NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

So let's try this....
Hypothetically speaking....if this is added to consoles, what specific button presses and functionality would each console prefer to open up to type, reply to a whisper, switch channels, switch to guild chat, switch to say and switch to party chat?
Also how would linking and clicking a text sentence with links work?

Trying to change the tone of the thread and let's talk about preferences so if this were added it's done in a way those who want it, prefer to have it vs what ZOS may come up with

*Please don't just reply saying like it is on PC...instead be very specific


Example:
Console - Xbox one
-Say =
- group/party =
- proximity =
- Guild =
- clicking text links=

Open chat window - enter
Reply - /r
Guild channels- /g1-5 for guilds 1-5
Say - /s
Party - /p

To link an item in text chat highlight the item then press triangle for options - "link to text"
To click on a link in text chat - open up text chat, scroll up to the link, press alt+o to open link. ( there are probably better and more efficient ideas for this one)

[

robkrush wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Using Warframe as reference you open the options menu (already an assigned button) and then use either trigger to open or close the text box (not asssigned while in the options menu). The bumpers control navigating the text channels (again not assigned), but since we are technically in an entirely new UI all of the buttons are available for new assignment.

If you close the text box in the options menu it will not display when playing the game (PMs just provide a notification). If you leave the text box open when exting the options menu then the overlay becomes transparent and allows you to see the active text chat for the active channel (and receive PMs) but in a much smaller vertcal area (so you would only be able to see the most recent text lines instead of a whole page).

It really is that simple and unintrusive since when you are typing you don't need to move, so opening the options menu as a requirement is an optimal solution. Also, this allows you to close the text window immediately just by pressing the options menu button a second time in case something unexpected happens (no need to manually close the text chat first).

Yep. This sounds good. Good explanation.

I envision a text chat tool that enables us to communicate with the masses. All the proximity, group, and guild stuff remains voice So, a text box that is toggled on for use and closed automatically when done would work fine. That text box could have 3 channels that you switch to with the buttons ontop of the conroller, L1/R1 on the PS4. The channels that would work good woukd be: looking for group, trade, and discussion. All the "/..." Shortcuts are not needed. As MANY others of said. Look at Warframe.

I like what you are saying, but I feel guild channels in text chat is needed. We can be in five guilds which makes it difficult sometime to get a message out to all your guild members at once expecially if they are not in VC. Guild text chat is one of the main reasons I want text chat. It would make it so much easier to organize large events. While a guild may have 50+ members on only about 10-20 are actually in VC.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

So let's try this....
Hypothetically speaking....if this is added to consoles, what specific button presses and functionality would each console prefer to open up to type, reply to a whisper, switch channels, switch to guild chat, switch to say and switch to party chat?
Also how would linking and clicking a text sentence with links work?

Trying to change the tone of the thread and let's talk about preferences so if this were added it's done in a way those who want it, prefer to have it vs what ZOS may come up with

*Please don't just reply saying like it is on PC...instead be very specific

Console - Xbox one

*Around November when the xbox branded chat-pad is released with headset options (no other current headset offers typing and talking simultaneously) I also believe this should be placed within the current social menu so as to allow freedom of other buttons to link, and interact due to no mouse or cursor. It should have the option to pop out and be seen on screen with keypad or keyboard functions. This menu would provide options for re-sizing, moving, text colors, filters, other customization desires and especially hide features.

-Prompts to initiate text chat = chat pad keys or keyboard keys only like Enter (or the two customize-able keys only on the new chat pad)
-Say/Proximity = Enter --> /s
- group/party = Enter --> /p
- -whisper = not available as the gamertag would send this to a xbox msg and in-game and become duplication and annoying
- Zone = N/A this shouldn't be added (fix the other issuing preventing things like group finder from working flawlessly)
- Guild = Enter --> /g1, /g2, /g3, /g4
- clicking text links= within the social menu due to button limitations
- -linking items = within the social menu, using the menu button (options within this new window)

A couple of things to note... first, this isn't a PC so you don't want to prefix everything with a command. Just add a group channel that automatically includes member from your current group, and proximity chat that automatically includes everyone in a specific area/zone. You would simply change between these chat channels using the bumpers. When not viewing a chat log, the text messages are still received, just not displayed so you just switch between them as needed. What you are suggesting is a mirror of a PC system which could work but there are simpler methods available, espececially if the goal is to work efficiently on consoles.

Second, ESO desperately needs a PM or whisper command. You don't want to constantly exit the game and open the console's messenger to check simple messages. As per the previous system, each PM or whisper opens a new private channel that can be viewed at any time in-game. An option to block these messages entirely would also be available or just PMs from a specific user. Having the PM log in-game makes it easier to have a conversation or answer questions even if you don't respond back for a long time. You never want to encourage a player to exit your game.

Third, to avoid clutter you could use triangle or Y button to switch the active guild chat (or PM). Simply select the guild chat tab and then use the appropriate button to open a filter, just like with the guild store, that allows you to switch between guild channels. This would also be used to expand area chat to cover the immediate area, or the entire zone (stop pretending that open communication is a bad thing). Besides, if the group finder works as advertised it would still be faster than sitting in chat spamming LFG as you could still be playing while waiting for an available party. Having zone chat doesn't hurt group finder if it actually works. Besides, zone chat is needed for regular questing, trading, role-playing and many other things than just LFG.

Lastly, there are no button limitations once the text chat box is opened using my system since every button except the options menu and one trigger are available. It literally initites a new UI so all of the buttons are available for assignment. For someone that doesn't want text chat you are far too limited by how it works on a PC to optimize it for a console.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

So let's try this....
Hypothetically speaking....if this is added to consoles, what specific button presses and functionality would each console prefer to open up to type, reply to a whisper, switch channels, switch to guild chat, switch to say and switch to party chat?
Also how would linking and clicking a text sentence with links work?

Trying to change the tone of the thread and let's talk about preferences so if this were added it's done in a way those who want it, prefer to have it vs what ZOS may come up with

*Please don't just reply saying like it is on PC...instead be very specific

Console - Xbox one

*Around November when the xbox branded chat-pad is released with headset options (no other current headset offers typing and talking simultaneously) I also believe this should be placed within the current social menu so as to allow freedom of other buttons to link, and interact due to no mouse or cursor. It should have the option to pop out and be seen on screen with keypad or keyboard functions. This menu would provide options for re-sizing, moving, text colors, filters, other customization desires and especially hide features.

-Prompts to initiate text chat = chat pad keys or keyboard keys only like Enter (or the two customize-able keys only on the new chat pad)
-Say/Proximity = Enter --> /s
- group/party = Enter --> /p
- -whisper = not available as the gamertag would send this to a xbox msg and in-game and become duplication and annoying
- Zone = N/A this shouldn't be added (fix the other issuing preventing things like group finder from working flawlessly)
- Guild = Enter --> /g1, /g2, /g3, /g4
- clicking text links= within the social menu due to button limitations
- -linking items = within the social menu, using the menu button (options within this new window)

A couple of things to note... first, this isn't a PC so you don't want to prefix everything with a command. Just add a group channel that automatically includes member from our current group, and prximity chat that automatically includes everyone in a specific area. You would simply change these chat boxes using bumpers. When not viewing a chat log, the text messages are still received, just not displayed so you just switch between them as needed. What you are suggesting is a mirror of a PC system which could work but there are simpler methods available, espececially if the goal is to work efficiently on consoles.

Second, ESO desperately needs a PM or whisper command. You don't want to constantly exit the game and open the console's messenger to have to check simple messages. As per the previous system, each PM or whisper opens a new private channel that can be viewed at any time in-game. An option to block these messages would also be available or just PMs from a specific user. Having the PM log in-game makes it easier to have a conversation or answer questions even if you don't respond back for a long time.

Third, to avoid clutter you could use triangle or Y to switch the active guild chat (or PM). Simply select the guild chat tab and then use the appropriate button to open a filter, just like with the guild store, that allows you to switch between guild channels. This would also be used to expand area chat to cover the immediate area, or the entire zone (stop pretending that open communication is a bad thing). Besides, if the group finder works as advertised it would still be faster than sitting in chat spamming LFG as you could still be playing while waiting for an available party. Having zone chat doesn't hurt group finder if it actually works. Besides, zone chat is needed for regular questing, trading, role-playing and many other things than just LFG.

Lastly, there are no button limitations once the text chat box is opened using my system since every button except the options menu and one trigger are available. It literally initites a new UI so all previous assigned buttons are available for assignment. For someone that doesn't want text chat you are far too limited by how it works on a PC to optimize it for a console.

^^^^^
+1
10/10
More great ideas and another great explaination. ZOS could really use someone like you to manage their team; with common sense and someone who isn't afraid to tell it how it is. I like that.

Thanks to all the PC players for voting no, but we seriously need this.

I think alot of people against this should go and try other mmo's take on text chat on console.
The chat box buttons/text chat/private messages etc works just fine on any controller.

It is easily coded to disable jump if in x menu or some other box/menu, it's not a programming nightmare.
Like other mmo's they simply can touch, hold or long hold buttons aswell as use them for tapping. Just like you hold up to access radial menus and so on.

No point in trying to make it sound complicated, it's easily implemented and zos already probably have a working version.
The real reason it was took out has never been explained, it's not because of tv text size, or couch gamers, it's certainly not for less clunkiness, otherwise they'd of scrapped quick chat and it's useless nature.

I'd guess it's to cut out the gold sellers, or at least reduce it. The chatbox may cause somesort of perfomance issue, the game is rarely at 30fps, i think alot of text spam might cause it to drop, maybe.

Whatever, it needs a LFG and TRADE channel if nothing else.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

Install Warframe and check out how the text chat works there. I'm sure you will find faults with it so let me know why a similar system would not work for ESO.

EDIT: I'll be honest, your last reply basically means you didn't actually read either of my last two posts. The button assignments are covered in detail in post #2101 and again in the final paragraph of the reply you quoted. Please go back and read my posts as they cover how the text system would be applied and not interfere with any existing aspect of ESO. Even if we disagree about how text chat should work, my post covers how integration would work and be unintrusive.

I have it already on Xbox One...
-the buttons is the issue first of all...less are used in Warframe - https://warframe.com/quick-start-guide#xb1-controls
-the second issue is playing and typing

EDITS: Its' not that I didn't read your posts, its that you disagree with my analysis and criticisms of your ideas
-Your thought process is as if EVERYONE wants what you're suggesting but your ideas lack ways to keep what exists and add options for yourself and other which would not be forced but instead optional. Communication via text chat will be used more than just in idle...so taking away a players ability to grab the controller and play while a message is being typed forces them to utilize their controller in type mode only vs to continue playing. On PC this is what a mouse cursor and clicks allow...which isn't possible on console unless a keyboard is fully supported for play and communication

AND....Here is a video of another users suggestion in adding this type of stuff to ESO which would resolve a lot and this possibility does exist in Warframe - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RmPZz1wEZMo

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

This is not a PC environment we are talking about so using /w, /g, etc. is actually quite painful to do using an in-game or external (cell phone) since the buttons are located in different input panels. Having to do that constantly is just tedious for the sake of not having a better solution. Warframe simplifies this in the best way possible by using tabs. Also, I don't think anyone but you expects to actively play while typing. I mean seriously, explain how you will type while holding a controller. The best solution is to accept that you cannot and make the interface accessible within a second to minimize the downtime. Anyway, I explained how to minimize the chat window (making it optional), how to switch between chat channels using tabs and filters (selected using triangle and Y), so I guess we agree to disagree at this point.

Heiro....

As you say this is not a PC environment which to first say...that reason there is exactly why most of this makes no sense to add to consoles. To be considerate of others ideas...the attempt is to spend time discussing reasonable options and opportunities if it was to be added.

-the slash commands on a keypad are just as simple as slash commands on a keyboard and again...if you read my suggestion its first slated with the inclusion of the incoming xbox chat pad in November. The controller is in the user's hand and its a full keyboard with even function key options not exactly the same as a PC but more appropriate for consoles.

-Warframe doesn't simplify text chat...it takes a player out of game-play to enable and address button limitations for consoles. The game also has a notable lesser amount of button commands than ESO

-Your best solution is possibly very accurate so with what you write....why is adding text chat a good idea at all on consoles if no one can strategically offer options in ways that its truly optional and not forced or limiting?

I've accepted that text chat is not ideal for TESO:TU for consoles....will you?
I've also accepted that many others disagree with my opinion that its not ideal...so I've decided to lay my personal opinions aside and work with those who do want to the feature to come up with possibilities.

What can you offer in this discussion along those lines?

@NewBlacksmurf

I'll stop you right there. You saying that because it isn't a PC enviironment it shouldn't have text chat is just your lack of innovation and adaptation. Could you imagine if cell phones were only for talking since they don't have keyboards and carrying one around was too bothersome? Many thought exactly that way for a long time and it wasn't until someone implemented a hidden keyboard, and later a touch screen with an integrated keyboard that we unlocked such potential in cell phones. You simply cannot be this shortsighted, I cannot believe that you would even say such as thing as a counterpoint to having text chat on consoles.

Also, your solution alienates everyone who does not use the chat pad, which is proprietary. That's not a solution but if ZOS wants to optimize for it then I see no reason why it couldn't work. But to design a system around a device which most players will never have access to is simply not a solution worth having.

No, having to read a private message on the system's home page takes you out of the game. Opening a menu is something I do in ESO constantly. In fact, ESO even has a single button dedicated to making this something that requires no time or effort to manage. Besides, many of us spend a lot of time standing around waiting for things in ESO, having to type would not be immersion breaking compared ot having to open a menu to repair or compare items, switch or morph skills, or manage a group. We use the menus in ESO all of the time so I guess that entire system needs to be redesigned to keep players in-game.

Lastly, text chat is needed, not because it is the perfect solution but because voice chat is an imperfect solution with far too many limitations. It is because of the problems with voice chat that text chat is required, not because text chat is the end-all solution for ESO.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

I'll stop you right there. You saying that because it isn't a PC enviironment it shouldn't have text chat is just your lack of innovation and adaptation. Could you imagine if cell phones were only for talking since they don't have keyboards and carrying one around was too bothersome? Many thought exactly that way for a long time and it wasn't until someone implemented a hidden keyboard, and later a touch screen with an integrated keyboard that we unlocked such potential in cell phones. You simply cannot be this shortsighted, I cannot believe that you would even say such as thing as a counterpoint to having text chat on consoles.

Also, you solution alienates everyone who does not use the chat pad, which is proprietary. That's not a solution but if ZOS wants to optimize for it then I see no reason why it couldn't work. But to design a system around a device which most players will never have access to is simply not a solution worth having.

No, having to read a private message on the home page takes you out of the game. Opening a menu is something I do in ESO constantly. In fact, ESO even has a single button dedicated to making this something that requires no time or effort to manage. Besides, many of us spend a lot of time standing around waiting for things in ESO, having to type would not be immersion breaking compared ot having to open a menu to repair or compare items, switch or morph skills, or manage a group. We use the menus in ESO all of the time so I guess that entire system needs to be redesigned to keep players in-game.

Lastly, text chat is needed, not because it is the perfect solution but because voice chat is an imperfect solution with far too many limitations. It is because of the problems with voice chat that text chat is required, not because text chat is the end-all solution for ESO.

Hiero...

Respectfully,

I'm not saying because it isn't a PC environment that it shouldn't have text chat.
I'm suggesting that it doesn't make sense considering the problematic issues that have been shared, are being discussed and as of yet, no suggestions have been created to allow this as truly an optional feature.

-Your other comments and ideas about innovation...yes I can imagine as I'm old enough to have been an adult without any of those options. I'm a big tech guy and utilize almost all forms today in my job, with marketing, sales and working with national professional companies and organizations.industries. The issue there, each step requires new hardware, software, networks, and collaboration with multiple industries....This isn't that type of conversation or idea and therefore those examples are good for conversation but do not add logic to what we hope to discuss and offer solutions to. Before those hardware and software changes, we did things like talk and call. No email, no texting...as it wasn't efficient and as such that is an argument to this topic...its not efficient for consoles.

-I agree my suggestion does alienate others but no more than any suggestion which offers a customer a requirement to use something other than a controller in order to text chat in any way.

-In retrospect the ZOS suggestion doesn't alienate anyone and truly allows options within a set focus. The additions to radial text chat and possibly fully customization is a realistic option that little to no one in this thread seems keen on. But its an option

-PM....
If you follow my suggestions no one is leaving the game to read anything. The way we interact today is via the social menu which can be brought up a few ways but ideally menu...Y...RB (this is where voice chat options and interactions exist today)

When I get a msg on xbox...i can see it on snap, smartglass, my PC. This isn't a PS4 solve...its for xbox one, sorry but that seems to be a Sony oversight which seems reasonable forr many PS4 only games to have text chat...so ppl dont have to leave the game.

If you add to or wish to enhance communication, all communication needs to happen in the same place...this is the menu being described. This offers continual support for what exists and meshes text chat within the same menu and options so as not to confuse, delay or disrupt what all players are use to today.

"Many stand around today"....careful as that may be how you play but its not how we all play. I am rarely just standing or sitting anywhere but my character may seem to be during managing inventory, grouping tools, msging ppl, crafting, mails, guild or voice chat manipulations but otherwise some are playing.

Immersion breaking...
Its an option...truly just that...if you want it, it pops out and you can use it in its basic form but manipulating it requires the menu....nothing is immersion breaking about this.

Text chat is not needed....
Its desired by some, so at best its a want. A need is something that would be required for something to function. Everything functions as is...just not how some are use to or how they may prefer which defines this as a want and not a need.

Ace_of_Destiny wrote: »

I was born with two kidneys.

I need them both.

Yes, I can survive with just one.

However, when/if that one remaining kidney quits working...I die.

The combination of text and voice works the same way.
The game may survive with only one.
However, when/if that single communications form fails...all communications are gone, and the game is essentially dead.

You're use of the word "need"....your conclusion that a game dies due to the absence of a feature you prefer that isn't "needed" but "wanted"....the reality that millions are playing the game as is....

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Ace_of_Destiny wrote: »

I was born with two kidneys.

I need them both.

Yes, I can survive with just one.

However, when/if that one remaining kidney quits working...I die.

The combination of text and voice works the same way.
The game may survive with only one.
However, when/if that single communications form fails...all communications are gone, and the game is essentially dead.

You're use of the word "need"....your conclusion that a game dies due to the absence of a feature you prefer that isn't "needed" but "wanted"....the reality that millions are playing the game as is....

If the ONLY form of communication in the game goes down, the game is ESSENTIALLY dead until that comms system works again.
In a multi-player game communication is essential.

Which, I thought, my previous post explained quite plainly.

I fear you may just be grasping at straws now, or puposely acting as if you cannot comprehend a simple metaphor.

Please stop arguing with NewBlackSmurf. Seriously, the only reason he is still here is because we are giving him exactly what he wants. Entertainment through debate and argument. This is not one guy standing up to the masses for what he believes in. We are his entertainment. Ignore all his posts and he will go away.