Zos please buff magicka users again and make them equal to stamina

UppGRAYxDD

FriedEggSandwich

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

I wear all impen. I know how to play this game. I don't like when I get caught with my shields down and take a 15k incap. With impen I take about 9k. Now it is very unwise to only put 20 cp into bastion because that is how you make your shields stronger. It still does not matter what I do because my shield strength is not strong enough and I constantly feel heavily reliant on my shields. I get really tired of having to play defense like 90% of a fight because sometimes I literally have to stop dpsing and start spamming my shields over and over and over again.

Make shields stronger is all I can say at this point. It is such a sad joke what they did to us.

I am also a vampire by the way. As a sorcerer you don't really need to put points into reduced resistance because shields are what keep you alive.

It's very unwise to put 100cp into Bastion because you're only adding 25% to your shield value, whereas if you had 100cp into hardy your shield would take 25% less physical damage. I'm not suggesting you put 100cp into hardy, but I am suggesting you don't put 100cp into bastion, 70cp in bastion is plenty. I don't doubt you know how to play the game, I just thought you ought to know that Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned affect your ward strength too.

Izaki

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Da hell you talking about?! Magicka pulls just as much DPS in trials than stamina now! Okay, pure single target, a stamina dragon knight or a stamina sorcerer might be out putting slightly more (1-2k DPS difference MAX), but anything that involves adds (pretty much all the boss fights in the game) magicka DPS is just as good and usually its higher. What makes magicka better? The survivability.

You fail to recognize that stamina is way more powerful in terms of dps and survivability. They made stamina the meta so obviously it is more overpowered than magicka. Now to my point I tested out my dps on a guy for pvp and I asked him to put on his divines gear, do a heavy attack from stealth as a stamina nightblade, then asked him to put on his impenetrable gear and it was the same amount of damage. Now I switched characters and just did the same thing to test out different abilities such as surpirse attack for stamina, concealed weapon for magicka, lotus fan and then ambush, heavy attack etc. For my stamina I was sitting at around 4.5k buffed weapon damage with 36k maximum stamina, then my magicka was about 42k with 4.5k buffed spell damage. It was so much different in the amount of dps that I did to him. Magicka is obviously less powerful and their is a big difference between who does more damage, not to mention I tested out my heals as well and found that my stamina nightblade had way stronger heals. That is a problem and it definitely needs a patch.

WHAT?!?! You crazy?! Stamina = more survivability than magicka?!?! In what world?!?! I was talking about PvE trials first of all. So your comment is completely off topic (PvP not equal PvE). In PvE, magicka is much more survivable and outputs just as much damage as stamina. And I'm not talking about trash AoE pulls yet.

In PvP you can't mesure damage like that. Absolutely no point. In PvP, I hated playing my stam toons to get Vigor and Caltrops and I'm not a bad PvPer. Yeah sure the damage is good, but the survivability? Unless you're wearing a full set of well-fitted or BlackRose then magicka survivability is much better IMO. Shuffle and roll dodge is all you have along with some HoTs. Magicka? Breath of Life, Healing Ward... Its more than enough to outsell any type of damage that is not a 1-shot. And you have shields, which give crit immunity. If you spec like spell damage is the only stat that matters then of course you're going to get killed easy. Magicka can stack up their resources much higher than stamina. Guess what? Shields scale off resources. So with 50k magicka (easy on NB and Sorc) your shields are strong AF. Templars have healing, damage reduction and access to a shield. DKs?.. Well yeah they kinda suck (#BUFFMAGDK).

Izaki

Minalan wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Make shields stronger is all I can say at this point. It is such a sad joke what they did to us.

We've been screwed every since dark brotherhood gave us 10% increased costs across the board.

Now in this update they are such a sad joke

What exactly has been done to Sorcs since the "good old days" you guys want so badly to return to?

• There was a ability cost increase done across the board, which effected every ability in the game.
• Crit Surge was changed to a flat value.
• Shield duration was reduced to 6 seconds.
• Streak got the dodge roll treatment.
• Negate got buffed into the ceiling.
• Annulment got buffed to include physical as well as spell dmg.

These are the big changes I can think of pertaining to mSorc, some of these being quite old. If this thread is really about getting wrecked by dmg-proc-combo builds, we're all in the same boat there.

1. Stam wasn't hit nearly as hard on the abilit cost increase. Their costs weren't as high as ours to begin with.

2. The surge was a huge nerf. It probably had to happen, but there was no survivability given back to us in exchange. Please don't say 'dark deal', because I can't promise that I won't laugh.

3. Six second shields is too short, eight would have been a fair compromise. Six second shields just puts a higher skill floor on the class, and fewer people can pull it off. To get anything close to five and a half seconds on a shield, you have to cancel the animation. Then do it again every four seconds or so to keep it up and avoid instant stamina macro death. It's kind of ridiculous.

Shields can't really be compared to dodge, because with shields up you can still be feared, immobilized, CC'ed, rooted, thrown up into the air, trapped, etc. We still have the problem where anyone who can count to five and stun you gets free shots at your squishy light armor.

4. Streak was a little harsh. With gap closers being cheap and spammable, streak doesn't need to cost nearly as much as it does.

5. Now we can slot negate and make monkey noises all night deep inside of the huge faceless zerg. Thanks but no thanks. Aw screw it. Ooh ooh! Eeeh! Aaah! *cast negate*

6. You have any idea what it costs to try stacking two shields that only last 3.8 seconds after both of the animations are cancelled? If this is a buff, I'd hate to see what a nerf looks like.

Proc damage sets are just the nasty raw sewage icing on the poo flavored cake that Wrobel baked for us over the last THREE patches of being free AP piñatas for stamina classes.

Agreed on the cost increase.

Surge is the most amazing ability sorcerers have. Stam sources love it. Mage sources love it in PvE. I don't even slot shields in trials unless we do a hard mode, because of power surge. Its either you slot a Hardened Ward/Bone Shield or you use Surge. Its an amazing ability and I'd never go back to the previous version. I don't care if its not great in PvP, in PvE its amazing. And TBH, now that no one is shield stacking and we can actually crit, Surge is a great HoT in addition to healing ward.

The shield nerf, is without comments from my part. I really couldn't give a flying **** about the duration. 6 or 20 its all the same when you have a few stamtards hitting on you with their proc sets. Yeah its a little annoying for hard modes in trials but hey who cares, 6 seconds without 1-shots is enough for me.
The point about shields being Cable is true, however, magicka Templars (breath of life) and NBs (cloak) and DK (scales, dragon blood, healing ward, igneous) are faced with the same thing. If you're CC'd you can use your defense mechanics. But you know what? most CC in this game that is dodge able is also block-able so you can always block that Frag an not waste stam for breaking free. I don't find it to be particularly unbearable or anything.

Fully agreed on Streak and Ball of Lightning.

You don't have to keep up both shields 100% of the time. I for example only use Dampen or Harness magicka (switching between the two morphs all the time, can't decide which is better) when I'm really heavily pressured. Hardened Ward takes just enough damage most of the times. When I'm in Cyro with my friends, I don't even bother slotting Dampen Magic, I only use hardened Ward. I literally only use it when I'm solo.

I have 1 question. Have you got a stamina character that you play often? Me personally I main 2 sorcerers, one magicka (since I started playing, still my favorite character for trials AND PvP) and 1 stamina (since between Orsinium and Thieves Guild, rarely PvP with him now, but I do a lot of trials on him). I also actively play a Stam DK in trials only and a Magicka NB in PvP. If you don't play a stamina character, I agree that they may seem extremely OP, but when you don't use a cheesy build, they are pretty hard.

Izaki

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

I use dw as well. My build is not as good as yours is mainly because it is outdated. Streamers always tell us that we should not use dw because it is not as viable as desto resto is now. My shields are awful and I have about 100 points into bastion. I put one up and it gets taken down like 2 seconds later because like you said I am constantly getting hit by 531s using that cancerous 3 proc set...

My build changes all the time, I'm floating between 3 different set-ups and on one I can reach up to 53k magicka while conserving decent stats. Update your build! Its definitely very hard to compete with an outdated build, especially now, where power creep is real.

Minalan

I have a baby stam NB in the pact that I just don't have the heart or the will to level. In BWB or Azuras it's easy mode even without the proc sets.

Other than people sneezing breaking you out of cloak (so many cloak bugs... so many). It's easier. It heals better. It dodges more. The passives are better. There are so many more build options, and you don't need anything better than purple gear to succeed.

Gothren

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

It's very unwise to put 100cp into Bastion because you're only adding 25% to your shield value, whereas if you had 100cp into hardy your shield would take 25% less physical damage. I'm not suggesting you put 100cp into hardy, but I am suggesting you don't put 100cp into bastion, 70cp in bastion is plenty. I don't doubt you know how to play the game, I just thought you ought to know that Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned affect your ward strength too.

nah its way better to max out bastion and then invest in the other 3 perks. Bastion protects against all 3 damage types, whereas the other perks don't. Plus max magicka scales nicely with the maxed out bastion perk.

Minalan

Gothren wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

It's very unwise to put 100cp into Bastion because you're only adding 25% to your shield value, whereas if you had 100cp into hardy your shield would take 25% less physical damage. I'm not suggesting you put 100cp into hardy, but I am suggesting you don't put 100cp into bastion, 70cp in bastion is plenty. I don't doubt you know how to play the game, I just thought you ought to know that Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned affect your ward strength too.

nah its way better to max out bastion and then invest in the other 3 perks. Bastion protects against all 3 damage types, whereas the other perks don't. Plus max magicka scales nicely with the maxed out bastion perk.

Math-wise it's best to stop at the worst point of diminishing return on investment, and start putting the points elsewhere.

For example, when one Bastion point nets you a .1 change, you'll get more out of your points by adding it to Hardy when you get .4 or .2

Strider_Roshin

ZOS please buff Stamina to be as good as a healer as magicka.

Gothren

Minalan wrote: »

Gothren wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

It's very unwise to put 100cp into Bastion because you're only adding 25% to your shield value, whereas if you had 100cp into hardy your shield would take 25% less physical damage. I'm not suggesting you put 100cp into hardy, but I am suggesting you don't put 100cp into bastion, 70cp in bastion is plenty. I don't doubt you know how to play the game, I just thought you ought to know that Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned affect your ward strength too.

nah its way better to max out bastion and then invest in the other 3 perks. Bastion protects against all 3 damage types, whereas the other perks don't. Plus max magicka scales nicely with the maxed out bastion perk.

Math-wise it's best to stop at the worst point of diminishing return on investment, and start putting the points elsewhere.

For example, when one Bastion point nets you a .1 change, you'll get more out of your points by adding it to Hardy when you get .4 or .2

you can max out bastion and still have a good amount of physicial and spell resistances. you get more bang for your buck by investing in more max magicka. i stand by what i say iv shuffled and tested points into and out of hardy and elemental defender. with 55k+ max magicka you start to see a compounding effect with bastion that boosts your shield strength

Minalan

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ZOS please buff Stamina to be as good as a healer as magicka.

Isn't vigor/rally already better than anything on a restoration staff without requiring you to slot a mediocre 2H weapon on your back bar?

Strider_Roshin

Minalan wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

ZOS please buff Stamina to be as good as a healer as magicka.

Isn't vigor/rally already better than anything on a restoration staff without requiring you to slot a mediocre 2H weapon on your back bar?

I haven't seen any stam healers in trials. Have you? So apparently the answer is no, vigor/rally isn't better than the restoration staff in terms of healing.

FriedEggSandwich

Gothren wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Gothren wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

It's very unwise to put 100cp into Bastion because you're only adding 25% to your shield value, whereas if you had 100cp into hardy your shield would take 25% less physical damage. I'm not suggesting you put 100cp into hardy, but I am suggesting you don't put 100cp into bastion, 70cp in bastion is plenty. I don't doubt you know how to play the game, I just thought you ought to know that Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned affect your ward strength too.

nah its way better to max out bastion and then invest in the other 3 perks. Bastion protects against all 3 damage types, whereas the other perks don't. Plus max magicka scales nicely with the maxed out bastion perk.

Math-wise it's best to stop at the worst point of diminishing return on investment, and start putting the points elsewhere.

For example, when one Bastion point nets you a .1 change, you'll get more out of your points by adding it to Hardy when you get .4 or .2

you can max out bastion and still have a good amount of physicial and spell resistances. you get more bang for your buck by investing in more max magicka. i stand by what i say iv shuffled and tested points into and out of hardy and elemental defender. with 55k+ max magicka you start to see a compounding effect with bastion that boosts your shield strength

I've also tested it, to the point where I don't actually put any points into bastion for vMA now because I get better results with the cp in hardy etc. In vMA with 44k magicka and 75cp in bastion I had a 24k hardened ward. With 44k mag and no cp in bastion I have a 20k hardened ward. So 75cp amounted to an extra 4k ward value, which in pvp would only be 2k. 75cp for 2k extra ward strength at 44k mag lol.

CapuchinSeven

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

give us a worthy heal outside of the bloody resto staff.

Yeah this is very much needed, two things I'd really like are a decent magic heal outside of Resto staff (in fact I think Healing Ward should sit in Mage Guild) and a magic hand/1H set.

Minalan wrote: »

I have a baby stam NB in the pact that I just don't have the heart or the will to level. In BWB or Azuras it's easy mode even without the proc sets.

Other than people sneezing breaking you out of cloak (so many cloak bugs... so many). It's easier. It heals better. It dodges more. The passives are better. There are so many more build options, and you don't need anything better than purple gear to succeed.

And this is very true, I swap between stamina and magic NB and in the end I just made a stamina NB but I just don't have the heart to level it. It's easy mode to the point of actually ruining the fun.

Lava_Croft

As long as a Stamina user without Magicka can compete just fine and a Magicka user without Stamina is a soon to be dead player, these issues will never be resolved.

Artis

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

hugocbp wrote: »

They already said next update will be all about balance...

I expect a lot of things everybody complains about here will be addressed in this next patch.

I hope you are right. I've been holding off on crafting more gear for my sorcerer to see if it will be viable again. That was a long time ago...

The_Outsider wrote: »

Now in this update they are such a sad joke

Magicka builds are a sad joke? Let's say this is true. You can't say that you're using a "really old build that no one even uses anymore because it's not viable" and then complain about not being able to go toe-to-toe with Stamina builds... It is the nature of MMOs to change, and players have to change along with the game. Magicka Sorcs have been godmode in the past, so no wonder it feels like you're gimped now.

Now we basically are forced to sacrifice sustain over dps in this update. I don't know if it will ever get better.

The issue with Magicka Sorc in the past was that they didn't have to sacrifice DPS for surviveability like other builds. The change to shield duration was to force more intelligent game-play (defend when being attacked/become vulnerable while attacking) from mSorcs. Imo, ZOS succeeded with that change.

#2cents

My build is very very powerful even in this update but my issue with it is that the sustain is terrible. It was not always terrible like I'm not joking. This build was the strongest and most powerful out of every build for a sorcerer. Except now I have to sacrifice recovery over sustain and I don't like being forced to play with high recovery. My recovery is only at about 900 but that didn't matter because my shields were way stronger and my crystal frags would pretty much 1 hit kill people. I play with a apprentice and I like to play in buffed campaigns in Cyrodiil. I can get up to about 44k max magicka with 5.2k spell damage.

Lol troll detected, didn't last long too.

You can't be serious expecting to have damage and sustain and survivability at the same time. It's a trade off.

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

WHAT?!?! You crazy?! Stamina = more survivability than magicka?!?! In what world?!?! I was talking about PvE trials first of all. So your comment is completely off topic (PvP not equal PvE). In PvE, magicka is much more survivable and outputs just as much damage as stamina. And I'm not talking about trash AoE pulls yet..

You are the one who is off topic. It's a PvP forum and the thread was created to discuss balance in the context of PvP. PvE is absolutely irrelevant to this thread.

SilentBoomstick

Nah man, I run a Sorc exclusively. I'm not going to sit and insult you back here, because we're on the same side and I think you're just frustrated and taking it out on me.

The julianos/torugs/will build you described isn't 5.2K spell damage, I did the same build way back. I found that it worked better with more max magicka instead.

Max magicka gives a bigger shield. I've also found this update that a double shield stack is a must on every refresh.

Max magicka is easier to stack than spell damage. You get percentage increase bonuses with undaunted, Mage light, magicka controller, and sets like grace of the ancient. There is no spell damage increase PERCENT bonus other than major/minor sorcery.

Max magicka increases damage, about 10.5 to 1 spell damage. If you use a set like 4 necropotence, and a max magicka monster shoulder, you can pull similar damage with a higher resource pool.

You're going to have to increase your sustain. Spamming two shields is insanely stupidly expensive, you're going to have to use a new witch brew drink or run a whole sustain set like Seducer or alteration mastery. That in addition to spell power pots to keep your blue bar from nose diving with the double shields.

We've been screwed every since dark brotherhood gave us 10% increased costs across the board.

[/quote]

It is though because if you do the math with 3.4k spell damage plus the proc from molag keena is 4k and then the 20% buff that you get from structured entropy is like 1200 more spell damage. However I am not using structured entropy.

That math is not accurate by the ways but it still goes up to that amount.

CapuchinSeven

Lava_Croft wrote: »

As long as a Stamina user without Magicka can compete just fine and a Magicka user without Stamina is a soon to be dead player, these issues will never be resolved.

Totally agree, when a stamina build is out of magic they are slightly annoyed. When a magic player is out of stamina, they are dead.

Artis wrote: »

You can't be serious expecting to have damage and sustain and survivability at the same time. It's a trade off.

To be fair while running Viper and another set, my stamina build has higher burst damage than my magic build, higher sustain than my magic build and what I would call decent survivability with vigor and dodge rolling.

kadar

Minalan wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Make shields stronger is all I can say at this point. It is such a sad joke what they did to us.

We've been screwed every since dark brotherhood gave us 10% increased costs across the board.

Now in this update they are such a sad joke

What exactly has been done to Sorcs since the "good old days" you guys want so badly to return to?

[*] There was a ability cost increase done across the board, which effected every ability in the game.
[*] Crit Surge was changed to a flat value.
[*] Shield duration was reduced to 6 seconds.
[*] Streak got the dodge roll treatment.
[*] Negate got buffed into the ceiling.
[*] Annulment got buffed to include physical as well as spell dmg.

These are the big changes I can think of pertaining to mSorc, some of these being quite old. If this thread is really about getting wrecked by dmg-proc-combo builds, we're all in the same boat there.

1. Stam wasn't hit nearly as hard on the abilit cost increase. Their costs weren't as high as ours to begin with.

2. The surge was a huge nerf. It probably had to happen, but there was no survivability given back to us in exchange. Please don't say 'dark deal', because I can't promise that I won't laugh.

3. Six second shields is too short, eight would have been a fair compromise. Six second shields just puts a higher skill floor on the class, and fewer people can pull it off. To get anything close to five and a half seconds on a shield, you have to cancel the animation. Then do it again every four seconds or so to keep it up and avoid instant stamina macro death. It's kind of ridiculous.

Shields can't really be compared to dodge, because with shields up you can still be feared, immobilized, CC'ed, rooted, thrown up into the air, trapped, etc. We still have the problem where anyone who can count to five and stun you gets free shots at your squishy light armor.

4. Streak was a little harsh. With gap closers being cheap and spammable, streak doesn't need to cost nearly as much as it does.

5. Now we can slot negate and make monkey noises all night deep inside of the huge faceless zerg. Thanks but no thanks. Aw screw it. Ooh ooh! Eeeh! Aaah! *cast negate*

6. You have any idea what it costs to try stacking two shields that only last 3.8 seconds after both of the animations are cancelled? If this is a buff, I'd hate to see what a nerf looks like.

Proc damage sets are just the nasty raw sewage icing on the poo flavored cake that Wrobel baked for us over the last THREE patches of being free AP piñatas for stamina classes.

1) I don't know what this means. ..

5. Now we can slot negate and make monkey noises all night deep inside of the huge faceless zerg. Thanks but no thanks. Aw screw it. Ooh ooh! Eeeh! Aaah! *cast negate*

2) The point I was trying to make was to highlight all of the recent-ish changes to mSorc to avoid all of the dramatic statements about how mSorcs are a joke.

3) To much work to argue each point...

Each of those changes had the cumulative effect of raising the skill cap (like you pointed out, only I think this is a great thing), forcing the sacrifice of raw damage for some sustain, and forcing defensive play when taking heavy damage. Remember back to where mSorcs were before, and it becomes clearer that these are good changes.

I do understand the frustration tho. And I'm not saying that magicka is balanced vs stamina in PVP.Keep in mind I've got 3 Magicka characters myself. There are 2 separate issues that people have been combining into 1. There's Magicka builds vs. Stamina builds, and then there's Dmg-proc-combo builds vs. everthing else. Those are 2 balance issues that need to be addressed.

TheBonesXXX

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Da hell you talking about?! Magicka pulls just as much DPS in trials than stamina now! Okay, pure single target, a stamina dragon knight or a stamina sorcerer might be out putting slightly more (1-2k DPS difference MAX), but anything that involves adds (pretty much all the boss fights in the game) magicka DPS is just as good and usually its higher. What makes magicka better? The survivability.

You fail to recognize that stamina is way more powerful in terms of dps and survivability. They made stamina the meta so obviously it is more overpowered than magicka. Now to my point I tested out my dps on a guy for pvp and I asked him to put on his divines gear, do a heavy attack from stealth as a stamina nightblade, then asked him to put on his impenetrable gear and it was the same amount of damage. Now I switched characters and just did the same thing to test out different abilities such as surpirse attack for stamina, concealed weapon for magicka, lotus fan and then ambush, heavy attack etc. For my stamina I was sitting at around 4.5k buffed weapon damage with 36k maximum stamina, then my magicka was about 42k with 4.5k buffed spell damage. It was so much different in the amount of dps that I did to him. Magicka is obviously less powerful and their is a big difference between who does more damage, not to mention I tested out my heals as well and found that my stamina nightblade had way stronger heals. That is a problem and it definitely needs a patch.

WHAT?!?! You crazy?! Stamina = more survivability than magicka?!?! In what world?!?! I was talking about PvE trials first of all. So your comment is completely off topic (PvP not equal PvE). In PvE, magicka is much more survivable and outputs just as much damage as stamina. And I'm not talking about trash AoE pulls yet.

In PvP you can't mesure damage like that. Absolutely no point. In PvP, I hated playing my stam toons to get Vigor and Caltrops and I'm not a bad PvPer. Yeah sure the damage is good, but the survivability? Unless you're wearing a full set of well-fitted or BlackRose then magicka survivability is much better IMO. Shuffle and roll dodge is all you have along with some HoTs. Magicka? Breath of Life, Healing Ward... Its more than enough to outsell any type of damage that is not a 1-shot. And you have shields, which give crit immunity. If you spec like spell damage is the only stat that matters then of course you're going to get killed easy. Magicka can stack up their resources much higher than stamina. Guess what? Shields scale off resources. So with 50k magicka (easy on NB and Sorc) your shields are strong AF. Templars have healing, damage reduction and access to a shield. DKs?.. Well yeah they kinda suck (#BUFFMAGDK).

Breathe of Life is only applicable to a Templar and Healing Ward is the only good heal Magicka has, it also only works to its full potential within execute range. Healing Ward is not great otherwise, its a great situational heal, but Shuffle allows someone to passively take no damage, its like dodge rolling for free.

Stamina has a better selection of skills that result in better synergy for optimized builds. Magicka players are forced to use shields.

The difference is Stamina gets passive and free damage mitigation, wards have a damage ceiling in which they can be counter acted.

Vigor + 2h heal + Shuffle + immovable has no rivals on the Magicka side.

Minalan

The_Outsider wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Make shields stronger is all I can say at this point. It is such a sad joke what they did to us.

We've been screwed every since dark brotherhood gave us 10% increased costs across the board.

Now in this update they are such a sad joke

What exactly has been done to Sorcs since the "good old days" you guys want so badly to return to?

[*] There was a ability cost increase done across the board, which effected every ability in the game.
[*] Crit Surge was changed to a flat value.
[*] Shield duration was reduced to 6 seconds.
[*] Streak got the dodge roll treatment.
[*] Negate got buffed into the ceiling.
[*] Annulment got buffed to include physical as well as spell dmg.

These are the big changes I can think of pertaining to mSorc, some of these being quite old. If this thread is really about getting wrecked by dmg-proc-combo builds, we're all in the same boat there.

1. Stam wasn't hit nearly as hard on the abilit cost increase. Their costs weren't as high as ours to begin with.

2. The surge was a huge nerf. It probably had to happen, but there was no survivability given back to us in exchange. Please don't say 'dark deal', because I can't promise that I won't laugh.

3. Six second shields is too short, eight would have been a fair compromise. Six second shields just puts a higher skill floor on the class, and fewer people can pull it off. To get anything close to five and a half seconds on a shield, you have to cancel the animation. Then do it again every four seconds or so to keep it up and avoid instant stamina macro death. It's kind of ridiculous.

Shields can't really be compared to dodge, because with shields up you can still be feared, immobilized, CC'ed, rooted, thrown up into the air, trapped, etc. We still have the problem where anyone who can count to five and stun you gets free shots at your squishy light armor.

4. Streak was a little harsh. With gap closers being cheap and spammable, streak doesn't need to cost nearly as much as it does.

5. Now we can slot negate and make monkey noises all night deep inside of the huge faceless zerg. Thanks but no thanks. Aw screw it. Ooh ooh! Eeeh! Aaah! *cast negate*

6. You have any idea what it costs to try stacking two shields that only last 3.8 seconds after both of the animations are cancelled? If this is a buff, I'd hate to see what a nerf looks like.

Proc damage sets are just the nasty raw sewage icing on the poo flavored cake that Wrobel baked for us over the last THREE patches of being free AP piñatas for stamina classes.

1) I don't know what this means. ..

5. Now we can slot negate and make monkey noises all night deep inside of the huge faceless zerg. Thanks but no thanks. Aw screw it. Ooh ooh! Eeeh! Aaah! *cast negate*

2) The point I was trying to make was to highlight all of the recent-ish changes to mSorc to avoid all of the dramatic statements about how mSorcs are a joke.

3) To much work to argue each point...

Each of those changes had the cumulative effect of raising the skill cap (like you pointed out, only I think this is a great thing), forcing the sacrifice of raw damage for some sustain, and forcing defensive play when taking heavy damage. Remember back to where mSorcs were before, and it becomes clearer that these are good changes.

I do understand the frustration tho. And I'm not saying that magicka is balanced vs stamina in PVP.Keep in mind I've got 3 Magicka characters myself. There are 2 separate issues that people have been combining into 1. There's Magicka builds vs. Stamina builds, and then there's Dmg-proc-combo builds vs. everthing else. Those are 2 balance issues that need to be addressed.

Sorry, I meant that we're Zerg surfing negate-monkeys.
Why?
We have dont have the defense or mitigation stam players do. I wouldn't bring me along on a fight unless I paid for all of the soul gems.
We don't have the kind of damage stam players do (bow > destro staff). So why bother?
We do have one clutch ult with a lot of group utility, that's also completely useless in a small scale or 1v1 fight.

I don't think we need an "OMG huge" buff to be competitive. Just a few small tweaks.

* Buff to LA passives to give .25 seconds shield duration and 1% additional max magicka per piece worn. That buffs offense and defense.
* Buff destro staff. Bow gets a 20% cost reduction passive (Ranger), so do the same for destro staff. Then buff touch/reach elemental effect so that it's a viable alternative to force pulse.
* Change streak to a 35% cost increase if used within four seconds.
* Redo overload. Cut the damage and make it a cool channeled chain lightning or something. Make it useful.
* A magicka set that protects against all armor proc damage sets effects including viper, Selene, Red Mountain, and Velidreth.

Obviously I'm joking about the last one. Sort of...

SilentBoomstick

* Buff to LA passives to give .25 seconds shield duration and 1% additional max magicka per piece worn. That buffs offense and defense.
* Buff destro staff. Bow gets a 20% cost reduction passive (Ranger), so do the same for destro staff. Then buff touch/reach elemental effect so that it's a viable alternative to force pulse.
* Change streak to a 35% cost increase if used within four seconds.
* Redo overload. Cut the damage and make it a cool channeled chain lightning or something. Make it useful.
* A magicka set that protects against all armor proc damage sets effects including viper, Selene, Red Mountain, and Velidreth.

Obviously I'm joking about the last one. Sort of...[/quote]

They need to nerf the hell out of stamina. My shields are reduced by 50% so that means like 15k shield and then you have people running around with those extremely cancerous 3 proc sets. Nerf the sets, make them useless. I'm getting very tired of getting bursted down at full health with full shield strength in 2 seconds. Don't tell me learn to play because I am sitting at over 40k magicka pool with 100 cp into bastion. Stamina is too overpowered and it needs a massive nerf.

SilentBoomstick

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

I wear all impen. I know how to play this game. I don't like when I get caught with my shields down and take a 15k incap. With impen I take about 9k. Now it is very unwise to only put 20 cp into bastion because that is how you make your shields stronger. It still does not matter what I do because my shield strength is not strong enough and I constantly feel heavily reliant on my shields. I get really tired of having to play defense like 90% of a fight because sometimes I literally have to stop dpsing and start spamming my shields over and over and over again.

Make shields stronger is all I can say at this point. It is such a sad joke what they did to us.

I am also a vampire by the way. As a sorcerer you don't really need to put points into reduced resistance because shields are what keep you alive.

It's very unwise to put 100cp into Bastion because you're only adding 25% to your shield value, whereas if you had 100cp into hardy your shield would take 25% less physical damage. I'm not suggesting you put 100cp into hardy, but I am suggesting you don't put 100cp into bastion, 70cp in bastion is plenty. I don't doubt you know how to play the game, I just thought you ought to know that Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned affect your ward strength too.

You know I actually did try that. I put about 40 cp into bastion and then it was about 70 into harder the rest into elemental defender. It didn't work very well.

TheBonesXXX

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

TheBonesXXX wrote: »

give us a worthy heal outside of the bloody resto staff.

Yeah this is very much needed, two things I'd really like are a decent magic heal outside of Resto staff (in fact I think Healing Ward should sit in Mage Guild) and a magic hand/1H set.

Minalan wrote: »

I have a baby stam NB in the pact that I just don't have the heart or the will to level. In BWB or Azuras it's easy mode even without the proc sets.

Other than people sneezing breaking you out of cloak (so many cloak bugs... so many). It's easier. It heals better. It dodges more. The passives are better. There are so many more build options, and you don't need anything better than purple gear to succeed.

And this is very true, I swap between stamina and magic NB and in the end I just made a stamina NB but I just don't have the heart to level it. It's easy mode to the point of actually ruining the fun.

They definitely need to incorporate the Battle Mage style for magicka players and incorporate a magic based melee weapon.

FriedEggSandwich

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

I wear all impen. I know how to play this game. I don't like when I get caught with my shields down and take a 15k incap. With impen I take about 9k. Now it is very unwise to only put 20 cp into bastion because that is how you make your shields stronger. It still does not matter what I do because my shield strength is not strong enough and I constantly feel heavily reliant on my shields. I get really tired of having to play defense like 90% of a fight because sometimes I literally have to stop dpsing and start spamming my shields over and over and over again.

Make shields stronger is all I can say at this point. It is such a sad joke what they did to us.

I am also a vampire by the way. As a sorcerer you don't really need to put points into reduced resistance because shields are what keep you alive.

It's very unwise to put 100cp into Bastion because you're only adding 25% to your shield value, whereas if you had 100cp into hardy your shield would take 25% less physical damage. I'm not suggesting you put 100cp into hardy, but I am suggesting you don't put 100cp into bastion, 70cp in bastion is plenty. I don't doubt you know how to play the game, I just thought you ought to know that Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned affect your ward strength too.

You know I actually did try that. I put about 40 cp into bastion and then it was about 70 into harder the rest into elemental defender. It didn't work very well.

You know what? I don't believe you. Mainly because of this:

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

My shields are awful and I have about 100 points into bastion. I put one up and it gets taken down like 2 seconds later because like you said I am constantly getting hit by 531s using that cancerous 3 proc set...

But it's cool, I'm done here anyway, this thread is a mess.

thankyourat

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

I wear all impen. I know how to play this game. I don't like when I get caught with my shields down and take a 15k incap. With impen I take about 9k. Now it is very unwise to only put 20 cp into bastion because that is how you make your shields stronger. It still does not matter what I do because my shield strength is not strong enough and I constantly feel heavily reliant on my shields. I get really tired of having to play defense like 90% of a fight because sometimes I literally have to stop dpsing and start spamming my shields over and over and over again.

Make shields stronger is all I can say at this point. It is such a sad joke what they did to us.

I am also a vampire by the way. As a sorcerer you don't really need to put points into reduced resistance because shields are what keep you alive.

It's very unwise to put 100cp into Bastion because you're only adding 25% to your shield value, whereas if you had 100cp into hardy your shield would take 25% less physical damage. I'm not suggesting you put 100cp into hardy, but I am suggesting you don't put 100cp into bastion, 70cp in bastion is plenty. I don't doubt you know how to play the game, I just thought you ought to know that Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned affect your ward strength too.

You know I actually did try that. I put about 40 cp into bastion and then it was about 70 into harder the rest into elemental defender. It didn't work very well.

You know what? I don't believe you. Mainly because of this:

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

My shields are awful and I have about 100 points into bastion. I put one up and it gets taken down like 2 seconds later because like you said I am constantly getting hit by 531s using that cancerous 3 proc set...

But it's cool, I'm done here anyway, this thread is a mess.

There is some truth to it though I run about 80 points into bastion I find it more useful than hardy and elemental defender because it will absorb both physical and magic damage. I'm not even using impen and crit resist anymore there's no point cause my shield is huge (only 1 cause I play magblade) and my shield is always up so I can't be crit anyway. The only time my shield is down is if I'm out of magicka or stamina so I'm going to die regardless. But i feel it is much better to pump up your shield strength first than use what's leftover for your other resist

Minalan

thankyourat wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

I wear all impen. I know how to play this game. I don't like when I get caught with my shields down and take a 15k incap. With impen I take about 9k. Now it is very unwise to only put 20 cp into bastion because that is how you make your shields stronger. It still does not matter what I do because my shield strength is not strong enough and I constantly feel heavily reliant on my shields. I get really tired of having to play defense like 90% of a fight because sometimes I literally have to stop dpsing and start spamming my shields over and over and over again.

Make shields stronger is all I can say at this point. It is such a sad joke what they did to us.

I am also a vampire by the way. As a sorcerer you don't really need to put points into reduced resistance because shields are what keep you alive.

It's very unwise to put 100cp into Bastion because you're only adding 25% to your shield value, whereas if you had 100cp into hardy your shield would take 25% less physical damage. I'm not suggesting you put 100cp into hardy, but I am suggesting you don't put 100cp into bastion, 70cp in bastion is plenty. I don't doubt you know how to play the game, I just thought you ought to know that Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned affect your ward strength too.

You know I actually did try that. I put about 40 cp into bastion and then it was about 70 into harder the rest into elemental defender. It didn't work very well.

You know what? I don't believe you. Mainly because of this:

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

My shields are awful and I have about 100 points into bastion. I put one up and it gets taken down like 2 seconds later because like you said I am constantly getting hit by 531s using that cancerous 3 proc set...

But it's cool, I'm done here anyway, this thread is a mess.

There is some truth to it though I run about 80 points into bastion I find it more useful than hardy and elemental defender because it will absorb both physical and magic damage. I'm not even using impen and crit resist anymore there's no point cause my shield is huge (only 1 cause I play magblade) and my shield is always up so I can't be crit anyway. The only time my shield is down is if I'm out of magicka or stamina so I'm going to die regardless. But i feel it is much better to pump up your shield strength first than use what's leftover for your other resist

Is the DOT damage resist CP worth it?

thankyourat

Minalan wrote: »

thankyourat wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

I wear all impen. I know how to play this game. I don't like when I get caught with my shields down and take a 15k incap. With impen I take about 9k. Now it is very unwise to only put 20 cp into bastion because that is how you make your shields stronger. It still does not matter what I do because my shield strength is not strong enough and I constantly feel heavily reliant on my shields. I get really tired of having to play defense like 90% of a fight because sometimes I literally have to stop dpsing and start spamming my shields over and over and over again.

Make shields stronger is all I can say at this point. It is such a sad joke what they did to us.

I am also a vampire by the way. As a sorcerer you don't really need to put points into reduced resistance because shields are what keep you alive.

It's very unwise to put 100cp into Bastion because you're only adding 25% to your shield value, whereas if you had 100cp into hardy your shield would take 25% less physical damage. I'm not suggesting you put 100cp into hardy, but I am suggesting you don't put 100cp into bastion, 70cp in bastion is plenty. I don't doubt you know how to play the game, I just thought you ought to know that Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned affect your ward strength too.

You know I actually did try that. I put about 40 cp into bastion and then it was about 70 into harder the rest into elemental defender. It didn't work very well.

You know what? I don't believe you. Mainly because of this:

SilentBoomstick wrote: »

My shields are awful and I have about 100 points into bastion. I put one up and it gets taken down like 2 seconds later because like you said I am constantly getting hit by 531s using that cancerous 3 proc set...

But it's cool, I'm done here anyway, this thread is a mess.

There is some truth to it though I run about 80 points into bastion I find it more useful than hardy and elemental defender because it will absorb both physical and magic damage. I'm not even using impen and crit resist anymore there's no point cause my shield is huge (only 1 cause I play magblade) and my shield is always up so I can't be crit anyway. The only time my shield is down is if I'm out of magicka or stamina so I'm going to die regardless. But i feel it is much better to pump up your shield strength first than use what's leftover for your other resist

Is the DOT damage resist CP worth it?

I have about 6% in mine because I had some points leftover. I would put some in there though just because of poison injection alone lol that thing hits way to hard

Malamar1229

Gothren wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

It's very unwise to put 100cp into Bastion because you're only adding 25% to your shield value, whereas if you had 100cp into hardy your shield would take 25% less physical damage. I'm not suggesting you put 100cp into hardy, but I am suggesting you don't put 100cp into bastion, 70cp in bastion is plenty. I don't doubt you know how to play the game, I just thought you ought to know that Hardy, Elemental Defender and Thick Skinned affect your ward strength too.

nah its way better to max out bastion and then invest in the other 3 perks. Bastion protects against all 3 damage types, whereas the other perks don't. Plus max magicka scales nicely with the maxed out bastion perk.

no youre wrong.
Proof- im a better sorc than you are

-Makkir

melloni_aleb16_ESO

Buff magicka?! NO THK !

and ..i have almost all char stamina and there's need a serious nerf to stamina-set-proc and revitalize the medium armor

there 's no need further dodge-roll nerf or increase the cost of stamina skill, simply review the proc and limit them (also the damage)

All stamina ( Nb apart) wearing HA ( black rose ) s/s and 2h

It's ridiculous that a person in heavy does the same damage ( with proc-set) of one in medium, and has better sustain over the resistance ..all of this in sword/shield

I thought there was a limit to idiocy ... but obviously I was wrong. PvP has become something abhorrent .
I always tried to play alone or small group, but it is unplayable , or zerg or you die in 2 sec from proc-build

Wrobel balance this game as I speak English ...very bad