Could we please for the love of pvp nerf eye of bla bla

Dral_Shady

Grebcol wrote: »

This Skill is indeed lowest skill gameplay. Its boring to see that every damn guild popping nowdays with the same lame thing.

I couldnt have said it myself better. Thank you.

Minalan

For the record, I am perfectly okay with nerfing EoTS.

Problem is that it's the only way to deal with perma-blocktard builds out there.

Seems to me that fixing EoTS without fixing the only real permanent block counter would be stupid.

Fix both. Or neither.

Sandman929

Minalan wrote: »

For the record, I am perfectly okay with nerfing EoTS.

Problem is that it's the only way to deal with perma-blocktard builds out there.

Seems to me that fixing EoTS without fixing the only real permanent block counter would be stupid.

Fix both. Or neither.

I don't think I've ever seen a raid of 12 perma-blocktards killing things.

geonsocal

as soon as there little time in the sun is done with their ult, and, they've used a bunch of resources to heal and shield while using it - then it is time to return the flavor...

Hymzir

I don't know what should be done to the skill, but it really needs something done though. It is pretty much ruining PVP at the moment. However, just nerfing it will only *** of PVE crowd and turn zergtwerps to using some other stupid zerg ball move. As such, the problem is not EoF itself, but the mechanics that encourage zerging.

Just look at the history of PVP in this game - It's been one train after another. First you had impulse trains, when that got nerfed, people started using Steel Tornado spam (I even have a death recap saved somewhere that shows 5 different people each hitting me with Steel Tornado. No other skills used. Such fun times.) Then when that got nerfed everyone just migrated to Detonation Zergs - which at least required some skill for the twerps to time them correctly. And now we have EoF human centipedes. Which are the most *** version of the zerg train so far and which require least amount of skill.

Also note, that every single thing that was supposed to dissuade people from zerging, has been adopted by zergballs - Remember what Vicious Death was supposed to do? Hmmm? Remember that the whole point of magicka detonation was that it should discourage large numbers of players from engaging you simultaneously?

Who benefited the most from both of those things? Zerg balls of course. WIth AoE caps and auto targetting heals and purges, running around with you heads up each others but is the most efficient way to go.

So yeah... something has to be done - not only about EoF, but zerg balls in general. Negate Magic is without doubt the best option available - but that only works if you are a Sorc. There needs to be options available to everyone.

As such, my fix suggestion is to lower the casting time of Inevitable Explosion to instant. I mean, we already have plenty of bomb placing instant abilities in the game that explode for AoE damage. But those are balanced against smaller target groups. Inevitable would be a good option to really discourage people from zerging with it's inbuilt mechanics that scale from large number of targets. At the moment, it doesn't work though - the casting time is too slow, and with lag involved tends to take even longer than what it is supposed to. And often the fast moving zerg just runs out of range before the casting time is done. And finally, do remember that while casting it, you are basically a sitting duck... And you tend to get interrupted a lot too. Or just run over by the rapids using zerg.

If the skill was instant, it would be lot easier to land, and lot more people would slot it when faced with a zergball. It would still be pretty crappy in 1v1 situations, but half a dozen or so inevitables placed on a zerg ball would really put a damper on their day.

Granted, this solution only really works for magicka players but it's an easy fix to do - all you need to do is to change the cast time to zero, so it should be easy to implement. As for Stamina... I don't know, maybe replace one version of caltrops (I mean, does anyone actually use Anti-cavalry Caltrops?) with a shrapnel grenade or something. But that would take lot more work to implement though.

HoloYoitsu

Glurin wrote: »

Eye of the Storm stacking is rather annoying.

On the other hand, it is rather funny when you have a few sorcs to Negate the snot out of them and they basically just wind up faceplanting.

Minalan wrote: »

Glurin wrote: »

Eye of the Storm stacking is rather annoying.

On the other hand, it is rather funny when you have a few sorcs to Negate the snot out of them and they basically just wind up faceplanting.

If I could give a post two awesome's, this would be it.

The problem is that is not how destro bombing works in raid play. In fact the tenor of responses in this thread indicate to me that most of the responders have no idea how the raid play meta functions in the destro age.

Before destro ult, raid v raid allowed for much more strategy and maneuvering, you could bait out another group's ult bomb by juking them into dumping, then spreading out and recondensing after the bomb to wipe them with your own bomb. That worked because bombs were composed of STATIONARY damage. The only exception was bat bombs (mostly a Haxus strat), but that was counterable by movement because bats is relatively low dmg and small radius. Thus there were clear trade offs involved in theorycrafting raid composition: high dmg larger area ground placed ults, or smaller radius mobile bats bombs, using Dawnbreaker for CC instead of Nova.

With destro ult, all that strategy and counterplay is removed. It takes literally TWO NB destro bombs to wipe a full raid through their heals if they aren't able to immediately move out of it. There is no longer any place in raid for ground placed CC/utility ults since hey are negateable and why would you bother when eye of the potato is PBAOE?

Additionally, the fact that eye of the potato has a 2 sec wind up from cast means that there is no and can be no counterplay to it other than run away until it ends. You cannot juke out a destro bomb and then counter bomb because whoever bombs first wins, period. There is no negating a destro bomb, you will only stop a fraction of their dps from active abilities, but since it only takes 2 bombers to wipe a raid anyways, when there's 10+ destros coming at you even through your negates you will still die unless you run away. You will not be able to dps them down before you die because their healers hold back outside of negate range and keep them healed.

As an example of how retardedly overtuned destro ult is, as a raid you no longer bother doing 'ult dumps' in most situations. Instead you divvy up your destros in groups of 3-4 and stagger them out one set at a time. The only time you need to frontload all the destros is if you're going up against something that's stacked up 2-3 times your numbers (a la the pactvictus faction stack).

What we have now is literally the equivilent of CoD for GvG. It's a trash meta that simply favors whoever brings more potatoes to the fight. A proper fix for this would be lowering the radius + dmg of eye of the potato to be more in line with bats - you can lower the cost of that morph too then for all I care. The point is that the high cost of the ult does not excuse placing that kind of damage on a PBAOE, that's simply bad design. Elemental rage is fine and can remain as is.

Dral_Shady

Of the 2 options i my orignal post I personally would rather have them reduce AOE to 6 metres.Ball groups would cover a less area when they charge. As it is now when they charge inside a keep, they cover the whole floor and its pretty much impossible to move out of.
Wouldnt be a big nerf to the pve bears either.

Sheezabeast

I think the way it applies damage needs looked into. On Alessia bridge, in a zerg fight, I've had a Nord in 5 heavy with like 2k+ crit resist, not see the telegraph from EOTS, and took 45k damage on my recap. I know it was a big dot, I know it was because I was in it, like I said it was a bad scenario, getting zerged by AD on Alessia I know it was a dot I was not a vampire. Something is off with it.

Grebcol

Problem is too that you can pop destro and port with other skill with it. For me this should be not viable. This skill is unbalanced as ***.

GawdSB

Minalan wrote: »

For the record, I am perfectly okay with nerfing EoTS.

Problem is that it's the only way to deal with perma-blocktard builds out there.

Seems to me that fixing EoTS without fixing the only real permanent block counter would be stupid.

Fix both. Or neither.

You can really just ignore the perma block guys. They don't do much damage and one literally requires you to do damage do do anything.

GawdSB

As far as EoTS goes, I hate it. Worst skill in the game, I hate Nightblades but I hate EoTS even more. And the fact that you can use other transportation skills with it makes it even worst. Needs to be nerfed.

Durham

YES EOS is horriable I agree... I never see it in PVP.. I mean if it was so good people would use it right? Because no one ever uses it, I mean if your on the flag in a keep I always get hit with soul strike , or dragon leaped and 15 people die around me... i think the really good pvp people on the boards are never killed by it because it's a learn to play ability.... bleh I'm glad the original poster does not understand PvP like people on the boards do...

FearlessOne_2014

Dral_Shady wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Best defense against the destro ult is using almost any other ult. The blue beam of death will fry a solo player mid destro ult pretty easily and if 5 people are balled up ... give em a meteor.

This isn't rocket surgery people.

Once again its not about 1 destro ulti covering 10 metres but about 10 destro ultis covering 50 metres.

So if you and your group got hit by 10 of any other ultimate abilities in this game. Yall would have not died right? Just asking. I've survive 4 EoTS getting dropped on me. I was on a lvl 31 mageblade at the time in Trueflame. I even have a video of that whole outing on my low level mageblade having fun wrecking and surviving such OP abilities and such. I'll tell you what kills me most times tho. Those gank stamblades, I haven't figure that out, I'm still trying to learn how to not get ganked by them.(L2P issue/work in progress.) I know.

azrual

Add a 70% snare to the caster.

technohic

Seriously; I am using it and its kind of dumb. Smaller radius and shorter duration would probably do the trick. It still would be effective when people coordinate the roots-negate-EOTs combo but not fill the entire keep and allow enough time to sweep the area.

Sandman929

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Dral_Shady wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Best defense against the destro ult is using almost any other ult. The blue beam of death will fry a solo player mid destro ult pretty easily and if 5 people are balled up ... give em a meteor.

This isn't rocket surgery people.

Once again its not about 1 destro ulti covering 10 metres but about 10 destro ultis covering 50 metres.

So if you and your group got hit by 10 of any other ultimate abilities in this game. Yall would have not died right? Just asking. I've survive 4 EoTS getting dropped on me. I was on a lvl 31 mageblade at the time in Trueflame. I even have a video of that whole outing on my low level mageblade having fun wrecking and surviving such OP abilities and such. I'll tell you what kills me most times tho. Those gank stamblades, I haven't figure that out, I'm still trying to learn how to not get ganked by them.(L2P issue/work in progress.) I know.

10 of any other ultimate would be serious coordination on the attackers part. 10 of EotS (and 10 is a bit of an exaggeration really) is easy because of it's radius. For the area it covers and the fact that it's unblockable, I still don't see how anyone could say it's not ridiculous.

Dral_Shady

Sandman929 wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Dral_Shady wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Best defense against the destro ult is using almost any other ult. The blue beam of death will fry a solo player mid destro ult pretty easily and if 5 people are balled up ... give em a meteor.

This isn't rocket surgery people.

Once again its not about 1 destro ulti covering 10 metres but about 10 destro ultis covering 50 metres.

So if you and your group got hit by 10 of any other ultimate abilities in this game. Yall would have not died right? Just asking. I've survive 4 EoTS getting dropped on me. I was on a lvl 31 mageblade at the time in Trueflame. I even have a video of that whole outing on my low level mageblade having fun wrecking and surviving such OP abilities and such. I'll tell you what kills me most times tho. Those gank stamblades, I haven't figure that out, I'm still trying to learn how to not get ganked by them.(L2P issue/work in progress.) I know.

10 of any other ultimate would be serious coordination on the attackers part. 10 of EotS (and 10 is a bit of an exaggeration really) is easy because of it's radius. For the area it covers and the fact that it's unblockable, I still don't see how anyone could say it's not ridiculous.

yea 10 is an exaggeration and I didnt mean getting hit by them at once in my post but more they are all around you make maneuver so hard without getting in 1 of them.
Im just really tired of these "eye" trains running back and forth in larger group play and it gets boring really fast. Its just a bleeeeh pvp experience.
Small scale/solo I really dont have a problem with the ability.

exeeter702

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Best defense against the destro ult is using almost any other ult. The blue beam of death will fry a solo player mid destro ult pretty easily and if 5 people are balled up ... give em a meteor.

This isn't rocket surgery people.

What is rocket surgery?

pjwb16_ESO

I summon the great white eye of the bla bla in attack position

QahnaarinDynar

Or maybe OP should learn to take out the eye of the flame bearers the moment they appear. But wait... zerglings don't do that. They just panic and run around like clueless buffoons and hope some other big, strong and muscular player will do it for them since they can't do anything right by themselves anyways.

Nerf threads are all born from the same cloth - sheer ignorance.

Also, this again... so correct.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

The destro staff ults are vastly overrated. The only time you should be killed by one is if you're fighting in a really small space like the Allessia Bridge corridor. Aside from that all you got to do is read the flow of the battle.

If a group of players all simultaneously move back into a ball ... what do you think is going to happen next?

The people who die to the destro ult over and over again are the same people who don't wait 10 seconds before running into a breached wall.

HoloYoitsu

QahnaarinDynar wrote: »

Or maybe OP should learn to take out the eye of the flame bearers the moment they appear. But wait... zerglings don't do that. They just panic and run around like clueless buffoons and hope some other big, strong and muscular player will do it for them since they can't do anything right by themselves anyways.

Nerf threads are all born from the same cloth - sheer ignorance.

Also, this again... so correct.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

The destro staff ults are vastly overrated. The only time you should be killed by one is if you're fighting in a really small space like the Allessia Bridge corridor. Aside from that all you got to do is read the flow of the battle.

If a group of players all simultaneously move back into a ball ... what do you think is going to happen next?

The people who die to the destro ult over and over again are the same people who don't wait 10 seconds before running into a breached wall.

You are a potato who is either completely uninformed about raid play or just being deliberately disingenuous.

If you would bother reading the posts in this thread, you'd do us all a favor. As I explained earlier:

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Before destro ult, raid v raid allowed for much more strategy and maneuvering, you could bait out another group's ult bomb by juking them into dumping, then spreading out and recondensing after the bomb to wipe them with your own bomb. That worked because bombs were composed of STATIONARY damage. The only exception was bat bombs (mostly a Haxus strat), but that was counterable by movement because bats is relatively low dmg and small radius. Thus there were clear trade offs involved in theorycrafting raid composition: high dmg larger area ground placed ults, or smaller radius mobile bats bombs, using Dawnbreaker for CC instead of Nova.

With destro ult, all that strategy and counterplay is removed. It takes literally TWO NB destro bombs to wipe a full raid through their heals if they aren't able to immediately move out of it. There is no longer any place in raid for ground placed CC/utility ults since hey are negateable and why would you bother when eye of the potato is PBAOE?

Additionally, the fact that eye of the potato has a 2 sec wind up from cast means that there is no and can be no counterplay to it other than run away until it ends. You cannot juke out a destro bomb and then counter bomb because whoever bombs first wins, period. There is no negating a destro bomb, you will only stop a fraction of their dps from active abilities, but since it only takes 2 bombers to wipe a raid anyways, when there's 10+ destros coming at you even through your negates you will still die unless you run away. You will not be able to dps them down before you die because their healers hold back outside of negate range and keep them healed.

As an example of how retardedly overtuned destro ult is, as a raid you no longer bother doing 'ult dumps' in most situations. Instead you divvy up your destros in groups of 3-4 and stagger them out one set at a time. The only time you need to frontload all the destros is if you're going up against something that's stacked up 2-3 times your numbers (a la the pactvictus faction stack).

What we have now is literally the equivilent of CoD for GvG. It's a trash meta that simply favors whoever brings more potatoes to the fight. A proper fix for this would be lowering the radius + dmg of eye of the potato to be more in line with bats - you can lower the cost of that morph too then for all I care. The point is that the high cost of the ult does not excuse placing that kind of damage on a PBAOE, that's simply bad design. Elemental rage is fine and can remain as is.

Kay1

I always get killed by it while I small-scale but somehow when I'm completely solo I can survive 3 of them on me, I guess his strongest power is when a zerg use it against another zerg or small-scale group because with the lag and fps drops from the ulti and the amount of people you just die because you can't do anything at 3fps.

Nerf Eye of Flame and Buff your servers Zenimax!.

Valencer

If they nerf EotS at this point, everyone will go block tank. That doesnt sound particularly fun.

Cant imagine guild groups getting anything done with the "old" ultimates in the current meta. People are just way too tanky in general.

Joy_Division

exeeter702 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Best defense against the destro ult is using almost any other ult. The blue beam of death will fry a solo player mid destro ult pretty easily and if 5 people are balled up ... give em a meteor.

This isn't rocket surgery people.

What is rocket surgery?

+1

RinaldoGandolphi

Im ok with nerfing EOTS, but something needs to be done to the perma blocking builds as well.

HoloYoitsu

Valencer wrote: »

If they nerf EotS at this point, everyone will go block tank. That doesnt sound particularly fun.

Cant imagine guild groups getting anything done with the "old" ultimates in the current meta. People are just way too tanky in general.

Have you ever run in a serious raid, do you have any idea what you are talking about? Just because you can't imagine something doesn't mean anything.

We fought GoS back in 1.6 when they tried precisely what you said (back when blocky tank builds were much easier to run because you had stam regen, back when you still had barriers). Do you know what happened? After a brief adjustment period we were back to wiping the floor with them; because a raid full of low dps tanks becomes utterly dependent on mass ult dumps to kill anything outside of fighting random pugs. That makes them predictable. Do you know what they resorted to doing because of this? They placed siege in open field even fights vs us.

In fact, destro ult is an enabler, allowing raids to get by running more tanky builds than they could otherwise get away with while maintaining the same offensive capabilities. For every sky high NB destro bomb you have, you need that much less dps from elsewhere.

Extra Credit: Go ahead, define what 'too tanky' means to you.

Strider_Roshin

Simple solution. Make it so that you cannot cast any other moves during EotS

stephbay123

The weapon ultimates need to be on the same level- either all need to be blockable or not, can be dodged or not, can or cannot use other skills when being used. Some say eye of whatever is dodgeable but when you have numerous enemies running in to keeps at the same time as soon as a door comes down all with eye of whatever it cant be dodged. Even if the player was to be stunned and lose the ultimate then at least it gives a chance but to continue with it when they are stunned or lying on the ground is stupid.

Valencer

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

If they nerf EotS at this point, everyone will go block tank. That doesnt sound particularly fun.

Cant imagine guild groups getting anything done with the "old" ultimates in the current meta. People are just way too tanky in general.

Have you ever run in a serious raid, do you have any idea what you are talking about? Just because you can't imagine something doesn't mean anything.

We fought GoS back in 1.6 when they tried precisely what you said (back when blocky tank builds were much easier to run because you had stam regen, back when you still had barriers). Do you know what happened? After a brief adjustment period we were back to wiping the floor with them; because a raid full of low dps tanks becomes utterly dependent on mass ult dumps to kill anything outside of fighting random pugs. That makes them predictable. Do you know what they resorted to doing because of this? They placed siege in open field even fights vs us.

In fact, destro ult is an enabler, allowing raids to get by running more tanky builds than they could otherwise get away with while maintaining the same offensive capabilities. For every sky high NB destro bomb you have, you need that much less dps from elsewhere.

Extra Credit: Go ahead, define what 'too tanky' means to you.

So pretentious

Who cares about guild vs guild... The PvP guild scene in this game is already on its' deathbed. I was thinking of the horde of 60+ "solo" players that runs from keep to keep around the emp ring and how to go about fighting that with an organised group and coming out on top consistently without destro ultis.

Back then we had stam regen while blocking... now we have an overpowered constitution passive that makes block very sustainable too. And now people wear heavy instead of medium/light so they have higher resistances too. Yeah, people are way tankier now than ever before and I hope youre not argueing that this is not the case.

Orchish

It's pure cancer in pvp and that's why everyone is running it.