ThatNeonZebraAgain wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

No, when the changes are eventually applied, the balance will be finally restored.
For a long time we've been experiencing a huge advantage of NBs over any other class. The cloak + ambush are (soon: were) the pain in the arse of 30% of players playing classes other than the NB. Yeah, approx. 70% of chars I see in PvP (especially in Imperial City) are the NBs (check the polls on the forum). This fact just speaks for itself: this class is now the easiest-to-play and the most OP. It is obvious that it needs a nerf to restore the balance to the game (or rather to PvP). It's also understandable that people who play the NBs are opposing the changes but it's just inevitable. That issue has been talked about for a long time.
The changes made to magelight are really a clever way to do so. NBs will be still attractive though. The stealth detection from inner light will require its cast so basically the NBs can hide behind the cloak just before the first attack which is enough.

Tyrion87: Joined October 2015. Pretty much what I thought. Not that when you started playing invalidates your opinion, but it can help explain a lack of perspective.

Since launch NBs have always been a hugely popular class because that archetype is what a lot of people enjoy. They also make great tanks and healers (well less so after this update...), so it also brings flexibility across roles and builds. The class was comparatively underpowered (largely from broken abilities, including Cloak) up until last summer when game-wide buffs to stamina and key NB class bug fixes finally turned the class around.

Every class has a powerful playstyle not just NB (stamina DK, magicka sorc), and even then one's own skill and knowledge of your build will almost always trump a bad player trying to use a FOTM build. There have been dozens, if not hundreds, of posts outlining why Cloak was central to NB PvP playstyle and has many counters and limitations, but as usual ZOS over reaches their balancing and sometimes doesn't see the relationships between many changes that are in fact related (e.g. Magelight and stealth for all classes and Cloak for NBs).

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

I think Elton John released a song that fits the NB whines. (So sad)

As for my 5 cent, you have to cast magelight to reveal hidden characters, so how it is supposed to help not being ganked? Sorcs use horses to move from point A to point B...

I can see magelight on my second bar for when some crazy overconfident NB jumps on me from his cloaked stance and then I will just not allow him to hide from my pressure. Now NB won't be able to engage disengage and engage again. Just means that when you jump a Magicka character you will have to fight till one of your drops.

Just IMHO, I'm on xbox, so can't really test it.

But dont you see? This doesnt happen! Heck read the post directly above yours. NBs kill everyone in 1-2 seconds just spamming the same ability. You act like you have time to fight back against NBs. Thats a flat out lie!!!!!111!!! No one can stop the NB!

Putting it on your second bar.. I scoff at you! No one can fight the NB!!111!!!

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Valera Progib wrote: »

I think Elton John released a song that fits the NB whines. (So sad)

As for my 5 cent, you have to cast magelight to reveal hidden characters, so how it is supposed to help not being ganked? Sorcs use horses to move from point A to point B...

I can see magelight on my second bar for when some crazy overconfident NB jumps on me from his cloaked stance and then I will just not allow him to hide from my pressure. Now NB won't be able to engage disengage and engage again. Just means that when you jump a Magicka character you will have to fight till one of your drops.

Just IMHO, I'm on xbox, so can't really test it.

But dont you see? This doesnt happen! Heck read the post directly above yours. NBs kill everyone in 1-2 seconds just spamming the same ability. You act like you have time to fight back against NBs. Thats a flat out lie!!!!!111!!! No one can stop the NB!

Putting it on your second bar.. I scoff at you! No one can fight the NB!!111!!!

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

I'm glad they are finally adding stealth detection back to the base skill and both morphs. I go through a ton of detect pots every night and now I'll be able to free up that cooldown.

This will also be very useful in non vet, where detect pots last about 4 seconds at lower levels and roaming bands of NB cloak without care.

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ranged NB are not affected by nerfs, true.

But Melee NB is affected.

The problem is :

Nbs magicka have for survive : Healing ward.

NBs stamina have for survive : roll dodge, block, better resistances, vigor, rally.

Plus, NBs stamina have a real better burst than the Magicka.

Nerf cloak mean nerf and even kill NB magicka melee, stamina still survive .

Aedaryl wrote: »

Ranged NB are not affected by nerfs, true.

But Melee NB is affected.

The problem is :

Nbs magicka have for survive : Healing ward.

NBs stamina have for survive : roll dodge, block, better resistances, vigor, rally.

Plus, NBs stamina have a real better burst than the Magicka.

Nerf cloak mean nerf and even kill NB magicka melee, stamina still survive .

PlagueMonk wrote: »

joleda4ub17_ESO wrote: »

[edit: I didn't mean to quote that particular statement. Sorry]

This sounds like whining to me. Is the buff overpowered? Maybe. But it's extremely un-fun to be constantly ganked as you try to re-find your group. It's so un-fun that many people leave Cyrodiil to never return, or roll up a Nightblade.

Cloak is a joke. It's makes bad players good. Make cloak's cost have the same mechanic as bolt or dodge roll and remove the damage reduction from Mage Light.

1) The buff IS horribly OPed. In one fell swoop it nullifies our class defining skill AND our initial damage (the one thing that NBs have) beyond that we don't have great sustain like Sorc. Now if Zenimax had done this will buffing our other DPS skills, THEN I could maybe understand but....they didn't. (Oh and the skill also buffs your mag abilities? /rolls eyes)

- What I want to know is, where is the general skill from the fighters guild that gives me a shield breaker skill or a healing nullifier. Until that happens an NBs can totally negate other classes skills, this is an unfair buff.

2) It's also extremely un-fun to attack a Sorc only to have them totally ignore our attacks due to magelight/shieldstacking and then streak/blast our asses into oblivion. The only chance we have against a Sorc is to surprise them but OH, you want that taken away.

3) Cloak is not a joke that makes bad players good.........it simply shows which players are very poor at countering it. If you know what you are doing cloak is EXTREMELY easy to counter. So all they are doing is giving bad players a crutch so they don't have to work to counter a NB who needs freakin' skill to use cloak effectively.

Therium104 wrote: »

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

Alright, I changed the title of this post. The more I think about it, Magelight (in its current PTS form) is going to make some builds, especially Magicka Sorcerer, OP in PVP .

I would say all Magicka builds will use the Radiant Magelight morph due to its passives for just being slotted (and likely many stam builds for empower and gank protection):

1) Give 10% spell crit just for being slotted
2) Gives 56% damage reduction from stealth attacks for being slotted
3)Adds 2% Max Mag and Mag Regen for being slotted
4)Gives 12 meters of Stealth Detection when activated
5)Grants Empower when activated

A Magicka Sorcerer on top of this will have shields stacked on top of the 56% stealth damage resistance, CP to negate physical damage, and an easy empower button when they proc a C-Frag or now un-reflectable meteor

@ZOS_GinaBruno I think this may need to be looked into. At least when a player needed entropy on their bar they had to give up a slot for the empower buff. Now it will be an absolute no-brainer to have Radiant Magelight on your bar at all times, especially now that their is no max magicka penalty. ALL magicka builds will run this, and a good majority of Stam builds just for the gank protection and empower buff.

I can't think of any ability in the game that gets close to how much you gain from slotting a single ability.

Yea man. Before this patch NB could go stealth and beat their head againist the keyboard to use two abilities and kill everything. I know it must be upsetting that you cannot no skill other players. It is either this or a direct nerf to damage of your abilities. Choose. Lol

Xeniph wrote: »

Therium104 wrote: »

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

Alright, I changed the title of this post. The more I think about it, Magelight (in its current PTS form) is going to make some builds, especially Magicka Sorcerer, OP in PVP .

I would say all Magicka builds will use the Radiant Magelight morph due to its passives for just being slotted (and likely many stam builds for empower and gank protection):

1) Give 10% spell crit just for being slotted
2) Gives 56% damage reduction from stealth attacks for being slotted
3)Adds 2% Max Mag and Mag Regen for being slotted
4)Gives 12 meters of Stealth Detection when activated
5)Grants Empower when activated

A Magicka Sorcerer on top of this will have shields stacked on top of the 56% stealth damage resistance, CP to negate physical damage, and an easy empower button when they proc a C-Frag or now un-reflectable meteor

@ZOS_GinaBruno I think this may need to be looked into. At least when a player needed entropy on their bar they had to give up a slot for the empower buff. Now it will be an absolute no-brainer to have Radiant Magelight on your bar at all times, especially now that their is no max magicka penalty. ALL magicka builds will run this, and a good majority of Stam builds just for the gank protection and empower buff.

I can't think of any ability in the game that gets close to how much you gain from slotting a single ability.

Yea man. Before this patch NB could go stealth and beat their head againist the keyboard to use two abilities and kill everything. I know it must be upsetting that you cannot no skill other players. It is either this or a direct nerf to damage of your abilities. Choose. Lol

Lets be honest here, the same scrubs that die to a gank on live currently. Will continue to do so after this update. People will adjust builds and playstyles and then we will be back to where we were.

Prime example- 1.7 "I thought they took the ability to one shot away!!!"

Personally though, I'd rather stick with the devil I know

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

MrTarkanian48 wrote: »

Imagine if they changed Expert Hunter to:

1) When slotted gives 10% weapon crit just (already part of the ability)
then added
2)When slotted gives 56% damage reduction from initial hit when attacked
3)Adds 2% Max Stam and 2% Stam Regen
4)When activated, attacks on enemies within 12 meters ignore damage shields for 5 seconds
5)When activated grants empower

Would people think this was OP? Or would people think this is a reasonable counter to shields?

Every stamina build would run this and so would a good amount of Magicka builds.

I am not saying cloak doesn't need changes (maybe add a cost increase when spammed). And yes, camo hunter needs to be fixed (people have asked for this for a long time, including me). But just making these changes would balance things instead of eliminating stealth from the game.

Or make one morph of magelight provide damage reduction and increased detect, but only give crit and empower to the other morph which doesnt have a 56% damage reduction and stun immunity from stealth. Make it so it wouldn't be such an obvious choice that every Magicka build will run in PVP..

You keep comparing the new inner light to other abilities.... and this latest version is worse than the last. It'd be like me saying "Imagine if they changed cloak to [insert innerlight abilites with cloak's effects] it's not exactly a valid comparison.

As it's been stated here, a lot of people are over-reacting, ambush and lotus fan have a 22m range! at best radiant magelight is going to give us 12, so, you'll still have 10m worth of room to attack from stealth. It just means now you wont be able to immediately cloak RIGHT after the initial attack to do it again. This is even assuming the person you're attacking even has radiant cast. It'd be just as easy to move your gank spot just a bit further back from the keep, where a person would think it's safe enough not to warrant a re-cast. Who's stopping while on horseback to recast it? hardly anyone... and that's when you get them. The rest of the bonuses afforded by magelight were pretty much already part of the ability. Now it's just an empower proc with a useful cloak check.

Do you remember when us Sorcs would burst damage, shield up, burst damage, streak away, regain resource and repeat? wasn't that annoying? that's literally what the NBs were doing and instead of nerfing your ability by adding an additional cost per cast (which wouldnt have worked, it'd be like adding additional cost to cast hardened ward) they just made one of the counters more appealing so more people would slot it.

Here's where you're wrong (at least according to the tooltip).

"The Radiant Magelight morph will continue to prevent you from being stunned by stealth attacks, and will reduce damage from stealth attacks while slotted as a morph effect. Activating it also increases the radius of the activated reveal to 12 meters, and reduces the cost."

What part of this says anything about range of attacks? While slotted means it does not have to be activated for the affect. This will be in affect as long as it is on your bar whether you are on foot or on your horse. This is 56% damage resistance and stun immunity from ANY stealth attack, whether its a Snipe/Ambush from 28 meters, or Surprise attack from 1 meter.