Destro staff ultimate bugged in pvp?

CapuchinSeven · October 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

Let's be honest here, no good player is dying to soul assault 1v1 post the changes made in One Tamriel. You can block the damage while healing, not to mention still attack the player stuck in animation. It doesn't matter how many times you cast that ability within the time-frame of one EoTS.

A stronger argument could be made for Soul Harvest at 50 ultimate, but the damage is too low.

Meteor cost just 50 less ultimate than EoTS. You get far less damage, the ability to cleanse the damage and you can block before it hits you. It's a huge telegraph, and EoTS is as well but you cannot block or escape the damage.

For 250 ultimate you lose the cons of all cheaper ultimates.

That didn't really answer the question.

What are you doing with EOTS that I can't just teleport out of?

And that's not meant to sound dismissive, I just don't see how it's THAT much better in 1v1 than any other Ultimate.

OdinForge · October 2016

This is your statement.

I'm not saying it's not a powerful fight ending ability if used right but in 1v1 I can say the same for Soul Assault and Meteor. So how, given that sentence am I not using it right or how is it any different than a 100 ultimate ability?

I answered that in my last post, I won't repeat it again here.

@CapuchinSeven are you really trying to imply that you'll always have a shade up to port to? And what happens if I pop a detect pot and gap close to your location? What happens if I wait for your shade to expire, you cannot put it back up and move away fast enough to actually use it.

The ultimate lasts for about 6 seconds and in that time frame can do upwards of 30K unblockable damage single target. If I root you and CC you, that's 2 seconds of damage you have no choice but to take. Your shields / healing and resistance will not keep you alive. It's not just the ult that's ticking against you, but the rest of my damage as well.

Think about that, I'm not going to keep explaining this. I'll just upload a video later of how it can be used outnumbered and 1v1.

OdinForge · October 2016

Not to mention that if you cannot escape the ultimate at the start, I can CC you right away and by the time the ult ends I can CC you AGAIN. If somehow you did manage to survive it'd be within an inch of life, and the second CC would guarantee the kill.

Simple.

Minno · October 2016

[

manny254 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

manny254 wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Berenhir wrote: »

Lol you have no idea. Destro Ultimate is amazing for AvA, just put on some Skoria and VD and corner a big group. Its like carpet bombing, just sick.

Edit: Didn't run into any issues with either morph. Prefer the ranged one though.

I dunno about this. It's been used against me several times and I just walked out of it.

Same, I dunno where this view that the Destro' staff ultimate is great is coming from, I've been hit with it twice in PVP and I walked out of it both times.

And the, do this then this then this then this to get a kill with it is kinda makes me wrinkle my brow, I could pretty much say that about most Ultimates.

Plus MOST of the complaints about it came pre-buff, which it had shortly after after it had been stated it wouldn't be changed.

The buff made EOTS a much nastier option.

I'll have to PvP eventually after I do my required set farming to test out counters. But if @Joy_Division can walk out of its ranged on a Templar, I'd imagine most stam builds can run away too.

Can this ultimate be interrupted? Are people running more than 25k spell resistance? Are people running poisons? Is it purgable? Are players doing their best to use ranged abilities and maintain distance (like they do for bats?)

Still lots of questions to explore. Granted the obvious con to using this ultimate is that you have to slot the destro staff, a skill line where most of the skills' dmg hits for less than 1k and you lose the potential for extra set bonuses.

There is no moving out of the morph that follows. If you are getting zerged there is essentially no counter.

If being zerged, it might make sense to slot these:
DK: Magma Shell to give players a shield to help take the dmg (it send dmg reduction or shield help play a part in defending).

Nightblade: summon shade to get the hell out of dodge.

Templar: healing

Sorc: streak, shield, using range to counter their dps negate.

DK: If you are relying on a defensive ult while outnumbered you are just never going to be able to kill properly. If you need a completely defensive ult to counter one skill there is a problem. Also consider multiple enemies can slot the skills. So good luck having magma up for every player using it.

Nightblade: So I should just always have a shade up every second? Seriously shade is also almost useless if you are playing with even just one other person. Let me just abandon them to die.

Templar: Good luck out healing high unblockable damage while getting pressured by multiple players. Hell I would challenge you to out heal 2 good players for the duration of this ult.

Sorc: Good luck doing any of that while getting gap closer spammed.

Just trying to think of possible counters since the patch is roughly a week old and haven't been in pvp yet. The response definitely doesn't need the "doom and gloom" poetry attached.

Sounds like the game balance is still "plagued" by the "zerg mentality". Not much we can do except wait for battlegrounds, balance patch and Camelot Unchained. You could nerf it, but players will still complain about x ability used against them while trying to slam your toon into a zerg

You could emphasis a test of stacking dmg mitigation since that's the easiest way to defend without doing anything (CP, major protection, armor.). If this skill is insta-gibbing at 30k armor+8 % mitigation+ 13% elemental mitigation, then I'd say we have an issue. But there's only so much dmg you can take anyway. if you take your solo-artist into a zerg, 1k x 34 is still 34k dmg in a matter of seconds and most builds run around with 24k health at most.

Mojomonkeyman · October 2016

I, as a solo player, hate that skill already so deep from the bottom of my heart. You know why? The only usage I`ve seen is groups of 6-12 scrubs chasing me and dropping that on my head when im nailed down by gap close spam and snares/immobilizes.

And I am not even allowed to block those absurd amounts of incoming damage. Thats so dumb, im out of words here. I just cannot counter gap close spam + unblockable damage outnumbered. Should all solo players just die in cyrodiil? Another tool which will be used more by bigger groups against smaller ones.

Make this skill blockable for the sake of the little smallscale play you have left in your game, ZOS.

Wasn`t streamlining and consistency between ultimates (making them unfreflectable, the discussion about dodgability, etc.) THE big issue lately? Why now starting the same circle again and make some unbashable, some unblockable? Does ZOS have any long term plan on balance or are we just redoing what we have changed shortly before and keep that cycle going until the last sane mind has left eso?

CapuchinSeven · October 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

@CapuchinSeven are you really trying to imply that you'll always have a shade up to port to?

...what good Nightblade with Shade teleport on their bar doesn't have a Shade active 95% of a 1v1 fight...?

OdinForge wrote: »

Think about that, I'm not going to keep explaining this.

I did think about it, you still haven't given any real reason why this is better in 1v1 at 250 Ultimate than any other Ultimate costing less.

Your argument is, no good player would die to Soul Assault but good players will die to EOTS and then list a load of "what ifs" to describe how you'd make sure someone died to it if they teleport out of it.

...well what are you going to do with I've poison sapped your stamina to nothing, hit you with Flame Reach, hit you with Soul Assault and Impale? We can all state what ifs, we can even sit here and state what ifs to what ifs and what ifs to those what ifs but the fact is you've really not given me any reason to think that JUST for 1v1s it's really THAT much better than any other well played and timed ultimate.

I'm not saying it's not great I'm just not buying that with that 250 cost it's any more or less effective than any other decent ultimate in 1v1. In fact it damn well better be good for 250 ultimate cost.

Hell if you want a what if, good luck building up 250 Ultimate when you're hit by a Onslaught from stealth.

Derra · October 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Eye of the storm will be the main ultimate for pvp groups in 1 month. It's the best ultimate in the game by far.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/288639/official-discussion-thread-for-weapon-ultimates/p10

Hmmm

@Derra

Typhoios wrote: »

But everyone told me on the PTS that Eye of the Storm was just a more expensive Batswarm and nobody would ever use it. I love the kneejerk reactions before testing from this community.

That's because people are morons who don't bother testing...Or understand game mechanics

Which was before it was buffed two times before going live so whats the point (i still think the original version would not have seen much use and even with the 6s version ppl would think about it´s use more than now with 7s of unblockable lolzdmg).

It was always pointed out that for this ultimate to get used it would have to be buffed to stupidly op levels - as it only deals dmg. That´s exactly what happened.
Also my point is always written from the pov of a sorc player where it competes with negate in pvp. That one is still a close call in my opinion.

OdinForge · October 2016

Weren't you the guy that opened the thread asking how to beat Werewolves 1v1 with magnb? If you have trouble killing Werewolves 1v1 or If you're getting 1 shot by onslaught from stealth, you probably don't belong in this discussion.

You can't use soul assault and impale dude..lol.

Minno · October 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

Weren't you the guy that opened the thread asking how to beat Werewolves 1v1 with magnb? If you have trouble killing Werewolves 1v1 or If you're getting 1 shot by onslaught from stealth, you probably don't belong in this discussion.

You can't use soul assault and impale dude..lol.

He meant after the channel.

OdinForge · October 2016

The time it takes between canceling your soul assault to initiate an impale, your target is going to shield or heal back above execute, or just kill you since the ultimate is so harmless 1v1 now.

Minno · October 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

The time it takes between canceling your soul assault to initiate an impale, your target is going to shield or heal back above execute, or just kill you since the ultimate is so harmless 1v1 now.

Why would you cancel SA. If they do some dmg, stun, pop SA, youll be in low execute range and he can roll with impale in conjunction with other skills.

Seems viable. Though I roll a Templar and most nightblades are easy to face.

OdinForge · October 2016

You don't have to cancel soul assault, if you let the channel end you're left with that same gap of time.

It's irrelevant because we're talking 1v1 and it's very easy to out-heal the blockable damage from SA. Or even easier to shield stack through it, it's no threat these days.

Minno · October 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

You don't have to cancel soul assault, if you let the channel end you're left with that same gap of time.

It's irrelevant because we're talking 1v1 and it's very easy to out-heal the blockable damage from SA. Or even easier to shield stack through it, it's no threat these days.

That makes sense. Though that last point is the exact argument Templars have been making in defense of Radiant Destruction lol.

Minalan · October 2016

The only bad thing I see with this ability: A double proc set stam nightblade is going to use dawnbreaker on you twice before you save up enough ult to use this once.

Meaning. You won't survive long enough to do it in a small scale fight.

I will give it props for being an area denial tool though. I'm sure the solo NB rock humpers are going to be upset about it, but it's about time that toxic play style had a counter to it.

OdinForge · October 2016

I have problems with lazy solutions to issues, that promote very lazy game-play. Jesus beam is a lazy solution and it promotes lazy game-play. There are a lot of these problems now, everything from skills to gear.

Jesus beam spam is irrelevant 1v1, a Templar that knows how to fight can use it effectively 1v1. Soul assault is irrelevant now 1v1, you can just block and heal through it.

You can't do *** against EoTS. Idk if this is good or bad, but it's probably bad once it catches on.

CapuchinSeven · October 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

Weren't you the guy that opened the thread asking how to beat Werewolves 1v1 with magnb? If you have trouble killing Werewolves 1v1 or If you're getting 1 shot by onslaught from stealth, you probably don't belong in this discussion.

You can't use soul assault and impale dude..lol.

Look, I know you have a well known forum rep for being the guy that can't handle it when people disagree with him, but I like to give people a fair shake of the stick and not listen to reputations but if THIS is the kind of post I can expect from you then I'm done here.

Firstly you've made two strawman comments as a reply to what was a perfectly decent conversation between two people discussion points that they disagreed on like gentlemen and gownups.

Secondly, I'm a scientist, an ex serving solider, I work in a very technical environment and I matured past the age of 12 therefor I have ZERO ego problem with asking a question when I am having difficultly with a problem, on the month I returned to the game I'd noticed I'd had trouble with updated WWs so I asked. That's how it works when you're a grown up.

I said I had no problem accepting the ability was good and that I would try it in group play. You're the one that just dropped it to this level.

OdinForge · October 2016

Dude I couldn't care less if you disagree with me. I offered to show you in-game why this ultimate is an issue, and you either declined by ignoring that offer or just failed to notice it. That's a forum rep you've made up on your own, doesn't mean it applies to me, maybe you?

I offered to show you in-game in the form of a friendly magnb vs stamnb, or a magnb soul assault vs magnb EoTS duel. It's easier to understand something like this when you experience it in person.

Who even uses flame reach seriously anymore though, I mean come on.

CapuchinSeven · October 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

I offe.....

...I'm in the EU.

OdinForge wrote: »

Who even uses flame reach seriously anymore though, I mean come on.

Oh look another strawman.

I stated a what if, and pulled a CC out of my head because I still find the knockback and DOT useful to use for 1v1 with Stamblades.

dodgehopper_ESO · October 2016

Minalan wrote: »

Destro ult is bugged. After using the ult, it also messes up the targeting recticle for liquid lightning as well.

Not only does the ult cost too much, but ZOS clearly didn't care enough to put this through basic play testing.

PS: nobody has reported this until now, because nobody else uses it..

But hey, all of the new stam ultimates and damage proc sets work GREAT!

The bow ultimate being a channel should not be dodged. I'd say that puts a fly in your ointment. Either way I don't expect things to work perfectly when they patch stuff. In fact I generally cut off my addons and wait a week or two when they do these major updates, because I KNOW it'll just get glitched. I'm personally more annoyed by the pvp grouping bugs, or the way I spend only 1 hour out of 5 actually pvp'ng vs. the continual load screens and crashes I'm getting in Cyrodiil.

dodgehopper_ESO · October 2016

Aquanova wrote: »

I thought stam builds we're more concerned with "Soul Assault"

I wonder if "Panacea" will avoid this scrutiny

I play mostly Stamina builds, and I have to say I'm happy to see Soul Assault is not crap anymore.

OdinForge · October 2016

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Who even uses flame reach seriously anymore though, I mean come on.

Oh look another strawman.

I stated a what if, and pulled a CC out of my head because I still find the knockback and DOT useful to use for 1v1 with Stamblades.

And that goes back to my comment where you probably aren't using EoTS right. Flame reach is completely outclassed for magnb CC, you can play the game how you like but we're playing two completely different versions of the game. I'm playing the version of ESO where soul assault gets shrugged off like a tickle after its nerf, and you're shooting fire wheels at EU noobs?

Carry on.

FriedEggSandwich · October 2016

.

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

I, as a solo player, hate that skill already so deep from the bottom of my heart. You know why? The only usage I`ve seen is groups of 6-12 scrubs chasing me and dropping that on my head when im nailed down by gap close spam and snares/immobilizes.

And I am not even allowed to block those absurd amounts of incoming damage. Thats so dumb, im out of words here. I just cannot counter gap close spam + unblockable damage outnumbered. Should all solo players just die in cyrodiil? Another tool which will be used more by bigger groups against smaller ones.

Make this skill blockable for the sake of the little smallscale play you have left in your game, ZOS.

Wasn`t streamlining and consistency between ultimates (making them unfreflectable, the discussion about dodgability, etc.) THE big issue lately? Why now starting the same circle again and make some unbashable, some unblockable? Does ZOS have any long term plan on balance or are we just redoing what we have changed shortly before and keep that cycle going until the last sane mind has left eso?

Come back to the magicka side, then you can just streak out of it

I will concede that the eye of the storm should probably be blockable just so it has a counter, but not the static one please cos that will then have 2 counters. Nice to have you back on ad btw.

CapuchinSeven · October 2016

OdinForge wrote: »

Dude I couldn't care less if you disagree with me. I offered to show you in-game why this ultimate is an issue, and you either declined by ignoring that offer or just failed to notice it. That's a forum rep you've made up on your own, doesn't mean it applies to me, maybe you?

I offered to show you in-game in the form of a friendly magnb vs stamnb, or a magnb soul assault vs magnb EoTS duel. It's easier to understand something like this when you experience it in person.

Who even uses flame reach seriously anymore though, I mean come on.

OdinForge wrote: »

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

Who even uses flame reach seriously anymore though, I mean come on.

Oh look another strawman.

I stated a what if, and pulled a CC out of my head because I still find the knockback and DOT useful to use for 1v1 with Stamblades.

And that goes back to my comment where you probably aren't using EoTS right. Flame reach is completely outclassed for magnb CC, you can play the game how you like but we're playing two completely different versions of the game. I'm playing the version of ESO where soul assault gets shrugged off like a tickle after its nerf, and you're shooting fire wheels at EU noobs?

Carry on.

ooooh more strawmen! What's next? Appealing to authority?

Actually I only use it when I 1v1 Stamblades, of which there are many bad ones, because I find it easier to catch them mid CC with mark and then the DOT adds to cripple with Soul Assault to finish.

For others I'd use Lotus Fan and Soul Harvest after a heavy flame staff attack from stealth.

Really, outside of a strawman, I don't know see what this has to do with 250 ultimate being too high for my liking for 1v1.

Simple as that. Just not keen on high costs for 1v1. I didn't say it's not good OR that it's not viable or in fact that anything you've said wasn't true, for 250 ultimate it should be!

OdinForge wrote: »

and you're shooting fire wheels at EU noobs?

So edgy!

Joy_Division · October 2016

I think this is an overreaction.

I did walk out of several ranged versions. I did notice its damage was potent, but I have no issue with a stationary and (very) temporary high damaging ult. I still think the cheaper negate is the superior choice for a ranged ultimate by quite a bit.

As far as the morph that centers on the caster, I don't have much experience with that, but I still think it's way too early to call it OP. I would agree that this morph should be blockable since it is not a ground AOE. Speaking for myself, I would rather slot bats since it is cheaper and will keep me alive. If bats does not aid me in getting a kill, it will turn a fight I am losing into one I am winning. That's a 150 cost ultimate I can slot with any weapon. This destro ultimate is 100 points more expensive and has to be better (aside from forcing the user to use a particular weapon). Maybe I will change my mind with more experience.

I think the ranged version has to keep the high damage short duration mechanic, otherwise it is worse than useless. Perhaps the caster version could be reverted back to the moderate damage over a longer duration if many are still convinced in a month it's too good.

OdinForge · October 2016

I don't want to risk being the one that starts the "this is OP, please nerf". That's not my intention with this, it's just crazy how easy it is to shut someone down with it. I've been playing magnb for a very long time using every kind of ult available to it until now, and I've never felt like I could press my ult and get a kill so simply as this.

Time will tell.

Xsorus · October 2016

CapuchinSeven wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

@CapuchinSeven You're just not using it right.

If anyone here is still doubting this abilities use 1v1, I encourage you to collaborate with me to demonstrate how to use it. I'm on PC NA and my @name is the same as my forum name, just send me a mail. Just grab a stamina toon with some medium armor to start.

I spent all night screwing over some of the best players NA. If none of you disbelievers here will take me up on this, I'll just put together a video later and update this post.

But how am I not using it right? I didn't say it wasn't perfectly fine once I had 250 ultimate but if I'd used Soul Assault I'd have had the same player dead twice over.

I'm not saying it's not a powerful fight ending ability if used right but in 1v1 I can say the same for Soul Assault and Meteor. So how, given that sentence am I not using it right or how is it any different than a 100 ultimate ability?

While you're channeling Soul Assault that will tic for around 7k per tic if you're super lucky in PvP..you could be doing double that with Destro Ult/light attack/force shock..... While moving mind you

Xsorus · October 2016

Derra wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Eye of the storm will be the main ultimate for pvp groups in 1 month. It's the best ultimate in the game by far.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/288639/official-discussion-thread-for-weapon-ultimates/p10

Hmmm

@Derra

Typhoios wrote: »

But everyone told me on the PTS that Eye of the Storm was just a more expensive Batswarm and nobody would ever use it. I love the kneejerk reactions before testing from this community.

That's because people are morons who don't bother testing...Or understand game mechanics

Which was before it was buffed two times before going live so whats the point (i still think the original version would not have seen much use and even with the 6s version ppl would think about it´s use more than now with 7s of unblockable lolzdmg).

It was always pointed out that for this ultimate to get used it would have to be buffed to stupidly op levels - as it only deals dmg. That´s exactly what happened.
Also my point is always written from the pov of a sorc player where it competes with negate in pvp. That one is still a close call in my opinion.

I also made a post right afterwards showing you STILL bitching about it after it got buffed multiple times... I also don't recall it ever being Blockable on PTS in the first place as well. Granted I wasn't specifically looking to see if it was Blockable because it was nasty enough that Dodge rolling out of it was basically the only option you had because who the hell wants to hold block and slowly walk out of a 10 Meter Radius PBAE. The Ability itself was never ***....It was actually quite powerful but i'm guessing a lot of you chose not to actually test it on PTS.

Darnathian · October 2016

Lol. Magplar wearing Valkyn Skoria and using that ulti. Then drop a shard in there and spam jb. Maybe some VD to for good measure

Derra · October 2016

Xsorus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Eye of the storm will be the main ultimate for pvp groups in 1 month. It's the best ultimate in the game by far.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/288639/official-discussion-thread-for-weapon-ultimates/p10

Hmmm

@Derra

Typhoios wrote: »

But everyone told me on the PTS that Eye of the Storm was just a more expensive Batswarm and nobody would ever use it. I love the kneejerk reactions before testing from this community.

That's because people are morons who don't bother testing...Or understand game mechanics

Which was before it was buffed two times before going live so whats the point (i still think the original version would not have seen much use and even with the 6s version ppl would think about it´s use more than now with 7s of unblockable lolzdmg).

It was always pointed out that for this ultimate to get used it would have to be buffed to stupidly op levels - as it only deals dmg. That´s exactly what happened.
Also my point is always written from the pov of a sorc player where it competes with negate in pvp. That one is still a close call in my opinion.

I also made a post right afterwards showing you STILL bitching about it after it got buffed multiple times... I also don't recall it ever being Blockable on PTS in the first place as well. Granted I wasn't specifically looking to see if it was Blockable because it was nasty enough that Dodge rolling out of it was basically the only option you had because who the hell wants to hold block and slowly walk out of a 10 Meter Radius PBAE. The Ability itself was never ***....It was actually quite powerful but i'm guessing a lot of you chose not to actually test it on PTS.

Edit: Reread. Care to explain what exactly your point is? Like i really don´t get what you want to say.

Most of the comments i´ve made about it were related to redundance of it´s design - as it has multiple other ultimates competing for the same use. This critique is still true and i´m still convivinced the destro ultimate as is was not a great addition to the game.
I still think it´s a lazy designed spell and has no place in the game. It´s just masked by the fact that it got buffed to a point where it´s outperforming everything else dmg wise.

Also the ultimate was not powerful prior to the first 20% dmg and the second 16.6% dmg buff.

ToRelax · October 2016

Well I can see how this might be useful for a group somewhat lacking in AoE damage... like ours. But not enough to have everyone use it, I think 1-2 of those might do the trick. IDK wether Nova will be worth it with this competing, just because of the high cost. At least one Shifting Standard would probably still be useful and Negate anyway.
Also, this is stupidly lazy design and not at all what destro staff needed.