Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

i know most people think dps is such a brain dead role, but decent dps is probably the rarest thing in this game, especially when you consider the fact that you need at least 8 dps per trial group.

This. I'm of the opinion that dishing out constant, high-end dps is MUCH harder than endgame healing or tanking.

As some one who has Tanked, DPSed and Healed all vet trials including some hard modes I disagree. DPS is a brain dead role in this game. I can pull 25k just spamming wrecking blow or snipe with dots. All you have to do is not stand in stupid and do your rotation. That is enough to clear all craglorn vet trials.

Healing is probably the hardest role in the game. Keeping buffs up, providing resources and making sure the group is alive. It is much more a dynamic role than DPS.

If you think tanking is easy you are lucky to have a good tank in your group. Though not as hard as healing it is another dynamic role compared to dpsing.

I have a tank, a healer, and a couple dps characters. There's nothing brain dead about dps. Try pulling 45-50k with Wrecking Blow spam.

Woeler wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

i know most people think dps is such a brain dead role, but decent dps is probably the rarest thing in this game, especially when you consider the fact that you need at least 8 dps per trial group.

This. I'm of the opinion that dishing out constant, high-end dps is MUCH harder than endgame healing or tanking.

As some one who has Tanked, DPSed and Healed all vet trials including some hard modes I disagree. DPS is a brain dead role in this game. I can pull 25k just spamming wrecking blow or snipe with dots. All you have to do is not stand in stupid and do your rotation. That is enough to clear all craglorn vet trials.

Healing is probably the hardest role in the game. Keeping buffs up, providing resources and making sure the group is alive. It is much more a dynamic role than DPS.

If you think tanking is easy you are lucky to have a good tank in your group. Though not as hard as healing it is another dynamic role compared to dpsing.

I have a tank, a healer, and a couple dps characters. There's nothing brain dead about dps. Try pulling 45-50k with Wrecking Blow spam.

Try pulling 50k without a good supporting healer and tank. You won't. I wonder what raid team takes such ignorant people with them. Can't be anything serious.

If I was your tank I'd kick your ass back to the team that runs normal trials, where such ignorance about teamplay belongs.

kylewwefan wrote: »

Well, it wasn't exactly a PUG; it was all guild players....from a few different guilds, but nowhere near enough DPS. Why is it so freaking hard to find good DPS? Why do I keep doing this to myself? Maybe I should just stick with daily pledges.

One of these days the stars will align and well burn through the Warrior or Mage or Celestial Serpent. Til then F the vet trials. Maybe next weekend. Or tonight. Hehe.

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

kylewwefan wrote: »

Well, it wasn't exactly a PUG; it was all guild players....from a few different guilds, but nowhere near enough DPS. Why is it so freaking hard to find good DPS? Why do I keep doing this to myself? Maybe I should just stick with daily pledges.

One of these days the stars will align and well burn through the Warrior or Mage or Celestial Serpent. Til then F the vet trials. Maybe next weekend. Or tonight. Hehe.

Because the whole end game is a giant DPS check. add in some red puddles to slow the rotation down. Rinse repeat

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

i know most people think dps is such a brain dead role, but decent dps is probably the rarest thing in this game, especially when you consider the fact that you need at least 8 dps per trial group.

This. I'm of the opinion that dishing out constant, high-end dps is MUCH harder than endgame healing or tanking.

As some one who has Tanked, DPSed and Healed all vet trials including some hard modes I disagree. DPS is a brain dead role in this game. I can pull 25k just spamming wrecking blow or snipe with dots. All you have to do is not stand in stupid and do your rotation. That is enough to clear all craglorn vet trials.

Healing is probably the hardest role in the game. Keeping buffs up, providing resources and making sure the group is alive. It is much more a dynamic role than DPS.

If you think tanking is easy you are lucky to have a good tank in your group. Though not as hard as healing it is another dynamic role compared to dpsing.

I have a tank, a healer, and a couple dps characters. There's nothing brain dead about dps. Try pulling 45-50k with Wrecking Blow spam.

Try pulling 50k without a good supporting healer and tank. You won't. I wonder what raid team takes such ignorant people with them. Can't be anything serious.

If I was your tank I'd kick your ass back to the team that runs normal trials, where such ignorance about teamplay belongs.

Sry @Woeler I know ur a good tank, but I strongly disagree with you here. I'm actually wondering if you've ever rolled a dps char.

Tanking is the by far easiest role in the game atm. Pressing igneous shield, taunt and igneous weapons while holding mouse2 is the real no brainer.

And before I let you bash me like you just bashed the other guy, I do have ~5k hours as a tank under my belt. Done everything except vMoL (cause I quit tanking due to boredom), but thats like 1% of the content so doesn't really matter in this discussion.

As a dps you need:
- Rotations
- Knowledge about mechanics
- Constantly watch your shoulder for RNG elements and other dangers that can oneshot you

As a tank you need:
- Knowledge about mechanics

As a dps you are:
- Glued to your screen constantly striving to survive + get the perfect dps output

As a tank you are:
- Often drinking coffee IRL while holding mouse2
- Petting your dog while holding mouse2
- Alt tabbing on bosses
- Checking sales in guild stores on bosses
- Entering the UI to charge your weapon while getting attacked by a gazillion mobs

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

i know most people think dps is such a brain dead role, but decent dps is probably the rarest thing in this game, especially when you consider the fact that you need at least 8 dps per trial group.

This. I'm of the opinion that dishing out constant, high-end dps is MUCH harder than endgame healing or tanking.

As some one who has Tanked, DPSed and Healed all vet trials including some hard modes I disagree. DPS is a brain dead role in this game. I can pull 25k just spamming wrecking blow or snipe with dots. All you have to do is not stand in stupid and do your rotation. That is enough to clear all craglorn vet trials.

Healing is probably the hardest role in the game. Keeping buffs up, providing resources and making sure the group is alive. It is much more a dynamic role than DPS.

If you think tanking is easy you are lucky to have a good tank in your group. Though not as hard as healing it is another dynamic role compared to dpsing.

I have a tank, a healer, and a couple dps characters. There's nothing brain dead about dps. Try pulling 45-50k with Wrecking Blow spam.

Try pulling 50k without a good supporting healer and tank. You won't. I wonder what raid team takes such ignorant people with them. Can't be anything serious.

If I was your tank I'd kick your ass back to the team that runs normal trials, where such ignorance about teamplay belongs.

Sry @Woeler I know ur a good tank, but I strongly disagree with you here. I'm actually wondering if you've ever rolled a dps char.

Tanking is the by far easiest role in the game atm. Pressing igneous shield, taunt and igneous weapons while holding mouse2 is the real no brainer.

And before I let you bash me like you just bashed the other guy, I do have ~5k hours as a tank under my belt. Done everything except vMoL (cause I quit tanking due to boredom), but thats like 1% of the content so doesn't really matter in this discussion.

As a dps you need:
- Rotations
- Knowledge about mechanics
- Constantly watch your shoulder for RNG elements and other dangers that can oneshot you

As a tank you need:
- Knowledge about mechanics

As a dps you are:
- Glued to your screen constantly striving to survive + get the perfect dps output

As a tank you are:
- Often drinking coffee IRL while holding mouse2
- Petting your dog while holding mouse2
- Alt tabbing on bosses
- Checking sales in guild stores on bosses
- Entering the UI to charge your weapon while getting attacked by a gazillion mobs

I guess he'd kick your ass back to the B team as well. I'll save you a seat.

Aight, looking forward to it. Maybe I do not have to press mouse2 there, it's just too damn exhausting.

Xrucible wrote: »

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

i know most people think dps is such a brain dead role, but decent dps is probably the rarest thing in this game, especially when you consider the fact that you need at least 8 dps per trial group.

This. I'm of the opinion that dishing out constant, high-end dps is MUCH harder than endgame healing or tanking.

As some one who has Tanked, DPSed and Healed all vet trials including some hard modes I disagree. DPS is a brain dead role in this game. I can pull 25k just spamming wrecking blow or snipe with dots. All you have to do is not stand in stupid and do your rotation. That is enough to clear all craglorn vet trials.

Healing is probably the hardest role in the game. Keeping buffs up, providing resources and making sure the group is alive. It is much more a dynamic role than DPS.

If you think tanking is easy you are lucky to have a good tank in your group. Though not as hard as healing it is another dynamic role compared to dpsing.

I have a tank, a healer, and a couple dps characters. There's nothing brain dead about dps. Try pulling 45-50k with Wrecking Blow spam.

Try pulling 50k without a good supporting healer and tank. You won't. I wonder what raid team takes such ignorant people with them. Can't be anything serious.

If I was your tank I'd kick your ass back to the team that runs normal trials, where such ignorance about teamplay belongs.

Sry @Woeler I know ur a good tank, but I strongly disagree with you here. I'm actually wondering if you've ever rolled a dps char.

Tanking is the by far easiest role in the game atm. Pressing igneous shield, taunt and igneous weapons while holding mouse2 is the real no brainer.

And before I let you bash me like you just bashed the other guy, I do have ~5k hours as a tank under my belt. Done everything except vMoL (cause I quit tanking due to boredom), but thats like 1% of the content so doesn't really matter in this discussion.

As a dps you need:
- Rotations
- Knowledge about mechanics
- Constantly watch your shoulder for RNG elements and other dangers that can oneshot you

As a tank you need:
- Knowledge about mechanics

As a dps you are:
- Glued to your screen constantly striving to survive + get the perfect dps output

As a tank you are:
- Often drinking coffee IRL while holding mouse2
- Petting your dog while holding mouse2
- Alt tabbing on bosses
- Checking sales in guild stores on bosses
- Entering the UI to charge your weapon while getting attacked by a gazillion mobs

OMG the ignorance is real. Trial tanking is an entirely different beast compared to dungeons where you don't need a tank. You my friend described the role of a dungeon tank.

Woeler wrote: »

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

As a tank you need:
- Knowledge about mechanics

Let me help you a bit:
- Split second decision making in undesired situations
- Constant communication about buffs, debuffs or anomalies that come up
- Knowledge about who is where doing what
- Planning ahead, always

Sure if your only goal is completion there is barely anything a tank needs to do. If your goal is top leaderboard times there is A LOT a tank needs to do. More and more keeps getting pushed into you. I'm not saying DPS is easy, and I fully agree that your average tank does a *** job, but can stay alive. But a truly good tank, that supports, heals, tanks and makes sure your ass doesnt die because you decided to walk back into the Rakkhat room when there is a dark barrage being cast, well those are both hard to play and hard to come by.

To explain how such a situation works. Dark Barrage is a skill rakkhat does and it hits any person in front of him. If you aint a tank, you die. Two people go backyard. In the first phase Rakkhat faces to the backyard, always. Back yard is done, they are on their way back, I call dark barrage, but for some reason they decide to come back anyways. In this moment I am shieldstacking just to not die, need to keep an eye out if some half-deaf DD still comes back despite me calling (which is 180 degrees behind me). Then I need to check everyone else's position, need to figure out roughly where all of them will move next (aka does someone have an unstable void, are there adds, is there a hulk that needs to be taken, is someone dead). Then depending on this information I need to move the boss somewhere where it will make zero or the lowest amount of casualties. All within roughly a second or two.

This is how a good tank thinks. Now let me explain how any tank that can tank hel ra or aa thinks: Dark barage, face boss away from group. Anyone dying now is their own fault. End of thinking.

Yes you can let this person die, and yes he will get blamed for it because yes it is technically his fault, but it can be prevented and corrected by a good tank. That is why good tanks are the unsung heroes of raids, and that is why these topics *** me off so much. Because if I had a euro for every time I saved someones ass just so they can post their 50k+ on Rakkhat...

Sure the second one doesn't require much at all, and you can actually complete content with this mentality, but you will never ever get a spot near the top of the leaderboards with this. Because you the tank are the one responsible for nearly ALL error correcting in the raid. And believe me, there are lots.

And on a side note, any craglorn trial is a joke in terms of tanking compared to Rakkhat Hardmode.

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

As a tank you need:
- Knowledge about mechanics

Let me help you a bit:
- Split second decision making in undesired situations
- Constant communication about buffs, debuffs or anomalies that come up
- Knowledge about who is where doing what
- Planning ahead, always

Sure if your only goal is completion there is barely anything a tank needs to do. If your goal is top leaderboard times there is A LOT a tank needs to do. More and more keeps getting pushed into you. I'm not saying DPS is easy, and I fully agree that your average tank does a *** job, but can stay alive. But a truly good tank, that supports, heals, tanks and makes sure your ass doesnt die because you decided to walk back into the Rakkhat room when there is a dark barrage being cast, well those are both hard to play and hard to come by.

To explain how such a situation works. Dark Barrage is a skill rakkhat does and it hits any person in front of him. If you aint a tank, you die. Two people go backyard. In the first phase Rakkhat faces to the backyard, always. Back yard is done, they are on their way back, I call dark barrage, but for some reason they decide to come back anyways. In this moment I am shieldstacking just to not die, need to keep an eye out if some half-deaf DD still comes back despite me calling (which is 180 degrees behind me). Then I need to check everyone else's position, need to figure out roughly where all of them will move next (aka does someone have an unstable void, are there adds, is there a hulk that needs to be taken, is someone dead). Then depending on this information I need to move the boss somewhere where it will make zero or the lowest amount of casualties. All within roughly a second or two.

This is how a good tank thinks. Now let me explain how any tank that can tank hel ra or aa thinks: Dark barage, face boss away from group. Anyone dying now is their own fault. End of thinking.

Yes you can let this person die, and yes he will get blamed for it because yes it is technically his fault, but it can be prevented and corrected by a good tank. That is why good tanks are the unsung heroes of raids, and that is why these topics *** me off so much. Because if I had a euro for every time I saved someones ass just so they can post their 50k+ on Rakkhat...

Sure the second one doesn't require much at all, and you can actually complete content with this mentality, but you will never ever get a spot near the top of the leaderboards with this. Because you the tank are the one responsible for nearly ALL error correcting in the raid. And believe me, there are lots.

And on a side note, any craglorn trial is a joke in terms of tanking compared to Rakkhat Hardmode.

I get your frustration the plays you do as a tank are often not that visible and people are rarely grateful. and yeah I sure do love to exaggerate and provocate to get my point through. I was under the impression you were accusing dds of being braindead. Glad we could meet in the middle.

I do still think dding is generally much harder than tanking but as you say in extreme cases a tank or a healers skillfulness can be very crucial. vMoL sounds like such a case.

smashcats wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

smashcats wrote: »

DPS does seem tough to pull off...im a mag sorc and at this moment i can get like 11-13k consistent dps

Ive researched a lot and basically it seems to all come down to my gear because I dont have IA or anything like that yet... and im only cp 228 but how much more difference is another 4% in elemental expert really gonna make at this point?

liquid lightning, wall of elements, curse, entropy, force shock spam to proc frags, mage fury execute (doesnt really help ur dps much until a certain point)

Anybody have suggestions to increase dps

Because one guy said a good player with purps can pull off more dps than a bad one with legendary's but...im not finding that to be true because im a pretty damn good player (good awareness, dont die, dodge lots, block correctly) all that kinda stuff.....

First off you need to get over your denial phase. You are not a "damn good player". Your DPS is your reality check and it's 11-13k. Now after that is done, you need to learn to weave attacks and make sure your build has skills and gear that complement each other.

If you don't have access to IA, you can use arcance willpower jewelry for now. What 5-piece are you running? What monster set? What are your stats? What is your weapon? I'm pretty sure we can help you if you provide more info. You definitely should be able to pull more than 13k. Oh wait, one more thing - 11-13k - where do these numbers come from? How did you measure that?

I got those numbers from multiple boss fights its about the highest I can hit consistently. And that's where it really matters so i dont bother going to test my dps in any other way. And years of MMO's have made me a damn good player FYI. just cause i dont have gear that makes my dps higher lol good logic. but trolling aside, im getting more used to weaving light attacks but seems like a pretty silly method just to get ur dps higher i mean is that really what this game is about...?

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

smashcats wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

smashcats wrote: »

DPS does seem tough to pull off...im a mag sorc and at this moment i can get like 11-13k consistent dps

Ive researched a lot and basically it seems to all come down to my gear because I dont have IA or anything like that yet... and im only cp 228 but how much more difference is another 4% in elemental expert really gonna make at this point?

liquid lightning, wall of elements, curse, entropy, force shock spam to proc frags, mage fury execute (doesnt really help ur dps much until a certain point)

Anybody have suggestions to increase dps

Because one guy said a good player with purps can pull off more dps than a bad one with legendary's but...im not finding that to be true because im a pretty damn good player (good awareness, dont die, dodge lots, block correctly) all that kinda stuff.....

First off you need to get over your denial phase. You are not a "damn good player". Your DPS is your reality check and it's 11-13k. Now after that is done, you need to learn to weave attacks and make sure your build has skills and gear that complement each other.

If you don't have access to IA, you can use arcance willpower jewelry for now. What 5-piece are you running? What monster set? What are your stats? What is your weapon? I'm pretty sure we can help you if you provide more info. You definitely should be able to pull more than 13k. Oh wait, one more thing - 11-13k - where do these numbers come from? How did you measure that?

I got those numbers from multiple boss fights its about the highest I can hit consistently. And that's where it really matters so i dont bother going to test my dps in any other way. And years of MMO's have made me a damn good player FYI. just cause i dont have gear that makes my dps higher lol good logic. but trolling aside, im getting more used to weaving light attacks but seems like a pretty silly method just to get ur dps higher i mean is that really what this game is about...?

Sorry, years of other mmo experience doesnt mean anything in ESO. Ive seen top world raiders from other games come to eso and fail, not that its necessarily harder but it is much different.

Weaving skills and light attacks correctly is the backbone of any good damage dealer, i could try and help you out but i would need to know what gear youre wearing, your rotation, attributes,cp level, and race in order to get a better picture so i can find out what youre doing wrong.

Source : I have a few thousand hours logged onto my sorc main and feel that im at the top level of sorc dps(as conceited as that sounds) parse for proof http://i.imgur.com/cScWMrx.png

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

i know most people think dps is such a brain dead role, but decent dps is probably the rarest thing in this game, especially when you consider the fact that you need at least 8 dps per trial group.

This. I'm of the opinion that dishing out constant, high-end dps is MUCH harder than endgame healing or tanking.

As some one who has Tanked, DPSed and Healed all vet trials including some hard modes I disagree. DPS is a brain dead role in this game. I can pull 25k just spamming wrecking blow or snipe with dots. All you have to do is not stand in stupid and do your rotation. That is enough to clear all craglorn vet trials.

Healing is probably the hardest role in the game. Keeping buffs up, providing resources and making sure the group is alive. It is much more a dynamic role than DPS.

If you think tanking is easy you are lucky to have a good tank in your group. Though not as hard as healing it is another dynamic role compared to dpsing.

I have a tank, a healer, and a couple dps characters. There's nothing brain dead about dps. Try pulling 45-50k with Wrecking Blow spam.

Try pulling 50k without a good supporting healer and tank. You won't. I wonder what raid team takes such ignorant people with them. Can't be anything serious.

If I was your tank I'd kick your ass back to the team that runs normal trials, where such ignorance about teamplay belongs.

Sry @Woeler I know ur a good tank, but I strongly disagree with you here. I'm actually wondering if you've ever rolled a dps char.

Tanking is the by far easiest role in the game atm. Pressing igneous shield, taunt and igneous weapons while holding mouse2 is the real no brainer.

And before I let you bash me like you just bashed the other guy, I do have ~5k hours as a tank under my belt. Done everything except vMoL (cause I quit tanking due to boredom), but thats like 1% of the content so doesn't really matter in this discussion.

As a dps you need:
- Rotations
- Knowledge about mechanics
- Constantly watch your shoulder for RNG elements and other dangers that can oneshot you

As a tank you need:
- Knowledge about mechanics

As a dps you are:
- Glued to your screen constantly striving to survive + get the perfect dps output

As a tank you are:
- Often drinking coffee IRL while holding mouse2
- Petting your dog while holding mouse2
- Alt tabbing on bosses
- Checking sales in guild stores on bosses
- Entering the UI to charge your weapon while getting attacked by a gazillion mobs

Woeler wrote: »

You dont just find good people, you make good people.

s7732425ub17_ESO wrote: »

LEGENDARYYY wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Xrucible wrote: »

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

CultOfMMO wrote: »

i know most people think dps is such a brain dead role, but decent dps is probably the rarest thing in this game, especially when you consider the fact that you need at least 8 dps per trial group.

This. I'm of the opinion that dishing out constant, high-end dps is MUCH harder than endgame healing or tanking.

As some one who has Tanked, DPSed and Healed all vet trials including some hard modes I disagree. DPS is a brain dead role in this game. I can pull 25k just spamming wrecking blow or snipe with dots. All you have to do is not stand in stupid and do your rotation. That is enough to clear all craglorn vet trials.

Healing is probably the hardest role in the game. Keeping buffs up, providing resources and making sure the group is alive. It is much more a dynamic role than DPS.

If you think tanking is easy you are lucky to have a good tank in your group. Though not as hard as healing it is another dynamic role compared to dpsing.

I have a tank, a healer, and a couple dps characters. There's nothing brain dead about dps. Try pulling 45-50k with Wrecking Blow spam.

Try pulling 50k without a good supporting healer and tank. You won't. I wonder what raid team takes such ignorant people with them. Can't be anything serious.

If I was your tank I'd kick your ass back to the team that runs normal trials, where such ignorance about teamplay belongs.

Sry @Woeler I know ur a good tank, but I strongly disagree with you here. I'm actually wondering if you've ever rolled a dps char.

Tanking is the by far easiest role in the game atm. Pressing igneous shield, taunt and igneous weapons while holding mouse2 is the real no brainer.

And before I let you bash me like you just bashed the other guy, I do have ~5k hours as a tank under my belt. Done everything except vMoL (cause I quit tanking due to boredom), but thats like 1% of the content so doesn't really matter in this discussion.

As a dps you need:
- Rotations
- Knowledge about mechanics
- Constantly watch your shoulder for RNG elements and other dangers that can oneshot you

As a tank you need:
- Knowledge about mechanics

As a dps you are:
- Glued to your screen constantly striving to survive + get the perfect dps output

As a tank you are:
- Often drinking coffee IRL while holding mouse2
- Petting your dog while holding mouse2
- Alt tabbing on bosses
- Checking sales in guild stores on bosses
- Entering the UI to charge your weapon while getting attacked by a gazillion mobs

You've never tanked VMOL? Pity. VMOL is what separates scrub tanks from really good tanks. I run with good tanks that can snooze through all other content. But they will die in VMOL. Multiple times. It's really that different. And you say this doesn't matter?

Woeler wrote: »

Any idiot can taunt and block. Any idiot can pull 25k dps. This can be done by braindead people. These players are not good players. This is not "decent" tanking. This is not "decent" damage dealing.

But if you people keep comparing the effort of a 50k dps to a taunt and block tank, or the effort of a progressive thinking supportive tank to a 20k dps this argument is going to stay in the bullsh!tzone.

And honestly, you are not going to do 50k dps on a 5min+ fight without a decent tank, and you're not going to be living on the edge as a tank with 20k dps DD's. So, we can all stop pretending to be the mvp that carries the raid.

Lets move on.