Valencer wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

If they nerf EotS at this point, everyone will go block tank. That doesnt sound particularly fun.

Cant imagine guild groups getting anything done with the "old" ultimates in the current meta. People are just way too tanky in general.

Have you ever run in a serious raid, do you have any idea what you are talking about? Just because you can't imagine something doesn't mean anything.

We fought GoS back in 1.6 when they tried precisely what you said (back when blocky tank builds were much easier to run because you had stam regen, back when you still had barriers). Do you know what happened? After a brief adjustment period we were back to wiping the floor with them; because a raid full of low dps tanks becomes utterly dependent on mass ult dumps to kill anything outside of fighting random pugs. That makes them predictable. Do you know what they resorted to doing because of this? They placed siege in open field even fights vs us.

In fact, destro ult is an enabler, allowing raids to get by running more tanky builds than they could otherwise get away with while maintaining the same offensive capabilities. For every sky high NB destro bomb you have, you need that much less dps from elsewhere.

Extra Credit: Go ahead, define what 'too tanky' means to you.

So pretentious

Who cares about guild vs guild... The PvP guild scene in this game is already on its' deathbed. I was thinking of the horde of 60+ "solo" players that runs from keep to keep around the emp ring and how to go about fighting that with an organised group and coming out on top consistently without destro ultis.

Back then we had stam regen while blocking... now we have an overpowered constitution passive that makes block very sustainable too. And now people wear heavy instead of medium/light so they have higher resistances too. Yeah, people are way tankier now than ever before and I hope youre not argueing that this is not the case.

Calling my detailed explanation pretentious, then going on to dismiss GvG mechanics with an off hand statement of "it's basically dead". Please, who is truly being pretensious here? If I am terse, it is because I have no patience for potato replies.

Is the guild scene as competitive as it a year ago in 1.6? No it's not - precisely because of stupid skill and mechanic changes that have dumbed down gameplay and often been specifically targeted against coordinated groups. Go ahead and ask people who actually lead raids and theorycraft raid comp/strat, what is the single biggest thing right now that is dumbing down competitive play. What will we tell you? Destro ult.

GvG is by no means dead, the only way you could think that is of you never play during prime time. DC has VE, BOD, LOM, shadowgrabber, EP has PM, Haxus, Invictus, AD has Fantasia, DD, Dominion Knights, Ruin Gaming, hell I've even seen TKO coming back this week. Those are all guilds that run multiple times a week, if not nightly, on a regular basis.

Telling me that people are too tanky now to kill without destro ult is simply fallacious. Overall dmg was lower in 1.6 before the introduction of V16 gear meant ppl could stack up another 10k in their primary resource and Willpower/Agility gave them higher dmg than before - allowing them to overcome the battle spirit nerf. Not to mention having stam regen on block. Constitution was lower yes, BUT HEAVY ARMOR GAVE YOU A NATIVE 20% BLOCK COST REDUCTION. I was the one who invented heavy armor mag sorc and medium armor mag sorc. in short it was possible to maintain higher dmg in a tanky build before than it is now, the only thing that runs against that is proc sets, which is the reason you see all these people running heavy armor tanky builds now.

The largest obstical that we as a raid have in fighting greater numbers (the pug faction stack for example) is not that proc tanks and no dps potato tanks exist (and lots of people run them), it is the fact that destro ult exists.

geonsocal wrote: »

i haven't seen a destro ult hit for over 15k on a recap since homestead...considering they used to hit for 30k plus all the time - I'd consider this a mute point now...

now, if ya wanna talk nerf onslaught...man, that's a one hit kill move for a few of my characters (anyone below 30k max health)...

good point about this not being "rocket surgery" or "brain science" - totally agree

I've had the hit me for 15-17 K regularly the past week even with my 5 pc heavy armor and 17k resistance.

geonsocal wrote: »

i haven't seen a destro ult hit for over 15k on a recap since homestead...considering they used to hit for 30k plus all the time - I'd consider this a mute point now...

now, if ya wanna talk nerf onslaught...man, that's a one hit kill move for a few of my characters (anyone below 30k max health)...

good point about this not being "rocket surgery" or "brain science" - totally agree

Destro was only nerfed 10%, you seeing lower numbers in your recap is only a sign of you playing differently, spending less time in the ult, running a different build or fighting different people. That bears no weight in regards to the issue of destro ult & game balance.

Your point on onslaught is 100% correct though. Ever since that came up on the PTS patch notes I have been saying it would allow one shots and shouldn't exist. But no one wanted to acknowledge it and I was even confronted with people telling me it wouldn't be good.

It wasn't until streamers started using it that the potatoes picked up on the onslaught one shot build. The only silver lining is that 99% of people running that build are complete scrubs who are just free kills as soon as you pop them from stealth.

geonsocal wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Destro was only nerfed 10%,

when it comes to all the mechanics and eso - i'm not even gonna pretend like i really understand what the heck is going on - but, didn't this have an effect on the destro ult also:

Adjusted the Area of Effect damage thresholds for all abilities. The new thresholds are as follows:
Targets 1 – 6: 100% damage taken with all secondary effects applied.
Targets 7 – 24: 75% damage taken with no secondary effects applied (formerly 50% damage taken).
Targets 25 – 60: 50% damage taken with no secondary effects applied (formerly 25% damage taken).

also - was it minus 10% or minus 15%

Elemental Storm:
Fixed an issue where this ability and its morphs could occasionally cause your ground-target reticle to become stuck and prevent you from using other abilities.
Reduced the damage for this ability and its morphs by 5%.
Reduced the damage done by this ability and the Eye of the Storm morph by 10%. The damage from Elemental Rage remains unchanged.

To be honest, from a raid play perspective, the aoe cap change and destro dmg reduction have had precisely zero impact on how we use and how we have to react to destro ults. Possibly due to them cancelling each other out in part.

As far as whether it was 10% or 15% total, I always assumed it was 10, given that it was the next PTS iteration.