I don't understand why anyone wants this, especially now with the Champion System having proven to be an additional system that does not replace VR, but simply adds imbalance.

Would they also want your levels 2-50 removed?

This really doesn't make any sense. The game is an RPG, where you gain power over time. Levels are just a way to break that into chunks.

The Veteran Ranks are just more levels with a different name. Why in hell does anyone want their levels removed from their characters in an RPG?

I really think the ESO community is guilty of not knowing what we want...

Gidorick wrote: »

I really think the ESO community is guilty of not knowing what we want...

Yeah kinda. In many cases players want different things, there will always be a split in the community when something has changed. To be honest, it's about the Developers on this part to discern from the feedback if they should or should not do something.

Every change that has happened until now would have been done so realising that they are removing these ranks. So while a lot of these changes may have not made sense to us(including adding more ranks), perhaps with this removal in mind, changes will make more sense once the Ranks are gone. At least that's how I see it, trying to see it from a developers point of view lol.

We'll never fully know why they do things that seem odd initially, because we're not aware of all the things they have planned for the future and how they'll work.

They're never removing VR ranks. The sooner you accept it, the better.

Enraged_Tiki_Torch wrote: »

When it comes to CP tiers, it would be like 0-100 would be tier 1, 101-200 would be tier 2, and so on. Then possibly have it so players would instance with other players in the same tier as them.

That's a very bad idea, because from the moment somebody has 1 point more into the next tier compared to a group member they would be in another instance. Imagine someone earning that 1 CP into the next tier and disappearing in front of you while running a gold pledge.

Slurg wrote: »

After everyone who hates VR leveling has already ragequit, and the rest of us forget why they were planning to remove them to begin with, why would they need to bother with removing them at all?

Currently they are just extra levels on top of 1-50 with a fancy name (new level, skill point and new gear to craft/get, no more, no less), and the player can choose from numerous places to go to gain them.

I feel like anyone still wanting them gone must be smoking crack or something, or is holding onto what they used to think, or what they heard from someone else.

I gain VR ranks faster than I even want to currently. They are no longer time consuming to gain. I don't try to level or grind and I get one every 2 days. I play not even every night.

This senseless desire to remove our levels just because they used to be difficult to gain or something needs to go away. VR ranks are completely eclipsed by CPs as an imbalance source, and CP cap is coming soon.

VR ranks are FINE.

The Uninvited wrote: »

Enraged_Tiki_Torch wrote: »

Then possibly have it so players would instance with other players in the same tier as them.

That's a very bad idea, because from the moment somebody has 1 point more into the next tier compared to a group member they would be in another instance. Imagine someone earning that 1 CP into the next tier and disappearing in front of you while running a gold pledge.

LOL. Yeah, probably how it would bug out for the first week too. But what I am saying already exists, as example storyline quests and just how your client prioritizes what other players to draw or not to draw. Obviously a dungeon is an instance of itself but in Open World, it would make sense to put people of the same CP level together. Such as something like a Dolmen or World Boss. Actually wish they did that now, kinda sucks when your fighting a Dolmen or World Boss at low level and some V16 jumps in and ruins your experience. But whatever...

Why even remove vet ranks if the grind and the disparity is the same, or in your chart, even more?

Screw that.

Only casual non vet players want it removed. Nothing wrong with vet levels just leave it alone FFS

I don't see any real issue with mats, skills, or attributes post vet system. They will be redistributed within whatever is the new ranking system. I don't think CPs will come into play with this. Can you imagine the uproar if everyone currently able to craft top-tier mats but with few CP was suddenly no longer able to craft with those mats?

The biggest obstacle I see is how XP is handled. There is a huge difference between vet and non-vet when it comes to XP. Before level 50, the 5-level rule exists. Within VR ranks, XP is scaled, but present whether the content is VR1 or VR16. If VR is removed, will the 5-level rule for XP be eliminated? Or would they have totally different XP rules from level 50 and up? Without VR ranks, when does CP experience begin? What about loot drops? The 5-level rule also applies to loot. I imagine there would be riots if new restrictions were placed on loot. It also doesn't really make sense to have different rules for XP and CP without VR ranks to justify the difference.

The more I look at this, the more I realize the ZOS team made a mess, and they seem not to have a clue how to fix it.

The Uninvited wrote: »

Still a bad idea. I don't know how many times I helped out a friend or guild member with a dolmen or world boss, but in this case it would be something like:

- Can you help me out with this world boss/dolmen over here?
- Don't know, what tier are you in?
- I'm at tier 200, you?
- Tier 300. Sorry dude, can't help you.
- Anyone else?
- Repeat to infinity.

Same would go for dungeons. I usually run veteran pledges with the same group, I have just over 300 CP now, but one of our group members has over 400. That would mean we couldn't group up anymore.

The only place this "works" is Cyrodill, because all dolmens/delves there are max level and everyone is batlle levelled.

And V16's doing a dolmen way below their level are only there because of completion but more likely because they want the "Daedric Lord Slayer" title.

That isn't what I am saying. For group dungeons it would work just like it does now with Veteran rank scaling. If the group leader had 300 CP and everyone else had 400, you can still group with them. It's just that the dungeon would scale to the tier the group leader was in (300 CP scaled). Just like how v16 players give leader to a low level vet player to scale the dungeon down, but they still are grouped together in the same instance. While running a pledge, a V15 who in the middle of run levels to V16 doesn't phrase out or change anything in the dungeon so neither would CP tiers.

As for open world, what I am saying is already in the game as many areas already have different instances based on certain factors, mostly determined by whether you completely the regional questline. The whole game is littered with this mini-instance mechanic. It would be hilarious if it wasn't already in the game. Imagine going into a town that was being overrun by Deadra but you completed the quest so all the Deadra are gone, now someone entered that hasn't completed the quest. You would be watching them fight invisible enemies. ROFL.

The same thing can be done for Dolmen's and World Bosses in Open World. An instance could be created not based on whether a quest was completed but scaled based on the what CP tier the player that entered the region was in. However, Zenimax likely has far more important thing to address and work on. I am just saying it would be cool is these events also scaled but it's really just a personal wishlist and not something I would expect in the future.

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

The intention of this thread is to "theorycraft" as to what will change and how, when this removal takes place. This isn't about if a player wants them to stay or not. So please do your best to avoid posting your opinion based on if you want them removed or not, thanks!

This thought has been in the back of my mind since threads started popping up about Monster Trophies being almost impossible to obtain because you've reached a certain level and also threads about Craglorn Trials becoming inferior due to the level cap being raised. These issues all have good points, but the thing being forgotten the most is that they are working on the removal of the Veteran Ranks, which may or may not effect these issues. However we don't actually know much about this removal, apart from that it's going to happen.

What I haven't seen discussed is: "How will the Veteran Rank removal effect the game and what will have changed?" I'll break this down into a few smaller questions below to get you thinking.

With the removal of the Veteran Ranks...

• What will become of the Skill Points and Attribute Points we gained?
• What level will the VR crafting materials be adjusted to and how will this effect the level 50 and below materials?
• What will become of the costumes we unlocked and how will they be unlocked in future?
• What will the level of VR zones be adjusted to and how will this effect content within those zones? E.g. Craglorn Trials.

These are just a few of the questions I have and I'm sure you can all think of more. When it comes to some questions, many might think along the lines of "Everything will be level 50". In terms of zone levels that may be the case, but I'm unsure if this can be the case for crafted items and materials because there would be an excess of raw materials such as potency runes, ores, hides etc. and they can't just remove them because we all currently use them. So I'm curious to know what they'll be doing with all this "VR junk" lol.

If we can get any information on this topic from the Development or Community team, that'd be appreciated!

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno

Edit: Another thing that I've thought about that I forgot to mention is that the change might literally be converting everything from Veteran Ranks 1~16 to Levels 51~65. For a while now I've felt that this is what is going to happen, but who knows! (We know, who knows!)

is it too late to refer back to this....
http://dulfy.net/2014/07/12/eso-paul-sage-the-road-ahead-qa-transcript/

VR Rank Overhaul

Our hope for the VR system initially is that it would gate items so you would always have this item progression to chase up. Behind the scenes we also had seasons idea where you VR ranks would be wiped and you would start fresh at a new season. That whole system just didn’t have enough moment to moment rewards. There is nothing that is a predictable reward to chase after.
For some people there is a level of challenge they really enjoy but there is also a large number of people who don’t like the challenges. The ramp up in difficulty between 1-50 and the VR hits you really hard. We have a lot of difficult things in the game like the trials already. We want players to still have fun when you reach the VR zones.
In the first phase of VR rank overhaul, we lowered the difficulty of the VR zones to make the difficulty more consistent. For those players who are after challenges we will have something for them later.
Lack of constant rewards make the VR system grindy.
In phase 2, which arrive with Update 4 most likely. We will remove the Veteran Points system and have normal experience gains direct the growth of the Veteran System. Also, we’ll increase the amount of XP granted in PvP but we will add some measures to prevent farming.
Different Cyrodiil campaign for those below 50 and those in the VR ranks in the future.
When we take away VR points, we will not take away VR ranks so that won’t affect itemization and the gear you can wear.


Champion System (VR Overhaul Phase 3)

This will replace the Veteran system. This is a system where you are constantly adding points (Champion Points) into passives that will make your character stronger – i.e. critical hit or spell defense. You will add % that will increase these rating. It is a bit like the alternative advancement system (AA) in other games (i..e EQ1, EQ2)
It will be account wide so once you open up the Champion rank you will be able to take these points and apply to other characters. The points you put in one character won’t affect your other characters and there is a built in respec that will be fairly straightforward and easy to get.
Put in an hour and you will get one of those points for example. Experience past 50 are converted into champion points.
Any alts you make will be affected by the champion points already earned on your account. You just cannot earn champion points until you are level 50.
Enlightenment bonus – it is like rested experience so the longer you log off the more bonus you get.
In the Champion system, we will have more gear introduced by seasons where there is no level requirement. They will be harder to get. Season 8 gear will be more powerful than season 7 gear for example but the season 7 gear will be more readily available. There will be a solution for crafting as well.
Champion rating – Look at your gear as well as all your points in the champion system to see if you can take on a certain content or not. The Champion rating will be introducing some divide in the community but it based more on gear rather than your points to make it easier to catch up.
New itemization coming out as well in update 4– New sets coming out, populate bosses with different set pieces.

Alright i think this would be an ok idea: As much as i hate mmo copying i think wow has it right. You have a level cap lets say they make it 70 for example. You have vet dungeons which drop great gear you can get more powerful with. Once you gear the hell up with vet dungeons, Youll be ready for trials, Trials will be a much higher gear level rewarded so gearing will be something to want. The dlc will have increased item powers. The dlc dungeons will have better gear then the normal vet dungeons. The dlc trials will have better gear then the normal trials. And every long while there can be an EXPANSION that raises level cap and adds new content. The only problem is the old content should still have meaning and not become obsolete, Maybe with a scaling system or MAYBE those old dungeons will drop a currency that you can use to buy the expansions higher level gear, Or maybe old dungeons will still have the cool gear that you can transmog or something, but that choice i dont like as much. Old dungeons and trials getting 70 versions with even gear level with the new dungeon content would be great. Honestly its going to be hard for them to get this right (the removal of vet ranks) but i have hope they will do something good and get the "alchemy" of this process right. Feel free to reply to this. I want to see what you guys think about this.

.

F7sus4 wrote: »

Riko_Futatabi wrote: »

With the removal of the Veteran Ranks...

• What will become of the Skill Points and Attribute Points we gained?
• What level will the VR crafting materials be adjusted to and how will this effect the level 50 and below materials?
• What will become of the costumes we unlocked and how will they be unlocked in future?
• What will the level of VR zones be adjusted to and how will this effect content within those zones? E.g. Craglorn Trials.

I asked the exact same questions at the forums, like, 8 months ago. The conclusion that came from the discussion was that VR removal is utterly pointless and would break/flatten the game even more.

If we are all 50 and VR is removed ....it's removed...nothing to be broken if it's all gone
Vet zones are just level 50 and Craglorn could drop 50 gear with more affixes
Costumes would stay unlocked and if not unlocked...poof gone
Crafting would just simply move to mats creating gear vs a lvl requirement. Want X style with X mats...use more or less and keep it moving