TheBonesXXX wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Da hell you talking about?! Magicka pulls just as much DPS in trials than stamina now! Okay, pure single target, a stamina dragon knight or a stamina sorcerer might be out putting slightly more (1-2k DPS difference MAX), but anything that involves adds (pretty much all the boss fights in the game) magicka DPS is just as good and usually its higher. What makes magicka better? The survivability.

You fail to recognize that stamina is way more powerful in terms of dps and survivability. They made stamina the meta so obviously it is more overpowered than magicka. Now to my point I tested out my dps on a guy for pvp and I asked him to put on his divines gear, do a heavy attack from stealth as a stamina nightblade, then asked him to put on his impenetrable gear and it was the same amount of damage. Now I switched characters and just did the same thing to test out different abilities such as surpirse attack for stamina, concealed weapon for magicka, lotus fan and then ambush, heavy attack etc. For my stamina I was sitting at around 4.5k buffed weapon damage with 36k maximum stamina, then my magicka was about 42k with 4.5k buffed spell damage. It was so much different in the amount of dps that I did to him. Magicka is obviously less powerful and their is a big difference between who does more damage, not to mention I tested out my heals as well and found that my stamina nightblade had way stronger heals. That is a problem and it definitely needs a patch.

WHAT?!?! You crazy?! Stamina = more survivability than magicka?!?! In what world?!?! I was talking about PvE trials first of all. So your comment is completely off topic (PvP not equal PvE). In PvE, magicka is much more survivable and outputs just as much damage as stamina. And I'm not talking about trash AoE pulls yet.

In PvP you can't mesure damage like that. Absolutely no point. In PvP, I hated playing my stam toons to get Vigor and Caltrops and I'm not a bad PvPer. Yeah sure the damage is good, but the survivability? Unless you're wearing a full set of well-fitted or BlackRose then magicka survivability is much better IMO. Shuffle and roll dodge is all you have along with some HoTs. Magicka? Breath of Life, Healing Ward... Its more than enough to outsell any type of damage that is not a 1-shot. And you have shields, which give crit immunity. If you spec like spell damage is the only stat that matters then of course you're going to get killed easy. Magicka can stack up their resources much higher than stamina. Guess what? Shields scale off resources. So with 50k magicka (easy on NB and Sorc) your shields are strong AF. Templars have healing, damage reduction and access to a shield. DKs?.. Well yeah they kinda suck (#BUFFMAGDK).

Breathe of Life is only applicable to a Templar and Healing Ward is the only good heal Magicka has, it also only works to its full potential within execute range. Healing Ward is not great otherwise, its a great situational heal, but Shuffle allows someone to passively take no damage, its like dodge rolling for free.

Stamina has a better selection of skills that result in better synergy for optimized builds. Magicka players are forced to use shields.

The difference is Stamina gets passive and free damage mitigation, wards have a damage ceiling in which they can be counter acted.

Vigor + 2h heal + Shuffle + immovable has no rivals on the Magicka side.

You can use Shuffle on a magicka build. Shuffle + Ward + Immovable is just as good as having 2 HoTs.

thankyourat wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

I wear all impen. I know how to play this game. I don't like when I get caught with my shields down and take a 15k incap. With impen I take about 9k. Now it is very unwise to only put 20 cp into bastion because that is how you make your shields stronger. It still does not matter what I do because my shield strength is not strong enough and I constantly feel heavily reliant on my shields. I get really tired of having to play defense like 90% of a fight because sometimes I literally have to stop dpsing and start spamming my shields over and over and over again.

Make shields stronger is all I can say at this point. It is such a sad joke what they did to us.

I am also a vampire by the way. As a sorcerer you don't really need to put points into reduced resistance because shields are what keep you alive.

It's very unwise to put 100cp into Bastion because you're only adding 25% to your shield value, whereas if you had 100cp into hardy your shield would take 25% less physical damage. I'm not suggesting you put 100cp into hardy, but I am suggesting you don't put 100cp into bastion, 70cp in bastion is plenty. I don't doubt you know how to play the game, I just thought you ought to know that Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned affect your ward strength too.

You know I actually did try that. I put about 40 cp into bastion and then it was about 70 into harder the rest into elemental defender. It didn't work very well.

You know what? I don't believe you. Mainly because of this:

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

My shields are awful and I have about 100 points into bastion. I put one up and it gets taken down like 2 seconds later because like you said I am constantly getting hit by 531s using that cancerous 3 proc set...

But it's cool, I'm done here anyway, this thread is a mess.

There is some truth to it though I run about 80 points into bastion I find it more useful than hardy and elemental defender because it will absorb both physical and magic damage. I'm not even using impen and crit resist anymore there's no point cause my shield is huge (only 1 cause I play magblade) and my shield is always up so I can't be crit anyway. The only time my shield is down is if I'm out of magicka or stamina so I'm going to die regardless. But i feel it is much better to pump up your shield strength first than use what's leftover for your other resist

Yeah I don't advocate putting zero cp in bastion for pvp, the amount you spend there is up to you, I only said that 100cp was a waste, and I presume you would agree with only 80 there yourself. I have no experience pvping with 50k magicka so don't really know how bastion performs there, better I imagine. I have 38k magicka for pvp and I would rather have a 10.5k shield that takes 18% less physical/elemental/magical damage and 14% less dot damage than a 12k ward that took 7% less physical etc damage. Remember that the reduced damage from hardy etc. works with shields up or down, so it's universal damage reduction. Having cp in thick skinned too allows you to "double-dip" on damage reduction; plently of nasty dots in pvp which you can bet are buffed with double-dips.

wroble doesn't know what balance is.

Yamenstein wrote: »

Sounds like a bad magicka player complaining about how bad magicka classes are. Magicka classes have range advantage and now because of your op ultimate and monster mask you can basically wipe out entire boss adds on your own. If you don't know how to play the game then just say so. You must not know best in slot gear or something. I suggest looking up alcast and his magicka videos. I didn't bother reading the entire rant, throughout the thread, but if it's a out PVP then yea some tweaks would be good I don't PVP enough to see how bad magicka classes are, but I can imagine stamina is dominating.

For PVE it seems pretty good right now.

Lol... uh hey genius, this is the PVP part of the forums... so before you start insulting the OP and telling him he must suck at being a magicka user, you might wanna know wtf you're talking about.

I think something that some people fail to understand is that magicka classes aren't supposed to be built like stamina classes. You can't stack 5k Spell Damage and have amazing sustain like you can on a stamina build. But you can stack 50k magicka, have amazing sustain and have a decent spell damage value (over 3.2k). Stamina have proc damage builds, but we have proc sustain sets like the Lich and Warlock. We have a decent alternative for Seducer now that they changed the Worm set (instead of the healing taken, its a magicka recovery bonus). I still think that magicka have the most use for an incredible PvP set that is Engine Guardian (stam users are literally getting nothing from the magicka restore)
You have more penetration simply from wearing light armor.
You aren't supposed to do anything else than break free and block meteors with your stamina, you can get away with 10k stamina just perfectly fine. As long as you can recover the cost of Break Free over 6 seconds, you don't have to have higher stamina. Amber plasm is an example of what I'm talking about. In 1vX its different, but if you spend your time 1vXing you can't really complain about survivability because stamina builds will also get wiped at some point. In duels, if anything magicka has much better survivability against proc sets and healing reduction sets because of shields and healing ward. Health is no longer a rubbish stat too. If you have a decent health pool (which can be done without sacrificing stats) under your shields, no proc build will ever 1-shot you.

There's isn't much balance between magicka and stamina in terms of the possible damage output. After all, those heavy armor builds are all based on stamina. So a good thing to do, to bring those stamina sets down, is to increase the cool down on the proc sets. Like for example instead of Viper proc'ing every 4 seconds, increase that to 12, the set wouldn't be useless and still OP if it procs at the right time. Same goes for Duneripper. Decrease the proc chance to 33% from 50% and increase the cool down by 2 seconds. Idk its either you change those sets completely to not have procs or you nerf them into uselessness.

I think the only proc sets that should stay are the monster sets. But Viper and Widowmaker? The really should be something else.

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

def would love some mDK love...

Mag dk destro ult with talons and breath and stuff. OP

Minalan wrote: »

Destyran wrote: »

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

def would love some mDK love...

Mag dk destro ult with talons and breath and stuff. OP

I was about to laugh at this...

But then I remembered that an MDK can stack the sun set and burning spellweave this patch. That's about 1000 spell damage for fire spells.

Talon. Destro ult. GG.

Big edit: This is sort of awesome. I've never seen an MDK be 'dangerous' before in combat.

It's funny as hell in group, but a mag DK stacking those sets will be infected with Light Armor Squishitus

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

Problem with the Magicka is that they do not have a tool kit equivalent to stamina, stamina was behind and now they are way ahead the power creep. ,


Two Hand, Duel Wield, Sword and Board, Bow

vs - Winner is Stamina for useful abilities and a broader toolkit.

Resto Staff, Destro Staff the only thing we cannot have dodged is the beam from lightning and resto - Destro staff is Destro, most of the abilities are incredibly underwhelming.

Fighters guild vs Mages guild, again winner is stamina because a broader tool kit with abilities that are more powerful.

Light Armor, vs Medium and Heavy, Stamina wins because they have a broader toolkit.

A good portion of each abilities have been dispersed between the classes.

Magicka lacks a tool kit variety that stamina has, stamina has varying ways to achieve greater and a diverse array of builds where Magicka has been pigeon holed into hoping they can free cast and live through the stamina assault.

They effectively murdered any chance at magicka melee however stamina range and melee are stronger.

Possible Solutions:

I don't care about burst - I do NOT want to be pigeonholed into ward spam to survive. Give an increased attack speed boost to magicka base, give magelight a 20 second buff time with the crit damage boost on both bars, buff magicka dot damage.

update our weapon arsenal, such as a scythe that allows magicka melee pvp.

give us a worthy heal outside of the bloody resto staff.

I thought of these on the fly, can defend or expand my ideas if needed.

What would you use instead of the resto? Its great for getting your ressources up, it goes against dodge roll, it gives you an amazing shield, it gives you major mending... There's always 1 attack bar and 1 support bar. So go on tell me what would you use instead of a resto staff. SnB? What for? For blocking with that measly stamina pool? Dual wield? What you're going to buff up with more spell damage? 2-H? Seriously cut it out. The resto staff is the only worthwhile weapon on the back bar.
Also if you're sick of using the Healing Ward you could always slot the Twilight which is a stronger heal than Breath of Life. I figured you were talking from a Sorcerer PoV.

Now, Heavy armor can be worn by a Magicka user just fine. It compliments them just as much as stamina (except stamina have Black rose, which should be changed to include a magicka bonus instead of the stamina bonus). Look at all the templars running heavy armor.

Okay so in terms of weapon skills yeah stamina wins. Now count the stamina damage dealing abilities abilities in each class. That's right there's usually 1 or 2 (NB has 3 + Incap). In the end we are sitting with the same number of abilities on each side.

Stamina range is only stronger for ganking, otherwise its only there for 1 skill aka Poison Injection. So no stamina range is nowhere near magicka range.

Fighters' vs Mages'? They are pretty much equal. Entropy, Inner Light and Meteor vs Trap Beast and Dawnbreaker. Also Mages' Guild passives are much stronger.

All of these points that you stated aren't really correct. There is an imbalance, but not due to the reasons you provided. There's really only 1 reason. Stamina can rely on chances. Yeah dodge chance and proc chance. That's literally it.

I personally would use duel wield and an inferno staff - if I had the heal outside of resto. I'm well aware how good it is for resource management, I do not necessarily always use one attack and support bar, in a traditional sense. I use melee pressure and ranged pressure to build support into it.

The restostaff is the only worthwhile weapon on the back bar only because of healing ward for a lot of players, because its really the only heal worth a damn.

Heavy Armor is irrelevant in terms of talking about what Magicka has by itself, Templars are wearing heavy armor because it has superiority over light, period and that is one of the problems, light armor is inferior use when compared to Stamina and Heavy Armor.

The stamina skills across the board are superior to magicka is one of my points, our style of play is limited compared to a stamina who can use 2h, dw, sword and board, bow. Not to mention, the abilities that support the skills at hand, stamina has better options when enhancing their builds.

You are kidding yes? The amount of effect builds stamina has in their tool kits vastly outshines what magicka can do in the current meta. There are more variety of stamina builds that are more effective in pvp than magicka, that's just what it is.

Stamina can tank better than magicka, Stamina has a greater TTK in most of its builds, and in PVP, given the nature of the skills available, its self heals are superior to magicka. Stam can melee, range, and self heal to a greater effect with a broader toolkit with greater effectiveness than Magicka.

Minalan wrote: »

Sharpened fire staff primary weapon, and a back bar with a lightning staff and curse for every DK wing spammer I constantly run into. And I could back-bar elemental drain, making spinner set sort of unnecessary.

For a heal, I would just hit 'dark deal' and it would actually work like an instant heal or a good HOT (vigor!) without Wrobel's 'feel awesome' one second interruptible delay.

A Sorc can dream can't he? No? Oh well, I guess it's back to Wrobel-balance-land for me. Hand me that stupid heal stick again.

You want to call down lightning against wing spamming DKs? Well you're in luck! Wrobel has given you Lightning Splash to take care of that!

Don't forget your Overload heavy attack!