Cathexis wrote: »

So I guess stam sorcs will continue to have no way to repell damage from multiple opponents.

I was worried there for a minute, I thought maybe I would actually come back to playing this game but it seems I will be getting my life back again.

#banginhotties

Dodge, dodge, dogedidodge, New Well-Fitted Trait wants to greet you, my honored, chick banging friend.

Insane...

And supposing that is true,that was before or after they did the change? I mean...laughable.

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

It was harsh but necessary. There's no way you should be able to.have that much dodge (up all the time) and a huge damage shield, it will never break.

So the idea of the first change was another nonsense like the 60% drain for example?

Rune_Relic wrote: »

As a primarily stamina NB with the most to lose.....scaling a shield off stamina is just as OP as scaling a shield off magicka.

And yet mag builds have 3 shields and stam builds have 0.

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

As a primarily stamina NB with the most to lose.....scaling a shield off stamina is just as OP as scaling a shield off magicka.

And yet mag builds have 3 shields and stam builds have 0.

And the fix for that is to have them all scale off health like they always should have (and Dodging needs to be nerfed a bit more too probably), if anyone wants to have a good defense you should actually have to spec for it instead of maximizing one resource and gaining both high damage and defense, it boggles the mind that something which makes so very little sense could ever have been allowed to continue for so long.

What??? That's crazy. You should be able to have competitive damage and adequate defense to survive through skill.

Otherwise, why play a tank build? You will never be able to defeat opponents, especially if higher defense is inaquate vs large numbers.

Which brings me to my next point: health scaling shields are useless and synergize poorly with min/max. Why would anyone want them - if you are health spec, then you have a severely limited ability to spam shields, so you get what... One shield cast every like 10 seconds. It's just silly.

No the fix here is easier - make a shield scaled offall resources and let players choose for themselves instead of pigeonholing people based on your own expectations about how to play.

acw37162 wrote: »

I really wish they would chime in on why they reverted this.

I know players have their thoughts but i would like to know what they found was the reason to turn it back to a skill practically no one uses.

I know I won't be using it next patch

If it gives me at least 6k damage absorb based on health I will use it, but with my current health that means it would need to provide 30% of my current health AFTER battlespirit. I don't see it working that way.

A 2k damage shieldis no good if you are getting hit for 10k and 8k is going to go unmitigated. You may as well just absorb the hit for 5k mitigated damage with full armor mitigation and damage reduction.

And on a stam sorc, your damage isnt high enough that you can afford to spec into health and still do damage. You have to go full stam, period. But hey lets assume for a moment then that I could just stack hardened ward to compensate...then I'm draining 2 pools instead of one, having to make 2 casts instead of one, and needing to stack 2 types of regen instead of one.

Thats not even factoring in poisons.

Its completely unreasonable.

dimensional wrote: »

Bone Shield is a damage shield intended for health stacking tanks, which is a much needed buff given how they currently perform. So I'm glad they did this.

@dimensional Yes, however if it scaled off stamina you wouldn't need to health stack because you could just shield spam.

Stupidity!!!

Aspi90 wrote: »

They could have just leave one morph with a shield scaling of stam and one scaling of health.

PLEASE JUST DO THIS, SO MUCH LESS DRAMA.

@Wrobel

Cathexis wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

As a primarily stamina NB with the most to lose.....scaling a shield off stamina is just as OP as scaling a shield off magicka.

And yet mag builds have 3 shields and stam builds have 0.

And the fix for that is to have them all scale off health like they always should have (and Dodging needs to be nerfed a bit more too probably), if anyone wants to have a good defense you should actually have to spec for it instead of maximizing one resource and gaining both high damage and defense, it boggles the mind that something which makes so very little sense could ever have been allowed to continue for so long.

What??? That's crazy. You should be able to have competitive damage and adequate defense to survive through skill.

Otherwise, why play a tank build? You will never be able to defeat opponents, especially if higher defense is inaquate vs large numbers.

Which brings me to my next point: health scaling shields are useless and synergize poorly with min/max. Why would anyone want them - if you are health spec, then you have a severely limited ability to spam shields, so you get what... One shield cast every like 10 seconds. It's just silly.

No the fix here is easier - make a shield scaled offall resources and let players choose for themselves instead of pigeonholing people based on your own expectations about how to play.

You make my own point for me, that's literally the whole point. Shields shouldn't synergize with Min/Max builds, as far as I'm concerned Min/Max builds shouldn't be a viable thing for anyone but the most insanely good players. The fact that Health is something so easily ignored and disregarded as unwanted and not useful is evidence of something being broken with this game, Health should be something that everyone specs into to some varying degree depending on how much survivability they want, with Shields becoming more useful the more Health you have because that's what would be balanced.

Having a strong offense automatically provide a strong defense without any need to spec into survivability whatsoever apart from equipping a Shield or two on your skill bar is an utterly broken mechanic that invalidates the entire idea of someone being a Tank, where the notion is universally that you have to have trade-offs. If you want something you have to give up something for it, and if you want survivability then you have to sacrifice damage to a relatively equal degree.

Except this game doesn't do that, because it's broken and doesn't make any kind of sense in the slightest regarding this particular aspect of the combat design. All that needs to happen is for Health to he restored as an important thing for everyone to have in significant quantities, certainly at the least moreso than it is now. Tanks are the only ones who should spec more into Health than other things, but nobody besides crazy, insanely good players should be running with no Health at all under any circumstances, not if they expect to stay alive, anyway.

Of course the game would need to be rebalanced because what I'm talking about is a full-on paradigm shift to something more like to when there were still softcaps, not that I'm necessarily advocating for softcaps (though I think reintroducing them could potentially be a good idea), but at the very least through a change in how people manage their defenses people could be incentivized to have more balanced builds without softcaps being introduced. If all that happened Hybrid Builds might even become properly viable again, which is entirely a good thing and to a large extent is the point.

I'm certainly not suggesting that something closely resembling most min/max builds shouldn't still be viable, just that you'd need to spec some points into Health, and if the game were rebalanced around this change then it could potentially not even change your time to kill very much, just make it so you have to work a little harder to stay alive while you go about fighting. Hybrids should definitely never be better than min/maxing or more incentivized, but right now all the incentives are in favor of min/maxing and utterly opposed to Hybrids, and all I want is for the scales to be balanced and both be equally viable in their own ways.

Most of the reason Hybrids are largely not viable is that min/maxing gets so much and sacrifices nothing for it, they have no trade-offs. Sure they can and should be hard to play, but just because you're good at the game doesn't mean you should have a free pass to be absurdly powerful with no drawbacks. If you want to be insanely powerful running a pure min/max build then it should be insanely difficult to stay alive, and it isn't nearly hard enough as it stands, practically no one should be able to do it.

The only thing I think that needs to happen is for Shields to no longer scale off of anything besides Health, and also potentially give a slightly increased cost to dodge rolling if necessary to stop Stamina builds from becoming OP in response to Magicka builds taking a hit to their Shields. Everything else should mostly fall into place on it's own when that one fundamentally broken aspect of the combat system is fixed, it's a linchpin that's missing and stopping everything else from working the way they're supposed to. Not that this one change will magically balance the whole game perfectly, far from it, but I believe it would be a giant leap in the right direction.

Tanks and Healers will go back to being appreciated and sought for in groups, and people would actually play Tanks and Healers more if they know and feel that it's okay to be a Hybrid and not just being one thing, because Tanking and Healing can be boring for a lot of people and getting to Heal and Tank at once or Tank and DPS or whathaveyou helps people enjoy the roll and more people will play as them. That's how the game was originally intended to be played in the Developers' own words, but it doesn't happen because people feel like they're forced to min/max just to be competitive, and that desperately needs to change.

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

As a primarily stamina NB with the most to lose.....scaling a shield off stamina is just as OP as scaling a shield off magicka.

And yet mag builds have 3 shields and stam builds have 0.

And the fix for that is to have them all scale off health like they always should have (and Dodging needs to be nerfed a bit more too probably), if anyone wants to have a good defense you should actually have to spec for it instead of maximizing one resource and gaining both high damage and defense, it boggles the mind that something which makes so very little sense could ever have been allowed to continue for so long.

Sir.... have you actually tried your idea out? I have. Boneshield on a 75k health sorc amount to a little over 13k. they last 6 seconds and to get your health that high you give up alot of resources... it's just not feasible to shield this way. if they made all shields this way... no one would use them.


it's just not viable to run like this when people are doing this sort of damage anyway...

Rune_Relic wrote: »

As a primarily stamina NB with the most to lose.....scaling a shield off stamina is just as OP as scaling a shield off magicka.

^ This guy gets it.