Stamina users, prepare for changes

Strider_Roshin · January 2016

From the way things are sounding, all magic/light armored builds (especially magicka sorcerers) are about to become way more powerful than stamina builds. The reason why I say this?

From what I've been reading in the champion system thread, what's most likely going to happen is that there's going to be a resist physical damage passive, and they're going to combine Thaumaturge and Elemental Expert into a single passive. Why do I think this is going to be a horrible idea? Because the way light armor is designed. Currently wearing all light gives you a very strong resistance to magic/elemental damage; if they come out with a physical damage passive, it would be a no-brainer to dump all of your points into the resist physical damage passive. This will give magicka users incredible damage mitigation against all forms of damage on top of their damage shields (why even wear heavy armor at that point?). The only way I could justify a physical damage resistance CP passive is if light armor had the lowest physical AND spell resistance. This way it forces people wearing light armor to decide if they want to be resistant to physical or magic/elemental attacks.

Now the reason why I mentioned "especially sorcerers" earlier is because currently sorcerers have to pick and choice between elemental expert (overload damage) and thaumaturge (crystal frags, curse, mines, etc.). If they combine the two into one then sorcerers get it all with one passive. What about stamina DKs that have to balance between elemental expert and mighty? What about bow users that have to balance between thaumaturge and mighty? Or heck any stamina user that wants to increase the strength of their ultimates? Since the grand majority scale off of thaumaturge. So what class is this really benefiting? Hmm?

Stamina users, get ready to get screwed.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2016

Just like magicka users were screwed when everyone was wearing full nirn and cranking their physical damage and magic resist up?

So is this game doomed to just flip flop between magicka and stamina dominance for ever?

bimbo · January 2016

oh yeahhhhhhhhhhhh

I have both, so idc

Decayed_Inside · January 2016

This game has no hope

Wollust · January 2016

When did they state they are going to combine the CP stars? I know they said they want to avoid people being forced to use multiple stars for their abilities, but I imagined they would just change the affected abilities.

Tryxus · January 2016

Actually, there is still hope

There is a Great Class Overhaul coming up (Update 9?) that's (supposed to) balance the classes, so maybe the devs are going to make class changes based on the new Champion Point system.

Jusey1 · January 2016

Eh. This is why I don't do PvP too much. At least not yet.

As far as PvE, I'm dominating everything except for the guards (obviously).

Strider_Roshin · January 2016

Wollust wrote: »

When did they state they are going to combine the CP stars? I know they said they want to avoid people being forced to use multiple stars for their abilities, but I imagined they would just change the affected abilities.

"No longer requiring players to invest in multiple different stars if their build does more than 1 type of damage"

A bullet point Wrobel mentioned.

MaxwellC · January 2016

If that's the case all they really need to do is either increase the cost of shields sorc use or reduce the effectiveness it is in PvP. If I have to keep blowing through a shield that they put up while bolt escaping away then it'll just get out of hand. Simply tired as a Stam DK dealing with that kind of situation especially when I don't even use my class abilities for damage since they all suck especially DoTs.

Decayed_Inside · January 2016

If you think they can balance classes you're insane. They couldn't up to now even with all the halved damage halved healing (lol) and dozen updates. All they will do is create havoc. I mean do you guys think they all of a sudden have some magic wand that will fix anything? They will do what they always do and mess it up worse.

Sharee · January 2016

What makes you think they will combine just elemental expert with thaumaturge and nothing else? As far as i know, they said they don't want people to have to invest into multiple damage stars if they deal multiple damage types, but that's it. They never mentioned any specifics.

Strider_Roshin · January 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

If that's the case all they really need to do is either increase the cost of shields sorc use or reduce the effectiveness it is in PvP. If I have to keep blowing through a shield that they put up while bolt escaping away then it'll just get out of hand. Simply tired as a Stam DK dealing with that kind of situation especially when I don't even use my class abilities for damage since they all suck especially DoTs.

Unstable Flame is actually pretty awesome. I use it all the time with my DK

Infinite12 · January 2016

Tryxus wrote: »

so maybe the devs are going to make class changes based on the new Champion Point system.

Lol. Don't count on it. If there's something for them to screw up...they'll screw it up.

Strider_Roshin · January 2016

Sharee wrote: »

What makes you think they will combine just elemental expert with thaumaturge and nothing else? As far as i know, they said they don't want people to have to invest into multiple damage stars if they deal multiple damage types, but that's it. They never mentioned any specifics.

Because poison damage now scales off of spell damage or weapon damage. If they combined physical and poison damage, it would make that change pointless.

Strider_Roshin · January 2016

Tryxus wrote: »

Actually, there is still hope

There is a Great Class Overhaul coming up (Update 9?) that's (supposed to) balance the classes, so maybe the devs are going to make class changes based on the new Champion Point system.

Considering their past behavior when it comes to balance, I'm not exactly holding my breath.

JD2013 · January 2016

Class balance in an MMO is a myth.

I still go on the World of Warcraft forums occasionally, and even ten years in there's people calling for class balances.

Wollust · January 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

When did they state they are going to combine the CP stars? I know they said they want to avoid people being forced to use multiple stars for their abilities, but I imagined they would just change the affected abilities.

"No longer requiring players to invest in multiple different stars if their build does more than 1 type of damage"

A bullet point Wrobel mentioned.

Doesn't sound like that means stars are going to be combined, but rather there will be changes to the abilities themselves. I wouldn't start to panic (yet

). We will see if they come up with a fancy solution.

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2016

What an elegant title...

Infinite12 · January 2016

JD2013 wrote: »

Class balance in an MMO is a myth.

I still go on the World of Warcraft forums occasionally, and even ten years in there's people calling for class balances.

I dont think it's a myth, what they need to do (well there's a couple of things) is stop treating nerfs as a complete destruction of a class (see dragonknight as an example) or, instead of nerfing the bee-Jesus out of everything, maybe buff other classes. That being said, I do think sorcs need a nerf of some sort. I've tried different strategies, different skills, but still have trouble with any sorc who is reasonable intelligent. The shield stacking is the biggest problem. Shields need to be critable.

JD2013 · January 2016

Infinite12 wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Class balance in an MMO is a myth.

I still go on the World of Warcraft forums occasionally, and even ten years in there's people calling for class balances.

I dont think it's a myth, what they need to do (well there's a couple of things) is stop treating nerfs as a complete destruction of a class (see dragonknight as an example) or, instead of nerfing the bee-Jesus out of everything, maybe buff other classes. That being said, I do think sorcs need a nerf of some sort. I've tried different strategies, different skills, but still have trouble with any sorc who is reasonable intelligent. The shield stacking is the biggest problem. Shields need to be critable.

I do agree that when they nerf things, they need to stop nerfing it to the ground.

They need to take a long, hard look at each class, tweak numbers, test them out HARD. Not just a couple of months testing, real in depth testing.

Autolycus · January 2016

I don't really have a problem with splitting my points between 2 stars as it is...

Wasn't that kind of the whole point? One day, when we all grow up and get lots and lots of CP, we can be big bad champions too.

Sharee · January 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

What makes you think they will combine just elemental expert with thaumaturge and nothing else? As far as i know, they said they don't want people to have to invest into multiple damage stars if they deal multiple damage types, but that's it. They never mentioned any specifics.

Because poison damage now scales off of spell damage or weapon damage. If they combined physical and poison damage, it would make that change pointless.

I don't follow your logic. What damage poison scales off of is completely independent from the champion system. Champ system boosts skills based on what damage type they deal, not based on what they scale off of.

How i understand their intent, there will be just one damage star for all types of damage. Otherwise DK's would still have to invest into multiple damage stars just to boost a single skill (burning talons).

OdinForge · January 2016

ZOS is a total [snip]-up, I'm prepared for anything with them.

I have two nightblades now and I have more fun on my magblade than I do my stamblade. Despite the fact that my stamblade has a lot more going for it in the current meta, probably because stamina was always a second thought and the changes for it have been glue and paperclips.

My magblade is ready though to become a god, until For Honor comes out and my toons go to sleep forever.

Strider_Roshin · January 2016

Sharee wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

What makes you think they will combine just elemental expert with thaumaturge and nothing else? As far as i know, they said they don't want people to have to invest into multiple damage stars if they deal multiple damage types, but that's it. They never mentioned any specifics.

Because poison damage now scales off of spell damage or weapon damage. If they combined physical and poison damage, it would make that change pointless.

I don't follow your logic. What damage poison scales off of is completely independent from the champion system.

How i understand their intent, there will be just one damage star for all types of damage. Otherwise DK's would still have to invest into multiple damage stars just to boost a single skill (burning talons).

So one stat to boost all damage, and one stat to reduce all damage. Well that's one way to dumb down the game, and not in a good way.

Unsent.Soul · January 2016

Decayed_Inside wrote: »

If you think they can balance classes you're insane. They couldn't up to now even with all the halved damage halved healing (lol) and dozen updates. All they will do is create havoc. I mean do you guys think they all of a sudden have some magic wand that will fix anything? They will do what they always do and mess it up worse.

Why are you even here then?

Jura23 · January 2016

I can't imagine how I will play on my stamina Templar which is already the weakest setup in the game when everybody will be running around with 24% physical reduction. I might as well not even bother try to kill ppl lol.

Sharee · January 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

What makes you think they will combine just elemental expert with thaumaturge and nothing else? As far as i know, they said they don't want people to have to invest into multiple damage stars if they deal multiple damage types, but that's it. They never mentioned any specifics.

Because poison damage now scales off of spell damage or weapon damage. If they combined physical and poison damage, it would make that change pointless.

I don't follow your logic. What damage poison scales off of is completely independent from the champion system.

How i understand their intent, there will be just one damage star for all types of damage. Otherwise DK's would still have to invest into multiple damage stars just to boost a single skill (burning talons).

So one stat to boost all damage, and one stat to reduce all damage. Well that's one way to dumb down the game, and not in a good way.

How else would you solve the imbalance between builds that only deal one damage type and builds that deal multiple damage types? As long as you have to boost each damage type individually, the latter is clearly at a disadvantage, one that is sometimes built right into the class and thus unavoidable (like class skills doing multiple damage types at once)

timidobserver · January 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

When did they state they are going to combine the CP stars? I know they said they want to avoid people being forced to use multiple stars for their abilities, but I imagined they would just change the affected abilities.

"No longer requiring players to invest in multiple different stars if their build does more than 1 type of damage"

A bullet point Wrobel mentioned.

Most likely they are going to nerf the overall effectiveness of the passive. So, it will now provide magical and elemental damage with one star,however the max damage % will probably cap at 10-15% instead of 25%.

Acrolas · January 2016

I think the bigger issue is referring to anything in this game as "builds." I'm not building anything. I'm putting two mitigation and two boost abilities on my bar and then spamming one attack button preferably while hidden. That's all I have room for.

Also remember that Wrobel prefaced that little list with, "suggestions we really like."
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2542369

But let's be honest. Until the game introduces some sort of responsive combat combo mechanism that embraces variety and creativity in its design, PVE is going to be all about spamming and PVP will be all about the best hidden attack.

I think hiding, more than a magicka/stamina divide, is what ruins combat. I mean, Lord of the Rings would be absolutely stupid if the Battle of the Pelennor Fields was just Mordor's army in crouching position until they could gank an elf or something. It's illogical. Maybe all the lag in Cyrodiil is because there are tens of thousands of hidden NPCs not fighting each other.

dday3six · January 2016

Though ZOS doesn't have the greatest track record. I think it's alarmist to utterly freak out just yet. We don't know everything planned, and there is still a PTS phase as well.

As I understand it, the damage increase consolidation will be applied to everyone, not just singling out Magic and Elemental damage. IIRC DK with Mighty and Elemental Expert were also mentioned by users before Wrobel gave us a statements on a few key points of interest he planned to take back and discuss. They weren't even guaranteed to happen, just good points raised that they wanted to take back to be discussed.

While it's important to raise concerns. I think we should wait until the PTS is lanched to preclaim the sky is falling. At least then we'll be able to see the whole sky.

Alucardo · January 2016

Autolycus wrote: »

I don't really have a problem with splitting my points between 2 stars as it is...

I think it's a good thing. You should have to choose your CPs wisely. Not just dump them into a single star and profit. It's a great way to separate builds and really customise them.
This game is turning into a 1 key mashing, 1 champion point dumping game. Just throw all your eggs into one basket and you're good to go. They're truly dumbing things down too much and it sucks.

Also, the physical resistance thing is going to suck while healing ward, and other shields are strong as they are. I hate fighting magicka builds as it is. Should I just delete my archer now as well, or do they intend on buffing that?