Destro staff ultimate bugged in pvp?

CapuchinSeven · October 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

While you're channeling Soul Assault that will tic for around 7k per tic if you're super lucky in PvP..you could be doing double that with Destro Ult/light attack/force shock..... While moving mind you

This is, as per the other poster really just picking at a random example rather than the overall point I keep making. But I understand I made that example so I'll clarify better.

I use Shatter Soul (Soul Assault with AOE damage on kill) with VD and Proxy, that's what I use it for, that's how I use it in a group. (EDIT: I also think it has its uses with Mark Target vs stamblades trying to dodge roll away from the group).

I use Shooting Star with Elegant and Inner Light, that's my normal build. With Mage Guild passives Shooting Star with Inner Light I can sit at around 44k magic, with Elegant and Inner Light I can get very hard hitting Destro' staff heavy attacks from stealth or cloak.

So just for general clarity (not directly aimed at you poster) about what I'm saying, the only point I'm making is -

EOTS is a great ultimate and everything OdinForge said about it is fair and true BUT for MY build a 250 cost is very high (Shatter costs me 100 and it's pretty much always back up again and works well when I'm attacking groups and Shooting Star gives me very high magicka, which I need with slow regen and also helps me hit harder and it will also refund its cost).

I don't think stating that it's good but costly is really anything other than factual.

I won't address comments about "EU scrubs" or "lol you once asked a question about killing WWs" because frankly I'm above it.

OdinForge · October 2016

Shatter Soul, lol. Dude we were talking about 1v1, and it now comes out you're using shatter soul, proxy and VD. Back in post #58 I clearly explained that I'd demonstrate its use in a 1v1 scenario. The kinds of builds you describe in #92 are not viable for solo or 1v1 gameplay. So when I mentioned you probably weren't using it right, you should have just explained the builds you were running.

Why would you argue with me for 2 pages about something, when your build style doesn't even fit the criteria.

CapuchinSeven · October 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

Shatter Soul, lol. Dude we were talking about 1v1, and it now comes out you're using shatter soul, proxy and VD. Back in post #58 I clearly explained that I'd demonstrate its use in a 1v1 scenario. The kinds of builds you describe in #92 are not viable for solo or 1v1 gameplay. So when I mentioned you probably weren't using it right, you should have just explained the builds you were running.

Why would you argue with me for 2 pages about something, when your build style doesn't even fit the criteria.

I've not argued with you, I agreed with you repeatedly, more than once. I simply disagreed with you on one single point.

ToRelax · October 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

Shatter Soul, lol. Dude we were talking about 1v1, and it now comes out you're using shatter soul, proxy and VD. Back in post #58 I clearly explained that I'd demonstrate its use in a 1v1 scenario. The kinds of builds you describe in #92 are not viable for solo or 1v1 gameplay. So when I mentioned you probably weren't using it right, you should have just explained the builds you were running.

Why would you argue with me for 2 pages about something, when your build style doesn't even fit the criteria.

So what are the criteria for solo and 1v1 gameplay?

OdinForge · October 2016

Not vicious death, shatter soul and proxy det.

Dreyloch · October 2016

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I, as a solo player, hate that skill already so deep from the bottom of my heart. You know why? The only usage I`ve seen is groups of 6-12 scrubs chasing me and dropping that on my head when im nailed down by gap close spam and snares/immobilizes.

And I am not even allowed to block those absurd amounts of incoming damage. Thats so dumb, im out of words here. I just cannot counter gap close spam + unblockable damage outnumbered. Should all solo players just die in cyrodiil? Another tool which will be used more by bigger groups against smaller ones.

Make this skill blockable for the sake of the little smallscale play you have left in your game, ZOS.

Wasn`t streamlining and consistency between ultimates (making them unfreflectable, the discussion about dodgability, etc.) THE big issue lately? Why now starting the same circle again and make some unbashable, some unblockable? Does ZOS have any long term plan on balance or are we just redoing what we have changed shortly before and keep that cycle going until the last sane mind has left eso?

So let me get this straight. (well off topic, but I have to say this). Your complaining about an ability being used by groups when your soloing in Cyrodiil? Isn't it folks like you that begged and F'n pleaded for dueling?!?!? You've finally got it, and your complaining about basically being a ganker (lowest form of life in the game, but that's only MY opinion), and getting yer arse kicked by groups?!?!? Newsflash friend. Get out of Cyrodiil and go duel somewhere in a fight that's fair for both involved eh?

' I just cannot counter gap close spam + unblockable damage outnumbered." In what world do you think you should be able to? It's a group based area. You don't need to be in one to enter, but it's at your own risk if you wanna play that way. Stop trying to nerf skills because of your lack to socialize and be in a group.

CapuchinSeven · October 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

Not vicious death, shatter soul and proxy det.

Sorry, I'm confused after I pointed out my current group build, I said -

"I use Shooting Star with Elegant and Inner Light, that's my normal build. With Mage Guild passives Shooting Star with Inner Light I can sit at around 44k magic, with Elegant and Inner Light I can get very hard hitting Destro' staff heavy attacks from stealth or cloak".

How is that not a 1v1 build? I said that's my normal build right there in the post, I should have maybe said 1v1 build rather than the word normal.

OdinForge · October 2016

I've explained this so many times, and others in this thread have as well.

My very first point was that EOTS is practically a guaranteed kill in a 1v1, even against good players. EOTS is for only 50 more ultimate than meteor. EOTS is so good you can start a duel with it and immediately shut down your opponent, but you'll never be able to do that with meteor (or any other ultimate available) idc how high your damage output is.

EOTS enables you to dish out 30K+ (damage will vary obviously, but even as low as 15K damage is enough for a kill) unblockable damage in a wide AOE radius within 6 seconds. It'll rip through shields and healing and while it's working you're dishing our CC and burst damage.

You cannot do this with meteor. So assuming you are running a smart build capable of taking on the worst of the stamina meta 1v1 (think blackrose + velidreth or tremor + viper), EOTS is leagues above what any other ultimate is capable of doing regardless of the cost.

Obviously there are exceptions to the guaranteed kill thing. Very high HP tanks will survive one or two rotations, the kinds of tanks that don't attack and just defend and flee. This is really assuming you're fighting someone who's interested in fighting back.

OdinForge · October 2016

I'm not discussing this anymore, if you refuse to understand my point about EOTS that's okay.

No one saw the use for this skill when it went through PTS, I didn't really either. Magicka builds just took the time to whine about not getting cool stuff.

But this ultimate is a giant unavoidable slap to the face to anyone not running 40K HP. Time will show it.

CapuchinSeven · October 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

I'm not discussing this anymore, if you refuse to understand my point about EOTS that's okay.

No one saw the use for this skill when it went through PTS, I didn't really either. Magicka builds just took the time to whine about not getting cool stuff.

But this ultimate is a giant unavoidable slap to the face to anyone not running 40K HP. Time will show it.

Are you just weird or something?
I keep repeating over and over again that you're right.

I actually keep posting because I'm actually fascinated by your ability to keep having an argument that no one else seems to be having.

It's like you keep posting "omg it's great, you guys don't even know" and I reply, "yeah I agree it's awesome but I can't handle a 250 cost in my current build right now" and you reply "omg why won't you accept it's awesome!?".

I told you I'd try it again at your advice and I did, and then said I'd go back again and try it some more, and I did.

I can't handle a 250 cost in my current build, I EVEN said I'd try it again when I move to more group play or a better sustain build but right now if I can't kill someone before I hit 250 ultimate with my low regen then I've probably already screwed up.

One more time, you are right! It's a good ultimate and EOTS makes it a way better ultimate than I expected when I saw it on paper, I'll have another crack at it when my build next changes and I get tired of running low regen.

FriedEggSandwich · October 2016

Dreyloch wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I, as a solo player, hate that skill already so deep from the bottom of my heart. You know why? The only usage I`ve seen is groups of 6-12 scrubs chasing me and dropping that on my head when im nailed down by gap close spam and snares/immobilizes.

And I am not even allowed to block those absurd amounts of incoming damage. Thats so dumb, im out of words here. I just cannot counter gap close spam + unblockable damage outnumbered. Should all solo players just die in cyrodiil? Another tool which will be used more by bigger groups against smaller ones.

Make this skill blockable for the sake of the little smallscale play you have left in your game, ZOS.

Wasn`t streamlining and consistency between ultimates (making them unfreflectable, the discussion about dodgability, etc.) THE big issue lately? Why now starting the same circle again and make some unbashable, some unblockable? Does ZOS have any long term plan on balance or are we just redoing what we have changed shortly before and keep that cycle going until the last sane mind has left eso?

So let me get this straight. (well off topic, but I have to say this). Your complaining about an ability being used by groups when your soloing in Cyrodiil? Isn't it folks like you that begged and F'n pleaded for dueling?!?!? You've finally got it, and your complaining about basically being a ganker (lowest form of life in the game, but that's only MY opinion), and getting yer arse kicked by groups?!?!? Newsflash friend. Get out of Cyrodiil and go duel somewhere in a fight that's fair for both involved eh?

' I just cannot counter gap close spam + unblockable damage outnumbered." In what world do you think you should be able to? It's a group based area. You don't need to be in one to enter, but it's at your own risk if you wanna play that way. Stop trying to nerf skills because of your lack to socialize and be in a group.

He's not a ganker, and I didn't get any of that from that post. What I got from that post is that there is currently no counter to the eye of the storm morph because it isn't blockable and you can't get out of its way; there is literally nothing you can do except cc the user and hope they don't break free, or just take the no small amount of damage. That's not balanced, things need counters, even soul assault that everybody complained about has one counter, meteor has 2 counters, my atronach has about 3 counters as does overload. No consistency between ultis. Get it?

Derra · October 2016

Dreyloch wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I, as a solo player, hate that skill already so deep from the bottom of my heart. You know why? The only usage I`ve seen is groups of 6-12 scrubs chasing me and dropping that on my head when im nailed down by gap close spam and snares/immobilizes.

And I am not even allowed to block those absurd amounts of incoming damage. Thats so dumb, im out of words here. I just cannot counter gap close spam + unblockable damage outnumbered. Should all solo players just die in cyrodiil? Another tool which will be used more by bigger groups against smaller ones.

Make this skill blockable for the sake of the little smallscale play you have left in your game, ZOS.

Wasn`t streamlining and consistency between ultimates (making them unfreflectable, the discussion about dodgability, etc.) THE big issue lately? Why now starting the same circle again and make some unbashable, some unblockable? Does ZOS have any long term plan on balance or are we just redoing what we have changed shortly before and keep that cycle going until the last sane mind has left eso?

So let me get this straight. (well off topic, but I have to say this). Your complaining about an ability being used by groups when your soloing in Cyrodiil? Isn't it folks like you that begged and F'n pleaded for dueling?!?!? You've finally got it, and your complaining about basically being a ganker (lowest form of life in the game, but that's only MY opinion), and getting yer arse kicked by groups?!?!? Newsflash friend. Get out of Cyrodiil and go duel somewhere in a fight that's fair for both involved eh?

' I just cannot counter gap close spam + unblockable damage outnumbered." In what world do you think you should be able to? It's a group based area. You don't need to be in one to enter, but it's at your own risk if you wanna play that way. Stop trying to nerf skills because of your lack to socialize and be in a group.

That you´re assuming that everyone who tries to have fun in cyro without a grp is automatically a ganker is pretty sad.

Master_Kas · October 2016

The ult is so bad, should have a lower cost!!

Had to try

Mojomonkeyman · October 2016

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

.

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I, as a solo player, hate that skill already so deep from the bottom of my heart. You know why? The only usage I`ve seen is groups of 6-12 scrubs chasing me and dropping that on my head when im nailed down by gap close spam and snares/immobilizes.

And I am not even allowed to block those absurd amounts of incoming damage. Thats so dumb, im out of words here. I just cannot counter gap close spam + unblockable damage outnumbered. Should all solo players just die in cyrodiil? Another tool which will be used more by bigger groups against smaller ones.

Make this skill blockable for the sake of the little smallscale play you have left in your game, ZOS.

Wasn`t streamlining and consistency between ultimates (making them unfreflectable, the discussion about dodgability, etc.) THE big issue lately? Why now starting the same circle again and make some unbashable, some unblockable? Does ZOS have any long term plan on balance or are we just redoing what we have changed shortly before and keep that cycle going until the last sane mind has left eso?

Come back to the magicka side, then you can just streak out of it I will concede that the eye of the storm should probably be blockable just so it has a counter, but not the static one please cos that will then have 2 counters. Nice to have you back on ad btw.

Thanks for the nice words! Enjoying my AD char atm quite a bit, when the faction isn`t too dominant.

Yeah, it`s really just the unblockable part that bothers me, since it eliminates most of my options outnumbered. Guess I have to do fake turnarounds while kiting and hope the groups will panic release the ult, before I actually do take the fight.

Learning process, but not one I enjoy since it makes life so much easier for little to no effort, again, for groups against me.

JaJaLuka · October 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

The cost of the ult is fine, for the damage it does.

Agreed, if this was a cheaper ult it would be OP as hell.

CapuchinSeven · October 2016

This seems to work really well in a sustain build, I seem to be able to slot a little more health and two sustain sets over what I'd normally run and then you keep yourself alive while building ultimate and then unload it after a cripple and then fear/reach CC after you start it.

Kas · October 2016

it's true that EOT(S/F/C) is very strong. Tried both ends of it (much more playing against it, though). However, it's not as duel-breaking as you make it to be. On my stamplar, speedpots (e.g. immovable, stamina, major expedition) + binding javelin + sprint (+ trap behind me if i want) counter the ult in a fairly reliable fashion. Not saying it's bad, but yesterday I met a number of players (albeit no "famous" ones, but they already had their duellist title at least and were hanging out in duel spots) and I beat every one of them on a stam-meta build (6-7 heavy br+viper+bloodspawn stamplar). Okay, I didn't find an enemy trying something like using the same pots or block-costing lotus fan, or whatever else makes my counter impossible, but at least I have yet to learn to fear this ult.

Again, I think you're right in general: the ult is incredibly strong, so strong this AoE ult is even VERY powerful in 1v1 / duels. However, in my experience it's absolutely not game-breaking and I find current stamsorcs significantly worse to deal with and nothing comes close to dark-bortherhood-pts incap-strike (that thankfully never went live) in terms of duel-breaking.

OdinForge · October 2016

On my end I was consistently beating very good duelers in the typical black rose+viper meta setups. Most of the time within one ult cast, sometimes it'd take two. Whereas my opponents were dropping twice the amount of dawnbreakers against me. There are things you can do to minimize the danger of the ult. You can apply maim to the person, you can probably use quick cloak for both a damage reduction and speed. You can root and then CC them while moving away. But while you're trying to move away from the ult, you're still taking damage. The damage occurs within only 6 seconds.

I would love to fight a good magicka player using EoTS, with various setups on my stamina toons (meta, non-meta, medium etc). So that I can try out various things to counter of minimize the danger. But I cannot find anyone on my server using it at all. All of my friends are stamina mains, and only some of them have recently starting leveling magicka toons. My only experience with this ult is from the perspective of using it myself.

Magus · October 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

On my end I was consistently beating very good duelers in the typical black rose+viper meta setups. Most of the time within one ult cast, sometimes it'd take two. Whereas my opponents were dropping twice the amount of dawnbreakers against me. There are things you can do to minimize the danger of the ult. You can apply maim to the person, you can probably use quick cloak for both a damage reduction and speed. You can root and then CC them while moving away. But while you're trying to move away from the ult, you're still taking damage. The damage occurs within only 6 seconds.

I would love to fight a good magicka player using EoTS, with various setups on my stamina toons (meta, non-meta, medium etc). So that I can try out various things to counter of minimize the danger. But I cannot find anyone on my server using it at all. All of my friends are stamina mains, and only some of them have recently starting leveling magicka toons. My only experience with this ult is from the perspective of using it myself.

I haven't gotten the morph of it yet but if I can catch someone in the unmorphed and they stand in it, they melt. Up to level IV on it and should be able to morph it today and try some duels with it. 1v1 it seems very counterable to get away from it but it is going to be very strong in groups. I was running the unmorphed last night and was melting groups with it.

OdinForge · October 2016

Magus wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

On my end I was consistently beating very good duelers in the typical black rose+viper meta setups. Most of the time within one ult cast, sometimes it'd take two. Whereas my opponents were dropping twice the amount of dawnbreakers against me. There are things you can do to minimize the danger of the ult. You can apply maim to the person, you can probably use quick cloak for both a damage reduction and speed. You can root and then CC them while moving away. But while you're trying to move away from the ult, you're still taking damage. The damage occurs within only 6 seconds.

I would love to fight a good magicka player using EoTS, with various setups on my stamina toons (meta, non-meta, medium etc). So that I can try out various things to counter of minimize the danger. But I cannot find anyone on my server using it at all. All of my friends are stamina mains, and only some of them have recently starting leveling magicka toons. My only experience with this ult is from the perspective of using it myself.

I haven't gotten the morph of it yet but if I can catch someone in the unmorphed and they stand in it, they melt. Up to level IV on it and should be able to morph it today and try some duels with it. 1v1 it seems very counterable to get away from it but it is going to be very strong in groups. I was running the unmorphed last night and was melting groups with it.

Hey Maoh,

Try the EoTS morph, it's a pretty big difference compared to the umorphed one. I don't think I'd ever use the other morph, unless strictly for group play. I can only really see it being useful in a place like Imperial City where you can sometimes have a big group in a tight space, with a well timed negate and root.

I know you're a pretty solid player, if you're interested in doing some friendly testing with it later let me know.

Magus · October 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

On my end I was consistently beating very good duelers in the typical black rose+viper meta setups. Most of the time within one ult cast, sometimes it'd take two. Whereas my opponents were dropping twice the amount of dawnbreakers against me. There are things you can do to minimize the danger of the ult. You can apply maim to the person, you can probably use quick cloak for both a damage reduction and speed. You can root and then CC them while moving away. But while you're trying to move away from the ult, you're still taking damage. The damage occurs within only 6 seconds.

I would love to fight a good magicka player using EoTS, with various setups on my stamina toons (meta, non-meta, medium etc). So that I can try out various things to counter of minimize the danger. But I cannot find anyone on my server using it at all. All of my friends are stamina mains, and only some of them have recently starting leveling magicka toons. My only experience with this ult is from the perspective of using it myself.

I haven't gotten the morph of it yet but if I can catch someone in the unmorphed and they stand in it, they melt. Up to level IV on it and should be able to morph it today and try some duels with it. 1v1 it seems very counterable to get away from it but it is going to be very strong in groups. I was running the unmorphed last night and was melting groups with it.

Hey Maoh,

Try the EoTS morph, it's a pretty big difference compared to the umorphed one. I don't think I'd ever use the other morph, unless strictly for group play. I can only really see it being useful in a place like Imperial City where you can sometimes have a big group in a tight space, with a well timed negate and root.

I know you're a pretty solid player, if you're interested in doing some friendly testing with it later let me know.

If I remember later, I'll send you a tell once I get the morph and we can test it out. I think the main counters in a 1v1 revolve around CC and kiting, so immovable pots would be needed for the EoTSer to see what kind of pressure it can add combined with puncturing sweeps, blazing shards, and valkyn skoria.

Sallington · October 2016

DarJar wrote: »

When I try to put seige down in pvp with a fully charged destro staff ultimate, instead of the seige going down, the destro staff ultimate goes off. This even occurs if I bar swap before putting the seige down.

Is this the case for anyone else or just me?

Oh, so THAT'S what happened last night to me. I thought I was seeing things when placing a siege launched my ult.

Then I couldn't even place my siege afterward...

The bugs they come up with just blow my mind.

Claire · October 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

I would love to fight a good magicka player using EoTS, with various setups on my stamina toons (meta, non-meta, medium etc). So that I can try out various things to counter of minimize the danger. But I cannot find anyone on my server using it at all.

Well, I don't know if I qualify as a "good magicka player" but I do have fully leveled EotS for crash test dummy use.

OdinForge · October 2016

Claire wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

I would love to fight a good magicka player using EoTS, with various setups on my stamina toons (meta, non-meta, medium etc). So that I can try out various things to counter of minimize the danger. But I cannot find anyone on my server using it at all.

Well, I don't know if I qualify as a "good magicka player" but I do have fully leveled EotS for crash test dummy use.

I can do just a simple numbers test. Where I can wear various sets of gear (light, medium and heavy) and builds, to see how the* damage works out. And various skills, shields and passives/debuffs like quick cloak or maim. If you're on NA PC server, and you're interested in the above shoot me a mail @OdinForge

I'd still like to someone to test duel who knows how to use the ultimate, preferably someone close to or at CP cap.

HoloYoitsu · October 2016

Group v Group certainly centers on negate + eye combos now, toss in encase and ice staff root spam and GG. If you can't get out of the negate all you can do is block, and you can't block eye. Don't really need heal debuffs when they can't cast heals in the negates, might as well just stack another eye. Add in Grothdarr and you don't really even have to be actively using dmg skills once you drop the ults - as a sorc, negate and lightning form ticks are enough to keep it proc'd.

Really enjoying this meta where the game plays itself for me while I just stand around pressing encase.

Magus · October 2016

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Group v Group certainly centers on negate + eye combos now, toss in encase and ice staff root spam and GG. If you can't get out of the negate all you can do is block, and you can't block eye. Don't really need heal debuffs when they can't cast heals in the negates, might as well just stack another eye. Add in Grothdarr and you don't really even have to be actively using dmg skills once you drop the ults - as a sorc, negate and lightning form ticks are enough to keep it proc'd.

Really enjoying this meta where the game plays itself for me while I just stand around pressing encase.

Shh edit that out please. Don't need to spoon feed strategies to that potato masses. lol

HoloYoitsu · October 2016

Magus wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Group v Group certainly centers on negate + eye combos now, toss in encase and ice staff root spam and GG. If you can't get out of the negate all you can do is block, and you can't block eye. Don't really need heal debuffs when they can't cast heals in the negates, might as well just stack another eye. Add in Grothdarr and you don't really even have to be actively using dmg skills once you drop the ults - as a sorc, negate and lightning form ticks are enough to keep it proc'd.

Really enjoying this meta where the game plays itself for me while I just stand around pressing encase.

Shh edit that out please. Don't need to spoon feed strategies to that potato masses. lol

TIL standing still pressing encase is strategy. What has this game come to?

Magus · October 2016

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Group v Group certainly centers on negate + eye combos now, toss in encase and ice staff root spam and GG. If you can't get out of the negate all you can do is block, and you can't block eye. Don't really need heal debuffs when they can't cast heals in the negates, might as well just stack another eye. Add in Grothdarr and you don't really even have to be actively using dmg skills once you drop the ults - as a sorc, negate and lightning form ticks are enough to keep it proc'd.

Really enjoying this meta where the game plays itself for me while I just stand around pressing encase.

Shh edit that out please. Don't need to spoon feed strategies to that potato masses. lol

TIL standing still pressing encase is strategy. What has this game come to?

Well you don't need to read the tool tips on your abilities or something, right?

HoloYoitsu · October 2016

Magus wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Magus wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Group v Group certainly centers on negate + eye combos now, toss in encase and ice staff root spam and GG. If you can't get out of the negate all you can do is block, and you can't block eye. Don't really need heal debuffs when they can't cast heals in the negates, might as well just stack another eye. Add in Grothdarr and you don't really even have to be actively using dmg skills once you drop the ults - as a sorc, negate and lightning form ticks are enough to keep it proc'd.

Really enjoying this meta where the game plays itself for me while I just stand around pressing encase.

Shh edit that out please. Don't need to spoon feed strategies to that potato masses. lol

TIL standing still pressing encase is strategy. What has this game come to?

Well you don't need to read the tool tips on your abilities or something, right?

True, and I do "feel awesome firing off dark deal in the middle of combat."

Bashev · October 2016

Sanct16 wrote: »

Eye of the storm will be the main ultimate for pvp groups in 1 month. It's the best ultimate in the game by far.

Wise words.