The Dwemer

Solus · November 2016

I will be upfront in saying that I don't remember reading much into the lore behind the Dwarves other than they just randomly disappeared one day.

What did happen to the Dwemer?
Does anyone actually know, lore-wise?

Or does the lore not fully delve into what happened?

UrQuan · November 2016

There's a lot more to it than this, but the crux of the matter is that they meddled with things they didn't understand while seeking greater power, and vanished.

Milvan · November 2016

They messed up with a powerful artifact and went gone. Not really sure if they are dead or just trapped inside it. If you want to get the whole thing I suggest you reading the DWEMER UESP and all the ingame books that it quotes.

Solus · November 2016

Hey thanks guys!

One thing that keeps me engaged in any Elder Scrolls game is the story. The books. But, it's been awhile since I've even played Skyrim/Morrowind and read things, payed attention to the minute details.

Tryxus · November 2016

The most common theory is Kagrenac's experiments with the Heart of Lorkhan.

The heart had been ripped out of Lorkhan's chest by Trinimac, and Auriel shot it with his bow. It crash landed right into Vvardenfell where it formed a volcano around itself: the Red Tower, with the heart being the Zero stone.

The Dwemer that settled in the region found the Heart, and their Chief Tonal Architect Kagrenac created a set of tools to manipulate the Heart: Keening, Sunder and Wraithguard. Kagrenac believed that the Heart could be used to have his entire race ascend to godhood, which is why the Dwemer constructed the Brass Tower: Numidium, which would be powered by the Heart and become a living god.

And although they were allies and had joined the Chimer in the First Council, the Chimer commander Nerevar disagreed with this and led his forces against the Dwemer to take the Heart away from them in the Battle of Red Mountain. Kagrenac decided to go through with his plan to ascend and used the tools on the heart...

... and the Dwemer mysteriously disappeared. Vanished without a trace...

nimander99 · November 2016

They realized that Nirn was a dream and woke up, causing them to disappear from existence. Look up CHIM and you'll understand.

Solus · November 2016

nimander99 wrote: »

They realized that Nirn was a dream and woke up, causing them to disappear from existence. Look up CHIM and you'll understand.

I've read into this, basically everyone on Nirn is an extension of the greater power (forgot what it was called) and realising that you don't exist and you are just an extension of something greater stops you from existing. I think someone compared that to Buddhism?

This is interesting to read too:

http://www.ign.com/wikis/elder-scrolls-online/Elder_Scrolls_Timeline

I didn't know the Dwemer were basically Dunmer. Hm.

Ravena · November 2016

I highly doubt a race as whole would attain such a hivemind-like state as to achieve CHIM collectively and disappear. What is more likely is that their fate was an accident during a desperate time.

Vivec can't feel their presence ANYwhere, and that makes me suspicious of the theory that they were absorbed into the Numidium.

They were either accidentaly erased from existence or transported to a place that is not on our Aurbis.

Poss · November 2016

A Dwemer related DLC would be amazing, a lot of people are curious about their fate

JD2013 · November 2016

branstark wrote: »

A Dwemer related DLC would be amazing, a lot of people are curious about their fate

Yeah, a Dwemer related DLC would be awesome.

UrQuan · November 2016

Tryxus wrote: »

The most common theory is Kagrenac's experiments with the Heart of Lorkhan.

The heart had been ripped out of Lorkhan's chest by Trinimac, and Auriel shot it with his bow. It crash landed right into Vvardenfell where it formed a volcano around itself: the Red Tower, with the heart being the Zero stone.

The Dwemer that settled in the region found the Heart, and their Chief Tonal Architect Kagrenac created a set of tools to manipulate the Heart: Keening, Sunder and Wraithguard. Kagrenac believed that the Heart could be used to have his entire race ascend to godhood, which is why the Dwemer constructed the Brass Tower: Numidium.

And although they were allies and had joined the Dunmer in the First Council, the Dunmer commander Nerevar disagreed with this and led his forces against the Dwemer to take the Heart away from them in the Battle of Red Mountain. Kagrenac decided to go through with his plan to ascend and used the tools on the heart...

... and the Dwemer mysteriously disappeared. Vanished without a trace...

That's an excellent succinct summary @Tryxus. I didn't think I could boil it down to a summary that had enough details to make sense, but not so many that it would end up as a ridiculously long summary, hence my own brief and not that helpful one-line summary. You did what I didn't think I could do.

Loralai_907 · November 2016

Like most people, I am super curious about the Dwemer. But, I am hesitant to want a story line in any ES game. The not knowing might be better than the finding out.

Tryxus · November 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

The most common theory is Kagrenac's experiments with the Heart of Lorkhan.

The heart had been ripped out of Lorkhan's chest by Trinimac, and Auriel shot it with his bow. It crash landed right into Vvardenfell where it formed a volcano around itself: the Red Tower, with the heart being the Zero stone.

The Dwemer that settled in the region found the Heart, and their Chief Tonal Architect Kagrenac created a set of tools to manipulate the Heart: Keening, Sunder and Wraithguard. Kagrenac believed that the Heart could be used to have his entire race ascend to godhood, which is why the Dwemer constructed the Brass Tower: Numidium.

And although they were allies and had joined the Dunmer in the First Council, the Dunmer commander Nerevar disagreed with this and led his forces against the Dwemer to take the Heart away from them in the Battle of Red Mountain. Kagrenac decided to go through with his plan to ascend and used the tools on the heart...

... and the Dwemer mysteriously disappeared. Vanished without a trace...

That's an excellent succinct summary @Tryxus. I didn't think I could boil it down to a summary that had enough details to make sense, but not so many that it would end up as a ridiculously long summary, hence my own brief and not that helpful one-line summary. You did what I didn't think I could do.

Thx, although I did make a teensy mistake in it: it were the Chimer, not the Dunmer that had joined the Dwemer in the First Council and fought with them at Red Mountain. The Chimer turned into Dunmer after their commander Nerevar had been murdered

Osteos · November 2016

mommadani907 wrote: »

Like most people, I am super curious about the Dwemer. But, I am hesitant to want a story line in any ES game. The not knowing might be better than the finding out.

Agreed. I like it being a mystery that is speculated about both in game and by players.

TheSeer · November 2016

Ravena wrote: »

I highly doubt a race as whole would attain such a hivemind-like state as to achieve CHIM collectively and disappear. What is more likely is that their fate was an accident during a desperate time.

Quote from ESO wikia - Dwemer
"As the Dwemer were a race of Mer, their blood was closely related to that of the other Mer races. In the Fourth Era, when the Last Dragonborn helped Septimus Signus in a quest to open a Dwemer lockbox, Septimus Signus revealed that the blood of five Mer races could be collected and mixed by using an Essence Extractor to open the lockbox. Similarly to the members of the Psijic Order, the Dwemer race also possessed the ability known as "The Calling," to telepathically communicate with each other."

It would be possible for them to have achieved CHIM all at once through means of the calling, as they would all know how to achieve it. However the only downside to this theory would be they would all be trying to do so at once and in the same manner, which would mean they did not remain as individuals.

Quote from ESO wikia - CHIM
"The word in the Ehlnofex language, translates roughly to royalty, starlight, and high splendor, and is represented by a symbol that constantly changes but is normally recognized by a "Crowned Tower that threatens to break apart at the slightest break in concentration." CHIM, is the final stage of the Psijic Endeavor, and like the endeavor, can only be achieved by viewing the Tower, which encompasses the universe, yet keeping your own individuality in its presence. Failing to keep one's individuality in the presence of the Tower will result in the erasure of its viewer from the universe, an occurrence known as a "Zero Sum." Once CHIM is achieved, people experience a state in which time is bent both inward and outward into a "a shape that is always new" as well as an incomprehensible sense of the Godhead. One who achieves CHIM is able to observe the Tower without fear and reside within it. CHIM is possibly the fifth step of the Walking Ways."

So even if they all tried to achieve CHIM the only two scenerios would play out

1. They succeed, but become bound as one as a side effect.
2. They failed to keep their individuality and were effectively erased.

The latter is most likely however in this case.

Minalan · November 2016

Tryxus wrote: »

The most common theory is Kagrenac's experiments with the Heart of Lorkhan.

The heart had been ripped out of Lorkhan's chest by Trinimac, and Auriel shot it with his bow. It crash landed right into Vvardenfell where it formed a volcano around itself: the Red Tower, with the heart being the Zero stone.

The Dwemer that settled in the region found the Heart, and their Chief Tonal Architect Kagrenac created a set of tools to manipulate the Heart: Keening, Sunder and Wraithguard. Kagrenac believed that the Heart could be used to have his entire race ascend to godhood, which is why the Dwemer constructed the Brass Tower: Numidium.

And although they were allies and had joined the Dunmer in the First Council, the Dunmer commander Nerevar disagreed with this and led his forces against the Dwemer to take the Heart away from them in the Battle of Red Mountain. Kagrenac decided to go through with his plan to ascend and used the tools on the heart...

... and the Dwemer mysteriously disappeared. Vanished without a trace...

Well... Technically there's one left. He's at the corpusarium, and you definitely DON'T want to go there.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Yagrum_Bagarn

geonsocal · November 2016

Great, great thread...

I could read this stuff all day...thank you OP for getting it kicked off - and, big thanks to everyone whom contributed...

ThePonzzz · November 2016

I can't find the discussion anymore, it was talked about after Morrowind's release, but there was a pretty decent theory on how the Dwemer exist outside the timeline or in another timeline now due to their attempts to achieve CHIM.

Honestly, the history/lore of The Elder Scrolls are probably the biggest reason I continue to play the games. They could create a text-based MUD as their next online game, and I'd hop right on that.

Solus · November 2016

ThePonzzz wrote: »

I can't find the discussion anymore, it was talked about after Morrowind's release, but there was a pretty decent theory on how the Dwemer exist outside the timeline or in another timeline now due to their attempts to achieve CHIM.

Honestly, the history/lore of The Elder Scrolls are probably the biggest reason I continue to play the games. They could create a text-based MUD as their next online game, and I'd hop right on that.

This ^

Oblivion was really the game that got me hooked, however as a kid i spent many hours playing Morrowind. The content of this story is akin to the Lord of the Rings in terms of depth. Not quite as deep, but pretty darn close.

I thoroughly enjoy nerding out to both.

Pallmor · November 2016

IIRC correctly, one Dwemer did survive to cataclysm too. You meet him in Morrowind. But yeah, we've been waiting for a very long time to learn what really happened to them and where the rest of them went.

I'll say this for them, pretty impressive engineering to design machines that can work flawlessly for thousand of years with no maintenance. I wish GM would hire them.

mb10 · November 2016

Varen did mention that there will be a battle between 3 daedra armies by the gates of clockwork city and there are a few videos of the city in ESO but the DLC hasnt been released.

Must wait and see but there will be dwemer influence within the vestige story line

WhiteCoatSyndrome · November 2016

Minalan wrote: »

Well... Technically there's one left. He's at the corpusarium, and you definitely DON'T want to go there.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Yagrum_Bagarn

Are we counting ghosts? Because if that's the case we should probably count the Dwemer ghost who helps you repair Trueflame in the Tribunal expansion.

Pallmor wrote: »

I'll say this for them, pretty impressive engineering to design machines that can work flawlessly for thousand of years with no maintenance. I wish GM would hire them.

Technically they DO receive maintenance...from each other. Still very impressive though.

Narvuntien · November 2016

I was thinking about this... is it possible that the heart of lorkhan was just a giant Soul Gem? and Kagrenac was forced to activate the superweapon before it was ready absorbing all of the Dwemer into the Soul gem by accident instead of erasing the Chimer like it was meant to.

The tribunal then used the magic within soul gem to achieve thier godlike power basically using Dwemer souls to power themselves
Dagoth-Urs soul got mixed with that of Kagrenac's when he tinkered with the device.

If I remember what I read correctly, in Daggerfall the new numidium created by Tiber septum ran off a giant soul gem.

Dwemer were basically Aylieds that stoped worshiping Daedra and tried to see how close they could get to godhood through thier own skill. Perhaps they achieved thier goal. Maybe there is a Dwemer realm out in Oblivion. I mean they had already retreated from the rest of the world underground I doubt they cared for Nirn much anyway.

As a side note I like the look of Dwemer ruins in ESO compared to Skyrim, they are too clean in Skyrim.

Abeille · November 2016

Minalan wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

The most common theory is Kagrenac's experiments with the Heart of Lorkhan.

The heart had been ripped out of Lorkhan's chest by Trinimac, and Auriel shot it with his bow. It crash landed right into Vvardenfell where it formed a volcano around itself: the Red Tower, with the heart being the Zero stone.

The Dwemer that settled in the region found the Heart, and their Chief Tonal Architect Kagrenac created a set of tools to manipulate the Heart: Keening, Sunder and Wraithguard. Kagrenac believed that the Heart could be used to have his entire race ascend to godhood, which is why the Dwemer constructed the Brass Tower: Numidium.

And although they were allies and had joined the Dunmer in the First Council, the Dunmer commander Nerevar disagreed with this and led his forces against the Dwemer to take the Heart away from them in the Battle of Red Mountain. Kagrenac decided to go through with his plan to ascend and used the tools on the heart...

... and the Dwemer mysteriously disappeared. Vanished without a trace...

Well... Technically there's one left. He's at the corpusarium, and you definitely DON'T want to go there.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Yagrum_Bagarn

He should be healthy during this time in the timeline since Corprus isn't a thing yet.
Can you imagine if, in Vvardenfell, we are summoned by the Tribunal and when we enter the room Yagrum is casually finishing a conversation with Sotha Sil? My squeaks would be legendary.

IwakuraLain42 · November 2016

branstark wrote: »

A Dwemer related DLC would be amazing, a lot of people are curious about their fate

That will in all likelihood never happen. The unsolved mystery of the Dwemer (together with anything more substantial about Yokueda, Akavir or Atmora) is one of the cornerstones of the TES lore. This will always remain a mystery.

Enodoc · November 2016

Solus wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

They realized that Nirn was a dream and woke up, causing them to disappear from existence. Look up CHIM and you'll understand.

I've read into this, basically everyone on Nirn is an extension of the greater power (forgot what it was called)

Possibly the Godhead, or maybe that's something else...

and realising that you don't exist and you are just an extension of something greater stops you from existing.

Right, and that's the Zero Sum. Realising that you are an extension of something greater, but are still able to say "I" is the Secret of the Tower, and the path to CHIM.

I didn't know the Dwemer were basically Dunmer. Hm.

They weren't. Or at least, anything which interprets the "legend" which says that is drastically oversimplifying. Both the Dwemer and the Chimer were Aldmeri races who left the Aldmeri homeland, but there's nothing saying they left together. Most sources suggest the Dwemer were in Morrowind (then Dwemereth) long before the Chimer arrived, and the Chimer went there following the Prophet Veloth. The Dwemer were secular, devoted to science and engineering, while the Chimer were devout worshippers of the Good Daedra (which is why they left the Aldmeri homeland, since the Aldmeri culture is based on worship of the Aedra). Once the Chimer arrived, they fought against the Dwemer over resources and religion until Dumac and Nerevar united them against the Nords and formed the First Council of Resdayn. Under the First Council, the Dwemer were one of the Great Houses, and Imperial historians occasionally misinterpret that by inferring that "House Dwemer" was a Dunmer house, following the modern use of the "Great House" term as a member of the Dunmer Grand Council. The final fact of course is that the Dunmer didn't even exist until after the Dwemer had disappeared.

Minalan · November 2016

Abeille wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

The most common theory is Kagrenac's experiments with the Heart of Lorkhan.

The heart had been ripped out of Lorkhan's chest by Trinimac, and Auriel shot it with his bow. It crash landed right into Vvardenfell where it formed a volcano around itself: the Red Tower, with the heart being the Zero stone.

The Dwemer that settled in the region found the Heart, and their Chief Tonal Architect Kagrenac created a set of tools to manipulate the Heart: Keening, Sunder and Wraithguard. Kagrenac believed that the Heart could be used to have his entire race ascend to godhood, which is why the Dwemer constructed the Brass Tower: Numidium.

And although they were allies and had joined the Dunmer in the First Council, the Dunmer commander Nerevar disagreed with this and led his forces against the Dwemer to take the Heart away from them in the Battle of Red Mountain. Kagrenac decided to go through with his plan to ascend and used the tools on the heart...

... and the Dwemer mysteriously disappeared. Vanished without a trace...

Well... Technically there's one left. He's at the corpusarium, and you definitely DON'T want to go there.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Yagrum_Bagarn

He should be healthy during this time in the timeline since Corprus isn't a thing yet.
Can you imagine if, in Vvardenfell, we are summoned by the Tribunal and when we enter the room Yagrum is casually finishing a conversation with Sotha Sil? My squeaks would be legendary.

I thought in this time Dagoth Ur and the sixth house was just rising. Since the Tribunal hasnt been able to get to the volcano to refresh their powers...

If so, then How long until the corpus disease starts?

Abeille · November 2016

Minalan wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

The most common theory is Kagrenac's experiments with the Heart of Lorkhan.

The heart had been ripped out of Lorkhan's chest by Trinimac, and Auriel shot it with his bow. It crash landed right into Vvardenfell where it formed a volcano around itself: the Red Tower, with the heart being the Zero stone.

The Dwemer that settled in the region found the Heart, and their Chief Tonal Architect Kagrenac created a set of tools to manipulate the Heart: Keening, Sunder and Wraithguard. Kagrenac believed that the Heart could be used to have his entire race ascend to godhood, which is why the Dwemer constructed the Brass Tower: Numidium.

And although they were allies and had joined the Dunmer in the First Council, the Dunmer commander Nerevar disagreed with this and led his forces against the Dwemer to take the Heart away from them in the Battle of Red Mountain. Kagrenac decided to go through with his plan to ascend and used the tools on the heart...

... and the Dwemer mysteriously disappeared. Vanished without a trace...

Well... Technically there's one left. He's at the corpusarium, and you definitely DON'T want to go there.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Yagrum_Bagarn

He should be healthy during this time in the timeline since Corprus isn't a thing yet.
Can you imagine if, in Vvardenfell, we are summoned by the Tribunal and when we enter the room Yagrum is casually finishing a conversation with Sotha Sil? My squeaks would be legendary.

I thought in this time Dagoth Ur and the sixth house was just rising. Since the Tribunal hasnt been able to get to the volcano to refresh their powers...

If so, then How long until the corpus disease starts?

Dagoth Ur is only supposed to awake in a little over 300 years, no?

I don't know what is keeping the Tribunal from doing their ritual but afaik it shouldn't be Dagoth Ur, not yet.

Lashiing · November 2016

ever seen indiana jones and the kingdom o the crystal skull?
pretty much what that russian/german lady did

UrQuan · November 2016

Abeille wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

The most common theory is Kagrenac's experiments with the Heart of Lorkhan.

The heart had been ripped out of Lorkhan's chest by Trinimac, and Auriel shot it with his bow. It crash landed right into Vvardenfell where it formed a volcano around itself: the Red Tower, with the heart being the Zero stone.

The Dwemer that settled in the region found the Heart, and their Chief Tonal Architect Kagrenac created a set of tools to manipulate the Heart: Keening, Sunder and Wraithguard. Kagrenac believed that the Heart could be used to have his entire race ascend to godhood, which is why the Dwemer constructed the Brass Tower: Numidium.

And although they were allies and had joined the Dunmer in the First Council, the Dunmer commander Nerevar disagreed with this and led his forces against the Dwemer to take the Heart away from them in the Battle of Red Mountain. Kagrenac decided to go through with his plan to ascend and used the tools on the heart...

... and the Dwemer mysteriously disappeared. Vanished without a trace...

Well... Technically there's one left. He's at the corpusarium, and you definitely DON'T want to go there.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Yagrum_Bagarn

He should be healthy during this time in the timeline since Corprus isn't a thing yet.
Can you imagine if, in Vvardenfell, we are summoned by the Tribunal and when we enter the room Yagrum is casually finishing a conversation with Sotha Sil? My squeaks would be legendary.

I thought in this time Dagoth Ur and the sixth house was just rising. Since the Tribunal hasnt been able to get to the volcano to refresh their powers...

If so, then How long until the corpus disease starts?

Dagoth Ur is only supposed to awake in a little over 300 years, no?

I don't know what is keeping the Tribunal from doing their ritual but afaik it shouldn't be Dagoth Ur, not yet.

I think they're just lazy. They'd rather sleep in than do their ritual. Can you really blame them?

Abeille · November 2016

UrQuan wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Abeille wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

The most common theory is Kagrenac's experiments with the Heart of Lorkhan.

The heart had been ripped out of Lorkhan's chest by Trinimac, and Auriel shot it with his bow. It crash landed right into Vvardenfell where it formed a volcano around itself: the Red Tower, with the heart being the Zero stone.

The Dwemer that settled in the region found the Heart, and their Chief Tonal Architect Kagrenac created a set of tools to manipulate the Heart: Keening, Sunder and Wraithguard. Kagrenac believed that the Heart could be used to have his entire race ascend to godhood, which is why the Dwemer constructed the Brass Tower: Numidium.

And although they were allies and had joined the Dunmer in the First Council, the Dunmer commander Nerevar disagreed with this and led his forces against the Dwemer to take the Heart away from them in the Battle of Red Mountain. Kagrenac decided to go through with his plan to ascend and used the tools on the heart...

... and the Dwemer mysteriously disappeared. Vanished without a trace...

Well... Technically there's one left. He's at the corpusarium, and you definitely DON'T want to go there.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Yagrum_Bagarn

He should be healthy during this time in the timeline since Corprus isn't a thing yet.
Can you imagine if, in Vvardenfell, we are summoned by the Tribunal and when we enter the room Yagrum is casually finishing a conversation with Sotha Sil? My squeaks would be legendary.

I thought in this time Dagoth Ur and the sixth house was just rising. Since the Tribunal hasnt been able to get to the volcano to refresh their powers...

If so, then How long until the corpus disease starts?

Dagoth Ur is only supposed to awake in a little over 300 years, no?

I don't know what is keeping the Tribunal from doing their ritual but afaik it shouldn't be Dagoth Ur, not yet.

I think they're just lazy. They'd rather sleep in than do their ritual. Can you really blame them?

I can imagine Vivec floating horizontally with cucumber slices on his eyes while Almalexia admires herself in a mirror, and then Sotha Sil reminds them of the ritual and they call him a nerd and tell him to go tinker with his toys.

That's probably how it went down.