PTS Feedback Thread for Templar Balance Improvements

Cinbri · January 2017

Once more point why Total Dark should start reflect all attacks - reliability. Coagulating Blood is perfect example to compare:
1. When CB scaled of missing hp - it was unreliable because it didn't prevent attacks from heavy burst/gank builds, when it would work for 100% - dk would probably be dead.
Same going with Eclipse - you can't rely to have even 1 sec break and safety after casting it on majority of enemies in both pvp and pve in addition to 1 target cap.
2. When CB scaled of missing magicka - it became stronger than before coz it related on larger mana pool of magicka builds, but it still didn't fixed main problem - it still wasn't reliable because it still didn't defend against high burst/gank builds, and when skill worked on 100% it meant that caster is probably will be dead as his resources drowned.
Same with "buffed" Eclipse - it became uncaped on enemeis but from ~8 builds (~4 stamina, 4 magicka) it still works only on 2, while against those 2 it became even weaker because of unreflectable beams. It made skill situationally weaker. As result - skill became even less reliable in pvp, no matter if you can cast it on several enemies at once coz they will be immune to it.
In fact, currently it neglect main reason of aa CCs that you can see in death recap advices - to equal the odds when you fight outnumbered, by disabling enemy for some period of time. Not just coz 80% of enemies immune to it, but also coz it worknig in absolute different way of intended CC mechanic - instead of making it easier to fight outnumbered, it actually harder to use it when outnumberd because you need to find enemy that could be affected by it and since it affect only range - you will be forced to searching for backlines of attackers. And more enemies you face - more harder to actually find proper target for it.
3. When CB start to be flat heal with scaling of missing hp - it became 100% reliable because it would work for it's max effectiveness no matter of hp or magicka and in addition it saved it scaling and it's 100% reliable heal would be buffed further by more healing based on miss hp. And for that reason Total Dark must start reflect all attacks - this will make it 100% reliable in any situation, expecially for solo/duo pvp; when it will be casted on enemy templar will be able to rely to at least on 1 sec of break in battle while it also will become real CC that enemy will be willing to break, and it will match point to equal the odds to make outnumbered fight easier.
____________________________________________________________
@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert for this reason I believe that way to fix Total Dark is to make it reliable in same way as Coagulated Blood, and only way to do it is allow skill to reflect not just all range attacks but also all melee attacks. With removed timebomb or again with caped number of targets but actually working on it's main purpose - to CC enemy no mater what enemy it is. Right now it not reliable, it situative, and just too situative.

jbjondeaueb17_ESO · January 2017

Ok, listening to ESO Live, balance would have been to buff Luminous Shard, not remove CC from Blazing Spears and making it a weird duration.
Most of templar's "spamming" skills are multiplicative of 3, or very close, not 4, so duration of Blazing Spears should be 6 seconds, or 12, even 9 but 8s is a weird duration on templar's rotation.
Luminous Shard should work, first, not break with whatever damage, and bring back 5-10% of your max magicka on activating synergy. It doesn't seem op for PvP, synergies are not easy to activate in PvP and could be very nice in PvE.

SwaminoNowlino · January 2017

Spearblade wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

"We readjusted Backlash, so if you're solo you're probably not going to be able to hit the cap so you'll need to be in a group." -- Balanced by Wrobel

Where is that listed?

It would simply encourage PVPers (as if they need more encouragement) to stack more procs, in order to hit cap within 6 seconds.

Straight from @Wrobel's mouth on ESO Live

SwaminoNowlino · January 2017

Oh yeah, @Wrobel also stated on ESO live that they consider stamplar sustain to be fixed by adjusting the cost of sweeps. So gg. 6+ more months of not being able to do end game PvE on what used to be my main.

josh.lackey_ESO · January 2017

I really want shout a lot of expletives at the devs here, but it would just get me banned. But nerfing templars is freaking stupid. You guys can do better than this -- I've seen it. Why are you putting this one in the crapper? Come to your senses. My god, I play your game religously, I spend crowns, I try to be a productive citizen and treat other players well so that they have a good gaming experience, sense of community, etc and all that. And then you guys want to come along and make playing the clumsiest class in pvp suck even more. There is NOT PARITY beteen magplar and any other mag class. We are shafted on pretty much every single metric.

Can I get a refund? Can you switch my Templar to some class you aren't nerfing to kingdom come? Maybe a mag sorc. This is just sad. I love this game, but more and more it's just making me triggered. What's worse than just playing a game that sucks is playing a game that you fall in love with, and then having it "improved" to the point you can barely stand playing it anymore. I love so much of what's been added, I do. But I 90% pvp, and pvp experience has just gotten worse and worse.

technohic · January 2017

So I have been playing my Stamplar a lot and while I enjoy it; I have to say it is a poor mans version of everything else.

Reducing the cost of a couple of abilities is nice but we lack sustain where that doesn't help. Considering as stamina you rely on dodge roll for defense and our class having no escape nor a stam based defensive abilities; the cost reductions on the abilities only help slightly offensively.

Then there's the overall class problem of lack of a good CC. Javelin can be fine for a short hard stun but the duration needs to be the length the stam morph is for both. What we really need is a good mez that works similar to fear or pertrify or even sorcs one that lasts over 10 second so long the target isn't hit.

Then we have no mobility.

We have no stam damage booster

Some of this can be covered by weapons but you cant have every weapon equipped where other classes have at least something to cover part and are complimented by weapon selection; we are stuck with relying on weapons and pretty much just healing but even that has more limits as a stamplar with lack of resource management utilities

PDA No Way · January 2017

Reducing the cost of some skills is awesome and all but really as a Stamplar main I still dont feel like the house defender @Wrobel wants. If I am meant to stand and defend my house, give me resource management to do so. This game has been moving towards a fast play style but here us Temps with our rune and circle not able to move for more then 8 seconds. I would say this even extends to PVE as stamina resource management would make stamina temp tanks more viable in end game.

Our passives dont do anything for stam other then weapon damage. Neither do out skills. We have what, 3 stam skills in total and 1 was just nerfed so it wont benefit solo players. The other they finally fixed but said it was a buff..smh. How about adding stam return from one of our passives while we are in our house, I mean c'mon who really wastes 2 points in light weaver. Or make a stam dot and have enduring rays grant some bonus weapon damage too. There are so many things that could make a class like templars, jack of all trades, have more synergy with our skills and passives.

blue.indigo5b14_ESO · January 2017

Clearly no amount of logic, mourning our class, or whining will change the minds of the devs on the templar issue. Their own toons were getting repeatedly reamed by a Bee Mode magplar (Deltia's magtemp friend, @Karstyl) and decided to avenge themselves on the WHOLE CLASS, rather than tweak their own (or "git gud" on their own build).

Clearly templar is, in the devs' limited view, supposed to fulfill the healbot role and nothing more. It's sad that their own original, expansive, CLASS-DEFYING vision for ESO's gameplay has been increasingly scaled back: first the shift away from hybrid magicka/stam toon possibilities to stam or magicka-locked builds, reinforced by the so-called "champion" system, and now further pigeon-holing with the nerfing of the best templar abilities.

Thank the gods my other endgame toon is a DK, lol! I've preferred playing my templar but she may just have to be retired until ALL classes are nerfed equally. (Just as an aside, in my opinion the real reason the devs are nerfing templars has something to do with XBOX controllers, lag and bad graphics coding skills...just sayin'.)

Neoauspex · January 2017

Honor the dead fix, yay. PTS testers, please let us know how the backlash thing goes...

Ron_Burgundy_79 · January 2017

No change to the blazing spear nerf. Basically a big middle finger to magplars.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

Joy_Division · January 2017

Cinbri wrote: »

Once more point why Total Dark should start reflect all attacks - reliability. Coagulating Blood is perfect example to compare:
1. When CB scaled of missing hp - it was unreliable because it didn't prevent attacks from heavy burst/gank builds, when it would work for 100% - dk would probably be dead.
Same going with Eclipse - you can't rely to have even 1 sec break and safety after casting it on majority of enemies in both pvp and pve in addition to 1 target cap.
2. When CB scaled of missing magicka - it became stronger than before coz it related on larger mana pool of magicka builds, but it still didn't fixed main problem - it still wasn't reliable because it still didn't defend against high burst/gank builds, and when skill worked on 100% it meant that caster is probably will be dead as his resources drowned.
Same with "buffed" Eclipse - it became uncaped on enemeis but from ~8 builds (~4 stamina, 4 magicka) it still works only on 2, while against those 2 it became even weaker because of unreflectable beams. It made skill situationally weaker. As result - skill became even less reliable in pvp, no matter if you can cast it on several enemies at once coz they will be immune to it.
In fact, currently it neglect main reason of aa CCs that you can see in death recap advices - to equal the odds when you fight outnumbered, by disabling enemy for some period of time. Not just coz 80% of enemies immune to it, but also coz it worknig in absolute different way of intended CC mechanic - instead of making it easier to fight outnumbered, it actually harder to use it when outnumberd because you need to find enemy that could be affected by it and since it affect only range - you will be forced to searching for backlines of attackers. And more enemies you face - more harder to actually find proper target for it.
3. When CB start to be flat heal with scaling of missing hp - it became 100% reliable because it would work for it's max effectiveness no matter of hp or magicka and in addition it saved it scaling and it's 100% reliable heal would be buffed further by more healing based on miss hp. And for that reason Total Dark must start reflect all attacks - this will make it 100% reliable in any situation, expecially for solo/duo pvp; when it will be casted on enemy templar will be able to rely to at least on 1 sec of break in battle while it also will become real CC that enemy will be willing to break, and it will match point to equal the odds to make outnumbered fight easier.
____________________________________________________________
@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert for this reason I believe that way to fix Total Dark is to make it reliable in same way as Coagulated Blood, and only way to do it is allow skill to reflect not just all range attacks but also all melee attacks. With removed timebomb or again with caped number of targets but actually working on it's main purpose - to CC enemy no mater what enemy it is. Right now it not reliable, it situative, and just too situative.

Glad someone has the persistence to keep at it after a year and a half. Good luck banging your head against the ZoS wall.

Veg · January 2017

Cinbri wrote: »

Once more point why Total Dark should start reflect all attacks - reliability. Coagulating Blood is perfect example to compare:
1. When CB scaled of missing hp - it was unreliable because it didn't prevent attacks from heavy burst/gank builds, when it would work for 100% - dk would probably be dead.
Same going with Eclipse - you can't rely to have even 1 sec break and safety after casting it on majority of enemies in both pvp and pve in addition to 1 target cap.
2. When CB scaled of missing magicka - it became stronger than before coz it related on larger mana pool of magicka builds, but it still didn't fixed main problem - it still wasn't reliable because it still didn't defend against high burst/gank builds, and when skill worked on 100% it meant that caster is probably will be dead as his resources drowned.
Same with "buffed" Eclipse - it became uncaped on enemeis but from ~8 builds (~4 stamina, 4 magicka) it still works only on 2, while against those 2 it became even weaker because of unreflectable beams. It made skill situationally weaker. As result - skill became even less reliable in pvp, no matter if you can cast it on several enemies at once coz they will be immune to it.
In fact, currently it neglect main reason of aa CCs that you can see in death recap advices - to equal the odds when you fight outnumbered, by disabling enemy for some period of time. Not just coz 80% of enemies immune to it, but also coz it worknig in absolute different way of intended CC mechanic - instead of making it easier to fight outnumbered, it actually harder to use it when outnumberd because you need to find enemy that could be affected by it and since it affect only range - you will be forced to searching for backlines of attackers. And more enemies you face - more harder to actually find proper target for it.
3. When CB start to be flat heal with scaling of missing hp - it became 100% reliable because it would work for it's max effectiveness no matter of hp or magicka and in addition it saved it scaling and it's 100% reliable heal would be buffed further by more healing based on miss hp. And for that reason Total Dark must start reflect all attacks - this will make it 100% reliable in any situation, expecially for solo/duo pvp; when it will be casted on enemy templar will be able to rely to at least on 1 sec of break in battle while it also will become real CC that enemy will be willing to break, and it will match point to equal the odds to make outnumbered fight easier.
____________________________________________________________
@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert for this reason I believe that way to fix Total Dark is to make it reliable in same way as Coagulated Blood, and only way to do it is allow skill to reflect not just all range attacks but also all melee attacks. With removed timebomb or again with caped number of targets but actually working on it's main purpose - to CC enemy no mater what enemy it is. Right now it not reliable, it situative, and just too situative.

yeah. Lets make wings do that too : D

usmcjdking · January 2017

Eclipse just needs to silence.

It has very little application in solo PVE, no application in group PVE and just about no application in any instance in PVP.

templesus · January 2017

This "Balance patch" was highly underwhelming. Stam sorcs and stamblades still miles ahead of the other stam classes, mag dk gonna be viable solo play now but it doesn't change the fact every group is gonna have talons inhale spamming destro ult mag dks with block tank bol spamming frost destro ult magplars. They literally did nothing to fix the game at all. Us stamplars got some long needed FIXES, yet our sustain is still ***. All the 500 regen stam sorcs stamblades and even stam dks gonna try there builds out on stamplar and delete the class within an hour cuz our sustain is so ***. I'd say GG Zos, but I must not tell lies.

SwaminoNowlino · January 2017

templesus wrote: »

This "Balance patch" was highly underwhelming. Stam sorcs and stamblades still miles ahead of the other stam classes, mag dk gonna be viable solo play now but it doesn't change the fact every group is gonna have talons inhale spamming destro ult mag dks with block tank bol spamming frost destro ult magplars. They literally did nothing to fix the game at all. Us stamplars got some long needed FIXES, yet our sustain is still ***. All the 500 regen stam sorcs stamblades and even stam dks gonna try there builds out on stamplar and delete the class within an hour cuz our sustain is so ***. I'd say GG Zos, but I must not tell lies.

Remember, this is the production team who admitted to us all on ESO Live that they were surprised about Stamplar sustain complaints, and after two years realized the cost of two main abilities were "bugged."

Cinbri · February 2017

Ok, here is 2.7.4 brought nice things to us:
1. Backlash seems to work fine. Actually it not that hard for damage oriented templar to achieve damage cap in 1v1.
2. Very important ninja-fix - Unstable Core morph excluded from Enduring Rays as requested. It means skill gained approximetly 25% dps boost. Not sure why such huge change didn't make into patchnotes. @ZOS_GinaBruno it should be mentioned in live patchnotes, same as missing increased Javelin speed for 40% from previous patch.
3. Honor the Dead mana return is now working but outside of battle it have new bug: when mana return proced once - each cast will proc it, even if you heal at 100% hp. Rezoning/relog helps. Also bug dissapear in combat so it wont be gamebreaking:

And here is thing - given that:
a. Honor weaker than Breath of Life coz it is less reliable already in group of 2 people (templar can't waste a single cast on teammate as by himself he has no other defense beside spam heals and even 1 wasted cast can be fatal in 2vX)
b. given that 90% of heals will be initiated when below 75%hp in pvp and pve anyway,
c. in addition to fact that this morph constantly bugging with almost every major update:
why not to just remove this requiment of hp and make it just proc mana return on any cast. It will fix several problems: 1. morph will stop bugging out. 2.morph will be equalized in it's strength with other more favorable now morph. 3. morph will be saved from this HP requiment that is rudiment of past as being no longer important.
EDIT: and also Honor change will fix another anooying thing - that it don't have visual effect of mana return. With change it won't be needed coz it will return it anyway and caster will know it.

Idinuse · February 2017

This thread was just as rewarding as the previous Templar Feedback threads were.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245184/official-feedback-thread-for-templars/p1

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/234362/templar-issues-thread/p1

Sugaroverdose · February 2017

Lore_lai wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

As it stands, Templar is the only class with out an unblockable cc (petrify, fear, defensive rune) and they took our only good CC in blazing spear away(which by the way against any good stam build very rarely CCd them). Change luminous to an unblockable cc with a bigger radius as the added effect. I believe the problem they have with giving us an unblockable cc is that most don't break on dots, yet almost all of Templar abilities are dots(sweeps, vamp bane, radiant) so the implementation of it would be difficult. I propose they implement a bigger radius in luminous and a that is unblockable similar to fear and lasts the same amount of time as fear. It would no longer be a disorient, but would have to be a much larger radius to compensate for the fact that one of the morphs does not break on dots like petrify and rune cage.

Blazing Spear should disorient now, which is actually the same thing as petrify and agony

EXCEPT.
Petrify - targets can take damage while still CC'd before the Disorient breaks.
Agony - fair point BUT - The class who has Agony also has FEAR - an un-targetable (you just have to be in range), unblockable 3-man hard CC, that also puts snare on target even after effect is over, AND Minor Maim.

Meanwhile Templar has - Luminous Shards Disorient that breaks instantly and gives free CC immunity (now with even longer timer, rejoice!)

A disorient without a stored damage is useless.

2k shield on petrify breaks even on single sword LA, so it's not actually considered as something useful

S'yn · February 2017

Templar, by popular demand of other classes, will now be slathered in fail-sauce and worth double AP.

Bon appetite! Don't worry, they can't hurt you anymore.

Sugaroverdose · February 2017

S'yn wrote: »

Templar, by popular demand of other classes, will now be slathered in fail-sauce and worth double AP.

Bon appetite! Don't worry, they can't hurt you anymore.

You still can hide behind zerg and spam RD, at least that gameplay ZoS designed for magplars.

ADarklore · February 2017

I'll ask the same question here I asked over on the Patch Notes v2.7.4 section... since I haven't gotten any helpful answers there.

I'm curious, this recent update change to Backlash, does this mostly impact PvP and not so much PvE?

From the notes, "Hitting the maximum damage limit against another player now requires a significant amount of uninhibited damage from the Templar, and enemies will have more counterplay in reducing Backlash’s burst damage if they actively mitigate or avoid damage. "

Does this mean that in solo PvE it will still hit high damage against NPC enemies? As in, would it still be of any use trying to solo open-world bosses... if not... then is there even any reason to use it? According to the v2.7.2 patch notes, "We want to see Backlash as a burst damage ability that you can use in solo PvE or PvP content." So I'm interested in how it works for solo PvE?

Ron_Burgundy_79 · February 2017

ADarklore wrote: »

I'll ask the same question here I asked over on the Patch Notes v2.7.4 section... since I haven't gotten any helpful answers there.

I'm curious, this recent update change to Backlash, does this mostly impact PvP and not so much PvE?

From the notes, "Hitting the maximum damage limit against another player now requires a significant amount of uninhibited damage from the Templar, and enemies will have more counterplay in reducing Backlash’s burst damage if they actively mitigate or avoid damage. "

Does this mean that in solo PvE it will still hit high damage against NPC enemies? As in, would it still be of any use trying to solo open-world bosses... if not... then is there even any reason to use it? According to the v2.7.2 patch notes, "We want to see Backlash as a burst damage ability that you can use in solo PvE or PvP content." So I'm interested in how it works for solo PvE?

I just want to know when we'll get our blazing spear cc back.

danno8 · February 2017

ADarklore wrote: »

I'll ask the same question here I asked over on the Patch Notes v2.7.4 section... since I haven't gotten any helpful answers there.

I'm curious, this recent update change to Backlash, does this mostly impact PvP and not so much PvE?

From the notes, "Hitting the maximum damage limit against another player now requires a significant amount of uninhibited damage from the Templar, and enemies will have more counterplay in reducing Backlash’s burst damage if they actively mitigate or avoid damage. "

Does this mean that in solo PvE it will still hit high damage against NPC enemies? As in, would it still be of any use trying to solo open-world bosses... if not... then is there even any reason to use it? According to the v2.7.2 patch notes, "We want to see Backlash as a burst damage ability that you can use in solo PvE or PvP content." So I'm interested in how it works for solo PvE?

When I use Backlash in solo PvE, against long burns against bosses it will easily hit the cap every time. So it works out to Cap damage / 6.5 seconds worth of DPS. My cap sits at around 25k, so that is around 3.8k dps if you stay on top of it. This is pretty good for a DoT and only running solo, so missing a bunch of buffs. It works out to more % of total damage than Vamps Bane.

For the update, nothing really changes for PvE. For PvP though it is significantly better. In the latest iteration the build up damage is recorded as 150% of the damage received (only against other players). So if the target takes 20k damage in those 6.5 seconds the Backlash recorded damage will be 30k. When the damage is released it will be 25% of that, so that would be 7.5k (before mitigations) of unblockable damage. It can no longer crit, however your build up damage can still crit.

How it plays out practically in PvP remains to be seen, but I envision some of these super tank builds that hold block while 10 people are wailing on them getting a burst of 15k unblockable damage as problematic for them. 10 people doing a meagre 500 damage/second against a blocking opponent will do a combined 30,000 damage over 6.5 seconds, which would be around 12k explosion.

Neoauspex · February 2017

danno8 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

I'll ask the same question here I asked over on the Patch Notes v2.7.4 section... since I haven't gotten any helpful answers there.

I'm curious, this recent update change to Backlash, does this mostly impact PvP and not so much PvE?

From the notes, "Hitting the maximum damage limit against another player now requires a significant amount of uninhibited damage from the Templar, and enemies will have more counterplay in reducing Backlash’s burst damage if they actively mitigate or avoid damage. "

Does this mean that in solo PvE it will still hit high damage against NPC enemies? As in, would it still be of any use trying to solo open-world bosses... if not... then is there even any reason to use it? According to the v2.7.2 patch notes, "We want to see Backlash as a burst damage ability that you can use in solo PvE or PvP content." So I'm interested in how it works for solo PvE?

When I use Backlash in solo PvE, against long burns against bosses it will easily hit the cap every time. So it works out to Cap damage / 6.5 seconds worth of DPS. My cap sits at around 25k, so that is around 3.8k dps if you stay on top of it. This is pretty good for a DoT and only running solo, so missing a bunch of buffs. It works out to more % of total damage than Vamps Bane.

For the update, nothing really changes for PvE. For PvP though it is significantly better. In the latest iteration the build up damage is recorded as 150% of the damage received (only against other players). So if the target takes 20k damage in those 6.5 seconds the Backlash recorded damage will be 30k. When the damage is released it will be 25% of that, so that would be 7.5k (before mitigations) of unblockable damage. It can no longer crit, however your build up damage can still crit.

How it plays out practically in PvP remains to be seen, but I envision some of these super tank builds that hold block while 10 people are wailing on them getting a burst of 15k unblockable damage as problematic for them. 10 people doing a meagre 500 damage/second against a blocking opponent will do a combined 30,000 damage over 6.5 seconds, which would be around 12k explosion.

Thanks for the info @danno8, related follow up question: (PvP-wise) how is Radiant Oppression? Worthless? Decent still? Could that burst from backlash replace it, or would they best be used in conjunction? And so on...

danno8 · February 2017

Neoauspex wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

I'll ask the same question here I asked over on the Patch Notes v2.7.4 section... since I haven't gotten any helpful answers there.

I'm curious, this recent update change to Backlash, does this mostly impact PvP and not so much PvE?

From the notes, "Hitting the maximum damage limit against another player now requires a significant amount of uninhibited damage from the Templar, and enemies will have more counterplay in reducing Backlash’s burst damage if they actively mitigate or avoid damage. "

Does this mean that in solo PvE it will still hit high damage against NPC enemies? As in, would it still be of any use trying to solo open-world bosses... if not... then is there even any reason to use it? According to the v2.7.2 patch notes, "We want to see Backlash as a burst damage ability that you can use in solo PvE or PvP content." So I'm interested in how it works for solo PvE?

When I use Backlash in solo PvE, against long burns against bosses it will easily hit the cap every time. So it works out to Cap damage / 6.5 seconds worth of DPS. My cap sits at around 25k, so that is around 3.8k dps if you stay on top of it. This is pretty good for a DoT and only running solo, so missing a bunch of buffs. It works out to more % of total damage than Vamps Bane.

For the update, nothing really changes for PvE. For PvP though it is significantly better. In the latest iteration the build up damage is recorded as 150% of the damage received (only against other players). So if the target takes 20k damage in those 6.5 seconds the Backlash recorded damage will be 30k. When the damage is released it will be 25% of that, so that would be 7.5k (before mitigations) of unblockable damage. It can no longer crit, however your build up damage can still crit.

How it plays out practically in PvP remains to be seen, but I envision some of these super tank builds that hold block while 10 people are wailing on them getting a burst of 15k unblockable damage as problematic for them. 10 people doing a meagre 500 damage/second against a blocking opponent will do a combined 30,000 damage over 6.5 seconds, which would be around 12k explosion.

Thanks for the info @danno8, related follow up question: (PvP-wise) how is Radiant Oppression? Worthless? Decent still? Could that burst from backlash replace it, or would they best be used in conjunction? And so on...

In PvP I only ever used RD while the opponent is under 20% health anyway (when I actually hit my target and not some other guy next to them). That won't change. It is still the hardest hitting skill we have that you can use reactively. Only time I had RD off my bar was when it was dodgeable back in 1.6(?). That truly made it worthless.

I honestly haven't done much PvP PTS testing this run. If you are in a group, Backlash, DF, Javelin, RD combo will be pretty brutal against any non-blocking foe. Even if they manage to recover from the DF, Jav, RD situation, the Backlash explosion will go off right after they have healed up, and it not being blockable will put a pretty hefty dent in their health again. This is just on paper though. Against aware opponents, one dodge roll will negate most of that.

usmcjdking · February 2017

I understand the blazing spear nerd. I do not understand the justification for leaving Luminous in its current useless form which leaves the only Templar AOE control skill as nova.

Ron_Burgundy_79 · February 2017

usmcjdking wrote: »

I understand the blazing spear nerd. I do not understand the justification for leaving Luminous in its current useless form which leaves the only Templar AOE control skill as nova.

I don't understand the blazing spear nerf. It's not easy to use and it takes practice and anticipation to effectively cc someone.

usmcjdking · February 2017

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

I understand the blazing spear nerd. I do not understand the justification for leaving Luminous in its current useless form which leaves the only Templar AOE control skill as nova.

I don't understand the blazing spear nerf. It's not easy to use and it takes practice and anticipation to effectively cc someone.

Nah it's pretty easy to use, it's got a large radius. The skill is currently exceptionally strong. The nerf doesn't bother me but common sense suggested that the stun would go to luminous - which it didn't.

Ron_Burgundy_79 · February 2017

usmcjdking wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

I understand the blazing spear nerd. I do not understand the justification for leaving Luminous in its current useless form which leaves the only Templar AOE control skill as nova.

I don't understand the blazing spear nerf. It's not easy to use and it takes practice and anticipation to effectively cc someone.

Nah it's pretty easy to use, it's got a large radius. The skill is currently exceptionally strong. The nerf doesn't bother me but common sense suggested that the stun would go to luminous - which it didn't.

Have you ever dueled anyone that knows how to block? The only way to CC someone like that is to catch them gap closing or with animation canceled dawnbreaker. Blazing spear was a good ability, but it was far from exceptional. Now it's worthless in pvp.

Joy_Division · February 2017

usmcjdking wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

I understand the blazing spear nerd. I do not understand the justification for leaving Luminous in its current useless form which leaves the only Templar AOE control skill as nova.

I don't understand the blazing spear nerf. It's not easy to use and it takes practice and anticipation to effectively cc someone.

Nah it's pretty easy to use, it's got a large radius. The skill is currently exceptionally strong. The nerf doesn't bother me but common sense suggested that the stun would go to luminous - which it didn't.

If opponents know what they are doing, it isn't easy to hit them with Blazing Spear.

It was not and never a strong ability. It is a versatile ability with many uses. It's a huge difference.