Boneshield back to health based :/ well that was a tease.

Firerock2 · May 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Aspi90 wrote: »

They could have just leave one morph with a shield scaling of stam and one scaling of health.

PLEASE JUST DO THIS, SO MUCH LESS DRAMA.

@Wrobel

No, a shield that scales off of stamina is a stupid idea because stamina builds already have enough defense with dodge roll and they can block far longer than magicka builds. Bone shield needs to remain the way it is.

Must be nice to spam your damage shield. If I spammed dodge rolls I'd be out of stamina within seconds.

Sorc shield stacking is a problem, but the solution isn't to give stamina classes access to an incredibly powerful shield. Stamina DK's and Stamina NB's are already strong they don't need to get a ridiculous damage shield. BTW don't spam dodge roll like a scrub.

Lol the shield wasn't for PvP. Stamina does have the luxury of having decent resource management like a magicka user does. The shield was for PvE since stamina users have to eat a ceremonial guard's fire breath in the face; unlike magicka users, whom can out-heal the fire breath or pop on a shield to nullify all damage. Reverting this change just made this move useless again. Good job ZOS.

This would "PvE" shield would have greatly affected PvP. I see PvP balance far more important than PvE's since it is far more competitive. Then again I guess you can call PvE competitive by doing the same content over and over again to get better times. Still though PvP balance > PvE balance.

FriedEggSandwich · May 2016

Rune_Relic wrote: »

As a primarily stamina NB with the most to lose.....scaling a shield off stamina is just as OP as scaling a shield off magicka.

It's more op. Stamina builds can dodge, block and break free more than magicka builds, this isn't opinion. A damage shield is a legit form of mitigation. Stam builds should have none, magicka builds should get to use no more than one, this is my opinion.

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

As a primarily stamina NB with the most to lose.....scaling a shield off stamina is just as OP as scaling a shield off magicka.

And yet mag builds have 3 shields and stam builds have 0.

And the fix for that is to have them all scale off health like they always should have (and Dodging needs to be nerfed a bit more too probably), if anyone wants to have a good defense you should actually have to spec for it instead of maximizing one resource and gaining both high damage and defense, it boggles the mind that something which makes so very little sense could ever have been allowed to continue for so long.

Direct heals like vigor, rally, all the resto staff skills and most of the templar heals all scale off your damage stat and max resource pool. This is an example of a defensive mechanic scaling with damage that everyone thinks is fine.

Lucius_Aelius · May 2016

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

As a primarily stamina NB with the most to lose.....scaling a shield off stamina is just as OP as scaling a shield off magicka.

It's more op. Stamina builds can dodge, block and break free more than magicka builds, this isn't opinion. A damage shield is a legit form of mitigation. Stam builds should have none, magicka builds should get to use no more than one, this is my opinion.

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

As a primarily stamina NB with the most to lose.....scaling a shield off stamina is just as OP as scaling a shield off magicka.

And yet mag builds have 3 shields and stam builds have 0.

And the fix for that is to have them all scale off health like they always should have (and Dodging needs to be nerfed a bit more too probably), if anyone wants to have a good defense you should actually have to spec for it instead of maximizing one resource and gaining both high damage and defense, it boggles the mind that something which makes so very little sense could ever have been allowed to continue for so long.

Direct heals like vigor, rally, all the resto staff skills and most of the templar heals all scale off your damage stat and max resource pool. This is an example of a defensive mechanic scaling with damage that everyone thinks is fine.

I was actually just thinking about that after my post and I honestly don't know exactly how that should be sorted, it's not as much of an issue I think because Healing tends to be more costly and less effective than just stacking Damage Shields, so Shields have been the focus of my attention. I think though that perhaps all healing should scale off of the Health of the person being Healed, buffed if necessary so that healing isn't useless on anyone with relatively few Health Points, and that would be a nice boon for Tanks and good reason to spec into more Health for a bigger punch with all your heals.

Actually in retrospect I think it's just as much of an issue, just less obvious because when someone stacks Damage Shields it's more obvious that the Shields are are the issue, but lots of healing is HoT so even when it's happening it's just not as obvious, and there's probably lots of fights I lost because of it but just didn't notice. And usually when I fight someone who burst heals I can either kill them or neither of us is able to kill each other at all, and I've run a Healing debuff but no debuff to damage shields so my build is specifically geared towards stopping people who heal more than I accounted for.

Skitttles · May 2016

I did not support a stam shield at all. It would have been too strong and mandatory to have on your bar. However the health based version is useless to pretty much everyone. Why not change this skill entirely to something non shield related. Maybe a spammable stam dd for a stam sorc tehe

Delegator · May 2016

I'm actually looking forward to using a health-based bone shield on my DK now that it will block all types of damage. The physical-only damage mitigation made it pretty well worthless, or at least not worth a slot. It makes a non-templar high-hp tank viable.

karakondzula · May 2016

I love that change, finally i can make a viable health build.

Cathexis · May 2016

Firerock2 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Aspi90 wrote: »

They could have just leave one morph with a shield scaling of stam and one scaling of health.

PLEASE JUST DO THIS, SO MUCH LESS DRAMA.

@Wrobel

No, a shield that scales off of stamina is a stupid idea because stamina builds already have enough defense with dodge roll and they can block far longer than magicka builds. Bone shield needs to remain the way it is.

@Firerock2 Dodge roll is not a universal defense. Dodge cannot avoid dots, curses, dets, channeled attacks, siege, just to name a few key things. Dodge also has an exponential cost increase. Blocking longer hardly makes up for that. Shields provide defense for EVERYTHING, can absorb damage indefinitely, can't be crit, and get stronger with offensive stats.

They are in no way even close to equal.

Cathexis · May 2016

karakondzula wrote: »

I love that change, finally i can make a viable health build.

@karakondzula point me to a viable PvP health build would you... And sitting in a zerg spamming resto purge proxy does not constitute a viable PvP build. That's just an AP farm build, you can literally put just about any skills on your bar and be viable in a zerg.

karakondzula · May 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

karakondzula wrote: »

I love that change, finally i can make a viable health build.

@karakondzula point me to a viable PvP health build would you... And sitting in a zerg spamming resto purge proxy does not constitute a viable PvP build. That's just an AP farm build, you can literally put just about any skills on your bar and be viable in a zerg.

Hell no, i'm not giving away my build. Zergs have nothing on me.

Cathexis · May 2016

karakondzula wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

karakondzula wrote: »

I love that change, finally i can make a viable health build.

@karakondzula point me to a viable PvP health build would you... And sitting in a zerg spamming resto purge proxy does not constitute a viable PvP build. That's just an AP farm build, you can literally put just about any skills on your bar and be viable in a zerg.

Hell no, i'm not giving away my build. Zergs have nothing on me.

Ok so I'm going to bet you are likely running a DK or templar, and likely deal very little damage.

Not only that, but if they have nothing on you, why do you need a damage shield?..

strikeback1247 · May 2016

Firerock2 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Aspi90 wrote: »

They could have just leave one morph with a shield scaling of stam and one scaling of health.

PLEASE JUST DO THIS, SO MUCH LESS DRAMA.

@Wrobel

No, a shield that scales off of stamina is a stupid idea because stamina builds already have enough defense with dodge roll and they can block far longer than magicka builds. Bone shield needs to remain the way it is.

Must be nice to spam your damage shield. If I spammed dodge rolls I'd be out of stamina within seconds.

Sorc shield stacking is a problem, but the solution isn't to give stamina classes access to an incredibly powerful shield. Stamina DK's and Stamina NB's are already strong they don't need to get a ridiculous damage shield. BTW don't spam dodge roll like a scrub.

Lol the shield wasn't for PvP. Stamina does have the luxury of having decent resource management like a magicka user does. The shield was for PvE since stamina users have to eat a ceremonial guard's fire breath in the face; unlike magicka users, whom can out-heal the fire breath or pop on a shield to nullify all damage. Reverting this change just made this move useless again. Good job ZOS.

This would "PvE" shield would have greatly affected PvP. I see PvP balance far more important than PvE's since it is far more competitive. Then again I guess you can call PvE competitive by doing the same content over and over again to get better times. Still though PvP balance > PvE balance.

Lmao.

The_Legendary_Arya · May 2016

Im happy with it, cause i can still use Boneshield on my Healthplar with next Patch then.

karakondzula · May 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

karakondzula wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

karakondzula wrote: »

I love that change, finally i can make a viable health build.

@karakondzula point me to a viable PvP health build would you... And sitting in a zerg spamming resto purge proxy does not constitute a viable PvP build. That's just an AP farm build, you can literally put just about any skills on your bar and be viable in a zerg.

Hell no, i'm not giving away my build. Zergs have nothing on me.

Ok so I'm going to bet you are likely running a DK or templar, and likely deal very little damage.

Not only that, but if they have nothing on you, why do you need a damage shield?..

Actually i deal good damage overall against groups and medium damage on single target. Might not be enough to kill pro's 1 on 1, but they sure cant kill me in any scenario (unless i go afk), build is made for tanking and annoying enemies after all, and for that role is more than just viable.

Joy_Division · May 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

karakondzula wrote: »

I love that change, finally i can make a viable health build.

@karakondzula point me to a viable PvP health build would you... And sitting in a zerg spamming resto purge proxy does not constitute a viable PvP build. That's just an AP farm build, you can literally put just about any skills on your bar and be viable in a zerg.

Viable build

Cathexis wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Aspi90 wrote: »

They could have just leave one morph with a shield scaling of stam and one scaling of health.

PLEASE JUST DO THIS, SO MUCH LESS DRAMA.

@Wrobel

No, a shield that scales off of stamina is a stupid idea because stamina builds already have enough defense with dodge roll and they can block far longer than magicka builds. Bone shield needs to remain the way it is.

@Firerock2 Dodge roll is not a universal defense. Dodge cannot avoid dots, curses, dets, channeled attacks, siege, just to name a few key things. Dodge also has an exponential cost increase. Blocking longer hardly makes up for that. Shields provide defense for EVERYTHING, can absorb damage indefinitely, can't be crit, and get stronger with offensive stats.

They are in no way even close to equal.

Just because you yell, doesn't make you correct.

Shield provide defense for EVERYTHING, huh? What happens if I have a shield and I get hit by a templar's javelin? I get stunned. What happens if I dodge the javelin? It misses entirely, no stun. Apparently shields don't defend against everything. However, the dodge roll completely negated the Javelin.

Llilium · May 2016

dimensional wrote: »

Bone Shield is a damage shield intended for health stacking tanks, which is a much needed buff given how they currently perform. So I'm glad they did this.

I'm a health stacking tank. bone shield is worthless because when i cast it, a third of my freaking stam disapears to do so.

it's a catch 22, because i know that shield spamming, dodge roll spamming players would abuse it if it scaled off their primary stat. they have high stam, so not only can they AFFORD the resources to use it, but it's STRENGTHENED by their primary resource that also allows them to dodge roll, block, attack, etc. the killer though, at the same time, ONLY stam builds have the resources to even use the damn shield in the first place because it's so expensive.

with it being so expensive, it sure doesn't mitigate a lot, particularly in cyrodil. health stackers like be can have a good 32k health if we build for enough stam to be able to block, taunt and do our jobs as a tank. 30% of 32k is a good amount of health for a shield. at 32k health bone shield should be shielding for like 9k. at 2500 health bone shield should be shielding 7200, but these are cut in HALF in cyrodil. the problem is, the cost is balanced for PvE and its kind of O.K. in PvP its WAY too freaking high. 3500 stamina for a 15% health shield? thats about 1/3rd stam out of my bar for a 3000 health shield if i'm stacking health instead of stam. a shield that goes away after a single hit from any loser in cyrodil.

what they need to do now is balance the cost. it needs to cost 50-60% the stam as it does now. this will benefit PvE tanks greatly with all the horse crap they've been screwing us with on block costs. this will also benefit pvp tanks because we can have the stam to CC and do our jobs, plus have survivability to take a couple extra hits. and lastly it will not scale off stam, and stam users will still be able to benefit because it'll scale off their little health pools and they can still dodge and be the fancy milk drinkers they are.

NativeJoe · May 2016

Llilium wrote: »

dimensional wrote: »

Bone Shield is a damage shield intended for health stacking tanks, which is a much needed buff given how they currently perform. So I'm glad they did this.

I'm a health stacking tank. bone shield is worthless because when i cast it, a third of my freaking stam disapears to do so.

it's a catch 22, because i know that shield spamming, dodge roll spamming players would abuse it if it scaled off their primary stat. they have high stam, so not only can they AFFORD the resources to use it, but it's STRENGTHENED by their primary resource that also allows them to dodge roll, block, attack, etc. the killer though, at the same time, ONLY stam builds have the resources to even use the damn shield in the first place because it's so expensive.

with it being so expensive, it sure doesn't mitigate a lot, particularly in cyrodil. health stackers like be can have a good 32k health if we build for enough stam to be able to block, taunt and do our jobs as a tank. 30% of 32k is a good amount of health for a shield. at 32k health bone shield should be shielding for like 9k. at 2500 health bone shield should be shielding 7200, but these are cut in HALF in cyrodil. the problem is, the cost is balanced for PvE and its kind of O.K. in PvP its WAY too freaking high. 3500 stamina for a 15% health shield? thats about 1/3rd stam out of my bar for a 3000 health shield if i'm stacking health instead of stam. a shield that goes away after a single hit from any loser in cyrodil.

what they need to do now is balance the cost. it needs to cost 50-60% the stam as it does now. this will benefit PvE tanks greatly with all the horse crap they've been screwing us with on block costs. this will also benefit pvp tanks because we can have the stam to CC and do our jobs, plus have survivability to take a couple extra hits. and lastly it will not scale off stam, and stam users will still be able to benefit because it'll scale off their little health pools and they can still dodge and be the fancy milk drinkers they are.

Sad part... they'll look at this... double take on equilibrium... and go....hrmmm okay... sacrifice 15% of your life to gain a 30% of your life shield. Which actually might not be to bad come to think of it. wow I have more "designer" skill at designing skills joking then Zos does "trying" lol... but for this to work the shield amount would have to have it's duration increased to 20-30 seconds (if your in a battle thats one thing, but traveling from point a to point B as a tank ur not going to have the health to keep spamming it. and honestly there is no reason to compound the issue with annoyance)

Justice31st · May 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

So I guess stam sorcs will continue to have no way to repell damage from multiple opponents.

I was worried there for a minute, I thought maybe I would actually come back to playing this game but it seems I will be getting my life back again.

#notbuyingdarkbrotherhood.
#banginhottiesinstead

Then I am thankful you won't be coming back. High damage + High damage mitigation. OP much?

The_Great_Maldini · May 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

#banginhottiesinstead

Your cousin doesn't count.

#rimshot

IcyDeadPeople · May 2016

Cathexis wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

As a primarily stamina NB with the most to lose.....scaling a shield off stamina is just as OP as scaling a shield off magicka.

And yet mag builds have 3 shields and stam builds have 0.

Only hardened ward scales off max magicka, providing sorcs the option for large shields and large offensive resource pool at the same time.

The others (Blazing Shield, Obsidian Shield, Annulment, Healing Ward) scale off health, requiring a specific choice between defense or offense.

Cathexis · May 2016

Joy_Division wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

karakondzula wrote: »

I love that change, finally i can make a viable health build.

@karakondzula point me to a viable PvP health build would you... And sitting in a zerg spamming resto purge proxy does not constitute a viable PvP build. That's just an AP farm build, you can literally put just about any skills on your bar and be viable in a zerg.

Viable build

Cathexis wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Aspi90 wrote: »

They could have just leave one morph with a shield scaling of stam and one scaling of health.

PLEASE JUST DO THIS, SO MUCH LESS DRAMA.

@Wrobel

No, a shield that scales off of stamina is a stupid idea because stamina builds already have enough defense with dodge roll and they can block far longer than magicka builds. Bone shield needs to remain the way it is.

@Firerock2 Dodge roll is not a universal defense. Dodge cannot avoid dots, curses, dets, channeled attacks, siege, just to name a few key things. Dodge also has an exponential cost increase. Blocking longer hardly makes up for that. Shields provide defense for EVERYTHING, can absorb damage indefinitely, can't be crit, and get stronger with offensive stats.

They are in no way even close to equal.

Just because you yell, doesn't make you correct.

Shield provide defense for EVERYTHING, huh? What happens if I have a shield and I get hit by a templar's javelin? I get stunned. What happens if I dodge the javelin? It misses entirely, no stun. Apparently shields don't defend against everything. However, the dodge roll completely negated the Javelin.

Shields still absorb the damage of the javalin, just not the CC effect.

I still get slowed with Dodge roll, but if you use shields while snared you can still indefinitely tank damage. With Dodge roll? You die.

So minimum CC vs stun it's *** for tat, but shields are still better.