Argonian pvp

MancandyMcDong · January 2016

I had a brief discussion with one today. I think they should be allowed to disappear underwater, use weapons and skills while swimming, or have major dodge increase at least. It may result in a massive increase of attacks near water but at least they won't be worthless anymore.

Junkogen · January 2016

What irritates me the most is that ZOS has buffed or changed other racial passives to put them at the top of the list for builds but refuse to do it for Argonians. Look what they did for the Bosmer. Why can't they do something bold like that for Argonians? They also completely changed the Orc passive to swift warrior and added stamina regen to Khajiit. I just don't get the double standard. Why are they clinging to Argonians' gimped passives? It's a mystery.

dodgehopper_ESO · January 2016

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

Argonians should have the same stealth dmg passive as khajiit/bosmer... The whole guerrilla warfare thing is written into their lore.

Also either change the potion passive to the same 12% max health modifier as imperial or split 6/6 health and another resource so maybe the increased healing received matters

And/Or

Give them 20% healing received, so it's like bosmer stam regen, it gives them something niche.

Keep in mind a lot of players don't have the Explorer pack and are limited to the race options for their faction. DC and AD each have the strongest magicka build races (Breton, Altmer) as well as excellent stamina build races (Redguard, Bosmer, Khajiit, Orc).

It may not quite be as lore-friendly, but EP is seriously lacking when it comes to strong magicka build races, and Argonian is the best option at the moment other than Dunmer magicka DK.

Would be nice to see this aspect further buffed somehow, perhaps boost the potion passive even more or add max magicka, spell crit or spell damage (somewhat related to healing).

Given the current design of the game I can see your point. Otherwise EP has two tanking races (Argonian and Nord), and one solid mage race/decent stam race (Dunmer). Dunmer are definitely good as mages with strong magic bonus and fire bonus. It obviously favors playing as a Dragon Knight or Sorcerer, but you can do interesting things with other classes if you wield fire sticks. Admittedly, that is somewhat confining, but I wouldn't say Dunmer are bad. By the same token I definitely think Altmer are better all around, and their damage comes close to dunmer fire damage, and is just plain better on other types. I'm not so sure their 10% boost to regen though is as good as +6% dunmer boost to stamina. It really depends on your build with this assessment.

ThatNeonZebraAgain · January 2016

Junkogen wrote: »

What irritates me the most is that ZOS has buffed or changed other racial passives to put them at the top of the list for builds but refuse to do it for Argonians. Look what they did for the Bosmer. Why can't they do something bold like that for Argonians? They also completely changed the Orc passive to swift warrior and added stamina regen to Khajiit. I just don't get the double standard. Why are they clinging to Argonians' gimped passives? It's a mystery.

QFT and made it my sig!

Takes-No-Prisoner · January 2016

Junkogen wrote: »

added stamina regen to Khajiit.

As the Khajiit being the other type of beast-man race, seeing as they are naively going more towards stamina with their passives. It would be cool if our other beastly race, Argonian got magic passives so if i copy and pasta the Khajiit passives just flip their stamina buff for magic;

1st Passive-Increases Health Recovery by 20% Increases Magic Recovery by 10%

2nd Passive-Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 3m
-Increases damage done while in Stealth by 9%

3rd Passive-Increases Spell Critical by 8%

I could hang with this set up

ThatNeonZebraAgain · January 2016

Takes-No-Prisoner wrote: »

Junkogen wrote: »

added stamina regen to Khajiit.

As the Khajiit being the other type of beast-man race, seeing as they are naively going more towards stamina with their passives. It would be cool if our other beastly race, Argonian got magic passives so if i copy and pasta the Khajiit passives just flip their stamina buff for magic;

1st Passive-Increases Health Recovery by 20% Increases Magic Recovery by 10%

2nd Passive-Reduces your detection radius in Stealth by 3m
-Increases damage done while in Stealth by 9%

3rd Passive-Increases Spell Critical by 8%

I could hang with this set up

You might enjoy this thread, which proposes Argonians as a more magicka-focused race. Some dispute the merits of these suggestions on lore grounds, however.

I'm not sure which is more worthless, healing received or health regen though. I would think healing received is less worthless since, in practice, it is easier to stack higher without sacrificing regen/stats that actually matter.

I've said this elsewhere several times but it bear repeating. Stealth-based passives, while lore-friendly for Argonians, in fact bring a lot less to the table than they appear. Khajit and Bosmer players, before their racial passive buffs, frequently outlined the major problems with stealth-based passives, which still have merit today. First, stealth-based passives have virtually no impact on PvE combat. They can be useful for opening against one mob where you can re-stealth between fights (but how difficult is fighting one mob really?), and offer nothing when fighting multiple mobs (which is more common than fighting single mobs), or during prolonged boss fights (especially endgame). Second, stealth-based passives have only limited usefulness in PvP. Again, they are good for an opener from stealth (ie ganking), but that's it. And again, in larger and longer fights where you cannot re-stealth, this passive provides no benefit. Moreover, the apparently permanently broken "stuck in combat bug" that prevents stealth will many times also prevent this passive from even being used. Strangely, the limited practical/situational usefulness of 'from stealth' racials actually makes potion-based passives a more flexible and useful passive that works across all types of playstyles and encounters. Both stealth and potion passives still pale in comparison to 'always on' passives that buff regen, damage/crit, or stat pools. That said, there are other ways to incorporate stealth-based passives (such as in a defensive way, something like increasing all regen by 15% while stealthed), but they would require more work on ZOS's end than I bet they are willing to spend on racials.

heystreethawk · January 2016

MancandyMcDong wrote: »

I had a brief discussion with one today. I think they should be allowed to disappear underwater

That is called drowning

Takes-No-Prisoner · January 2016

ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

.

I posted on there already and had a general statement of 'any magic related thingy will do nicely'. As for your comments on stealthy passive, while your PvE point is true... I however must point out that Cloak would re-arm that steathly ability. If you go take a peek at Master Assassin and Shadow Barrier these re-activate when I press my Cloak button. Useful for a Argonian NB? Absolutely, useful for my Argonian Templar? Probably not.

The word we're looking for is 'gimmicky' in relation to the passive we're discussing. I shy heavily away from 'gimmicky' types of gear/passives/skills. In PvP one would get torn apart once their Gimmick is exposed. But I digress.

It's a mere off the wire suggestion, I have confidently learned to work with the tools I already have and excel well in PvP. As for the passive, I would honestly take anything better at this point. Not sure buffing what we have already is an answer either.

RAGUNAnoOne · February 2016

Sethro_27 wrote: »

How do argonian players feel about being alienated as a player class in pvp?

Like crap the only thing we can do is heal ourselves...Defile exists to directly counter that and mangle to counter our health bonus Argonians are the ONLY race with hard counters to their racial passives plus they are crap in the meta of one shot or nothing.

threefarms · February 2016

Believe it or not, I have seen some Argonian Former Emperors as a member of the EP.

RAGUNAnoOne · February 2016

threefarms wrote: »

Believe it or not, I have seen some Argonian Former Emperors as a member of the EP.

a former emperor could have gone to one of those old empty non vet campaigns just to farm it with no resistance, unless it was an AS campaign after softcaps were removed that has no bearing on this discussion

Xvorg · February 2016

Sethro_27 wrote: »

How do argonian players feel about being alienated as a player class in pvp?

As if I need to compensate something which is for free for other races, with skill and guile... and ckearly that's not enough...

But hey, ZOs believes that 500 more HPs are enough...

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO · February 2016

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Given the current design of the game I can see your point. Otherwise EP has two tanking races (Argonian and Nord), and one solid mage race/decent stam race (Dunmer). Dunmer are definitely good as mages with strong magic bonus and fire bonus. It obviously favors playing as a Dragon Knight or Sorcerer, but you can do interesting things with other classes if you wield fire sticks. Admittedly, that is somewhat confining, but I wouldn't say Dunmer are bad. By the same token I definitely think Altmer are better all around, and their damage comes close to dunmer fire damage, and is just plain better on other types. I'm not so sure their 10% boost to regen though is as good as +6% dunmer boost to stamina. It really depends on your build with this assessment.

Not to hijack the main topic, but how do you feel that Dunmer function as melee Stamina Nightblades?

I really like my Dunmer, but I'm wondering how much the lack of Stamina regen hurts at end-game. Would the Magicka bonuses help in any noticeable fashion with respect to Dark Cloak or Crippling Grasp?

Thanks in advance, and apologies again for the off-topic question!

Sethro_27 · February 2016

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Given the current design of the game I can see your point. Otherwise EP has two tanking races (Argonian and Nord), and one solid mage race/decent stam race (Dunmer). Dunmer are definitely good as mages with strong magic bonus and fire bonus. It obviously favors playing as a Dragon Knight or Sorcerer, but you can do interesting things with other classes if you wield fire sticks. Admittedly, that is somewhat confining, but I wouldn't say Dunmer are bad. By the same token I definitely think Altmer are better all around, and their damage comes close to dunmer fire damage, and is just plain better on other types. I'm not so sure their 10% boost to regen though is as good as +6% dunmer boost to stamina. It really depends on your build with this assessment.

Not to hijack the main topic, but how do you feel that Dunmer function as melee Stamina Nightblades?

I really like my Dunmer, but I'm wondering how much the lack of Stamina regen hurts at end-game. Would the Magicka bonuses help in any noticeable fashion with respect to Dark Cloak or Crippling Grasp?

Thanks in advance, and apologies again for the off-topic question!

I would stick with your assassination abilities mixed with guild or weapon abilities cause your relying on burst if you stand up n fight your gonna get squished cause your all stamina and magicka. I would make sure that your ranged weapon or gap closer uses stealth to its advantage.

Sethro_27 · February 2016

Xvorg wrote: »

Sethro_27 wrote: »

How do argonian players feel about being alienated as a player class in pvp?

As if I need to compensate something which is for free for other races, with skill and guile... and ckearly that's not enough...

But hey, ZOs believes that 500 more HPs are enough...

I'm fairly witty I rolled at least a 3 in it (snoogins) but I think the increased healing coulda been replaced anyone can heal and keep you alive. That's the point of healing not like it's gonna save ya too much unless it's stacking on abilities and on potions and I'm walking towards phenoix as she's blowing *** up(xmen)