ESO Morrowind Patch will be the best thing to happen to ESO.
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Tholian1✭✭✭✭✭
✭lordrichter wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »@starkerealm - I have never mastered animation cancelling which is probably why my DPS is only 15-16k and I do run out of resources on extended solo fights. I think I will be noticing a difference. Not seeing how people will not notice that some of their skills will cost more and their recovery is poor.
You might be surprised. Yes, TTK could be longer for boss fights, and if you run out of resources now, you will run out of resources after Morrowind. You are likely already dealing with this issue, when it comes up. I know that I do.
I really don't like animation canceling, or 2 bar rotations. It just seems like a lot of work just to kill a monster in 3 seconds instead of 5 seconds. To really get good at it, I feel I need to do it with every combat (practice makes perfect) and I just can't seem to force myself to do it when the return isn't that great.
The thing for me is that I am already built more for sustain. I am fine if it takes me 10 seconds at 15k DPS to kill something instead of 5 seconds at 30k DPS. My critical metric is that they die before I do, and whatever DPS and TTK that I need to accomplish that is good enough.
So instead of it taking me 3 minutes to take down the target dummy, it will take me 6 minutes.
Animation canceling vs not using Animation canceling, which is what I was talking about? Yes, this is what I see on Live right now.
Lol no. 3 minutes to kill the target dummy on live vs. 6 minutes to kill it after morrowind patch without any animation cancelling, because I will have to change my build from damage to sustain and be slowed down even more due to heavy attacking. Just a guess since I can't test the PTS.
How much more punishing do the fights need to be for a mediocre NB?
PS4 Pro NA2 -
Megabear✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm looking forward to it!Guide to making $$$ in Tamriel: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/370618/guide-to-making-gold-in-eso/p1?new=1
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Dun-and-Dunmer - (M) Dragon Knight/Male/Dunmer
What Can Go Wong - (S) Night Blade/Male/Bosmer
Izaer - (M) Templar/Male/Breton0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Moloch1514 wrote: »For those of us who play solo or duo vet dungeons, this patch will mostly result in less fun. Sure, I'll enjoy the Morrowind overland content, but now I'll shrug at the thought of grinding pledges due to the long, repetitive boss fights. Yes, I could get 2 more people in there that I don't know, but I still believe in the core of Elder Scrolls: play how you want!
Content is intended to be harder, of that there is no debate. It is the direct effect of doing these changes. If your goal is easy mode, then yeah, this is going to be a tough update the swallow. For content at the very upper end, it may require better play. That is certainly going to be cause for concern, for some players.
However, what I saw in the game doing the same content on the same characters for both Live and Morrowind, I did not even see a reason to continue to investigate. My numbers were so close that they were well within my own variation as a player. I just transitioned to playing Update 14 and stopped trying to compare to Live. If I am close to the average player, then Morrowind changes will be nothing to a lot of people. If I am some special snowflake off in my own delusional world, then I guess more people should be like me.
As an aside, I have to think that the people who complain about end-game content being nerfed for because of "casuals" have to be thrilled.
XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
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Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus1 -
FlyLionel✭✭✭✭
Yes, it was PVP players who literally went into Zos' HQ and forced them to change everything and wreck the game. lol? And I play pve only atm, if that was directed to me as well as all the rabid PVPers. @Betheny
The whining pitch from PVPers' voices is of such a magnitude it can reach ZOS ears from right across the country and over the oceans. All from the comfort of your little keyboards PVPers.
Well I hope you can understand that Zos wouldn't entirely rehaul a system due to PVP when there is something called battlespirit.
ZOS refuses to do that for the same reason many PVPers have brought up in outrage over that suggestion - [snip]
There's a direct quote from ZOS over this stating that around here somewhere. And loads of comments from PVPers stating that as the reason battle spirit cannot! be used to balance PVP separately from PVE.
So yes this is the fault of PVP.
Okay well clearly you're upset [snip], so you believe this entire Morrowind patch was entirely at the fault of PVP and I believe it was both. Alright.
[snip]. They said they can't expect people to handle learning new rules. So go take that up with ZOS.
*oh and a bunch of PVPers also agreed with this assessment, so...draw your own conclusions on that one.
Okay well I have no idea why I am assessing anything about other players who want a congruent system, I do not have to take anything up either; it is you who should be on pts giving feedback and at HQ with your virtual pitch forks..unless you are like me on console and are figuring out ways to adjust? Take care with your new warden now, and enjoy Morrowind.Edited by ZOS_Bill on 4 May 2017 13:38The Flyers0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »the naysayers are whining because those endgame elitist ****** think they are losing their edge from their small e pe*n which they regularly need stroked for. now if these major nerfes come tru, then ppl cant spam button like adhd rabbits and deal insane amount of dps. so. it will be cut from uberduber max of 80k down to something humanly like 40k. eh. giving too much credit, but you catch the point.
endgame elitist are the ones on uproar, while vast majority of playerbase is excited.
so. when ppl claim its end of eso, they just mean, its end of their massive e pe*n.
Everyone is being nerfed. The only difference is that the "elitists" will brush it off. But I guess it must be a good thing for ZOS that the "majority of the playerbase" is excited that the harder content will be further from their reach.
To be fair, the elitists and some CR600s are the only ones who will really notice. This is also reopening a lot of very old theorycrafting, so even as the best-of-the-best-of-the-"best" are whining, this is going to produce a lot more build variety.
I don't think I'd call this "the best thing to happen to ESO," one Tamriel probably takes that nod from me. But, still, this is not The End Times.
This.
MMOs need a shake-up every so often. Balancing is never a single moment achievement, and before these changes came along a lot of players were complaining that they had run out of steam with the game and that it was all too easy. Now they have something to get their teeth into again, along with a significant amount of new content in both Morrowind for the PvEers and Battlegrounds for the PvPers, as well as new group content as well. A few will run off in a huff but even they will be back, just like the principled critics of crown crates and all the other doom and gloom scenarios before them. Meanwhile everyone else will either not notice the changes or adapt to them as most players always do.0 -
Loves_guars✭✭✭✭✭
✭Seriously, some players solo the hardest content then come and post it. So yes, surpise surprise, ZoS sledgehammer!
Then those same players go in an eternal wail mode crying about the nerf that it was basically their fault.
Meanwhile the rest of us just shrug, adapt and take this for what it is, a game. Maybe some of us smile a little too.
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Curtdogg47✭✭✭✭I'll buy it and play it!
If it sucks I'll come here and complain!
If it's great I'll come here and sing praises to the almighty ZOS!0 -
Amayna✭✭✭the naysayers are whining because those endgame elitist ****** think they are losing their edge from their small e pe*n which they regularly need stroked for. now if these major nerfes come tru, then ppl cant spam button like adhd rabbits and deal insane amount of dps. so. it will be cut from uberduber max of 80k down to something humanly like 40k. eh. giving too much credit, but you catch the point.
endgame elitist are the ones on uproar, while vast majority of playerbase is excited.
so. when ppl claim its end of eso, they just mean, its end of their massive e pe*n.
A little salty?
also OP, BS!!!1 -
MyKillv2.0✭✭✭✭✭
✭the naysayers are whining because those endgame elitist ****** think they are losing their edge from their small e pe*n which they regularly need stroked for. now if these major nerfes come tru, then ppl cant spam button like adhd rabbits and deal insane amount of dps. so. it will be cut from uberduber max of 80k down to something humanly like 40k. eh. giving too much credit, but you catch the point.
endgame elitist are the ones on uproar, while vast majority of playerbase is excited.
so. when ppl claim its end of eso, they just mean, its end of their massive e pe*n.
The more things roll out about the patch and the more information comes out, the more true this statement rings true. Many Elite players won't be able to be heads and shoulders above everyone else. We have already seen a couple of these steamers rage quit when faced with the realization they won't be able to be heads and shoulders above others. It's funny how many of you bought the pile of crap they were trying to sell you without questioning them or testing out the changes yourself.
Fact is things needed to change, macro users and players who play 20+hours a day pushed the game to where you would simply ignore mechanics in trials and out DPS things. The game needed to change, group play should be about coordination of game mechanics, not macro mechanics.
The game was never suppose to be WoW... people need to stop trying to make this game WoW or CoD or For Honor or Ashes of Creations. It's ESO, let it be that.5 -
dday3six✭✭✭✭✭
✭MyKillv2.0 wrote: »the naysayers are whining because those endgame elitist ****** think they are losing their edge from their small e pe*n which they regularly need stroked for. now if these major nerfes come tru, then ppl cant spam button like adhd rabbits and deal insane amount of dps. so. it will be cut from uberduber max of 80k down to something humanly like 40k. eh. giving too much credit, but you catch the point.
endgame elitist are the ones on uproar, while vast majority of playerbase is excited.
so. when ppl claim its end of eso, they just mean, its end of their massive e pe*n.
The more things roll out about the patch and the more information comes out, the more true this statement rings true. Many Elite players won't be able to be heads and shoulders above everyone else. We have already seen a couple of these steamers rage quit when faced with the realization they won't be able to be heads and shoulders above others. It's funny how many of you bought the pile of crap they were trying to sell you without questioning them or testing out the changes yourself.
Fact is things needed to change, macro users and players who play 20+hours a day pushed the game to where you would simply ignore mechanics in trials and out DPS things. The game needed to change, group play should be about coordination of game mechanics, not macro mechanics.
The game was never suppose to be WoW... people need to stop trying to make this game WoW or CoD or For Honor or Ashes of Creations. It's ESO, let it be that.
That would imply only the ceiling is being lowered without any changes impacting the middle or floor. That's not the case. It's a full spectrum shift. Ceiling, middle and floor are all effected.
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Tholian1✭✭✭✭✭
✭.MyKillv2.0 wrote: »the naysayers are whining because those endgame elitist ****** think they are losing their edge from their small e pe*n which they regularly need stroked for. now if these major nerfes come tru, then ppl cant spam button like adhd rabbits and deal insane amount of dps. so. it will be cut from uberduber max of 80k down to something humanly like 40k. eh. giving too much credit, but you catch the point.
endgame elitist are the ones on uproar, while vast majority of playerbase is excited.
so. when ppl claim its end of eso, they just mean, its end of their massive e pe*n.
The more things roll out about the patch and the more information comes out, the more true this statement rings true. Many Elite players won't be able to be heads and shoulders above everyone else. We have already seen a couple of these steamers rage quit when faced with the realization they won't be able to be heads and shoulders above others. It's funny how many of you bought the pile of crap they were trying to sell you without questioning them or testing out the changes yourself.
Fact is things needed to change, macro users and players who play 20+hours a day pushed the game to where you would simply ignore mechanics in trials and out DPS things. The game needed to change, group play should be about coordination of game mechanics, not macro mechanics.
The game was never suppose to be WoW... people need to stop trying to make this game WoW or CoD or For Honor or Ashes of Creations. It's ESO, let it be that.
That would imply only the ceiling is being lowered without any changes impacting the middle or floor. That's not the case. It's a full spectrum shift. Ceiling, middle and floor are all effected.
Funny how they all seem to forget that. I am still waiting for one of them to show me how I am going to be lifted closer to the "elite".PS4 Pro NA5 -
acw37162✭✭✭✭✭
✭I was confused.
Then noticed the sun had gone down and realized the trolls have come out from under the bridge.4 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »@starkerealm - I have never mastered animation cancelling which is probably why my DPS is only 15-16k and I do run out of resources on extended solo fights. I think I will be noticing a difference. Not seeing how people will not notice that some of their skills will cost more and their recovery is poor.
You might be surprised. Yes, TTK could be longer for boss fights, and if you run out of resources now, you will run out of resources after Morrowind. You are likely already dealing with this issue, when it comes up. I know that I do.
I really don't like animation canceling, or 2 bar rotations. It just seems like a lot of work just to kill a monster in 3 seconds instead of 5 seconds. To really get good at it, I feel I need to do it with every combat (practice makes perfect) and I just can't seem to force myself to do it when the return isn't that great.
The thing for me is that I am already built more for sustain. I am fine if it takes me 10 seconds at 15k DPS to kill something instead of 5 seconds at 30k DPS. My critical metric is that they die before I do, and whatever DPS and TTK that I need to accomplish that is good enough.
So instead of it taking me 3 minutes to take down the target dummy, it will take me 6 minutes.
Animation canceling vs not using Animation canceling, which is what I was talking about? Yes, this is what I see on Live right now.
Lol no. 3 minutes to kill the target dummy on live vs. 6 minutes to kill it after morrowind patch without any animation cancelling, because I will have to change my build from damage to sustain and be slowed down even more due to heavy attacking. Just a guess since I can't test the PTS.
How much more punishing do the fights need to be for a mediocre NB?
No, not the target dummies. The numbers were based on your original 15k statement, and reflect what I see in the game on Live, but are not exact numbers. They were chosen to make the math easier, since the point did not depend on exact measured numbers.
Just to let you know, I have been doing a lot of my routine update 14 game testing using stamina nightblades in standard common normal every day overworld PVE.Edited by Elsonso on 4 May 2017 02:42XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus1 -
Ihatenightblades✭✭✭✭✭
✭Moloch1514 wrote: »lordrichter wrote: »@starkerealm - I have never mastered animation cancelling which is probably why my DPS is only 15-16k and I do run out of resources on extended solo fights. I think I will be noticing a difference. Not seeing how people will not notice that some of their skills will cost more and their recovery is poor.
You might be surprised. Yes, TTK could be longer for boss fights, and if you run out of resources now, you will run out of resources after Morrowind. You are likely already dealing with this issue, when it comes up. I know that I do.
I really don't like animation canceling, or 2 bar rotations. It just seems like a lot of work just to kill a monster in 3 seconds instead of 5 seconds. To really get good at it, I feel I need to do it with every combat (practice makes perfect) and I just can't seem to force myself to do it when the return isn't that great.
The thing for me is that I am already built more for sustain. I am fine if it takes me 10 seconds at 15k DPS to kill something instead of 5 seconds at 30k DPS. My critical metric is that they die before I do, and whatever DPS and TTK that I need to accomplish that is good enough.
So instead of it taking me 3 minutes to take down the target dummy, it will take me 6 minutes. And the thing doesn't fight back. I guess I just don't equate increasing the TTK and forcing the use of clunky heavy attacks with fun.
Exactly! For those of us who play solo or duo vet dungeons, this patch will mostly result in less fun. Sure, I'll enjoy the Morrowind overland content, but now I'll shrug at the thought of grinding pledges due to the long, repetitive boss fights. Yes, I could get 2 more people in there that I don't know, but I still believe in the core of Elder Scrolls: play how you want!
Thats the problem you weren't supposed to be 2 man dungeon anything lol .
Just shows game is too easy
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Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭.MyKillv2.0 wrote: »the naysayers are whining because those endgame elitist ****** think they are losing their edge from their small e pe*n which they regularly need stroked for. now if these major nerfes come tru, then ppl cant spam button like adhd rabbits and deal insane amount of dps. so. it will be cut from uberduber max of 80k down to something humanly like 40k. eh. giving too much credit, but you catch the point.
endgame elitist are the ones on uproar, while vast majority of playerbase is excited.
so. when ppl claim its end of eso, they just mean, its end of their massive e pe*n.
The more things roll out about the patch and the more information comes out, the more true this statement rings true. Many Elite players won't be able to be heads and shoulders above everyone else. We have already seen a couple of these steamers rage quit when faced with the realization they won't be able to be heads and shoulders above others. It's funny how many of you bought the pile of crap they were trying to sell you without questioning them or testing out the changes yourself.
Fact is things needed to change, macro users and players who play 20+hours a day pushed the game to where you would simply ignore mechanics in trials and out DPS things. The game needed to change, group play should be about coordination of game mechanics, not macro mechanics.
The game was never suppose to be WoW... people need to stop trying to make this game WoW or CoD or For Honor or Ashes of Creations. It's ESO, let it be that.
That would imply only the ceiling is being lowered without any changes impacting the middle or floor. That's not the case. It's a full spectrum shift. Ceiling, middle and floor are all effected.
Funny how they all seem to forget that. I am still waiting for one of them to show me how I am going to be lifted closer to the "elite".
It can be easy to forget that when you are in the game.
I'm not going to say that you will be lifted to the elite ceiling. No. I am going to repeat that you might find out that your impact is not as bad as you were led to believe. However, you seem to be getting invested in it being bad. Don't do that.XBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus2 -
Rohamad_Ali✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think you are so far off the mark and do not understand how end game guilds operate . Newer players are going to be less tolerated in good groups in order to make sure a dungeon or trial gets completed . The gap between great players and casual players will widen . In PVP all the people under the illusion this will bring them closer to beating really good players will get rekt harder then ever . This patch will probably segregate communities even further . Casual players will find it harder then ever to create a decent build as less people will be around to even share that information . Elites will enjoy the patch . Elites don't get caught up in one class . They will role what is best and gear up with other fellow elites even before the patch hits live so they can remain elite . Thinking anything else is really casting a blind eye to the situation .9 -
Funkopotamus✭✭✭✭✭0_0
Please pass me some of wuteva you are smoking..
This patch has already taken a toll on populations in the higher content guilds. Three of my guilds were end game Vet trial guilds and now they are ghost towns. I said it back 2 years ago that CP would kill this game and that the DEVS would never be able to program the game around CP players and casuals.. Well HERE WE ARE living the prophecy!
What is worse is the fact that ZOS will realize this update is a mistake and make changes around September/October, but it will be too late Destiny2 and POE will have already came out and the player base may never return to what it was..
Kinda sad to see this so early in the games life.Edited by Funkopotamus on 4 May 2017 03:58Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!" Sallington4 -
TheBonesXXX✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yes, it was PVP players who literally went into Zos' HQ and forced them to change everything and wreck the game. lol? And I play pve only atm, if that was directed to me as well as all the rabid PVPers. @Betheny
The whining pitch from PVPers' voices is of such a magnitude it can reach ZOS ears from right across the country and over the oceans. All from the comfort of your little keyboards PVPers.
Almost every game in the industry is catered to PvE, perhaps find a different one.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Funkopotamus wrote: »I said it back 2 years ago that CP would kill this game and that the DEVS would never be able to program the game around CP players and casuals.. Well HERE WE ARE living the prophecy!
Really now? You said, two years ago, "ZOS will botch up the Champion system. They'll give us too much power by accident, then strip it away, causing dozens, dozens, of players to leave, dooming the game to death!"? I think I missed that post.0 -
Drakkdjinn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shoulda just removed CP from PvP and been done with it ZoS. System's training wheels for whiny baddies anyway.0 -
Zedrian✭✭✭In Homestead, there are plenty of CP600 players that can't pull decent dps, sustain their resources despite the "infinite resources whine", and include a shield in their rotation to survive vet Trials. Champion Points means nothing to an end game guild... Max CP is not a requirement in our guild, but gameplay is. If Zenimax wants to provide more access to end game content to newer players, the game should teach the mechanics of combat properly, reduce the RNG odds, and reduce the challenge of end game content... Nerfing everyone will further distance newer players from end game content...
CP should not exist in PVP and would solve these balance issues at each patch.
Edited by Zedrian on 4 May 2017 10:444 -
CaptainBeerDude✭✭✭✭✭necronomniconb14_ESO wrote: »LiquidPony wrote: »Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »Actually the ESO "Middle Class" will be the one's hurt the most by the CP and class changes. The so called "Elites" will just learn to adapt and be able to do their vMOL, vMA, etc. And if you think the respective guilds will lower their CP requirements, I think you are a bit disillusioned.
Your likely correct since the top raid groups are top raid groups because they're able to adapt to changes in the game much faster. Tactics and builds are often a trickle down.
To dismiss your comment out of hand would be to look at the changes with blinders on. Dogma doesn't help anything.
The "elites" will have adapted long before Morrowind actually releases. People will log on the day of release with new builds and rotations ready to go, re-spec their CP, spend a few days farming new gear (if necessary), and be right back on track within the week.
they shouldn't have to spend the first few days to week of an expansion compensating for the massive *** on their parade a literal nuclear nerf will do to them.
Final fantasy 14 on the other hand, when IT's JUNE Expansion STORMBLOOD releases will NOT force you to waste the first few days you should spend in an expansion exploring and enjoying new content on just trying to make the game playable again. The only catch would be server stress, otherwise it should be fine.
moorowind on the other hand, we all know how monotonous games named morrowind are and how unfun their crappy combat is.
move to Final Fantasy 14 and get Stormblood
let zyngamax go frak themselves until they get their crap straight
perhaps if they themed their expansion after Oblivion i could have been suckered into letting them con me into letting them swindle me into letting them peddle me a preorder letting them have my money in exchange. But they themed it after the elder scrolls game I least enjoyed entirely because the combat was unbearable and awful. When combat is unbearable and awful, a game is unplayable for me. Therefore, both morrowind games are unplayable for me. Therefore they are garbage. zyngamax has not learned after 3 years of mistakes not counting betas how to do an mmo.
[edited for profanity masking and inappropriate commentary]
Hating on the OG Morrowind makes your opinion invalid. 0 -
Saint_Bud✭✭✭✭To all this guys how think that the dps gab from the elit to the bad players is geting smaller. You use the same gear and skills and get worse numbers and this will be the same after patch or you fell more behind, because ressurce managment will be much harder. You will struggle in vet dailys with your stamtoon to bomb througt traschgroups and heavy attack builds are not easier to play uf you think that. I like the change to cp coast reduction, but the other changes are just stuipid. And for all that think some will change in pvp, you forget that light and medium also gets a nearf anf no buff.PVP Saint-Bud magicka Templar: AR 49
PVE Lord Victarion mDK : dro'm-Athra-Destroyer pre Morrowind retired for crafting
PVE Ramsay-Bolton magicka NB: Voice of Reason Clockwork City Patch retired
VAA hm/ VHRC hm/ VSO hm/ VMOL hm/ VHOF hm/ VAS hm clear
Stop playing PVE because its boring, content not disigned for melee players and class balance and sustain is ***2 -
lunalitetempler✭✭✭✭TastesAllColors wrote: »There are of course some issues that need tweaking but in the main the devs are taking the game in the right direction. It will help low CP players get into guilds and content they are now shut out from. Hard content should be hard. Tactics and skill should matter. Six months from now ESO will be going stronger and better than ever.
[Edit to remove minor bait]
Totally agree I can't wait to start doing pve again now that it will be more challenging. Just breaks my heart seeing people skip mechanics, because it was soo much fun back in the days before cp.0
