What gear are magicka dks using for solo/small group pvp.

eliisra · October 2015

zornyan wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Well my templars running just a touch under 4k spell power, with 37k magicka, 1k regen and he's an imperial. Seems to be very effective 1v1 or 1v2 in the sewers .

1k regen doesn't sound very survivable at all for small scale stuff. You must run into some pretty bad playaz down in the sewers or anyone who know's what he's doing would drive you out of resources very quickly.

Well with my magicka pool (which still has a couple buffs to go so should be around 41k) I never really run out of resources. At my current level, I can spam puncturing sweep at least 25+ times. As I use channeled focus which is another 150 magicka every 0.5 secs. And I've got cost reduction cp's.

Anyway my point is, I haven't had to go below 50% magicka in a fight yet, as generally they are dead very quockly, 90% of the sewers is full of stupid ass nightblades, they are extremely predictable, and also die very quickly when on the defense, hell I saw one guy just sit there and spam wrecking blow as he didn't have a clue what else to do, about 3-4 casts of any spell will kill someone (with a light-heavy weavy thrown in)

Think my dawns wrath is critting for 12k atm, so even just 2 quick casts and that's most people dead.

You must play on consoles, there's no other explanation. I have over 2k recovery + 480 more from Channelled Focus and tons of cost reduction, I still run out of magicka completely unless I eat a pot every 40 second.

For sure, if I only spammed Puncturing Sweep(one of the cheapest abilities in the game) without having to constantly defend myself, heal up, Purge, shield and gap close, my magicka pool wouldn't drop below 99%. It's just, I highly doubt spamming that in PvP only works anywhere outside of slaughtering sewer newbieblades on console.

But fair enough if you're getting good results with your build, keep doing it, until rest if the population catches up and starts to not suck so much. Than you will need more than 1k recovery.

zornyan · October 2015

eliisra wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Well my templars running just a touch under 4k spell power, with 37k magicka, 1k regen and he's an imperial. Seems to be very effective 1v1 or 1v2 in the sewers .

1k regen doesn't sound very survivable at all for small scale stuff. You must run into some pretty bad playaz down in the sewers or anyone who know's what he's doing would drive you out of resources very quickly.

Well with my magicka pool (which still has a couple buffs to go so should be around 41k) I never really run out of resources. At my current level, I can spam puncturing sweep at least 25+ times. As I use channeled focus which is another 150 magicka every 0.5 secs. And I've got cost reduction cp's.

Anyway my point is, I haven't had to go below 50% magicka in a fight yet, as generally they are dead very quockly, 90% of the sewers is full of stupid ass nightblades, they are extremely predictable, and also die very quickly when on the defense, hell I saw one guy just sit there and spam wrecking blow as he didn't have a clue what else to do, about 3-4 casts of any spell will kill someone (with a light-heavy weavy thrown in)

Think my dawns wrath is critting for 12k atm, so even just 2 quick casts and that's most people dead.

You must play on consoles, there's no other explanation. I have over 2k recovery + 480 more from Channelled Focus and tons of cost reduction, I still run out of magicka completely unless I eat a pot every 40 second.

For sure, if I only spammed Puncturing Sweep(one of the cheapest abilities in the game) without having to constantly defend myself, heal up, Purge, shield and gap close, my magicka pool wouldn't drop below 99%. It's just, I highly doubt spamming that in PvP only works anywhere outside of slaughtering sewer newbieblades on console.

But fair enough if you're getting good results with your build, keep doing it, until rest if the population catches up and starts to not suck so much. Than you will need more than 1k recovery.

Yes I'm on console, I don't just spam puncturing sweeps, I mainly just use it as my main dps skill, my rotation is normally

Structured entropy, dark flare, vampires kiss, toppling charge, puncturing sweeps X2 whilst their down/breaking free. For 95% of players this leaves them at around 40% hp, then it's radiant destruction time.

I do pve vet dungeons as wepl, and ice never had any sustain issues as either a dps or a healer, i can happily solo craglorn delves since vr8, and I can solo all of the sewers and bosses without too much of a fuss.

Stoney_McGeee · October 2015

how did templars come up in a DK magic post? lol

and my magic recovery is pretty low right now, but with 2,970spell damage, and 37k magic peoples health tend to drop before i get low on magic..

i feel that majority of the players don't know what they're doing and they're predictable, and most DK are stam these days..

but what i often use is

Entropy->> charge --> talon->> banner->> ash cloud -> talon -> inhale ->> unstable ->> whip .. can smash groups with that ... especially popping that reflective scales in the middle and most players don't know what the *** is going on.

1Grumpy_dunmer1 · October 2015

Stoney_McGeee wrote: »

how did templars come up in a DK magic post? lol

and my magic recovery is pretty low right now, but with 2,970spell damage, and 37k magic peoples health tend to drop before i get low on magic..

i feel that majority of the players don't know what they're doing and they're predictable, and most DK are stam these days..

but what i often use is

Entropy->> charge --> talon->> banner->> ash cloud -> talon -> inhale ->> unstable ->> whip .. can smash groups with that ... especially popping that reflective scales in the middle and most players don't know what the *** is going on.

How are you pulling almost 3 k spell damage? I've been at 2250 with s+b but that's the highest I've seen. Dual wield or 2h?

Stoney_McGeee · October 2015

1Grumpy_dunmer1 wrote: »

Stoney_McGeee wrote: »

how did templars come up in a DK magic post? lol

and my magic recovery is pretty low right now, but with 2,970spell damage, and 37k magic peoples health tend to drop before i get low on magic..

i feel that majority of the players don't know what they're doing and they're predictable, and most DK are stam these days..

but what i often use is

Entropy->> charge --> talon->> banner->> ash cloud -> talon -> inhale ->> unstable ->> whip .. can smash groups with that ... especially popping that reflective scales in the middle and most players don't know what the *** is going on.

How are you pulling almost 3 k spell damage? I've been at 2250 with s+b but that's the highest I've seen. Dual wield or 2h?

with entropy, my spell damage goes up to 3.6k..

and I'm 2handing right now just for the gab closer, i used to do 1hand and sheid for the invasion because chains is unreliable. but i didn't like the -200 spell damage bonus from not using DW, but i switched from DW to 2H because my spell damage goes up by 50, and i get a gab closer..

I'm literally at 2,970 spell damage with no buffs. 5light, 1med,1 heavy.. and i have a pretty good survivability surprisingly. just yesterday, i had a big zerg ran right threw me, and i stayed alive and picked off the stragglers..

Vanzen · October 2015

Stoney_McGeee wrote: »

1Grumpy_dunmer1 wrote: »

Stoney_McGeee wrote: »

how did templars come up in a DK magic post? lol

and my magic recovery is pretty low right now, but with 2,970spell damage, and 37k magic peoples health tend to drop before i get low on magic..

i feel that majority of the players don't know what they're doing and they're predictable, and most DK are stam these days..

but what i often use is

Entropy->> charge --> talon->> banner->> ash cloud -> talon -> inhale ->> unstable ->> whip .. can smash groups with that ... especially popping that reflective scales in the middle and most players don't know what the *** is going on.

How are you pulling almost 3 k spell damage? I've been at 2250 with s+b but that's the highest I've seen. Dual wield or 2h?

with entropy, my spell damage goes up to 3.6k..

and I'm 2handing right now just for the gab closer, i used to do 1hand and sheid for the invasion because chains is unreliable. but i didn't like the -200 spell damage bonus from not using DW, but i switched from DW to 2H because my spell damage goes up by 50, and i get a gab closer..

I'm literally at 2,970 spell damage with no buffs. 5light, 1med,1 heavy.. and i have a pretty good survivability surprisingly. just yesterday, i had a big zerg ran right threw me, and i stayed alive and picked off the stragglers..

K .... But would you be so kind as to explain the gear you use to get 3k spell dam unbuffed and the mag regen associated with ? Thanks in advance.

Minno · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Jjitsuboy98 wrote: »

Does anyone know if flame lash does significant damage out of devouring swarm or if that even works? I know wrecking blow and other stamina skills do a lot of damage and its a good way of dealing some dps. Also what about Magicka Detonation paired up with dragon leap after a fossilize for an execute for some burst?

Devouring Swarm has no effect on the damage of skills. What you must be getting confused about is NBs and Clouding Swarm. They have a passive that increases their spell/wpn damage when invisible and they benefit from the invisibility portion of Clouding Swarm.

Proxy Det is nice to time burst. The problem you have with Dragon Leap is that it's physical damage. That damage still scales with your max magicka + spell damage if you are a magicka build, but it does not scale with Thaumaturge or Elemental Expert CP passives. It scales with Mighty instead, which increases physical damage.

If you are using Petrify before ult drop it's almost a guaranteed hit, so it's a very good combo indeed. A lot of people prefer to use Meteor for a variety of reasons.

Petrify is a stun and a root afterwards. Meteor does more damage than Dragon Leap if your Elemental Expert is maxed, plus it has a very strong DoT which can double the total damage. The combination with Petrify means they will take plenty of DoT damage as they are stunned and then rooted on the spot.

Timing a Proxy Det with a Meteor and some Flame Lashes is indeed mighty burst. In the past I saw some people using heavy firestaff attack instead of Lash in that combo, because with Molten Armaments it would also work like an execute. Though destro is a bit less viable atm for solo or small scale DKs. You kinda need your heavy and S&B to mitigate plenty of damage.

Can crit heavily effect dragon leap and other DK spells?

Not sure what you mean by that.

Crit is by default 50% extra damage (or heals) when it occurs. Racial, class and CP passives can improve on that damage.

However it's worth noting that your crit chance is reduced to 0 when your target is blocking or when he's protected by a ward/bubble.

It's generally (with some exceptions) not considered optimal to stack high crit chance for magicka builds in PvP, especially for DKs as they get no secondary benefit from the crits.

It was a dumb question mutated by reading about dragon leap scaling off physical dmg.

I guess I wanted to say since dragon leap scales off physical dmg, is it weapon crit or spell crit chance that adds to its dmg?

Stoney_McGeee · October 2015

Vanzen wrote: »

Stoney_McGeee wrote: »

1Grumpy_dunmer1 wrote: »

Stoney_McGeee wrote: »

how did templars come up in a DK magic post? lol

and my magic recovery is pretty low right now, but with 2,970spell damage, and 37k magic peoples health tend to drop before i get low on magic..

i feel that majority of the players don't know what they're doing and they're predictable, and most DK are stam these days..

but what i often use is

Entropy->> charge --> talon->> banner->> ash cloud -> talon -> inhale ->> unstable ->> whip .. can smash groups with that ... especially popping that reflective scales in the middle and most players don't know what the *** is going on.

How are you pulling almost 3 k spell damage? I've been at 2250 with s+b but that's the highest I've seen. Dual wield or 2h?

with entropy, my spell damage goes up to 3.6k..

and I'm 2handing right now just for the gab closer, i used to do 1hand and sheid for the invasion because chains is unreliable. but i didn't like the -200 spell damage bonus from not using DW, but i switched from DW to 2H because my spell damage goes up by 50, and i get a gab closer..

I'm literally at 2,970 spell damage with no buffs. 5light, 1med,1 heavy.. and i have a pretty good survivability surprisingly. just yesterday, i had a big zerg ran right threw me, and i stayed alive and picked off the stragglers..

K .... But would you be so kind as to explain the gear you use to get 3k spell dam unbuffed and the mag regen associated with ? Thanks in advance.

Well I use restro on my 2nd bar, and since I do a lot of pvp and guild leader of my guild, I get a lot of potions.. Which I do use somewhat "a lot" I mostly rely on my spells I use to give me back my resources .

My gear I use I posted up top .

5 hope, 1 monster , 3 will power and 3 torgat pact.

Maulkin · October 2015

Minno wrote: »

I guess I wanted to say since dragon leap scales off physical dmg, is it weapon crit or spell crit chance that adds to its dmg?

I see.

Ultimate damage scales with Weapon Damage + Max Stamina or Spell Damage + Max Magicka. Basically the game passes both sets of stats through the ultimate formula and whatever produces highest damage output is what's being used by the game.

If it uses SD + MM then the crit chance used will be spell crit. If it uses WD+MS the the crit chance used will be weapon crit.

Ishammael · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

I guess I wanted to say since dragon leap scales off physical dmg, is it weapon crit or spell crit chance that adds to its dmg?

I see.

Ultimate damage scales with Weapon Damage + Max Stamina or Spell Damage + Max Magicka. Basically the game passes both sets of stats through the ultimate formula and whatever produces highest damage output is what's being used by the game.

If it uses SD + MM then the crit chance used will be spell crit. If it uses WD+MS the the crit chance used will be weapon crit.

Which is totally frustrating because dragon leap is the only ultimate in the entire game that scales with the mighty CP.

Maulkin · October 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

I guess I wanted to say since dragon leap scales off physical dmg, is it weapon crit or spell crit chance that adds to its dmg?

I see.

Ultimate damage scales with Weapon Damage + Max Stamina or Spell Damage + Max Magicka. Basically the game passes both sets of stats through the ultimate formula and whatever produces highest damage output is what's being used by the game.

If it uses SD + MM then the crit chance used will be spell crit. If it uses WD+MS the the crit chance used will be weapon crit.

Which is totally frustrating because dragon leap is the only ultimate in the entire game that scales with the mighty CP.

Why is it frustrating? As a stamina DK it will use wpn crit which is what I want and as a magicka it will use spell crit which is also great. I don't see a problem.

As for having to use more than one CP passive to boost all your damage, well that applies to others too.

On my Sorc for example half my DPS is boosted by Elemental Expert (Crushing Shock, Light Attacks, Mage's Fury, Storm Atro, Liquid Lightning) and the other half is boosted by Thaumaturge (Crystal Frags, Velocious Curse, Dawnbreaker). So I have to invest in both.

Similar on the DK, if I want to get the best out of Dragon Leap or Obsidian shard I need to invest into Mighty. For everything else there's Elemental Expert.

In fact for PvE you just use Banner on static bosses and Meteor on mobile ones and then all your damage scales with Elemental Expert. Not many classes have that luxury.

KostasDragonborn · October 2015

So much great input and lessons learned here in this thread.

I've been running v16 5x Kagrenac 1 Kena Shoulder 2x Torug 3x Willpower Jewelry

That base Spell Damage is around 2600 with 2 Hander Sword on your attack bar for PVP. So using Torug's Pact Resto and 2H. Also running Vamp for ulti Devouring Swarm and the regen.

Magicka DK is hardmode since the new patch.

On my attack bar - Stampede (2H ability = gap closer and snare), Flame Lash, Burning Embers or Engulfing Flames, Talons / Fossilize, and Inner Light

Resto bar - Proximity Detonation, Hardened Armor, Blessing of Restoration, Light armor shield or additional stun to get Fossilize and Talons (especially for PVP), Inner Light.

Ulti for both bars Devouring Swarm.

In a good small group we can wipe a 10 man group or even a full raid in sewers if they are not PVP'ers. Solo 1v1 it's really hardmode against a skilled player. I have had numerous 1v1's against templars where we fought for 15 minutes until someone makes a mistake or I can just get the timing right for Bat Swarm, Detonation, and Flame lash to happen all at the same time for execute.

edit: and using tri pots and tri stat food for more stam to CC or block and more max magicka for more spell damage. 2H wont give you more spell damage than dual wield but more damage on your magicka skill on the tool tip so more outgoing damage than dual wield. alternatives for Kagrenac are Scathing Mage, Spell Power Surge, Willows Path or the upcoming Julianus sets.
On jewelry running 1 magicka regen 2 spell damage - Mundus is Atronach.
Tooltip Flamelash hits for 6400 and Proximity Det for about 10-11k, Bat Swar, 3k every second.
Super low Spell and Phys resist though so you have to keep your shields up. Switching to your resto to re-up shields and Proximity det takes time so throw a fossilize on them before you do it then flame lash light attack weave with Prox Det and Bat Swarm to execute. Lot's of work to get an execute on skilled player giving you a hard time.

Joy_Division · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

I guess I wanted to say since dragon leap scales off physical dmg, is it weapon crit or spell crit chance that adds to its dmg?

I see.

Ultimate damage scales with Weapon Damage + Max Stamina or Spell Damage + Max Magicka. Basically the game passes both sets of stats through the ultimate formula and whatever produces highest damage output is what's being used by the game.

If it uses SD + MM then the crit chance used will be spell crit. If it uses WD+MS the the crit chance used will be weapon crit.

Which is totally frustrating because dragon leap is the only ultimate in the entire game that scales with the mighty CP.

Why is it frustrating? As a stamina DK it will use wpn crit which is what I want and as a magicka it will use spell crit which is also great. I don't see a problem.

As for having to use more than one CP passive to boost all your damage, well that applies to others too.

On my Sorc for example half my DPS is boosted by Elemental Expert (Crushing Shock, Light Attacks, Mage's Fury, Storm Atro, Liquid Lightning) and the other half is boosted by Thaumaturge (Crystal Frags, Velocious Curse, Dawnbreaker). So I have to invest in both.

Similar on the DK, if I want to get the best out of Dragon Leap or Obsidian shard I need to invest into Mighty. For everything else there's Elemental Expert.

In fact for PvE you just use Banner on static bosses and Meteor on mobile ones and then all your damage scales with Elemental Expert. Not many classes have that luxury.

It's frustrating because a stam DK can actually use that ultimate to burst down and get a kill whereas with a magicka DK it is just meh.

Maulkin · October 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

I guess I wanted to say since dragon leap scales off physical dmg, is it weapon crit or spell crit chance that adds to its dmg?

I see.

Ultimate damage scales with Weapon Damage + Max Stamina or Spell Damage + Max Magicka. Basically the game passes both sets of stats through the ultimate formula and whatever produces highest damage output is what's being used by the game.

If it uses SD + MM then the crit chance used will be spell crit. If it uses WD+MS the the crit chance used will be weapon crit.

Which is totally frustrating because dragon leap is the only ultimate in the entire game that scales with the mighty CP.

Why is it frustrating? As a stamina DK it will use wpn crit which is what I want and as a magicka it will use spell crit which is also great. I don't see a problem.

As for having to use more than one CP passive to boost all your damage, well that applies to others too.

On my Sorc for example half my DPS is boosted by Elemental Expert (Crushing Shock, Light Attacks, Mage's Fury, Storm Atro, Liquid Lightning) and the other half is boosted by Thaumaturge (Crystal Frags, Velocious Curse, Dawnbreaker). So I have to invest in both.

Similar on the DK, if I want to get the best out of Dragon Leap or Obsidian shard I need to invest into Mighty. For everything else there's Elemental Expert.

In fact for PvE you just use Banner on static bosses and Meteor on mobile ones and then all your damage scales with Elemental Expert. Not many classes have that luxury.

It's frustrating because a stam DK can actually use that ultimate to burst down and get a kill whereas with a magicka DK it is just meh.

Yes and no

You see a lot of DKs putting CPs into Thaumaturge (other then Elemental Expert ofc) to increase the damage of:

Proximity Detonation
Batswarm
Dawnbreaker of Smiting

2/3 of those are ultimates. If you decide to replace them with Take Flight + Standard of Might/Meteor, it's probably worth switching from Thaumaturge to Mighty to increase your burst with that.

Since this registers as physical damage it can't get mitigated by CP passives. So you will hit every bit as hard as a stamina build (unless your weapons are nirnhorned instead of sharpened).

Ishammael · October 2015

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

I guess I wanted to say since dragon leap scales off physical dmg, is it weapon crit or spell crit chance that adds to its dmg?

I see.

Ultimate damage scales with Weapon Damage + Max Stamina or Spell Damage + Max Magicka. Basically the game passes both sets of stats through the ultimate formula and whatever produces highest damage output is what's being used by the game.

If it uses SD + MM then the crit chance used will be spell crit. If it uses WD+MS the the crit chance used will be weapon crit.

Which is totally frustrating because dragon leap is the only ultimate in the entire game that scales with the mighty CP.

Why is it frustrating? As a stamina DK it will use wpn crit which is what I want and as a magicka it will use spell crit which is also great. I don't see a problem.

As for having to use more than one CP passive to boost all your damage, well that applies to others too.

On my Sorc for example half my DPS is boosted by Elemental Expert (Crushing Shock, Light Attacks, Mage's Fury, Storm Atro, Liquid Lightning) and the other half is boosted by Thaumaturge (Crystal Frags, Velocious Curse, Dawnbreaker). So I have to invest in both.

Similar on the DK, if I want to get the best out of Dragon Leap or Obsidian shard I need to invest into Mighty. For everything else there's Elemental Expert.

In fact for PvE you just use Banner on static bosses and Meteor on mobile ones and then all your damage scales with Elemental Expert. Not many classes have that luxury.

It's frustrating because a stam DK can actually use that ultimate to burst down and get a kill whereas with a magicka DK it is just meh.

Yes and no

You see a lot of DKs putting CPs into Thaumaturge (other then Elemental Expert ofc) to increase the damage of:
Proximity Detonation

Batswarm

Dawnbreaker of Smiting

2/3 of those are ultimates. If you decide to replace them with Take Flight + Standard of Might/Meteor, it's probably worth switching from Thaumaturge to Mighty to increase your burst with that.

Since this registers as physical damage it can't get mitigated by CP passives. So you will hit every bit as hard as a stamina build (unless your weapons are nirnhorned instead of sharpened).

Of course I have put points in Thaum as an alternative. But If I am stam, the only CP tree I need is Mighty.

Thaum on a Magicka Templar is outrageously awesome. Thaum on a DK is a headache if I don't have 500 CPs or so.

Joy_Division · October 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

I guess I wanted to say since dragon leap scales off physical dmg, is it weapon crit or spell crit chance that adds to its dmg?

I see.

Ultimate damage scales with Weapon Damage + Max Stamina or Spell Damage + Max Magicka. Basically the game passes both sets of stats through the ultimate formula and whatever produces highest damage output is what's being used by the game.

If it uses SD + MM then the crit chance used will be spell crit. If it uses WD+MS the the crit chance used will be weapon crit.

Which is totally frustrating because dragon leap is the only ultimate in the entire game that scales with the mighty CP.

Why is it frustrating? As a stamina DK it will use wpn crit which is what I want and as a magicka it will use spell crit which is also great. I don't see a problem.

As for having to use more than one CP passive to boost all your damage, well that applies to others too.

On my Sorc for example half my DPS is boosted by Elemental Expert (Crushing Shock, Light Attacks, Mage's Fury, Storm Atro, Liquid Lightning) and the other half is boosted by Thaumaturge (Crystal Frags, Velocious Curse, Dawnbreaker). So I have to invest in both.

Similar on the DK, if I want to get the best out of Dragon Leap or Obsidian shard I need to invest into Mighty. For everything else there's Elemental Expert.

In fact for PvE you just use Banner on static bosses and Meteor on mobile ones and then all your damage scales with Elemental Expert. Not many classes have that luxury.

It's frustrating because a stam DK can actually use that ultimate to burst down and get a kill whereas with a magicka DK it is just meh.

Yes and no

You see a lot of DKs putting CPs into Thaumaturge (other then Elemental Expert ofc) to increase the damage of:
Proximity Detonation

Batswarm

Dawnbreaker of Smiting

2/3 of those are ultimates. If you decide to replace them with Take Flight + Standard of Might/Meteor, it's probably worth switching from Thaumaturge to Mighty to increase your burst with that.

Since this registers as physical damage it can't get mitigated by CP passives. So you will hit every bit as hard as a stamina build (unless your weapons are nirnhorned instead of sharpened).

Of course I have put points in Thaum as an alternative. But If I am stam, the only CP tree I need is Mighty.

Thaum on a Magicka Templar is outrageously awesome. Thaum on a DK is a headache if I don't have 500 CPs or so.

Exactly. When the templar looks like an efficient well designed class compared to the one you are running, then your class needs serious reevaluation.

Ishammael · October 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

I guess I wanted to say since dragon leap scales off physical dmg, is it weapon crit or spell crit chance that adds to its dmg?

I see.

Ultimate damage scales with Weapon Damage + Max Stamina or Spell Damage + Max Magicka. Basically the game passes both sets of stats through the ultimate formula and whatever produces highest damage output is what's being used by the game.

If it uses SD + MM then the crit chance used will be spell crit. If it uses WD+MS the the crit chance used will be weapon crit.

Which is totally frustrating because dragon leap is the only ultimate in the entire game that scales with the mighty CP.

Why is it frustrating? As a stamina DK it will use wpn crit which is what I want and as a magicka it will use spell crit which is also great. I don't see a problem.

As for having to use more than one CP passive to boost all your damage, well that applies to others too.

On my Sorc for example half my DPS is boosted by Elemental Expert (Crushing Shock, Light Attacks, Mage's Fury, Storm Atro, Liquid Lightning) and the other half is boosted by Thaumaturge (Crystal Frags, Velocious Curse, Dawnbreaker). So I have to invest in both.

Similar on the DK, if I want to get the best out of Dragon Leap or Obsidian shard I need to invest into Mighty. For everything else there's Elemental Expert.

In fact for PvE you just use Banner on static bosses and Meteor on mobile ones and then all your damage scales with Elemental Expert. Not many classes have that luxury.

It's frustrating because a stam DK can actually use that ultimate to burst down and get a kill whereas with a magicka DK it is just meh.

Yes and no

You see a lot of DKs putting CPs into Thaumaturge (other then Elemental Expert ofc) to increase the damage of:
Proximity Detonation

Batswarm

Dawnbreaker of Smiting

2/3 of those are ultimates. If you decide to replace them with Take Flight + Standard of Might/Meteor, it's probably worth switching from Thaumaturge to Mighty to increase your burst with that.

Since this registers as physical damage it can't get mitigated by CP passives. So you will hit every bit as hard as a stamina build (unless your weapons are nirnhorned instead of sharpened).

Of course I have put points in Thaum as an alternative. But If I am stam, the only CP tree I need is Mighty.

Thaum on a Magicka Templar is outrageously awesome. Thaum on a DK is a headache if I don't have 500 CPs or so.

Exactly. When the templar looks like an efficient well designed class compared to the one you are running, then your class needs serious reevaluation.

I actually re-rolled and leveled a templar during the transition to IC. Magicka templar is really stronk right now. Probably the most we-rounded class atm.

Advantages:
1. Great Healing
2. Good stamina management (repentence)
3. Only one CP required (Thaum)
4. Execute
5. Magicka gap closer
6. Solid range options even w/ melee weapons
7. Solid passives across the board
8. Vampire is nice compliment

Disadvantages
1. Mediocre ults
2. Poor mobility
3. Mediocre CC
4. Mediocre Burst

What's really cool about templar right now is the flexibility. I can spec for magicka AoE burst! (2H/Resto, LA, solar barrage, invis bats, prox det) I can play defensive healer! (HA, Sw/SH) Either case I'm super effective for both group play and small group. And stamina templar is still totally viable considering the strength of stamina skills and armor sets.

Compare this to magicka DK and things start looking ugly.

The more I think about it, the more I believe the only change really needed for Magicka DK is dynamic ultimate.

Joy_Division · October 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

I guess I wanted to say since dragon leap scales off physical dmg, is it weapon crit or spell crit chance that adds to its dmg?

I see.

Ultimate damage scales with Weapon Damage + Max Stamina or Spell Damage + Max Magicka. Basically the game passes both sets of stats through the ultimate formula and whatever produces highest damage output is what's being used by the game.

If it uses SD + MM then the crit chance used will be spell crit. If it uses WD+MS the the crit chance used will be weapon crit.

Which is totally frustrating because dragon leap is the only ultimate in the entire game that scales with the mighty CP.

Why is it frustrating? As a stamina DK it will use wpn crit which is what I want and as a magicka it will use spell crit which is also great. I don't see a problem.

As for having to use more than one CP passive to boost all your damage, well that applies to others too.

On my Sorc for example half my DPS is boosted by Elemental Expert (Crushing Shock, Light Attacks, Mage's Fury, Storm Atro, Liquid Lightning) and the other half is boosted by Thaumaturge (Crystal Frags, Velocious Curse, Dawnbreaker). So I have to invest in both.

Similar on the DK, if I want to get the best out of Dragon Leap or Obsidian shard I need to invest into Mighty. For everything else there's Elemental Expert.

In fact for PvE you just use Banner on static bosses and Meteor on mobile ones and then all your damage scales with Elemental Expert. Not many classes have that luxury.

It's frustrating because a stam DK can actually use that ultimate to burst down and get a kill whereas with a magicka DK it is just meh.

Yes and no

You see a lot of DKs putting CPs into Thaumaturge (other then Elemental Expert ofc) to increase the damage of:
Proximity Detonation

Batswarm

Dawnbreaker of Smiting

2/3 of those are ultimates. If you decide to replace them with Take Flight + Standard of Might/Meteor, it's probably worth switching from Thaumaturge to Mighty to increase your burst with that.

Since this registers as physical damage it can't get mitigated by CP passives. So you will hit every bit as hard as a stamina build (unless your weapons are nirnhorned instead of sharpened).

Of course I have put points in Thaum as an alternative. But If I am stam, the only CP tree I need is Mighty.

Thaum on a Magicka Templar is outrageously awesome. Thaum on a DK is a headache if I don't have 500 CPs or so.

Exactly. When the templar looks like an efficient well designed class compared to the one you are running, then your class needs serious reevaluation.

I actually re-rolled and leveled a templar during the transition to IC. Magicka templar is really stronk right now. Probably the most we-rounded class atm.

Advantages:
1. Great Healing
2. Good stamina management (repentence)
3. Only one CP required (Thaum)
4. Execute
5. Magicka gap closer
6. Solid range options even w/ melee weapons
7. Solid passives across the board
8. Vampire is nice compliment

Disadvantages
1. Mediocre ults
2. Poor mobility
3. Mediocre CC
4. Mediocre Burst

What's really cool about templar right now is the flexibility. I can spec for magicka AoE burst! (2H/Resto, LA, solar barrage, invis bats, prox det) I can play defensive healer! (HA, Sw/SH) Either case I'm super effective for both group play and small group. And stamina templar is still totally viable considering the strength of stamina skills and armor sets.

Compare this to magicka DK and things start looking ugly.

The more I think about it, the more I believe the only change really needed for Magicka DK is dynamic ultimate.

Templar is indeed the class with the most variety of builds, rarely do you see two templar players with the same basic set-up (though we all do biting jabs

. Contrast this with sorcs, whom 90% are indistinguishable from each other (excepting player skill of course).

I have found a high damage stam opponent is a terrible match-up for templars, particular those in light armor because you have little physical mitigation, your class shield is useless, ZoS took away blinding flashes, and your signature class skill only works Vs. magicka builds. If you are not a better player than your opponent or do not apply intense pressure offensively, this can be a very frustrating match-up. I would be fine with no mobility if I had blinding flashes back.

Ishammael · October 2015

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

I guess I wanted to say since dragon leap scales off physical dmg, is it weapon crit or spell crit chance that adds to its dmg?

I see.

Ultimate damage scales with Weapon Damage + Max Stamina or Spell Damage + Max Magicka. Basically the game passes both sets of stats through the ultimate formula and whatever produces highest damage output is what's being used by the game.

If it uses SD + MM then the crit chance used will be spell crit. If it uses WD+MS the the crit chance used will be weapon crit.

Which is totally frustrating because dragon leap is the only ultimate in the entire game that scales with the mighty CP.

Why is it frustrating? As a stamina DK it will use wpn crit which is what I want and as a magicka it will use spell crit which is also great. I don't see a problem.

As for having to use more than one CP passive to boost all your damage, well that applies to others too.

On my Sorc for example half my DPS is boosted by Elemental Expert (Crushing Shock, Light Attacks, Mage's Fury, Storm Atro, Liquid Lightning) and the other half is boosted by Thaumaturge (Crystal Frags, Velocious Curse, Dawnbreaker). So I have to invest in both.

Similar on the DK, if I want to get the best out of Dragon Leap or Obsidian shard I need to invest into Mighty. For everything else there's Elemental Expert.

In fact for PvE you just use Banner on static bosses and Meteor on mobile ones and then all your damage scales with Elemental Expert. Not many classes have that luxury.

It's frustrating because a stam DK can actually use that ultimate to burst down and get a kill whereas with a magicka DK it is just meh.

Yes and no

You see a lot of DKs putting CPs into Thaumaturge (other then Elemental Expert ofc) to increase the damage of:
Proximity Detonation

Batswarm

Dawnbreaker of Smiting

2/3 of those are ultimates. If you decide to replace them with Take Flight + Standard of Might/Meteor, it's probably worth switching from Thaumaturge to Mighty to increase your burst with that.

Since this registers as physical damage it can't get mitigated by CP passives. So you will hit every bit as hard as a stamina build (unless your weapons are nirnhorned instead of sharpened).

Of course I have put points in Thaum as an alternative. But If I am stam, the only CP tree I need is Mighty.

Thaum on a Magicka Templar is outrageously awesome. Thaum on a DK is a headache if I don't have 500 CPs or so.

Exactly. When the templar looks like an efficient well designed class compared to the one you are running, then your class needs serious reevaluation.

I actually re-rolled and leveled a templar during the transition to IC. Magicka templar is really stronk right now. Probably the most we-rounded class atm.

Advantages:
1. Great Healing
2. Good stamina management (repentence)
3. Only one CP required (Thaum)
4. Execute
5. Magicka gap closer
6. Solid range options even w/ melee weapons
7. Solid passives across the board
8. Vampire is nice compliment

Disadvantages
1. Mediocre ults
2. Poor mobility
3. Mediocre CC
4. Mediocre Burst

What's really cool about templar right now is the flexibility. I can spec for magicka AoE burst! (2H/Resto, LA, solar barrage, invis bats, prox det) I can play defensive healer! (HA, Sw/SH) Either case I'm super effective for both group play and small group. And stamina templar is still totally viable considering the strength of stamina skills and armor sets.

Compare this to magicka DK and things start looking ugly.

The more I think about it, the more I believe the only change really needed for Magicka DK is dynamic ultimate.

Templar is indeed the class with the most variety of builds, rarely do you see two templar players with the same basic set-up (though we all do biting jabs . Contrast this with sorcs, whom 90% are indistinguishable from each other (excepting player skill of course).

I have found a high damage stam opponent is a terrible match-up for templars, particular those in light armor because you have little physical mitigation, your class shield is useless, ZoS took away blinding flashes, and your signature class skill only works Vs. magicka builds. If you are not a better player than your opponent or do not apply intense pressure offensively, this can be a very frustrating match-up. I would be fine with no mobility if I had blinding flashes back.

Agreed. Stam NB and DK are really tough matchups.

Tankqull · October 2015

Ishammael wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

1Grumpy_dunmer1 wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm gonna go ahead and assume you guys are running drinks instead of food. Because with these kagrenac and elf bane heavy sets you are all using, I can't for the life of me see how you have enough sustain even with pots and battle roar.

Have you tried going 5 x Seducer / Willow's Path, 4 x Magnus, 3 x Willpower and food instead of drinks?

- Damage-wise you should be definitely better off (5k max magicka from food always better than 230-250 spell damage from kag or elf bane)
- Magicka sustain should also be better (>2k magicka regen before pots with Attro Mundus and 2xCost redux + 1 Regen enchants)

I understand stamina sustain is where you might struggle with this build ....though with block stopping regen anyway I would have thought stam regen is not a Alpha as it was in 1.6? Also with food you will get more stam out of Helping Hands and generally more stats out of battle roar.

I'm forming all of the above as a question because I'm not so up to date with my magicka DK.

This is what they should be doing -- much more efficient setup. Willows Path is so good its crazy. Even in Heavy. Atro mundus + 1 regen glyph + ~40 CPs in mag regen should put you right at 1.7-1.8k mag regen in 5H. Cost redux isn't worth it b/c it scales down in effectiveness with increasing CPs. Same w/ Seducer.

Here's the rub: the damage is really, really bad compared to what a Sorc and NB can put out. Being pigeon-holed into resto staff for a heal really hurts. In fact, the 5H DK magicka setup cannot beat any competent magicka Sorc -- Leading many down the path to full spell damage AND food (forgetting sustain). For example: 5 kag, 4 elf, 3 will + food. Sure, you're gonna be draining pots like crazy, but at least your hits will make people pay attention. Fossilize + meteor --> whip is the combo.

I can barely get through a sorc shield before I'm forced to spend all my resources on healing due to them having much more dps than dk. A high damage magicka skill for dk could probably balance that but who knows.. That's just the good sorts though some are easy kills.

It's not even that. Your problem going against a decent Sorc is that you're going against Harness Magicka on a 35k-40k max magicka build with 100 CPs in Bastion. That's a 7k Shield for me on the low end of the magicka spectrum (35k). It means i can put it up and it will take ~3 whips from you to burn through it. In that time it's returned double it's cost to me and gave me time to unload my burst.

The Harness Magicka + Hardened Ward stack is OP as feck against magicka builds. A half-decent sorc that simply goes into shield spam cannot be killed by another magicka build. Which is why as a sorc I kept saying a) make Heal Ward a direct heal á la BoL b) remove shield-stacking. Instead of that BS shield-breaker set which tilt's the balance towards stamina even more (they only had to burn through 1 shield to begin with and they have higher damage).

Anyway, sorry for digressing. I just think the problem you are describing is not a specific DK problem, but more of a generic problem against Sorcs with 2 shields.

You are probably the first Sorc that is willing to admit this. Harness is really, really good. Coupled with Hardened? Stupid OP. Now add in that CPs make attacking Sorc stamina non-viable and the whole balance in out of whack. Shield stacking needs to go.

I feel more survivable on my DK running Harness + Heal Ward than in heavy or blocking. Which is absurd.

i do not know one sorc not admitting that harness+hardend vs another magicka user using atleast 2 shields as well is bullsh..
the problem is stamina user are claiming the same witch is BS as well

on topic mine uses:
5x kargenacs
3x will
3xarch-mage
+molag kena

1Grumpy_dunmer1 · October 2015

Anyone know of a viable build using bloods pawn or is that set no longer really viable for pvp? Would it go better with stam dk and dragon leap? I may make a switch to stamina for now this solo play is really tough with ought a way of doing good damage.

Jjitsuboy98 · October 2015

I wonder what build Skaffa runs. He uses Magicka DK and seems pretty powerful when I see him PVPing. Im about to give up on Magicka DK and DK in general. Just not enough damage. I changed to heavy armor to have survivability and it just ruined my Damage. Light armor cant 1v1 that well to squishy. No burst or mobility. Sad times.

RoamingRiverElk · October 2015

[never mind

]

RoamingRiverElk · October 2015

The problem with magicka DKs in small group PvP or solo PvP is that they absolutely need *everything*... Magicka regen. Stamina regen. Cheaper ultimates. Max magicka (for damage), max health (because the class shield is weak, so need some buffer so that one doesn't instantly die if one loses a bit of health, dragon blood also scales from max health), max stamina for defense (and for the 5% passive). Resistances because you can't block much at all, nor roll dodge, and you can't hide nor escape (personally I don't do heavy armor because it's just too bad for my resource management (just one piece for the undaunted bonus)). Well, you can try with invisibats if you have the ultimate up, or mistform (which was nerfed so it's easier to target now)... besides... without a group there, mistform really would usually just prolong the fight a bit since you can't do anything except move while in it, and magicka regen stops.

So then there's the cheap-ish class ultimate which isn't really that effective damage-wise... It's more just a respite from damage for a couple of seconds and gives you resources back. Or standard, which costs way too much in normal fights because you need resources back sooner.

So as magicka DK, you will pretty much always end up lacking something, because you need to have everything. Or you can be a truly mediocre, good at nothing, thing, that doesn't kill any enemies and can barely survive...

Stoney_McGeee · October 2015

Im almost done with making my video collage, all this Magic Dk is dead stuff is getting old..

As far as needing everything, thats somewhat true, but at the same time i disagree, i rarely use stam unless I'm breaking free, or rolling..

killing enemies? running solo? Dks can still do that.. i killed 5 guys solo yesterday and day before yesterday, I'm constantly trying out new skills and trying different combos, and researching different builds people use.. don't let them fool you, DKs aren't completely dead.

KostasDragonborn · October 2015

Stoney_McGeee wrote: »

Im almost done with making my video collage, all this Magic Dk is dead stuff is getting old..

As far as needing everything, thats somewhat true, but at the same time i disagree, i rarely use stam unless I'm breaking free, or rolling..

killing enemies? running solo? Dks can still do that.. i killed 5 guys solo yesterday and day before yesterday, I'm constantly trying out new skills and trying different combos, and researching different builds people use.. don't let them fool you, DKs aren't completely dead.

a Magicka DK build video would be nice!