• The Radiant Magelight morph will continue to prevent you from being stunned by stealth attacks, and will reduce damage from stealth attacks while slotted as a morph effect. Activating it also increases the radius of the activated reveal to 12 meters, and reduces the cost.

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

If they leave Empower on Magelight, your going to have a lot more 1 shots...not everyone will run RML, as Inner Light is very attractive and now offers stealth detection and most will take the increased max magic over stealth protection due to PVE

This means Empower will be used from stealth with easy to hammer people.

Im Glad im leveling a DK, gonna need to those Wings for all those Empowered Lethal Arrows that will be blackening out the sky. No one will be safe from the long reach of Lethal Arrow haha

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

If they leave Empower on Magelight, your going to have a lot more 1 shots...not everyone will run RML, as Inner Light is very attractive and now offers stealth detection and most will take the increased max magic over stealth protection due to PVE

This means Empower will be used from stealth with easy to hammer people.

Im Glad im leveling a DK, gonna need to those Wings for all those Empowered Lethal Arrows that will be blackening out the sky. No one will be safe from the long reach of Lethal Arrow haha

Dreyloch wrote: »

Can't believe the NB cry. I don't know how many times I've cast things like caltrops RIGHT in front of me where the NB I'm fighting should be, and yet he's not detected because he cast a spammable ability to get away from just about anything.

I'm sorry, that's OP, needed a nerf badly, and boo hoo, now you have to fight people straight up ROFL. I'm happy for this change. Less ganking, more toe to toe. IMO that requires more skill anyway.

Mages OP now? No, they are still wearing cloth, new CP's will allow more damage to their OP shields to take them out faster. The meta for PvP is changing folks. Have to adapt and adjust.

frozywozy wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

For all the nightblades who claim that cloak is their only defensive move, here is a lil parenthesis for you. Do you know why 2-handed DKs and Templars spam Wrecking blow and rarely other skills in openworld 1vX / Small Scale PvP? Because they are kids with no brain and no skills? No. The answer to that question is the fact that without cloak, you need so many skills to survive that it makes it very hard to slot more than one or two damaging skills.

For example, on my stamDK, I run Rally, Vigor, Shuffle, Hardened Armor, Dragon Fire Scales, Fossilize and Corrosive Armor only to be able to survive. I also got most of my red CPs in magical damage mitigation and resistant (60). I run 7 pieces impen. Now, what do you run on your nightblade? How much magic damage mitigation and impen do you stack? Do you even shadow image bruh? Probably not. Barely no one use that in Cyrodiil even though it's the longest teleport of all 4 classes.

If you think that cloak is your only way to survive, you have alot to learn about mitigation options. Try to play a 2-handed stam DK or Templar and you will see how that works out for you.

your argument is flawed in that a magika nb has none of those skills the only true defensive skill we had was cloak teleport doesnt work as an escape as well as you might think as its nothing to a sorc to keep hitting you at range itsnot repeatable like streak which btw still needs nerfing

If you think the only defensive skill a magicka nightblade has to survive is Cloak, you have alot to learn about the class. Shadow Image is great anytime you are close to the followings :

- Inside a keep (Use the walls and the tower to jump down and to pop back up once the enemy followed you)
- Near rocks that you can climb on to fake to jump down and pop back up
- Any LoS where you can turn around a corner and pop back behind out of LoS

This is only what Shadow Image can do for you (again, the longest teleport in the game). I can reffer you some great magicka nightblades who use this skill alot and are very successful with it, just send me a PM.

Then there is Healing Ward, Absorb Magic and Double Take to boost your speed after teleporting back to your Mirror Image and helping you to cloak away. Efficient Purge to remove all debuffs from yourself and assure you to perma cloak away. Fear! Do I really need to talk about that? The combo of Fear + Shadow Image + Efficient Purge + Double Take + Cloak spam on a magicka nightblade will let you escape in almost every scenario if you use your environnement properly.

I could keep going but I'll stop because I think I gave you enough tips. The purpose of the buff to Radiant Mage Light and Revealing Flare is not to break a class and a "play style" as alot of nightblades in this thread think. The role was to give us a way to deal with nightblades who abuse the followings :

- Speccing full glass cannon
- Keep resetting the fight everytime the enemy is on CC Immunity
- Escape easily with barely no counters (don't give me that crap about caltrops, aoes, etc - I've fought some nightblades spamming caltrops on them running all across Cyrodiil and it doesn't work against good players).[/quote]



You did this to me 2 nights ago at BRK. And let me tell you it was NOT easy to get away from you all chasing me lol. But I will tell you what, it was amazingly fun trying. This is what I really enjoy about stealth.

frozywozy wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

For all the nightblades who claim that cloak is their only defensive move, here is a lil parenthesis for you. Do you know why 2-handed DKs and Templars spam Wrecking blow and rarely other skills in openworld 1vX / Small Scale PvP? Because they are kids with no brain and no skills? No. The answer to that question is the fact that without cloak, you need so many skills to survive that it makes it very hard to slot more than one or two damaging skills.

For example, on my stamDK, I run Rally, Vigor, Shuffle, Hardened Armor, Dragon Fire Scales, Fossilize and Corrosive Armor only to be able to survive. I also got most of my red CPs in magical damage mitigation and resistant (60). I run 7 pieces impen. Now, what do you run on your nightblade? How much magic damage mitigation and impen do you stack? Do you even shadow image bruh? Probably not. Barely no one use that in Cyrodiil even though it's the longest teleport of all 4 classes.

If you think that cloak is your only way to survive, you have alot to learn about mitigation options. Try to play a 2-handed stam DK or Templar and you will see how that works out for you.

your argument is flawed in that a magika nb has none of those skills the only true defensive skill we had was cloak teleport doesnt work as an escape as well as you might think as its nothing to a sorc to keep hitting you at range itsnot repeatable like streak which btw still needs nerfing

If you think the only defensive skill a magicka nightblade has to survive is Cloak, you have alot to learn about the class. Shadow Image is great anytime you are close to the followings :

- Inside a keep (Use the walls and the tower to jump down and to pop back up once the enemy followed you)
- Near rocks that you can climb on to fake to jump down and pop back up
- Any LoS where you can turn around a corner and pop back behind out of LoS

This is only what Shadow Image can do for you (again, the longest teleport in the game). I can reffer you some great magicka nightblades who use this skill alot and are very successful with it, just send me a PM.

Then there is Healing Ward, Absorb Magic and Double Take to boost your speed after teleporting back to your Mirror Image and helping you to cloak away. Efficient Purge to remove all debuffs from yourself and assure you to perma cloak away. Fear! Do I really need to talk about that? The combo of Fear + Shadow Image + Efficient Purge + Double Take + Cloak spam on a magicka nightblade will let you escape in almost every scenario if you use your environnement properly.

I could keep going but I'll stop because I think I gave you enough tips. The purpose of the buff to Radiant Mage Light and Revealing Flare is not to break a class and a "play style" as alot of nightblades in this thread think. The role was to give us a way to deal with nightblades who abuse the followings :

- Speccing full glass cannon
- Keep resetting the fight everytime the enemy is on CC Immunity
- Escape easily with barely no counters (don't give me that crap about caltrops, aoes, etc - I've fought some nightblades spamming caltrops on them running all across Cyrodiil and it doesn't work against good players).

You did this to me 2 nights ago at BRK. And let me tell you it was NOT easy to get away from you all chasing me lol. But I will tell you what, it was amazingly fun trying. This is what I really enjoy about stealth.

1- Shuffle
2- Dodge roll with bow (gaining major expedition)
3- Shadow Cloak

You reappear 25 to 30 yards away when Cloak fades off (out of range of any gap closer).
Not easy you were saying?

Autolycus wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

I don't think you are the enemy. Players need to acknowledge that success is greatly dependent on the tools provided. If you don't believe me then let's have the devs revert all buffs to NB since launch. That way when we get complaints from NB can refer to L2P and it is your fault.

The fact is NB is extremely easy to play. It is grossly overpowered. I believe a lot of the pts changes have been designed to curtail some of this OP but not near enough. Not even close.

Stop with all the detailed analysis. Just tell the devs to fix it. Lol. And it is boring to be this OP. How in world can hiding in stealth and spamming a few abilities to kill a player before they react challenging. That is your class dude. Come on.

Stop with the detailed analysis? The only reliable means we have of determining what is balanced is through analysis, through statistics. For example, your claim that being a NB is extremely easy to play is unsupported. What makes it easy to play? How does it compare to the difficulty of playing other classes? Most importantly, you're only considering for one specific playstyle for the class, and only in a single form of content, being PvP. "That is your class dude, come on." - What do you know of the class and how it's played, outside of the cliche? Have you ever tried it?? Don't pretend like you know everything about NBs when it's clear you don't know anything but the cloak-and-dagger build.

I am just saying look at the big picture.

Of all the people who comment on these forums, I am within the minority percentage that actually does look at the big picture. That was the point of my whole statement above, which you quoted. So many people cry out relentlessly for nerfs to a class which they don't understand, and draw conclusions based on causal relationships which frequently are pulled from context and spun to suit a particular argument. These people don't think about the impact of those changes on the class on the whole, or how that class will stand against the other three when all is said and done.

This change to magelight is a perfect example of just that. It is the response of ZOS to a plethora of threads whose sole purpose is to focus narrowly on a single aspect of a build in a single form of content and tear it down. A normal call for rebalance would result in minor adjustments to skills that make things either more fair, or more challenging for the class in question (in this case NBs). Instead, the proposed changes gives every character in the game a unique counter that forcefully breaks a skill unique to a class. It's not the same as something like Shieldbreaker, which is limited to a particular build and doesn't prevent every sorc in the game from using their skills, just makes them less effective against those particular individuals. The change to magelight prevents casting a skill that provides access to NB passives.

People thought that Surprise Attack was OP prior to this change, but does anyone believe that Surprise Attack is going to be spammed less, now that it's the only useful skill (aside from shades) that allows access to passives?

Autolycus wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

For all the nightblades who claim that cloak is their only defensive move, here is a lil parenthesis for you. Do you know why 2-handed DKs and Templars spam Wrecking blow and rarely other skills in openworld 1vX / Small Scale PvP? Because they are kids with no brain and no skills? No. The answer to that question is the fact that without cloak, you need so many skills to survive that it makes it very hard to slot more than one or two damaging skills.

For example, on my stamDK, I run Rally, Vigor, Shuffle, Hardened Armor, Dragon Fire Scales, Fossilize and Corrosive Armor only to be able to survive. I also got most of my red CPs in magical damage mitigation and resistant (60). I run 7 pieces impen. Now, what do you run on your nightblade? How much magic damage mitigation and impen do you stack? Do you even shadow image bruh? Probably not. Barely no one use that in Cyrodiil even though it's the longest teleport of all 4 classes.

If you think that cloak is your only way to survive, you have alot to learn about mitigation options. Try to play a 2-handed stam DK or Templar and you will see how that works out for you.

your argument is flawed in that a magika nb has none of those skills the only true defensive skill we had was cloak teleport doesnt work as an escape as well as you might think as its nothing to a sorc to keep hitting you at range itsnot repeatable like streak which btw still needs nerfing

If you think the only defensive skill a magicka nightblade has to survive is Cloak, you have alot to learn about the class. Shadow Image is great anytime you are close to the followings :

- Inside a keep (Use the walls and the tower to jump down and to pop back up once the enemy followed you)
- Near rocks that you can climb on to fake to jump down and pop back up
- Any LoS where you can turn around a corner and pop back behind out of LoS

This is only what Shadow Image can do for you (again, the longest teleport in the game). I can reffer you some great magicka nightblades who use this skill alot and are very successful with it, just send me a PM.

Then there is Healing Ward, Absorb Magic and Double Take to boost your speed after teleporting back to your Mirror Image and helping you to cloak away. Efficient Purge to remove all debuffs from yourself and assure you to perma cloak away. Fear! Do I really need to talk about that? The combo of Fear + Shadow Image + Efficient Purge + Double Take + Cloak spam on a magicka nightblade will let you escape in almost every scenario if you use your environnement properly.

I could keep going but I'll stop because I think I gave you enough tips. The purpose of the buff to Radiant Mage Light and Revealing Flare is not to break a class and a "play style" as alot of nightblades in this thread think. The role was to give us a way to deal with nightblades who abuse the followings :

- Speccing full glass cannon
- Keep resetting the fight everytime the enemy is on CC Immunity
- Escape easily with barely no counters (don't give me that crap about caltrops, aoes, etc - I've fought some nightblades spamming caltrops on them running all across Cyrodiil and it doesn't work against good players).

You did this to me 2 nights ago at BRK. And let me tell you it was NOT easy to get away from you all chasing me lol. But I will tell you what, it was amazingly fun trying. This is what I really enjoy about stealth.

1- Shuffle
2- Dodge roll with bow (gaining major expedition)
3- Shadow Cloak

You reappear 25 to 30 yards away when Cloak fades off (out of range of any gap closer).
Not easy you were saying?

I don't use a bow "Yuk"

However I do use Rapid Manouvers. And yes it wasn't easy. I worked my arse off getting away. As you and 2 others were chasing me, while anticipating my path with caltrops and gap closing. No idea if you had a detect pot up, though.

As I said, I am not complaining, I had a blast doing everything I could to get away. Which I finally did. I was just stating that it can be effective and is not as useless as you make it seem

Edit* Which reminds me, @ZOS_GinaBruno Fix gap closers interaction with Cloak. They still break it.

There are people who play ESO who prefer the cloak&dagger builds, and people who like this playstyle exist in every MMO. People have a right to their preferred playstyle, regardless of whether or not other people like said playstyle.

This is a perfect example of balance vs. preferred playstyle. The changes to cloak in the TG update are fine, because it is a rebalancing of the skill, allowing for it to still be used, but slightly less effective to ensure that NBs do not have an inherent advantage over every other class. The change to magelight, however, skill-locks any NB in range, which prohibits said NB from having access to shadow passives.

In order to have access to those passives without cloak, another shadow skill must be used, and the only two which are viable are shades and surprise attack. Shades can be very effective when used properly, but not in terms of accessing passive abilities, and everyone already hates Surprise Attack. Additionally, SA is an offensive skill, and when a sneaky NB is exposed and forced to go on the defensive or fails to successfully gank, SA is not an effective defensive ability. If magelight did not prevent casting cloak, but rather made it so that the cloaked player could still be seen and targeted, it would be a different case.

frozywozy wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

For all the nightblades who claim that cloak is their only defensive move, here is a lil parenthesis for you. Do you know why 2-handed DKs and Templars spam Wrecking blow and rarely other skills in openworld 1vX / Small Scale PvP? Because they are kids with no brain and no skills? No. The answer to that question is the fact that without cloak, you need so many skills to survive that it makes it very hard to slot more than one or two damaging skills.

For example, on my stamDK, I run Rally, Vigor, Shuffle, Hardened Armor, Dragon Fire Scales, Fossilize and Corrosive Armor only to be able to survive. I also got most of my red CPs in magical damage mitigation and resistant (60). I run 7 pieces impen. Now, what do you run on your nightblade? How much magic damage mitigation and impen do you stack? Do you even shadow image bruh? Probably not. Barely no one use that in Cyrodiil even though it's the longest teleport of all 4 classes.

If you think that cloak is your only way to survive, you have alot to learn about mitigation options. Try to play a 2-handed stam DK or Templar and you will see how that works out for you.

your argument is flawed in that a magika nb has none of those skills the only true defensive skill we had was cloak teleport doesnt work as an escape as well as you might think as its nothing to a sorc to keep hitting you at range itsnot repeatable like streak which btw still needs nerfing

If you think the only defensive skill a magicka nightblade has to survive is Cloak, you have alot to learn about the class. Shadow Image is great anytime you are close to the followings :

- Inside a keep (Use the walls and the tower to jump down and to pop back up once the enemy followed you)
- Near rocks that you can climb on to fake to jump down and pop back up
- Any LoS where you can turn around a corner and pop back behind out of LoS

This is only what Shadow Image can do for you (again, the longest teleport in the game). I can reffer you some great magicka nightblades who use this skill alot and are very successful with it, just send me a PM.

Then there is Healing Ward, Absorb Magic and Double Take to boost your speed after teleporting back to your Mirror Image and helping you to cloak away. Efficient Purge to remove all debuffs from yourself and assure you to perma cloak away. Fear! Do I really need to talk about that? The combo of Fear + Shadow Image + Efficient Purge + Double Take + Cloak spam on a magicka nightblade will let you escape in almost every scenario if you use your environnement properly.

I could keep going but I'll stop because I think I gave you enough tips. The purpose of the buff to Radiant Mage Light and Revealing Flare is not to break a class and a "play style" as alot of nightblades in this thread think. The role was to give us a way to deal with nightblades who abuse the followings :

- Speccing full glass cannon
- Keep resetting the fight everytime the enemy is on CC Immunity
- Escape easily with barely no counters (don't give me that crap about caltrops, aoes, etc - I've fought some nightblades spamming caltrops on them running all across Cyrodiil and it doesn't work against good players).

You did this to me 2 nights ago at BRK. And let me tell you it was NOT easy to get away from you all chasing me lol. But I will tell you what, it was amazingly fun trying. This is what I really enjoy about stealth.

1- Shuffle
2- Dodge roll with bow (gaining major expedition)
3- Shadow Cloak

You reappear 25 to 30 yards away when Cloak fades off (out of range of any gap closer).
Not easy you were saying?

I don't use a bow "Yuk"

However I do use Rapid Manouvers. And yes it wasn't easy. I worked my arse off getting away. As you and 2 others were chasing me, while anticipating my path with caltrops and gap closing. No idea if you had a detect pot up, though.

As I said, I am not complaining, I had a blast doing everything I could to get away. Which I finally did. I was just stating that it can be effective and is not as useless as you make it seem

Edit* Which reminds me, @ZOS_GinaBruno Fix gap closers interaction with Cloak. They still break it.

There are people who play ESO who prefer the cloak&dagger builds, and people who like this playstyle exist in every MMO. People have a right to their preferred playstyle, regardless of whether or not other people like said playstyle.

This is a perfect example of balance vs. preferred playstyle. The changes to cloak in the TG update are fine, because it is a rebalancing of the skill, allowing for it to still be used, but slightly less effective to ensure that NBs do not have an inherent advantage over every other class. The change to magelight, however, skill-locks any NB in range, which prohibits said NB from having access to shadow passives.

In order to have access to those passives without cloak, another shadow skill must be used, and the only two which are viable are shades and surprise attack. Shades can be very effective when used properly, but not in terms of accessing passive abilities, and everyone already hates Surprise Attack. Additionally, SA is an offensive skill, and when a sneaky NB is exposed and forced to go on the defensive or fails to successfully gank, SA is not an effective defensive ability. If magelight did not prevent casting cloak, but rather made it so that the cloaked player could still be seen and targeted, it would be a different case.

The part in bold explains the typical mentality of most nightblades that needs to change and which is being delt with with the current changes to Mage Light. A nightblade doesn't need to switch to defensive mode simply because he is exposed. If he keeps his buffs up and uses other tools in his arsenal, he can still be offensive. A nightblade doesn't have to attack only when his opponent is cced and cloak to reset the fight waiting for cc immunity to run out. It's not how it works and not how it's supposed to work. There is a limit between cheesy gameplay and having the control of 100% of the fight.

frozywozy wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

For all the nightblades who claim that cloak is their only defensive move, here is a lil parenthesis for you. Do you know why 2-handed DKs and Templars spam Wrecking blow and rarely other skills in openworld 1vX / Small Scale PvP? Because they are kids with no brain and no skills? No. The answer to that question is the fact that without cloak, you need so many skills to survive that it makes it very hard to slot more than one or two damaging skills.

For example, on my stamDK, I run Rally, Vigor, Shuffle, Hardened Armor, Dragon Fire Scales, Fossilize and Corrosive Armor only to be able to survive. I also got most of my red CPs in magical damage mitigation and resistant (60). I run 7 pieces impen. Now, what do you run on your nightblade? How much magic damage mitigation and impen do you stack? Do you even shadow image bruh? Probably not. Barely no one use that in Cyrodiil even though it's the longest teleport of all 4 classes.

If you think that cloak is your only way to survive, you have alot to learn about mitigation options. Try to play a 2-handed stam DK or Templar and you will see how that works out for you.

your argument is flawed in that a magika nb has none of those skills the only true defensive skill we had was cloak teleport doesnt work as an escape as well as you might think as its nothing to a sorc to keep hitting you at range itsnot repeatable like streak which btw still needs nerfing

If you think the only defensive skill a magicka nightblade has to survive is Cloak, you have alot to learn about the class. Shadow Image is great anytime you are close to the followings :

- Inside a keep (Use the walls and the tower to jump down and to pop back up once the enemy followed you)
- Near rocks that you can climb on to fake to jump down and pop back up
- Any LoS where you can turn around a corner and pop back behind out of LoS

This is only what Shadow Image can do for you (again, the longest teleport in the game). I can reffer you some great magicka nightblades who use this skill alot and are very successful with it, just send me a PM.

Then there is Healing Ward, Absorb Magic and Double Take to boost your speed after teleporting back to your Mirror Image and helping you to cloak away. Efficient Purge to remove all debuffs from yourself and assure you to perma cloak away. Fear! Do I really need to talk about that? The combo of Fear + Shadow Image + Efficient Purge + Double Take + Cloak spam on a magicka nightblade will let you escape in almost every scenario if you use your environnement properly.

I could keep going but I'll stop because I think I gave you enough tips. The purpose of the buff to Radiant Mage Light and Revealing Flare is not to break a class and a "play style" as alot of nightblades in this thread think. The role was to give us a way to deal with nightblades who abuse the followings :

- Speccing full glass cannon
- Keep resetting the fight everytime the enemy is on CC Immunity
- Escape easily with barely no counters (don't give me that crap about caltrops, aoes, etc - I've fought some nightblades spamming caltrops on them running all across Cyrodiil and it doesn't work against good players).

You did this to me 2 nights ago at BRK. And let me tell you it was NOT easy to get away from you all chasing me lol. But I will tell you what, it was amazingly fun trying. This is what I really enjoy about stealth.

1- Shuffle
2- Dodge roll with bow (gaining major expedition)
3- Shadow Cloak

You reappear 25 to 30 yards away when Cloak fades off (out of range of any gap closer).
Not easy you were saying?

I don't use a bow "Yuk"

However I do use Rapid Manouvers. And yes it wasn't easy. I worked my arse off getting away. As you and 2 others were chasing me, while anticipating my path with caltrops and gap closing. No idea if you had a detect pot up, though.

As I said, I am not complaining, I had a blast doing everything I could to get away. Which I finally did. I was just stating that it can be effective and is not as useless as you make it seem

Edit* Which reminds me, @ZOS_GinaBruno Fix gap closers interaction with Cloak. They still break it.

There are people who play ESO who prefer the cloak&dagger builds, and people who like this playstyle exist in every MMO. People have a right to their preferred playstyle, regardless of whether or not other people like said playstyle.

This is a perfect example of balance vs. preferred playstyle. The changes to cloak in the TG update are fine, because it is a rebalancing of the skill, allowing for it to still be used, but slightly less effective to ensure that NBs do not have an inherent advantage over every other class. The change to magelight, however, skill-locks any NB in range, which prohibits said NB from having access to shadow passives.

In order to have access to those passives without cloak, another shadow skill must be used, and the only two which are viable are shades and surprise attack. Shades can be very effective when used properly, but not in terms of accessing passive abilities, and everyone already hates Surprise Attack. Additionally, SA is an offensive skill, and when a sneaky NB is exposed and forced to go on the defensive or fails to successfully gank, SA is not an effective defensive ability. If magelight did not prevent casting cloak, but rather made it so that the cloaked player could still be seen and targeted, it would be a different case.

The part in bold explains the typical mentality of most nightblades that needs to change and which is being delt with the current changes to Mage Light. A nightblade doesn't need to switch to defensive mode simply because he is exposed. If he keeps his buffs up and uses other tools in his arsenal, he can still be offensive. A nightblade doesn't have to attack only when his opponent is cced and cloak to reset the fight waiting for cc immunity to run out. It's not how it works and not how it's supposed to work. There is a limit between cheesy gameplay and having the control of 100% of the fight.

frozywozy wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

For all the nightblades who claim that cloak is their only defensive move, here is a lil parenthesis for you. Do you know why 2-handed DKs and Templars spam Wrecking blow and rarely other skills in openworld 1vX / Small Scale PvP? Because they are kids with no brain and no skills? No. The answer to that question is the fact that without cloak, you need so many skills to survive that it makes it very hard to slot more than one or two damaging skills.

For example, on my stamDK, I run Rally, Vigor, Shuffle, Hardened Armor, Dragon Fire Scales, Fossilize and Corrosive Armor only to be able to survive. I also got most of my red CPs in magical damage mitigation and resistant (60). I run 7 pieces impen. Now, what do you run on your nightblade? How much magic damage mitigation and impen do you stack? Do you even shadow image bruh? Probably not. Barely no one use that in Cyrodiil even though it's the longest teleport of all 4 classes.

If you think that cloak is your only way to survive, you have alot to learn about mitigation options. Try to play a 2-handed stam DK or Templar and you will see how that works out for you.

your argument is flawed in that a magika nb has none of those skills the only true defensive skill we had was cloak teleport doesnt work as an escape as well as you might think as its nothing to a sorc to keep hitting you at range itsnot repeatable like streak which btw still needs nerfing

If you think the only defensive skill a magicka nightblade has to survive is Cloak, you have alot to learn about the class. Shadow Image is great anytime you are close to the followings :

- Inside a keep (Use the walls and the tower to jump down and to pop back up once the enemy followed you)
- Near rocks that you can climb on to fake to jump down and pop back up
- Any LoS where you can turn around a corner and pop back behind out of LoS

This is only what Shadow Image can do for you (again, the longest teleport in the game). I can reffer you some great magicka nightblades who use this skill alot and are very successful with it, just send me a PM.

Then there is Healing Ward, Absorb Magic and Double Take to boost your speed after teleporting back to your Mirror Image and helping you to cloak away. Efficient Purge to remove all debuffs from yourself and assure you to perma cloak away. Fear! Do I really need to talk about that? The combo of Fear + Shadow Image + Efficient Purge + Double Take + Cloak spam on a magicka nightblade will let you escape in almost every scenario if you use your environnement properly.

I could keep going but I'll stop because I think I gave you enough tips. The purpose of the buff to Radiant Mage Light and Revealing Flare is not to break a class and a "play style" as alot of nightblades in this thread think. The role was to give us a way to deal with nightblades who abuse the followings :

- Speccing full glass cannon
- Keep resetting the fight everytime the enemy is on CC Immunity
- Escape easily with barely no counters (don't give me that crap about caltrops, aoes, etc - I've fought some nightblades spamming caltrops on them running all across Cyrodiil and it doesn't work against good players).

You did this to me 2 nights ago at BRK. And let me tell you it was NOT easy to get away from you all chasing me lol. But I will tell you what, it was amazingly fun trying. This is what I really enjoy about stealth.

1- Shuffle
2- Dodge roll with bow (gaining major expedition)
3- Shadow Cloak

You reappear 25 to 30 yards away when Cloak fades off (out of range of any gap closer).
Not easy you were saying?

I don't use a bow "Yuk"

However I do use Rapid Manouvers. And yes it wasn't easy. I worked my arse off getting away. As you and 2 others were chasing me, while anticipating my path with caltrops and gap closing. No idea if you had a detect pot up, though.

As I said, I am not complaining, I had a blast doing everything I could to get away. Which I finally did. I was just stating that it can be effective and is not as useless as you make it seem

Edit* Which reminds me, @ZOS_GinaBruno Fix gap closers interaction with Cloak. They still break it.

There are people who play ESO who prefer the cloak&dagger builds, and people who like this playstyle exist in every MMO. People have a right to their preferred playstyle, regardless of whether or not other people like said playstyle.

This is a perfect example of balance vs. preferred playstyle. The changes to cloak in the TG update are fine, because it is a rebalancing of the skill, allowing for it to still be used, but slightly less effective to ensure that NBs do not have an inherent advantage over every other class. The change to magelight, however, skill-locks any NB in range, which prohibits said NB from having access to shadow passives.

In order to have access to those passives without cloak, another shadow skill must be used, and the only two which are viable are shades and surprise attack. Shades can be very effective when used properly, but not in terms of accessing passive abilities, and everyone already hates Surprise Attack. Additionally, SA is an offensive skill, and when a sneaky NB is exposed and forced to go on the defensive or fails to successfully gank, SA is not an effective defensive ability. If magelight did not prevent casting cloak, but rather made it so that the cloaked player could still be seen and targeted, it would be a different case.

The part in bold explains the typical mentality of most nightblades that needs to change and which is being delt with the current changes to Mage Light. A nightblade doesn't need to switch to defensive mode simply because he is exposed. If he keeps his buffs up and uses other tools in his arsenal, he can still be offensive. A nightblade doesn't have to attack only when his opponent is cced and cloak to reset the fight waiting for cc immunity to run out. It's not how it works and not how it's supposed to work. There is a limit between cheesy gameplay and having the control of 100% of the fight.

You say it "needs to change." But this is a playstyle preference. You can't change how people like to play, and it was put in the game to accommodate that playstyle. You and I both have different playstyles for our NBs, but neither of us has the right to demand that playstyle be removed entirely from the game. What matters here is that the classes are balanced, and that one class does not have an inherent advantage over another.

Magelight should be an effective counter to cloak. But the current intended changes to magelight have one key flaw, and I've stated this many times already: magelight should not prevent the casting of a class ability. It's comparable to adding a mechanic to Silver Bolts that, when a target is hit with it, they are unable to cast any damage shields, or are unable to initiate healing.

Does that make sense? My point isn't that cloak didn't need to be rebalanced, my point is that skill-locking an entire class with an ability that is available to everyone is unfair. Take shieldbreaker, for example. This set makes the person wearing it better against sorcs - it's much easier for them to take down the shield. How many people would be in a complete and utter rage if taking damage from someone wearing shieldbreaker skill-locked them as a sorc, and prevented them from even casting ward? What if Lethal Arrow, which currently reduces healing effectiveness, also prevented the casting of BoL for 5 seconds? Would that be fair?

If they wanted to implement a fair change, they could have just stopped at "reveals stealthed and invisible targets within 8m." Instead of skill-locking any NB who is near, they could have easily just made it so that the affected target can still be seen, like with detect potions. Preventing someone from even casting a skill is not balance. I'd sooner see them remove the invis mechanic altogether, have cloak be a self-buff that gives Major Ward and Resolve like every other class has, and change the passive to something more useful, like increased damage from sneak or crit damage.

I want my DK to give me wings and fly from one keep to another in magma armor.
Please respect my playstyle.

frozywozy wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

For all the nightblades who claim that cloak is their only defensive move, here is a lil parenthesis for you. Do you know why 2-handed DKs and Templars spam Wrecking blow and rarely other skills in openworld 1vX / Small Scale PvP? Because they are kids with no brain and no skills? No. The answer to that question is the fact that without cloak, you need so many skills to survive that it makes it very hard to slot more than one or two damaging skills.

For example, on my stamDK, I run Rally, Vigor, Shuffle, Hardened Armor, Dragon Fire Scales, Fossilize and Corrosive Armor only to be able to survive. I also got most of my red CPs in magical damage mitigation and resistant (60). I run 7 pieces impen. Now, what do you run on your nightblade? How much magic damage mitigation and impen do you stack? Do you even shadow image bruh? Probably not. Barely no one use that in Cyrodiil even though it's the longest teleport of all 4 classes.

If you think that cloak is your only way to survive, you have alot to learn about mitigation options. Try to play a 2-handed stam DK or Templar and you will see how that works out for you.

your argument is flawed in that a magika nb has none of those skills the only true defensive skill we had was cloak teleport doesnt work as an escape as well as you might think as its nothing to a sorc to keep hitting you at range itsnot repeatable like streak which btw still needs nerfing

If you think the only defensive skill a magicka nightblade has to survive is Cloak, you have alot to learn about the class. Shadow Image is great anytime you are close to the followings :

- Inside a keep (Use the walls and the tower to jump down and to pop back up once the enemy followed you)
- Near rocks that you can climb on to fake to jump down and pop back up
- Any LoS where you can turn around a corner and pop back behind out of LoS

This is only what Shadow Image can do for you (again, the longest teleport in the game). I can reffer you some great magicka nightblades who use this skill alot and are very successful with it, just send me a PM.

Then there is Healing Ward, Absorb Magic and Double Take to boost your speed after teleporting back to your Mirror Image and helping you to cloak away. Efficient Purge to remove all debuffs from yourself and assure you to perma cloak away. Fear! Do I really need to talk about that? The combo of Fear + Shadow Image + Efficient Purge + Double Take + Cloak spam on a magicka nightblade will let you escape in almost every scenario if you use your environnement properly.

I could keep going but I'll stop because I think I gave you enough tips. The purpose of the buff to Radiant Mage Light and Revealing Flare is not to break a class and a "play style" as alot of nightblades in this thread think. The role was to give us a way to deal with nightblades who abuse the followings :

- Speccing full glass cannon
- Keep resetting the fight everytime the enemy is on CC Immunity
- Escape easily with barely no counters (don't give me that crap about caltrops, aoes, etc - I've fought some nightblades spamming caltrops on them running all across Cyrodiil and it doesn't work against good players).

You did this to me 2 nights ago at BRK. And let me tell you it was NOT easy to get away from you all chasing me lol. But I will tell you what, it was amazingly fun trying. This is what I really enjoy about stealth.

1- Shuffle
2- Dodge roll with bow (gaining major expedition)
3- Shadow Cloak

You reappear 25 to 30 yards away when Cloak fades off (out of range of any gap closer).
Not easy you were saying?

I don't use a bow "Yuk"

However I do use Rapid Manouvers. And yes it wasn't easy. I worked my arse off getting away. As you and 2 others were chasing me, while anticipating my path with caltrops and gap closing. No idea if you had a detect pot up, though.

As I said, I am not complaining, I had a blast doing everything I could to get away. Which I finally did. I was just stating that it can be effective and is not as useless as you make it seem

Edit* Which reminds me, @ZOS_GinaBruno Fix gap closers interaction with Cloak. They still break it.

There are people who play ESO who prefer the cloak&dagger builds, and people who like this playstyle exist in every MMO. People have a right to their preferred playstyle, regardless of whether or not other people like said playstyle.

This is a perfect example of balance vs. preferred playstyle. The changes to cloak in the TG update are fine, because it is a rebalancing of the skill, allowing for it to still be used, but slightly less effective to ensure that NBs do not have an inherent advantage over every other class. The change to magelight, however, skill-locks any NB in range, which prohibits said NB from having access to shadow passives.

In order to have access to those passives without cloak, another shadow skill must be used, and the only two which are viable are shades and surprise attack. Shades can be very effective when used properly, but not in terms of accessing passive abilities, and everyone already hates Surprise Attack. Additionally, SA is an offensive skill, and when a sneaky NB is exposed and forced to go on the defensive or fails to successfully gank, SA is not an effective defensive ability. If magelight did not prevent casting cloak, but rather made it so that the cloaked player could still be seen and targeted, it would be a different case.

The part in bold explains the typical mentality of most nightblades that needs to change and which is being delt with the current changes to Mage Light. A nightblade doesn't need to switch to defensive mode simply because he is exposed. If he keeps his buffs up and uses other tools in his arsenal, he can still be offensive. A nightblade doesn't have to attack only when his opponent is cced and cloak to reset the fight waiting for cc immunity to run out. It's not how it works and not how it's supposed to work. There is a limit between cheesy gameplay and having the control of 100% of the fight.

You say it "needs to change." But this is a playstyle preference. You can't change how people like to play, and it was put in the game to accommodate that playstyle. You and I both have different playstyles for our NBs, but neither of us has the right to demand that playstyle be removed entirely from the game. What matters here is that the classes are balanced, and that one class does not have an inherent advantage over another.

Magelight should be an effective counter to cloak. But the current intended changes to magelight have one key flaw, and I've stated this many times already: magelight should not prevent the casting of a class ability. It's comparable to adding a mechanic to Silver Bolts that, when a target is hit with it, they are unable to cast any damage shields, or are unable to initiate healing.

Does that make sense? My point isn't that cloak didn't need to be rebalanced, my point is that skill-locking an entire class with an ability that is available to everyone is unfair. Take shieldbreaker, for example. This set makes the person wearing it better against sorcs - it's much easier for them to take down the shield. How many people would be in a complete and utter rage if taking damage from someone wearing shieldbreaker skill-locked them as a sorc, and prevented them from even casting ward? What if Lethal Arrow, which currently reduces healing effectiveness, also prevented the casting of BoL for 5 seconds? Would that be fair?

If they wanted to implement a fair change, they could have just stopped at "reveals stealthed and invisible targets within 8m." Instead of skill-locking any NB who is near, they could have easily just made it so that the affected target can still be seen, like with detect potions. Preventing someone from even casting a skill is not balance. I'd sooner see them remove the invis mechanic altogether, have cloak be a self-buff that gives Major Ward and Resolve like every other class has, and change the passive to something more useful, like increased damage from sneak or crit damage.

I want my DK to give me wings and fly from one keep to another in magma armor.
Please respect my playstyle.

There is little point in being facetious. If there was a skill that prevented you from casting your flappy wings, you'd have ground to stand on too. But if you prefer to be disrespectful and childish, so be it.

There is nothing disrespectful and childish in what I just said. I made you realize that asking for ZOS to respect the way you see your nightblade's playstyle fit is not necessarily balanced and the way to fix it. This being said, my flappy wings don't allow me to reset any fight and to escape easily from any engagement. This is directly what Mage Light addresses. It gives a way to any character to counter any nightblade who wish to escape or reset a fight whenever he sees it fit.

NativeJoe wrote: »

Yes...sorcs are going to be eating nightblades alive this next patch... but that is prolly only till dark brotherhood. Between Imperial city and orsinium you guys had your hay day. From now on Zos is doing a OP cycle haha, Nightblade>sorc>DK>Templar>nightblade okay?

catalyst10e wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

Yes...sorcs are going to be eating nightblades alive this next patch... but that is prolly only till dark brotherhood. Between Imperial city and orsinium you guys had your hay day. From now on Zos is doing a OP cycle haha, Nightblade>sorc>DK>Templar>nightblade okay?

This is the attitude we do need to do away with on the "pro-mgelight change" side. While it's fine to be excited to finally have a counter that works, the idea of "it's your turn to suffer" really needs to be done away with. No one should "suffer" and if we keep going in circles where one class has to "suffer" balance will never come.

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Can't believe the NB cry. I don't know how many times I've cast things like caltrops RIGHT in front of me where the NB I'm fighting should be, and yet he's not detected because he cast a spammable ability to get away from just about anything.

I'm sorry, that's OP, needed a nerf badly, and boo hoo, now you have to fight people straight up ROFL. I'm happy for this change. Less ganking, more toe to toe. IMO that requires more skill anyway.

Mages OP now? No, they are still wearing cloth, new CP's will allow more damage to their OP shields to take them out faster. The meta for PvP is changing folks. Have to adapt and adjust.

Sorc's will be OP. If you look at what they will have its undeniable. Honestly, I feel that most of the hate from Sorc's against cloak is because it was the only thing that would occasionally stop them from face-rolling most people.

The new anti-shield CP tree is a joke and no one will use it. Why would anyone invest any CP to do "X% damage against shields", instead of "X% damage against shields and everything else without shields"? Its not like CP in Mighty doesn't apply to shields. It will only be a factor when the CP cap is much, much, higher and even then will probably not be used. The only other way this would get any attention is if it scaled differently (like up to 100%) instead of the 25% that Mighty provides.