects balance. A lot of people think it's a good idea only because of the benefit but don't see the bigger picture.
Most kids want to eat nothing but ice cream for dinner all the time but that's not a good idea, except to them because it's what they want.
So sigtric, it sounds like you're one of those crazy people who think the devs purposefully made 2-handed weapons overpowered, and purposefully compensated by giving a free monster-helm or 5-piece set bonus to 1-handed weapons in order to compete. Ridiculous assumption on several levels.
In pve magicka is king, they all use staffs. They do not need a boost.
In pvp 2h is by far king, most stamina builds use 2h because its simply just better, better skills, better passives.
Currently you can complete basically 95% of pve content with a 2h build, dw builds have slight more dps than 2h for stamina dps and therefore are preferred in end game trials which have dps races etc..
2h or staves do not need a buff.
Its easy enough to go 5/5/2 with both staffs or 2h now. Its choices and consequences. Live with them.
You've completely missed the point. Regarding the set completion point, it's completely irrelevant whether or not a certain weapon type is "good enough" or "most powerful". It doesn't matter if certain weapon types "do not need a boost."
Until you understand it, read the above statements over and over again. Most people against 2-handed weapons counting as 2 set items just don't get that - they have a Pavlovian response of screaming various "BUT BALANCE!!" garbage whenever this topic comes up. Really - it has NOTHING to do with balance. What ever balance problems exist between weapon types should be fixed regardless. The issue is strictly about allowing all weapon types to be equal in set completion - it would give us players more options, which should be balanced regardless.
The already are equal in set completion. One item=one item.
Wrong. One item = one slot....EXCEPT for two-handed weapons, which in turn suffer a set-completion penalty. It's amazing you can't see this basic fact.
Sometimes I wonder what it's like...
1 item = 1 item. Tooltip doesn't say slots filled. It says Items. That's a basic fact.
It's real easy to believe anything when you think you are right, I get it. But I'll take the REAL fact that they've a) commented on this before: WAI and wont be changing it b) are the ones actually working on the data, and see the logs that show the whole picture. Your popping off trying to demean people who disagree wont change anything for me.
Would it be nice if my double staff MDK set up gave me 5/5/2? Sure. Doesn't mean it's right.
Your basic facts are irrelevant.
Uh yeah sigtric, one item is one item. Nice tautology there, detective. Nobody cares, because it's completely irrelevant. What's relevant is the fact that 2-handed weapons have a slot penalty for set completion.
So you've resorted to ignoring all facts and logic, and bringing up irrelevant topics like balance. Sad.
in one post dismisses balance and item count vs set count (you know how the rest of the item-set-count system works) as irrelevant to the discussion and make the obviously false claim that nobody cares about the latter?
Likely not a record for "everything that is contrary is to be dismissed" argumentation there.
Exactly what some have come to expect to.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
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