Magelight will be OP in PVP

frozywozy · February 2016

For all the nightblades who claim that cloak is their only defensive move, here is a lil parenthesis for you. Do you know why 2-handed DKs and Templars spam Wrecking blow and rarely other skills in openworld 1vX / Small Scale PvP? Because they are kids with no brain and no skills? No. The answer to that question is the fact that without cloak, you need so many skills to survive that it makes it very hard to slot more than one or two damaging skills.

For example, on my stamDK, I run Rally, Vigor, Shuffle, Hardened Armor, Dragon Fire Scales, Fossilize and Corrosive Armor only to be able to survive. I also got most of my red CPs in magical damage mitigation and resistant (60). I run 7 pieces impen. Now, what do you run on your nightblade? How much magic damage mitigation and impen do you stack? Do you even shadow image bruh? Probably not. Barely no one use that in Cyrodiil even though it's the longest teleport of all 4 classes.

If you think that cloak is your only way to survive, you have alot to learn about mitigation options. Try to play a 2-handed stam DK or Templar and you will see how that works out for you.

Autolycus · February 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

For all the nightblades who claim that cloak is their only defensive move, here is a lil parenthesis for you. Do you know why 2-handed DKs and Templars spam Wrecking blow and rarely other skills in openworld 1vX / Small Scale PvP? Because they are kids with no brain and no skills? No. The answer to that question is the fact that without cloak, you need so many skills to survive that it makes it very hard to slot more than one or two damaging skills.

For example, on my stamDK, I run Rally, Vigor, Shuffle, Hardened Armor, Dragon Fire Scales, Fossilize and Corrosive Armor only to be able to survive. I also got most of my red CPs in magical damage mitigation and resistant (60). I run 7 pieces impen. Now, what do you run on your nightblade? How much magic damage mitigitation and impen do you stack? Do you even shadow image bruh? Probably not. Barely no one use that in Cyrodiil even though it's the longest teleport of all 4 classes.

If you think that cloak is your only way to survive, you have alot to learn about mitigation options. Try to play a 2-handed stam DK or Templar and you will see how that works out for you.

And what about those of us who don't believe that cloak is the only defensive option? What about those of us who are trying to point out that the current intended changes for the TG update are beyond reasonable? I know you personally aren't the culprit here, but I'm tired of being grouped together with the population that really does only spam cloak and surprise attack. Those of us who play without cloak, who go up against people in legitimate 1v1s and fight fair battles, and earn the respect of players from other factions who thoroughly enjoyed a good fight... we are ignored. The unrealized truth is that many of us know the NB class incredibly well, and while we see and understand where ZOS is going with these changes, we also have a very strong understanding of what it will do to the class. That doesn't make us your enemy, and that doesn't make us wrong from the get-go. The changes to magelight are too much, and need to be re-evaluated and adjusted for balance.

MrTarkanian48 · February 2016

I currently swap between 4 different characters: Mag and Stam NB, Stam Sorc, and Imperial DK that I have swapped between Mag/Stam. I started with NB, but enjoy playing others, and plan on making Stam Sorc my go-to in PVP. I don't really have a problem creating and trying new builds. With that said I created this thread for the following reason.

My prediction for ESO due to this and other changes:

1) All magicka users will slot it

2) Many stam builds will also slot it mainly for Empower while in stealth, and also for stealth detect and passive 56% resistance to stealth attacks.

3) This will result in 50-75% of players having 56% resistance to stealth attacks, neutralizing any advantage of stealth against the majority of the player base.

4) Stealth will be useless. Anyone who rolled a Wood Elf or Khajiit will have their "Stealthy" passive voided. Even stam builds that use RML to get empower from stealth will eventually give it up since even with the buff their attack will be 56% mitigated.

5)Stamina builds in general will take a hit with the change to Hardy.

6) These changes will all benefit Magicka users, but Magicka Sorcs will emerge as the ultimate class. They will slot RML. Have empower on demand. Have 56% resistance to stealth. Stack non-crittable shields. Be able to invest in infused/divines, when others need to consider investing in Impen. They will take advantage of easier access to Magica Det and all will have impressive burst with Det and Curse (and Overload and elementals with the CP change). A well equipped sorc will never die unless outnumbered, only running into issues occasionally with Magicka DK's. Everyone will complain about Mag Sorc until they get nerfed next.

7) Some stam players will be annoyed and leave the game. Some will re-roll a Sorc. Some will live with it until the next patch.

8) DB patch will hit in Q2. Vet ranks removed and Race Change will come around. Due to the imbalance in favor of magicka builds and especially sorcs, everyone will re-roll or race change. People won't just live with their under-powered builds anymore since re-rolling will be 1000% easier than it is now and less of a time sink. The game will constantly be flooded with the FOTM build with every subsequent patch's game-changing nerfs and buffs since it will be so easy to re-roll.

Overall, the devs need to make changes that create balance. This change will not bring balance.

Tone down RML by dropping the stealth damage mitigation, or some of the other perks (empower, crit) so that it is not going to be a 100% must-slot skill, and ruins the entire stealth element of the game.

I don't think removing the 56% stealth damage mitigation is unreasonable. If you have a skill that allows you to detect a player AND locks them out of stealth for 5 seconds, I don't think they should have a constant 56% mitigation against any successful stealth attacks. This combined with points in hardy will make stealth attacks hit for like 30% base damage...

Or give other classes abilities similar to Piercing Mark that provides a debuff and limits cloak.

Yes, cloak needs some adjustment.
No, the answer is not making one ability OP and more unbalanced in favor of one class and ruining stealth in an attempt to deal with cloak.

People need to get away from "You had it good before, so now it your turn to suffer", and start finding compromises that make the game balanced, otherwise this game will just keep becoming less fun to play.

Re-rolling characters will be easy soon. Race change will be reality soon. Unless the game is balanced, this game is going to turn into 80% of people running the same build after every patch.

Therium104 · February 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

davidtxr wrote: »

The battlefield will be littered with the bodies of dead Nightblades can't wait

If your battlefield isn't littered with the bodies of dead Nightblades yet, you are doing something very, very wrong. It's the class that's easiest to kill, unless you are the type of complete scrub that ZOS seems to want to balance ESO around.

You play a NB and calling others scrub? Many of us have been playing MMO for years and the ESO NB is by far the easiest and most broken OP stealth class in the history of gaming. It takes absolutely no skill to play as a NB. It is embarassing this class exists in the game in its current state. A bright wizard in Warhammer took more skill to play and that is a low bar. Trust me.

Cloak should have a minute cool down at least. Wtf.... it is insane. How can you play this class. I started playing ESO in pc launch and stopped playing because picked a DK and it was so overpowered quit the game due to boredom.

You actually enjoy hiding and spamming a few abilities to kill another player 99% of the time with absolutely no skill. The other player dies so fast cannot even react. It would be more fun to attack dps dummies. And on top of this you actually defend it. My god man.

Your views on the NB class are incredibly narrow-minded. It's clear that you lack a thorough understanding of the mechanics and the versatility within the class to provide an objective perspective on the situation, so you'll understand why this doesn't carry a lot of merit. Most of what you've said is highly subjective, and it's difficult to take seriously an opinion in which the justification of the perspective itself is unfairly biased.

Allow me to enlighten you. The majority of NBs which are complained about on these forums are perma-cloaking and stacking high enough damage to instantly kill other players. Two things I would note here: First, noot every NB plays this way. Second, your extreme views of people who prefer this playstyle aren't going to change the nature of the situation. You can hate that playstyle as much as you want, but it exists, and people are going to play that way and enjoy it. Disliking how the rogue archetype functions in this game is one thing, but criticizing other players for their preferred playstyle is not within your rights.

People on these forums need to stop viewing everyone else who plays this game as a natural-born enemy. It is reasonable and just for everyone to be balanced, and while many of the people on this specific thread disagree with your opinions, a small percentage of them actually believe the changes and nerfs are completely without merit. If those people can admit that rebalancing is important and can sincerely note where the class could benefit from improvements, then there is no reason you can't maintain an open mind as well. Calling everyone who plays a NB a skill-less scrub, who plays the "most broken stealth class in the history of MMOs" is a gross over-exaggeration, and stoops to a level of immaturity unworthy of these forums.

I don't think you are the enemy. Players need to acknowledge that success is greatly dependent on the tools provided. If you don't believe me then let's have the devs revert all buffs to NB since launch. That way when we get complaints from NB can refer to L2P and it is your fault.

The fact is NB is extremely easy to play. It is grossly overpowered. I believe a lot of the pts changes have been designed to curtail some of this OP but not near enough. Not even close.

Stop with all the detailed analysis. Just tell the devs to fix it. Lol. And it is boring to be this OP. How in world can hiding in stealth and spamming a few abilities to kill a player before they react challenging. That is your class dude. Come on.

ScruffyWhiskers · February 2016

It's true. Cloak is just one tool. I've never walked in a DK or Temps shoes or a Sorc (god forbid) but NB's have to slot other defensive skills on the bar and it's always painful for us too.

Double Take. Can't live without it.

Efficient Purge? I take it off my bar and guess what? Marked! Double tap that purge and marked again because ZOS have a RNG god ruling which of 3 debuffs get stripped first. That's crazy.

Harness Magicka. If you are engaging sorcs then a must have if you don't want to burn.

Healing Ward. The Grand Tyrant Herself! Have to run a restro staff on second bar. HAVE TO! I've goofed around with DW/DW some.....cloak is even more important if you don't want to get run over.

Shadow image? It's fun but it's a gimick. You need the right terrain. The range is always tricky and you move too far and start clicking wondering why you aren't teleporting. Smart ones catch on and make a lunch date with you at the shade.

Cloak has a bunch of counters. More than any other skill I would wager. This base line mage light detect change is just over the top. Simple as that.

Xeniph · February 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

For all the nightblades who claim that cloak is their only defensive move, here is a lil parenthesis for you. Do you know why 2-handed DKs and Templars spam Wrecking blow and rarely other skills in openworld 1vX / Small Scale PvP? Because they are kids with no brain and no skills? No. The answer to that question is the fact that without cloak, you need so many skills to survive that it makes it very hard to slot more than one or two damaging skills.

For example, on my stamDK, I run Rally, Vigor, Shuffle, Hardened Armor, Dragon Fire Scales, Fossilize and Corrosive Armor only to be able to survive. I also got most of my red CPs in magical damage mitigation and resistant (60). I run 7 pieces impen. Now, what do you run on your nightblade? How much magic damage mitigitation and impen do you stack? Do you even shadow image bruh? Probably not. Barely no one use that in Cyrodiil even though it's the longest teleport of all 4 classes.

If you think that cloak is your only way to survive, you have alot to learn about mitigation options. Try to play a 2-handed stam DK or Templar and you will see how that works out for you.

I regularly play all 4 in pvp.

I also run 7 impen on all of them but the Sorc (Shields LOL). I hear what you are trying to say. However you are illinformed if you think a NB can stack all damage, infused/divines and solo/1vX, in that respect they are no different than any class.

You also seem to think we magically have more ability slots than the other classes. I assure you I run, Rally, Vigor, Blur/shuffle, Cloak and either Clouding or Soul Tether. I also run 100 points into magical mitigation. So no, I am not magically able to do something you are not.

.We don't have your regen passives, which are friggin awesome (love my redguard DK) and you know it. Which is why you see DKs, I have even watched you do it, spam igneous to regain around 1500 stam per cast (with a 30k pool). You have fossilize, that requires the target to CC break AND roll, and you are using Hardened to get your armor buff and aoe detect. Which is basically what we do with all our abilities.

I'll give ya the Shadow image point. More people should use it, I don't like the ability personally. It doesn't fit my play style at all.

My point here is the grass is always greener on the other side and you can't compare apples to oranges. Nb's can't run infused/divines 16k hp's , 0 champ points into mitigation, slot Surprise attack and cloak only, then proceed to roll their face on the keyboard like many claim.

I have fought you many times Frozn. I have always though of you as a good opponent and we have had some good ones, but we are about even on the kill/death ratio when we are solo. But by the way you make it sound, the fact I lost must mean I am bad.

I'll try harder.

Autolycus · February 2016

Therium104 wrote: »

I don't think you are the enemy. Players need to acknowledge that success is greatly dependent on the tools provided. If you don't believe me then let's have the devs revert all buffs to NB since launch. That way when we get complaints from NB can refer to L2P and it is your fault.

The fact is NB is extremely easy to play. It is grossly overpowered. I believe a lot of the pts changes have been designed to curtail some of this OP but not near enough. Not even close.

Stop with all the detailed analysis. Just tell the devs to fix it. Lol. And it is boring to be this OP. How in world can hiding in stealth and spamming a few abilities to kill a player before they react challenging. That is your class dude. Come on.

Stop with the detailed analysis? The only reliable means we have of determining what is balanced is through analysis, through statistics. For example, your claim that being a NB is extremely easy to play is unsupported. What makes it easy to play? How does it compare to the difficulty of playing other classes? Most importantly, you're only considering for one specific playstyle for the class, and only in a single form of content, being PvP. "That is your class dude, come on." - What do you know of the class and how it's played, outside of the cliche? Have you ever tried it?? Don't pretend like you know everything about NBs when it's clear you don't know anything but the cloak-and-dagger build.

Xeniph · February 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

I don't think you are the enemy. Players need to acknowledge that success is greatly dependent on the tools provided. If you don't believe me then let's have the devs revert all buffs to NB since launch. That way when we get complaints from NB can refer to L2P and it is your fault.

The fact is NB is extremely easy to play. It is grossly overpowered. I believe a lot of the pts changes have been designed to curtail some of this OP but not near enough. Not even close.

Stop with all the detailed analysis. Just tell the devs to fix it. Lol. And it is boring to be this OP. How in world can hiding in stealth and spamming a few abilities to kill a player before they react challenging. That is your class dude. Come on.

Stop with the detailed analysis? The only reliable means we have of determining what is balanced is through analysis, through statistics. For example, your claim that being a NB is extremely easy to play is unsupported. What makes it easy to play? How does it compare to the difficulty of playing other classes? Most importantly, you're only considering for one specific playstyle for the class, and only in a single form of content, being PvP. "That is your class dude, come on." - What do you know of the class and how it's played, outside of the cliche? Have you ever tried it?? Don't pretend like you know everything about NBs when it's clear you don't know anything but the cloak-and-dagger build.

Exactly^

I leveled a Sorc to play in pvp, but I found it WAY too easy to play. It was basically no contest in solo/small scale. Which is why I only rarely ever play her anymore, I find it easy mode and boring.

But that's subjective. What I find easy, may not be what someone else does. But at least I have a geared v16 and am speaking from my person experience.

frozywozy · February 2016

Xeniph wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

For all the nightblades who claim that cloak is their only defensive move, here is a lil parenthesis for you. Do you know why 2-handed DKs and Templars spam Wrecking blow and rarely other skills in openworld 1vX / Small Scale PvP? Because they are kids with no brain and no skills? No. The answer to that question is the fact that without cloak, you need so many skills to survive that it makes it very hard to slot more than one or two damaging skills.

For example, on my stamDK, I run Rally, Vigor, Shuffle, Hardened Armor, Dragon Fire Scales, Fossilize and Corrosive Armor only to be able to survive. I also got most of my red CPs in magical damage mitigation and resistant (60). I run 7 pieces impen. Now, what do you run on your nightblade? How much magic damage mitigitation and impen do you stack? Do you even shadow image bruh? Probably not. Barely no one use that in Cyrodiil even though it's the longest teleport of all 4 classes.

If you think that cloak is your only way to survive, you have alot to learn about mitigation options. Try to play a 2-handed stam DK or Templar and you will see how that works out for you.

I regularly play all 4 in pvp.

I also run 7 impen on all of them but the Sorc (Shields LOL). I hear what you are trying to say. However you are illinformed if you think a NB can stack all damage, infused/divines and solo/1vX, in that respect they are no different than any class.

You also seem to think we magically have more ability slots than the other classes. I assure you I run, Rally, Vigor, Blur/shuffle, Cloak and either Clouding or Soul Tether. I also run 100 points into magical mitigation. So no, I am not magically able to do something you are not.

.We don't have your regen passives, which are friggin awesome (love my redguard DK) and you know it. Which is why you see DKs, I have even watched you do it, spam igneous to regain around 1500 stam per cast (with a 30k pool). You have fossilize, that requires the target to CC break AND roll, and you are using Hardened to get your armor buff and aoe detect. Which is basically what we do with all our abilities.

I'll give ya the Shadow image point. More people should use it, I don't like the ability personally. It doesn't fit my play style at all.

My point here is the grass is always greener on the other side and you can't compare apples to oranges. Nb's can't run infused/divines 16k hp's , 0 champ points into mitigation, slot Surprise attack and cloak only, then proceed to roll their face on the keyboard like many claim.

I have fought you many times Frozn. I have always though of you as a good opponent and we have had some good ones, but we are about even on the kill/death ratio when we are solo. But by the way you make it sound, the fact I lost must mean I am bad.

I'll try harder.

Dude, don't wear the hat if it doesn't suit you. I clearly mentioned in the first line of my post that I was reffering to people who QQ everywhere in this thread saying they will unsub, reroll sorc or stop playing the game if this change goes live because they won't be able to play their class anymore. If you run either Vigor, Rally, Shuffle, Healing Ward, Blur, Blessing of Restoration, Shadow Image, Fear, Efficient Purge, Mist Form and stack alot of your champion points in damage mitigation, you're doing fine. But what I suspect is that most people complaining in this thread stating that Cloak is their only counter is the fact that they simply don't have enough damage mitigation and are too stubborn to sacrifice some damaging or support abilities over defensive ones.

Xeniph · February 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

For all the nightblades who claim that cloak is their only defensive move, here is a lil parenthesis for you. Do you know why 2-handed DKs and Templars spam Wrecking blow and rarely other skills in openworld 1vX / Small Scale PvP? Because they are kids with no brain and no skills? No. The answer to that question is the fact that without cloak, you need so many skills to survive that it makes it very hard to slot more than one or two damaging skills.

For example, on my stamDK, I run Rally, Vigor, Shuffle, Hardened Armor, Dragon Fire Scales, Fossilize and Corrosive Armor only to be able to survive. I also got most of my red CPs in magical damage mitigation and resistant (60). I run 7 pieces impen. Now, what do you run on your nightblade? How much magic damage mitigitation and impen do you stack? Do you even shadow image bruh? Probably not. Barely no one use that in Cyrodiil even though it's the longest teleport of all 4 classes.

If you think that cloak is your only way to survive, you have alot to learn about mitigation options. Try to play a 2-handed stam DK or Templar and you will see how that works out for you.

I regularly play all 4 in pvp.

I also run 7 impen on all of them but the Sorc (Shields LOL). I hear what you are trying to say. However you are illinformed if you think a NB can stack all damage, infused/divines and solo/1vX, in that respect they are no different than any class.

You also seem to think we magically have more ability slots than the other classes. I assure you I run, Rally, Vigor, Blur/shuffle, Cloak and either Clouding or Soul Tether. I also run 100 points into magical mitigation. So no, I am not magically able to do something you are not.

.We don't have your regen passives, which are friggin awesome (love my redguard DK) and you know it. Which is why you see DKs, I have even watched you do it, spam igneous to regain around 1500 stam per cast (with a 30k pool). You have fossilize, that requires the target to CC break AND roll, and you are using Hardened to get your armor buff and aoe detect. Which is basically what we do with all our abilities.

I'll give ya the Shadow image point. More people should use it, I don't like the ability personally. It doesn't fit my play style at all.

My point here is the grass is always greener on the other side and you can't compare apples to oranges. Nb's can't run infused/divines 16k hp's , 0 champ points into mitigation, slot Surprise attack and cloak only, then proceed to roll their face on the keyboard like many claim.

I have fought you many times Frozn. I have always though of you as a good opponent and we have had some good ones, but we are about even on the kill/death ratio when we are solo. But by the way you make it sound, the fact I lost must mean I am bad.

I'll try harder.

Dude, don't wear the hat if it doesn't suit you. I clearly mentioned in the first line of my post that I was reffering to people who QQ everywhere in this thread saying they will unsub, reroll sorc or stop playing the game if this change goes live because they won't be able to play their class anymore. If you run either Vigor, Rally, Shuffle, Healing Ward, Blur, Blessing of Restoration, Shadow Image, Fear, Efficient Purge, Mist Form and stack alot of your champion points in damage mitigation, you're doing fine. But what I suspect is that most people complaining in this thread stating that Cloak is their only counter is the fact that they simply don't have enough damage mitigation and are too stubborn to sacrifice some damaging or support abilities over defensive ones.

True enough, I'll give you that.

However a lot of us have a legitimate concern that this change overly impacts our prefered play style. I truly have no issues with balance. The main reason I play my NB over my DK/Templar in solo and 1vX is because I can choose my battles and escape easier. Even though, I feel, the other 2 are better at the other aspects. ( I absolutely hate my Sorc, snooze fest)

However it's getting difficult to see the actual constructive feedback with all the "OMG NB is so OP and cheesy" responses.

The Magelight changes are over the top, and will certainly provide a very toxic environment for the stealth community. These are the concerns I would like addressed.

catalyst10e · February 2016

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

My prediction for ESO due to this and other changes:

1) All magicka users will slot it

Probably, tho it could be argued it should have been there anyways.

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

2) Many stam builds will also slot it mainly for Empower while in stealth, and also for stealth detect and passive 56% resistance to stealth attacks.

With every magicka user slotting it, it'd hardly be worth it to slot it on a stamina build, unless your build really struggles against NB classes. But I know some have said they would put it on their stam build still.

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

3) This will result in 50-75% of players having 56% resistance to stealth attacks, neutralizing any advantage of stealth against the majority of the player base.

neutralizing would imply 100% immunity, it's a 56% resistance. Which would be scary, if the skill wasn't already doing that, and NB dont seem to have an issue killing people who already slot the skill. NB still do a lot of burst damage, even without the stealth added damage.

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

4) Stealth will be useless. Anyone who rolled a Wood Elf or Khajiit will have their "Stealthy" passive voided. Even stam builds that use RML to get empower from stealth will eventually give it up since even with the buff their attack will be 56% mitigated.

Stealth has many uses outside of just bonus damage. It's this type of mindset that gets NBs into trouble. You're also putting a lot of emphasis on the 3% racial stealth bonus you get from Khajiit and Bosmer. If you picked the race FOR that passive I do sympathize, but again it's not a total 100% immunity to the damage. If you're referring to the stam NB who slotted it for the empower, I don't think they'd give up that bonus just because some damage is being mitigated. Who deals their damage, and then decides they want to do LESS damage just because of some resistance?

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

5)Stamina builds in general will take a hit with the change to Hardy.

I'd like to see some more explanation on this one... most magicka sorcs are still going to put points into bastion over hardy, if anything this HELPS the NBs who are getting a lock out on their "only defense"

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

6) These changes will all benefit Magicka users, but Magicka Sorcs will emerge as the ultimate class. They will slot RML. Have empower on demand. Have 56% resistance to stealth. Stack non-crittable shields. Be able to invest in infused/divines, when others need to consider investing in Impen. They will take advantage of easier access to Magica Det and all will have impressive burst with Det and Curse (and Overload and elementals with the CP change). A well equipped sorc will never die unless outnumbered, only running into issues occasionally with Magicka DK's. Everyone will complain about Mag Sorc until they get nerfed next.

While I agree the changes implemented largely benefit Magicka builds, and at present, yeah were prolly gunna see more sorcs.... Do you know what's good at killing a sorc? a DK. They're tanky, they use reflect, a lot of their skills are getting much needed buffs/changes, the DOTs will damage shields... So if there's an abundance of Sorcs, there will most likely be some DKs that can counter them, they LOVE to counter sorcs. and I constantly hear my NB buddies claim they love to gank DKs. So in short, yeah things are gunna change we're gunna see a bunch of changes happen rather quickly. inb4 you say the DKs will also have the RML slotted; true, but again, it didnt stop them before, and it will continue to not stop them now.

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

7) Some stam players will be annoyed and leave the game. Some will re-roll a Sorc. Some will live with it until the next patch.

This one change is the coming apocalypse? THIS is what makes people leave? that's being a little dramatic... Stamina was the meta for a long time, and it didnt get a nerf, things will change but it doesnt look like Stamina users are just going to give up because magelight changed, and hardy was altered to include physical damage. most players will adapt and evolve.

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

8) DB patch will hit in Q2. Vet ranks removed and Race Change will come around. Due to the imbalance in favor of magicka builds and especially sorcs, everyone will re-roll or race change. People won't just live with their under-powered builds anymore since re-rolling will be 1000% easier than it is now and less of a time sink. The game will constantly be flooded with the FOTM build with every subsequent patch's game-changing nerfs and buffs since it will be so easy to re-roll.

And how do you know the DB patch wont also add in things for stamina users? Read through the suggestion pages, that's all anyone is asking for. "the magicka changes were great and very much needed but wheres my crystal sword that uses stamina?" Magicka builds needed some love to compete with the stamina builds, more specifically the magicka DK. DB is still too far out to start predicting what it will change. People who re-roll the FotM builds will do that no matter who is on top, untill they have a full roster to just rotate around so they feel like their always on top. People don't just roll their favorite class and the second it takes a balance hit suddenly jump to becoming FotM people. Speaking of flooding tho, we're currently flooded with NB, since the best counter to a NB is another NB. but the best counter to a sorc, isnt always another sorc, So while FotM during TG will most likely be sorc, I can almost guarantee there will be less sorcs then, than there are NB now.

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

Overall, the devs need to make changes that create balance. This change will not bring balance.

THIS is the compromise. The cloak counter got a buff, instead of nerfing the cloak directly, they've made the counter to it more appealing. The only thing you wont be able to do is cloak immediately after your burst to regain resources. the assault and support lines are also getting a fix that makes it WAY easier to max out the skill line, so use vigor for your heals, toss some caltrops for snare, rapid maneuver to get away. Try using Shadow image to gain some ground or confuse your opponent, slot dampen magic, hardend ward and immoveable brute and start shield stacking for yourself. mass hysteria to lock out magicka users from all abilities for 4 seconds, and yeah you can break free, but thats not always easy to do when you have little to no stamina. Theres plenty of options available to you.

If your play style centered around resetting the battlefield, regaining resources while your opponent wasted theirs just looking for you, then I'm sorry to say, yes this aspect is what's being targeted. I'm sorry if you found the most fun in that, and it's now being taken away but it is distinctly not fun to go into a player vs player environment, and not actually VS a player, rather they get a death recap without ample time to respond, or worse they get frustrated with what feels like an unfair advantage since the counters offered were not actually countering. Cloak negates ALL single target abilities across all classes, ignored CC abilities like talon or restraining prison, purged negative effects, could even be used to dodge certain skills, gave a damage boost, allowed you to regain all resources, and now we have an ability to lock that out for a few seconds, when you're "caught" which even in its current form, is the widely agreed upon method for killing a NB, keep on them and don't let them cloak.

Tryxus · February 2016

I haven't exactly read the entire thread, so I don't know if the things I'm mentioning here have alrdy been said. But I just wanted to share my opinion here

I'm a MagBlade. To me, the changes to both Cloak and Magelight have been generous buffs since Cloak has been made more versatile to MagBlades and as Magicka builds we can change our gameplay by swapping Cloak with Inner Light. Pretty sure this means that MagBlades are still high up on the foodchain, 2nd place tied with Mag DK imo...

But am I happy with the new Magelight skill? No! Cuz I have 3 main gripes with the skill...

1. Inner Light: all pros, no cons

What does Inner Light provide us?

- Extra Magicka (while slotted)
- Extra Spell Crit (while slotted)
- Extra Regen (Passive)
- Empower (Activate + Passive)
- Stealth Detection (Activate)
- Reduced Stealth Attack Damage (Activate)
- ...

Inner Light? A single skill that provides a hefty amount of buffs without any single drawback to it? Totally unbalanced

2. Not a single Gap Closer in the world can bridge the distance between Stamina and Magicka now

Let's face it: Stamina builds have it more difficult now that Hardy provides Physical Damage reduction but now on top of that Magicka Builds can buff themselves even further with Magelight now that it's no longer a toggle.

The skill now clearly increases the power gap between Stamina and Magicka

3. Revealing Flare? Never heard of it

How easy is it to obtain Magelight? Pretty sure 95% of every lvl 10 and above have it unlocked and morphed when they enter Cyrodiil for the first time. Revealing Flare on the other hand is a skill that is rewarded to you for playing PvP and eventually reaching the required rank

So why is it that an easier to obtain skill (Magelight) provides the same effects and more buffs than a PvP skill that has to be earned by effectively PvPing (Revealing Flare)?

Honestly, I think that ppl should be awarded for PvPing by obtaining the best PvP skills in the game. Ppl shouldn't have the best anti-class skills unlocked after only an hour of playing, they should actually PvP for those.

Not saying that RML shouldn't be anti-stealth, it should and I'm happy it is. But the added 5 sec debuff along with the other bonuses from the Mages Guild skill line makes Revealing Flare look like a pushover. And it's much easier to obtain Magelight too.

(Sidenote: it's also kinda ironic that the AP grind has been reduced, but they now use other skills instead for PvP. The irony is so thick you can cut it with a knife)

These are basically my thoughts. No matter what happens to the skill, as a MagBlade I'm still happy with the changes. But it would ofc be nice if ganking/stealthing remains viable in PvP. It's a playstyle, a cheap one but a playstyle none the less

catalyst10e · February 2016

Tryxus wrote: »

I haven't exactly read the entire thread, so I don't know if the things I'm mentioning here have alrdy been said. But I just wanted to share my opinion here

I'm a MagBlade. To me, the changes to both Cloak and Magelight have been generous buffs since Cloak has been made more versatile to MagBlades and as Magicka builds we can change our gameplay by swapping Cloak with Inner Light. Pretty sure this means that MagBlades are still high up on the foodchain, 2nd place tied with Mag DK imo...

But am I happy with the new Magelight skill? No! Cuz I have 3 main gripes with the skill...

1. Inner Light: all pros, no cons

just a quick question here, Why does a morph need to even provide a con? What other ability morph comes with a con attached to it? I'm looking through some of the ones I've never used before, but I'm not seeing any that list a con in the morph. It's always an option of playstyle.
I think the original idea of toggle effects like magelight was to treat them like Dragon Age did, where sustained effects remove a % of your resource as the "trade off" of always being on. Which would make sense, except it's the only toggle effect with that drawback, and as far as I can see, the only skill WITH a drawback at all. I'd be inclined to agree with this point if Cloak also had some sort of "drawback" such as no resource regeneration, or a decrease in movement speed.

Tryxus · February 2016

catalyst10e wrote: »

Tryxus wrote: »

I haven't exactly read the entire thread, so I don't know if the things I'm mentioning here have alrdy been said. But I just wanted to share my opinion here

I'm a MagBlade. To me, the changes to both Cloak and Magelight have been generous buffs since Cloak has been made more versatile to MagBlades and as Magicka builds we can change our gameplay by swapping Cloak with Inner Light. Pretty sure this means that MagBlades are still high up on the foodchain, 2nd place tied with Mag DK imo...

But am I happy with the new Magelight skill? No! Cuz I have 3 main gripes with the skill...

1. Inner Light: all pros, no cons

just a quick question here, Why does a morph need to even provide a con? What other ability morph comes with a con attached to it? I'm looking through some of the ones I've never used before, but I'm not seeing any that list a con in the morph. It's always an option of playstyle.
I think the original idea of toggle effects like magelight was to treat them like Dragon Age did, where sustained effects remove a % of your resource as the "trade off" of always being on. Which would make sense, except it's the only toggle effect with that drawback, and as far as I can see, the only skill WITH a drawback at all. I'd be inclined to agree with this point if Cloak also had some sort of "drawback" such as no resource regeneration, or a decrease in movement speed.

It was more a figure of speech actually:

At this point, Inner Light provides too many bonuses to the caster: Magicka, Regen, Spell Crit, Empower,... etc Making it quite powerful for Magicka builds (if not OP)

Personally, I liked it better when Inner Light provided Magicka based bonuses and RML anti-stealth bonuses. IMO, it would've been better if they were seperated again

Therium104 · February 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

I don't think you are the enemy. Players need to acknowledge that success is greatly dependent on the tools provided. If you don't believe me then let's have the devs revert all buffs to NB since launch. That way when we get complaints from NB can refer to L2P and it is your fault.

The fact is NB is extremely easy to play. It is grossly overpowered. I believe a lot of the pts changes have been designed to curtail some of this OP but not near enough. Not even close.

Stop with all the detailed analysis. Just tell the devs to fix it. Lol. And it is boring to be this OP. How in world can hiding in stealth and spamming a few abilities to kill a player before they react challenging. That is your class dude. Come on.

Stop with the detailed analysis? The only reliable means we have of determining what is balanced is through analysis, through statistics. For example, your claim that being a NB is extremely easy to play is unsupported. What makes it easy to play? How does it compare to the difficulty of playing other classes? Most importantly, you're only considering for one specific playstyle for the class, and only in a single form of content, being PvP. "That is your class dude, come on." - What do you know of the class and how it's played, outside of the cliche? Have you ever tried it?? Don't pretend like you know everything about NBs when it's clear you don't know anything but the cloak-and-dagger build.

I am just saying look at the big picture.

Therium104 · February 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

For all the nightblades who claim that cloak is their only defensive move, here is a lil parenthesis for you. Do you know why 2-handed DKs and Templars spam Wrecking blow and rarely other skills in openworld 1vX / Small Scale PvP? Because they are kids with no brain and no skills? No. The answer to that question is the fact that without cloak, you need so many skills to survive that it makes it very hard to slot more than one or two damaging skills.

For example, on my stamDK, I run Rally, Vigor, Shuffle, Hardened Armor, Dragon Fire Scales, Fossilize and Corrosive Armor only to be able to survive. I also got most of my red CPs in magical damage mitigation and resistant (60). I run 7 pieces impen. Now, what do you run on your nightblade? How much magic damage mitigation and impen do you stack? Do you even shadow image bruh? Probably not. Barely no one use that in Cyrodiil even though it's the longest teleport of all 4 classes.

If you think that cloak is your only way to survive, you have alot to learn about mitigation options. Try to play a 2-handed stam DK or Templar and you will see how that works out for you.

Interesting post and so true. Thank You.

[Deleted User] · February 2016

Hello everyone!

In the course of this discussion, we've had to remove a number of posts. While posting on any thread, please remember to stay constructive towards the topic, and civil with your fellow forums members. Any continuation of uncivil and disruptive behavior will lead to the thread being locked. As always, be sure to abide by the forums rules for further posts.

Many thanks!

Autolycus · February 2016

Therium104 wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

I don't think you are the enemy. Players need to acknowledge that success is greatly dependent on the tools provided. If you don't believe me then let's have the devs revert all buffs to NB since launch. That way when we get complaints from NB can refer to L2P and it is your fault.

The fact is NB is extremely easy to play. It is grossly overpowered. I believe a lot of the pts changes have been designed to curtail some of this OP but not near enough. Not even close.

Stop with all the detailed analysis. Just tell the devs to fix it. Lol. And it is boring to be this OP. How in world can hiding in stealth and spamming a few abilities to kill a player before they react challenging. That is your class dude. Come on.

Stop with the detailed analysis? The only reliable means we have of determining what is balanced is through analysis, through statistics. For example, your claim that being a NB is extremely easy to play is unsupported. What makes it easy to play? How does it compare to the difficulty of playing other classes? Most importantly, you're only considering for one specific playstyle for the class, and only in a single form of content, being PvP. "That is your class dude, come on." - What do you know of the class and how it's played, outside of the cliche? Have you ever tried it?? Don't pretend like you know everything about NBs when it's clear you don't know anything but the cloak-and-dagger build.

I am just saying look at the big picture.

Of all the people who comment on these forums, I am within the minority percentage that actually does look at the big picture. That was the point of my whole statement above, which you quoted. So many people cry out relentlessly for nerfs to a class which they don't understand, and draw conclusions based on causal relationships which frequently are pulled from context and spun to suit a particular argument. These people don't think about the impact of those changes on the class on the whole, or how that class will stand against the other three when all is said and done.

This change to magelight is a perfect example of just that. It is the response of ZOS to a plethora of threads whose sole purpose is to focus narrowly on a single aspect of a build in a single form of content and tear it down. A normal call for rebalance would result in minor adjustments to skills that make things either more fair, or more challenging for the class in question (in this case NBs). Instead, the proposed changes gives every character in the game a unique counter that forcefully breaks a skill unique to a class. It's not the same as something like Shieldbreaker, which is limited to a particular build and doesn't prevent every sorc in the game from using their skills, just makes them less effective against those particular individuals. The change to magelight prevents casting a skill that provides access to NB passives.

People thought that Surprise Attack was OP prior to this change, but does anyone believe that Surprise Attack is going to be spammed less, now that it's the only useful skill (aside from shades) that allows access to passives?

Junkogen · February 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

I don't think you are the enemy. Players need to acknowledge that success is greatly dependent on the tools provided. If you don't believe me then let's have the devs revert all buffs to NB since launch. That way when we get complaints from NB can refer to L2P and it is your fault.

The fact is NB is extremely easy to play. It is grossly overpowered. I believe a lot of the pts changes have been designed to curtail some of this OP but not near enough. Not even close.

Stop with all the detailed analysis. Just tell the devs to fix it. Lol. And it is boring to be this OP. How in world can hiding in stealth and spamming a few abilities to kill a player before they react challenging. That is your class dude. Come on.

Stop with the detailed analysis? The only reliable means we have of determining what is balanced is through analysis, through statistics. For example, your claim that being a NB is extremely easy to play is unsupported. What makes it easy to play? How does it compare to the difficulty of playing other classes? Most importantly, you're only considering for one specific playstyle for the class, and only in a single form of content, being PvP. "That is your class dude, come on." - What do you know of the class and how it's played, outside of the cliche? Have you ever tried it?? Don't pretend like you know everything about NBs when it's clear you don't know anything but the cloak-and-dagger build.

I am just saying look at the big picture.

Of all the people who comment on these forums, I am within the minority percentage that actually does look at the big picture. That was the point of my whole statement above, which you quoted. So many people cry out relentlessly for nerfs to a class which they don't understand, and draw conclusions based on causal relationships which frequently are pulled from context and spun to suit a particular argument. These people don't think about the impact of those changes on the class on the whole, or how that class will stand against the other three when all is said and done.

This change to magelight is a perfect example of just that. It is the response of ZOS to a plethora of threads whose sole purpose is to focus narrowly on a single aspect of a build in a single form of content and tear it down. A normal call for rebalance would result in minor adjustments to skills that make things either more fair, or more challenging for the class in question (in this case NBs). Instead, the proposed changes gives every character in the game a unique counter that forcefully breaks a skill unique to a class. It's not the same as something like Shieldbreaker, which is limited to a particular build and doesn't prevent every sorc in the game from using their skills, just makes them less effective against those particular individuals. The change to magelight prevents casting a skill that provides access to NB passives.

People thought that Surprise Attack was OP prior to this change, but does anyone believe that Surprise Attack is going to be spammed less, now that it's the only useful skill (aside from shades) that allows access to passives?

Autolycus for President!

Very well stated. This effectively sums up the overnerf of NBs, stealth, and invisibility. People need to remember that NBs aren't the only class that utilize stealth tactics. Every class can sneak, use batswarm, and invisibility potions. Bosmer and Khajiit have passives specifically for stealth. Magelight affects way more than just cloak. In people's vindictive rush to exact revenge against NBs for running away or ganking, like you said, we must be careful to not destroy a class and playstyle many players enjoy.

Lava_Croft · February 2016

Therium104 wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

davidtxr wrote: »

The battlefield will be littered with the bodies of dead Nightblades can't wait

If your battlefield isn't littered with the bodies of dead Nightblades yet, you are doing something very, very wrong. It's the class that's easiest to kill, unless you are the type of complete scrub that ZOS seems to want to balance ESO around.

You play a NB and calling others scrub? Many of us have been playing MMO for years and the ESO NB is by far the easiest and most broken OP stealth class in the history of gaming. It takes absolutely no skill to play as a NB. It is embarassing this class exists in the game in its current state. A bright wizard in Warhammer took more skill to play and that is a low bar. Trust me.

Cloak should have a minute cool down at least. Wtf.... it is insane. How can you play this class. I started playing ESO in pc launch and stopped playing because picked a DK and it was so overpowered quit the game due to boredom.

You actually enjoy hiding and spamming a few abilities to kill another player 99% of the time with absolutely no skill. The other player dies so fast cannot even react. It would be more fun to attack dps dummies. And on top of this you actually defend it. My god man.

I play a Magicka Nightblade since the beta, fought your overpowered Magicka Dragon Knight for a year and wept when crybabies like you got the Magicka Dragon Knight nerfed into the ground.

Don't you worry though, good Nightblades will still kill you since contrary to what you might believe, Cloak is far from the only tool we can use to rid Cyrodiil of terribad players. I'll await the threads to get Shadow Image nerfed, Immovability potions nerfed, Rapid Maneuver nerfed, Double Take nerfed and so on.

Lyrander · February 2016

Xeniph wrote: »

revonine wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

L2P use radiant magelight.

Yes, now I think a lot of ppl will.

Cry more NB gankers we probably lost a lot of players in Cyrodiil and IC to u

This is bigger than whatever gripe you have with NB cloak. In magelight current form it also negates invisibility pots and an ULTIMATE ability.
Magelight is SO good atm that most magicka builds will run it. There's far too great a risk for someone to waste 200 base Ultimate on a Clouding Swarm if it's negated by the press of a button. That morph will be very much not viable. Vamps have a hard enough time in Cyro atm being big fat targets for one shot builds without this.

Most magicka builds hell!

During our testing I was able to cast is every 4 seconds and regen to full, while chasing a magicka nb. This was with 1200 magica regen on a stamina spec.

EVERYONE will run it. There is literally no reason not to run Radiant over Inner in pvp. +5% magicka is chicken scratch compared to -50% stealth damage and immunity to stealth stuns and empower without needing a target.. I know I will have it on even my stamina gankers.

You are right mister.
I dunno if anyone already suggested this but why not simply move the stealth revealing ability from radiant to inner light?

Then ppl will have to decide:
-do you want protection from stealth attacks?
-or do you want to reveal stealthed enemys?

Imo that would make way more sense. Plus both morphs would be useful without one being superior over the other one.
Im a magicka based Player but i think that would be more fair.

What do you guys think?
Its still only PTS and I believe we can change things - thats what testing is for.

Tell me your thoughts on this.

AddictionX · February 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

For all the nightblades who claim that cloak is their only defensive move, here is a lil parenthesis for you. Do you know why 2-handed DKs and Templars spam Wrecking blow and rarely other skills in openworld 1vX / Small Scale PvP? Because they are kids with no brain and no skills? No. The answer to that question is the fact that without cloak, you need so many skills to survive that it makes it very hard to slot more than one or two damaging skills.

For example, on my stamDK, I run Rally, Vigor, Shuffle, Hardened Armor, Dragon Fire Scales, Fossilize and Corrosive Armor only to be able to survive. I also got most of my red CPs in magical damage mitigation and resistant (60). I run 7 pieces impen. Now, what do you run on your nightblade? How much magic damage mitigation and impen do you stack? Do you even shadow image bruh? Probably not. Barely no one use that in Cyrodiil even though it's the longest teleport of all 4 classes.

If you think that cloak is your only way to survive, you have alot to learn about mitigation options. Try to play a 2-handed stam DK or Templar and you will see how that works out for you.

BAM nailed it... they still have great passives.

Lava_Croft · February 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

For all the nightblades who claim that cloak is their only defensive move, here is a lil parenthesis for you. Do you know why 2-handed DKs and Templars spam Wrecking blow and rarely other skills in openworld 1vX / Small Scale PvP? Because they are kids with no brain and no skills? No. The answer to that question is the fact that without cloak, you need so many skills to survive that it makes it very hard to slot more than one or two damaging skills.

For example, on my stamDK, I run Rally, Vigor, Shuffle, Hardened Armor, Dragon Fire Scales, Fossilize and Corrosive Armor only to be able to survive. I also got most of my red CPs in magical damage mitigation and resistant (60). I run 7 pieces impen. Now, what do you run on your nightblade? How much magic damage mitigation and impen do you stack? Do you even shadow image bruh? Probably not. Barely no one use that in Cyrodiil even though it's the longest teleport of all 4 classes.

If you think that cloak is your only way to survive, you have alot to learn about mitigation options. Try to play a 2-handed stam DK or Templar and you will see how that works out for you.

There is not a single decent Nightblade in ESO that depends solely on Shadow Cloak in order to survive. I have to use all my 12 skills and swap weapons constantly in order to survive, since Shadow Cloak is but a small part of the survival game.

AddictionX · February 2016

Xeniph wrote: »

.We don't have your regen passives, which are friggin awesome (love my redguard DK) and you know it. Which is why you see DKs, I have even watched you do it, spam igneous to regain around 1500 stam per cast (with a 30k pool).

Wait what the hell xD ok... What you like is the redguard passive, which has very little to really to do with DK passives... i dare you to play it with something that doesnt have

Restores 993 Stamina whenever you damage an enemy with a melee attack. This can happen no more than once every 3 seconds.

Increases max stamina by 10%.

Increases stamina recovery while in combat by 9%.

DK regen passives.

Burning Heart

Increases healing received by 12% while a Draconic ability is activated.

Viable? only if you use green dragons blood, or harden armor. But one of the those two are not really up to par with other class heals. Situational to get the benifits of this passive.. yes.

Elder Dragon

Increases Health Recovery by 4% for each Draconic Power ability slotted.

Viable? not really... Even if it increased health recovery by 25 percent by having all draconic power abilities and out of those abilities listed maybe only the ultimate and the harden armor really make it anywhere... green dragons blood where we are paying 3.5k magicka for the regen every 24 seconds... takes up a slot and is not useful as a self heal... even with the massive cost. (but this number gets bumped to a 29 percent stamina regen with Green dragons blood with redguard.)

Cool So battle roar restores 70 percent of the ultimate cost

Restore Health, Magicka, and Stamina. Restore amount increased by 70% of the ultimate cost. Viable .... yes. Read below how this isnt an excuse for it to be on par with NB 15 percent regen stat though here is why.

Now the Base value restored for ANY ultimate casted is 700 Magicka, Health and Stamina at level 50. This is then increased by 70% of ultimate cost BEFORE and ultimate cost reduction effects.

For example: Standard of Might - Cost 250 ultimate

700 base value + 140 (70% of 250) Health, Magicka, and Stamina.

Devouring Swarm - can have cost reduced by many methods but this does not effect return with battle roar)

700 base value + 140 (70% of 200) Health, Magicka, and Stamina.

So now lets take that regen passive 15 percent to all the stats.

You gain x ammount of regen every 2 seconds on top of your stats. Say with 1800 regen thats about 2100 with that stat. So thats an extra 300 every two seconds. At 4 seconds thats 600 total return.They have outpaced us with out using any skills or ultimates.

Helping Hands

Restores 5% Stamina when activating an Earthen Heart ability. While this might seem like it would help out stamina DK at first glance keep in mind we have small magicka pools...

so with the average less than 30k (23k-27k is more reasonable for non-redguard also because I can choose the magic number where helping hands becomes a good passive but with that you need close to 30k stamina) which is less than 1.5k and closer too 1k... What you enjoy are not really the DK passives as much as the redguard ones that go along with min/max... Sorry i missed the part where redguard was the only race available for DK...

So instead you argued the redguard passives are good, not the DK passives.

lathbury · February 2016

Xeven wrote: »

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

I think you guys are overreacting. Anyone who was killing NB without magelight before is still going to kill them now. As a magsorc I struggled to find space on my bar for inner light in PvP. With the update I was hopeful that I could slot it on the back bar and still have the passives active on my main bar.

That is not the case.

Anyone who was not slotting it due to space issues, will still not be slotting it in the Thieves Guild update.

Xeven, I think, is correct here.

In its current state, you would be crazy as a Magicka build to not slot this ability. It will be the most powerful PVP ability in the game. Stam builds will even run it for the Empower and detection ability. Sorcs didn't slot it before because they need entropy for the Empower buff, which they can now drop for this. They also would have to double bar it before, which they no longer do. They will no longer take 5% reduced Magicka, and will get 2% increased Magicka and Mag regen. You will passively get 56% resistance to stealth attacks and immunity to stuns from stealth. You will get a way to expose NB's and other stealthed enemies withing 12 meters.

People didn't have room for it before, but I guarantee they will ALL find room for it now.

You people that are flipping out over magelight empower need to imply some logic and look at it objectively. Empower is only good if it is activated with a high damage ability. (Wrecking blow/Ambush)

Ask yourself this. Would you rather spend two global cooldowns and get a 20% damage bonus on a single ability, or would you rather spend two global cooldowns on two full damage abilities?

The optimal answer is that it's almost always better to spend those cooldowns on damage abilities. The empower on magelight is almost worthless. That magelight buffed frag you just casted was a DPS loss. You're gimping yourself.

yeah but a magelight buffed meteor?

contact.opiumb16_ESO · February 2016

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

It reveal's stealth and invisible player's for an 8 meter radius when you activate it for 5 seconds, once someone is revealed they cannot return to stealth or invisibility for 5 second's...... WTF ZOS

ONLY radiant mage light should have this function. might as well delete nightblade's now. literally every magicka build is going to be running this skill now.

I personally love the shadow cloak change. it's this one with mage light that completely ruin's shadow cloak play.

might as well not even run this ability (shadow cloak)....

I guess siphoning attacks will replace it and you will just roll and cc with the new eternal hunt set.

Mouhahahahahahahaha !!!!!! QQ more please , then reroll templar and cry for real dude

lathbury · February 2016

frozywozy wrote: »

For all the nightblades who claim that cloak is their only defensive move, here is a lil parenthesis for you. Do you know why 2-handed DKs and Templars spam Wrecking blow and rarely other skills in openworld 1vX / Small Scale PvP? Because they are kids with no brain and no skills? No. The answer to that question is the fact that without cloak, you need so many skills to survive that it makes it very hard to slot more than one or two damaging skills.

For example, on my stamDK, I run Rally, Vigor, Shuffle, Hardened Armor, Dragon Fire Scales, Fossilize and Corrosive Armor only to be able to survive. I also got most of my red CPs in magical damage mitigation and resistant (60). I run 7 pieces impen. Now, what do you run on your nightblade? How much magic damage mitigation and impen do you stack? Do you even shadow image bruh? Probably not. Barely no one use that in Cyrodiil even though it's the longest teleport of all 4 classes.

If you think that cloak is your only way to survive, you have alot to learn about mitigation options. Try to play a 2-handed stam DK or Templar and you will see how that works out for you.

your argument is flawed in that a magika nb has none of those skills the only true defensive skill we had was cloak teleport doesnt work as an escape as well as you might think as its nothing to a sorc to keep hitting you at range itsnot repeatable like streak which btw still needs nerfing

RinaldoGandolphi · February 2016

Honestly, RML is fine with one exception...Empower

@Wrobel you gotta remove the Empower from Magelight, The other changes are ok, your giving up a damage or whatever skill for stealth detection and protection, but the Empowerment from Might of the Guild procing off Magelight is simply too much. the Stealth detection and damage reduction is probably fine though, Empower however is just over the top...

Cinnamon_Spider · February 2016

blur wrote: »

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I'm glad they are finally adding stealth detection back to the base skill and both morphs. I go through a ton of detect pots every night and now I'll be able to free up that cooldown.

This will also be very useful in non vet, where detect pots last about 4 seconds at lower levels and roaming bands of NB cloak without care.

Yeah because using Radiant Magelight is hard and we should have a natural counter to everything without sacrificing a skill slot or putting forth effort. #trainingwheels#pvp

I do PVP and PVE, so Inner Light will always be my morph since I refuse to respec morphs when I switch between the two.

Inner Light used to have stealth detection built in many patches ago before they added the max magic buff. It was silly to take it away. I think having to activate it for the buff is reasonable.

Having stealth detection as part of the base skill will also be extremely helpful in non vet PVP, since skill points are not plentiful. I can stop wasting mats making low level detect pots to counter all the NB rerolls when I play there.

Alcast · February 2016

zyk wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

I think its great that it'll take more to actually gank some one... the camo hunter >surprise attack> cloak repeat.... was abit over the top.

Actually, no. Gankers will barely be impacted. The target will be dead before having a chance to activate Inner Light. This change hurts NB skirmisher builds. Especially Magicka builds that use cloak as an alternative to roll dodge.

This change is more likely to increase the rate of gankers as more NBs will be pigeon-holed into doing so.

?

Reapply inner light every 15s and you are good to go. If you are too lazy to reapply and and get ganked, then well it is definitely your own fault.